Topic: Here Another Reason Why Bitcoin Is So Important To Humanity (Read 239 times)

Well, I think they also consider the highest possible income and expenses of a Nigerian Citizen and putting that limit has also been observed if that is possible or not. I know the banks have also made their survey before implementing those rules, might be some people will disagree but I think many won't feel it. But for me, the banks should not be doing that but instead, let their clients do whatever they want with their money.

This makes us realize that Bitcoin is better than these banks and fiat money. We can spend Bitcoin without limit, and it is likely we have the freedom to do with our money in a form of Bitcoin which is too far from how these banks are implementing their rules.

An average Nigerian citizen earns less than that ($200) as a monthly salary so for to spend wisely it is hard to squander that amount weekly. Concerning things been cheap in Nigeria, I will agree with you that some stuffs here are cheap majorly because we are the sole producers, example is the Agricultural produce when compared to countries that do not grow this stuffs. But when compared to the minimum wage they receive as salary, it cannot curtail the expenses not to talk of other bills to payed. So in a nutshell what is earned to what is bought doesn't makes this stuff cheap. A bag of Rice is ₦50,000 which is above what people earn, so you could see its still hard living off with the little earned.

^ They should give incentives for using CBDC, I think more will try it at least.

Nigeria has cheaper products than other countries have.  They can live decently with $200 a week. Although it's enough, it's still a limitation and can be inconvenient to someone who wants to transact huge amounts in cash for businesses.  All countries have restrictions on withdrawals of money but this I guess is where they know who in the society is richer and they can come up with statistics.  

Still lucky with my country not change or limit withdrawing money use ATM or directly trough the Bank but faced difficulty some time when withdrawing huge amount many bank make us in difficult position and take longer time. I am sad heard about regulation withdrawing from central Bank of Nigeria were unacceptable limit withdrawing and crazy with 5% fees directly with the bank.

Here need with Bitcoin present can help every one want withdraw their money without unlimited and lower fees transaction, I heard with Nigerian government want to adopt Bitcoin taxes transaction and become huge amount taking from taxes.

It's hilarious! It reminds me of India's demonetization drive back in 2016. A central bank can take such drastic measures to control multiple things including inflation. It can be a very effective tool against inflation which will control the spending habits of their citizens by not allowing extra funds in their hands. But if it's solely done for promoting CBDC, then it's a hilarious act and probably short-sighted.

The use of CBDC will require some form of internet connectivity and a smartphone I believe. For a country like Nigeria, I don't think it's a super regular tool for all segments of its population. The government should have taken steps to improve the livelihood of their citizens first, rather than chasing the west to compete with their innovations.

As a Nigerian, I wish I can tell you that is a 2hours 40 minutes of labour or multiple coffees but it is worse. This is what some Nigerians receive as salary for one month. Added to that, some employees are not even paid when they are supposed to.

i am a bitcoiner from the UK so i understand privilege of my lifestyle but i can also see things outside of my lifestyle

bitcoins fee for a UK/USA person only feels like a cheap home made coffee or 15 minutes of UK/US minimum wage.. but for a nigerian its 2hours 40 minutes of labour or multiple coffees

Same here in my country, the daily withdrawal amount from the bank is set at less than $200 and a withdrawal fee is charged, governments have the same line of thinking in many countries.

Bitcoin is a good solution on an individual level if you want to keep the value of your money safe in the long run, but it is not a practical solution at the level of daily transactions, especially in countries that ban cryptocurrencies.

Even in countries that do not ban bitcoin, you are forced to make these transfers from bitcoin to fiat via ATMs or bank transfers and pay high fees.
The main problem is the existence of this current banking system, unless this system is abandoned and Bitcoin is officially adopted by the government, this problem will remain.

I'm not from there but surely that's hectic and hassle if that happened where I am right now. There's something being cooked by the bank and the government there and that's why they're very strict with their policy towards withdrawals and transfers.
Do they have the same policies for the foreigner theres? If so, that's going to put a hold to their finances and mostly, cash is going to be limited that might forced people to look for other ways to transact freely without limitations and that much free and yeah, bitcoin's one of it.

The government of Nigeria is doing what seems best to it and the economy. The Central Bank is in bed with the president who is almost clueless as to how the cashless economy should work. No Nigerian will use or turn to the eNaira for transactions. It is already a dead project. Likewise it will also be difficult for any Nigerian business to turn to Bitcoin for transactions because the government still has restrictions on crypto transactions and will not fail to block any business account involved. The only way I see bitcoin helping her is among friends who do not need to hold cash but want to carry out a quick transactions amongst themselves.

lets try and explain fiat in terms of bitcoin speak

imagine someone has a UTXO of 0.292btc
they deposit that into an exchange
the exchange sends the UTXO to a block miner that completely destroys 0.292btc completely out of circulation..

the bank credits a user with btc:wbtc 1:1
and limits a customer from converting wbtc into BTC to a rate of 0.03btc a day

when the exchange hot wallet is deprived of BTC for withdrawals its sends 0.03wbtc to the bitcoin miners exchange account. and the bitcoin miner mines a block with 0.03coinbase reward destined for the banks address.

enjoy playing out that supply theory in your head

Policies to carry out restrictions like this will certainly not be good for those business people. Of course businesses will cross this limit and have to pay a service fee of 5% on each withdrawal, this will reduce their profits and as a result the goods sold will increase to cover the service fee. 5% is a large amount.

and for co-ops and corporations the 10%, restrictions and insane service fees that weigh on everyone.
When the government can't fully control bitcoin, then they will regulate the output of the bitcoin, people convert to Fiat and Fiat they regulate with restrictions and service fees.

Bitcoin is the best choice for freedom without burdening anyone, but Bitcoin is widely opposed and not accepted as a solution to problems like this. this is because bitcoin is decentralized.

not so quick.
banks are commercial(businesses) and have supervisers(regulators) who are not politicians but ex bankers promoted to that role

regulators and banks lobby governments for rules and changes to rules(come to an agreement)

now heres basics of the cash flow game

when depositing cash into a bank. the bank sends it to government mint to be burned for free. the bank adds a digital number to its bank database of customers. but has to purchase/have on hand [balance 9:1 cash] which it has to purchase that cash at full cash face value from the government mint

when a bank customer withdraws. the bank gives the customer yesterdays delivery of cash and transfers the customers bank withdrawal balance amount to the government mint to buy cash for todays delivery to refill ATMs for tomorrow

reducing the withdrawal limit means banks have to buy less cash compared to overall bank balance from the government mint

Banks are centralized and controlled by governments. When governments corrupted or collapsed, it is hard to see banks can exist well and without damages. As bank users, we are the very last ending components in their chain and at the end, customers bear most of loses if a bank goes bankruptcy.

Last but not least, nowadays we can not use Bitcoin for everything in life, every where so we still need fiat currencies and banks. We only should not store all of our capital in bank accounts, not in a single bank or multiple banks.

90% in Bitcoin and 10% or 20% in fiat currency is a good allocation for me.

this is les about average nigerian with less than 3weeks minumum wage cash demand per day..

this is about 2 things
1. stopping the rich from easily doing large suitcase bank runs for free
2. lessening the ATM withdrawal means commercial banks dont need to hold as much reserves of cash bank notes to offset against as much daily withdrawal demand

EG
in the US average savings account is $4500
average ATM limit is $500

meaning banks have to have a 9:1 ratio of balance to paper (11% paper reserve)

by (imagine) cutting ATM limit in half banks need to only hold half as much cash paper reserve to meet withdrawal demands (5.5% paper reserve)

issue becomes..
impacts of (2) can actually cause economic fear of a bank run that actually causes a bank run

---

for fun lets translate this to bitcoin speak of a prospective of a UK/eu/US exchange customer

imagine a bitcoin exchange/custodian average balance per users was 0.262btc each
last month they had a withdrawal policy of free withdrawals from their hotwallet limited to 0.06 a day. but this month exchange hot wallet withdrawals are limited to 0.03.. then charging 5%-10% for amounts above 0.03

how would you react to that exchange

One of the best option you have is to limit cash withdrawals. The Nigerian economy have been cash oriented which doesn't suit the current global financial standard that is why the government is pursuing a cashless project. The Central Bank of Nigeria currently spent so much money to redesign the naira and they want to make policies that will make the notes durable and not easy to use for crimes like ransom payments, corruption and money laundering.

But this policy would have an initial negative impact on mostly small businesses. Lagos, Nigeria alone has about 20 million hawkers, carrying their goods mostly on their heads and selling them around the streets. Most of these traders have no bank accounts, so they cannot accept transfers. They would have no option now than to open bank accounts. 31% of Nigerians are not educated and might not have the necessary skills to carryout any online bank transactions. Which means that they would be forced to learn or become part of the unbanked population. The government must also ensure that online transactions issues such as arbitral bank charges, service and internet challenges are handled.

For me, I don't think my daily expenses exceeds the $45 per day benchmark except if there are emergencies. And some small businesses accepts transfers or use PoS for payments. My only challenge is that most times bank online channels are either not available or slow. Sometimes you might have to wait for days before a transfers would reflect on the receivers account.   

just so people are aware

N100,000 is $225 not 135 as topic post suggests
where by a MONTHS minimum wage is just n30,000 =$67 a month

ATMS allow $45 a day and $225 total a week
which is representational of

[3 weeks min wage] a day ATM use and [>3 months min wage] ATM withdrawal amount a week
..
these rules dont stop normal nigerians from withdrawing their daily living costs.. its to stop the rich doing a big cash in suitcase bank run. by charging the rich a fee should they want to escape the bank

..
meanwhile bitcoin has no financial transfer amount limit (big benefit for all)
but does have a fee not linked to a % of spend(penalty for the small spender)

i am a bitcoiner from the UK so i understand privilege of my lifestyle but i can also see things outside of my lifestyle

so being fair
n30,000 one month min wage
(5 day week*4week)
n1,500 one day min wage
n500 third day min wage

a bitcoin average tx fee(today of $1.14 average) is n505 which is a third of a work days labour
2hours 40minutes of labour

Ain't know how Bitcoin will solve this problem when you're a business, which seems a bank account is very important when you have a business.
Though Bitcoin is really helpful to alternate fiat, it doesn't you can rely on it, the government will always ask about your taxation which is IRS recommends having a bank account to make it easier to keep records.  AFAIK, every bank has different fee structures and features such as business and personal have different limitations which as business accounts typically have higher fees and minimum balance requirements.

My advice is always to separate your personal bank account from your business account.

It might you can keep some of your assets in Bitcoin and that would the case can help Bitcoin us but if your main purpose is to use Bitcoin and replace it with fiat, there's nothing you can do. 

I really don't understand why people in a position create rules that is out of this world.  I am in a developing country but I am grateful that my government is not as narrow-minded as the government of Nigeria in allowing banks to oppress its users by limiting their withdrawal.  That is their clients' money.  I am sure after this thing, there are fewer people in Nigeria saving their money in those banks.  

But I don't know how can Bitcoin help in this category, yes we can transfer Bitcoin freely but what about Bitcoin that is converted to cash?  Isn't it charged with that 5% fee?  You know aside from P2P, we cannot convert Bitcoin into cash without undergoing bank transfers.  I am sure once you convert your BTC to cash for payment option, it will be charged the same fee as fiat currency transfers.

Not a nigerian, but how come it is a development? It seems more of a hyperinflation on my point of view. Well good for you if you have assets in Bitcoin or this industry in general but I think any problem was solved given that you only manage to make transaction "privately" through this block chain but since what you've mentioned is country related problem, this is only applicable if cryptocurrency is widely accepted in a country and fortunately, Nigeria is one of the major global user of cryprocurrency but what if same thing happened but in different country? A country wherein cryptos are not widely accepted. Will the same 'strategy' work? 'coz if that's the case you'd be only allowed to make use of your crypto money outside that country.

How then will Bitcoin save people in this situation? They are few merchants that will accept Bitcoin in exchange for cash in Nigeria. Many peer to peer exchange will definitely send the Fiat to your bank account. Do you think of any alternative to changing Bitcoin to Fiat that will bypass the banking rule?

The central Bank of Nigeria has limited cash withdrawal from banks and ATMs to #100,000 ~ $135(at the time of writing this post) per week for each and every citizen of the country.
And have limited cash withdrawals for cooperations/enterprise in the country to #500,000 ~ $672(at the time of writing this post) per week.

Withdrawing any amount above those limit they said will attract a 5% fee for individuals and 10% fee for cooperations/enterprise.

Withdrawing from point of sale(POS) service have also been limited to a mere #20,000 ~ $27(at the time of writing this post) on a daily basis.

The restrictions are said to be compounded for each withdrawal, so for example, someone who withdraws $27 dollars from an ATM on the same day and then tries to withdraw money from a bank will be charged a 5% service fee.

And of course alot of people in the country did not welcome this development and many are speculating that this is the government's strategy/move to enforce the use of the country's central bank digital currency(CBDC) which was launched some time last year but up until now, less than 0.5% of the citizens are using it or have used it, I don't know how true this speculation is, but the fact remains that this is a breach to the freedom citizens have over their hard earned money that they decided to save in the bank, and it's not good, how can a serious business/cooperation be limited to having access to just #500,000 of their money in a whole week?

Fortunately for me, I have 5 Nigerian bank accounts but I don't have a dime in any of them  , 70% of my entire savings in tired up in bitcoin and some other crypto currencies, 28% is tired up in my business while the remaining 2% is in my pocket for my daily expenditures.

What is your take on this development?
Are you a Nigerian or a business Man, did this development affect you or your business in any way?