Topic: High transaction fees affects buyers and seller in payment in bitcoin (Read 431 times)

It’s not a safe a way but using an exchange Bitcoin wallet address to directly receive Bitcoin and convert it to fiat or other coin with low transaction is my other solution if I will have business that accepts Bitcoin. This way I will not be affected on the high fee since there’s no need for me to transfer it just to conveet it to fiat.

The other way is to use LN Bitcoin but this is not convenient since not all user knew how LN works. Bitcoin fee is now back to 3$ range, this is still high but this much better than last month fee.

I guess you were busy enjoying the Christmas holidays when the "well constructive and structured answer" was given. If you feel the best answer as you call it was given why not close the thread?
Before you start bossing around just know that these whole fee came back to normal few days back and is so bad that you weren't following to know what's going on in your thread.
From all observation it has gotten back to normal but we shouldn't be 100% satisfied yet until it continues to be the way we use to have it, let's say for a week then we're good to go, not when we're all happy and feeling good about it then we start seeing another high fee again but higher than before, we should just be hoping it stays that way.

Yes, moving to another cryptocurrency payment option is not a bad business idea. Since transaction should not seem to occur. There must be a means for making payment if the hike of bitcoin fees does not seem to subside. USDT, ETH and TRX have been a common alternative in making payment for business that accept cryptocurrencies. Although Bitcoin have been the most trustworthy and one people believe in. Why they use the alternative they still keep their eyes on Bitcoin to know when the fees will go down, so that they can go back to using it.

Indeed, it was a speculation because currently fees are a bit normal now. And confirmations do not take long anymore. This made me to conclude it was because of the festive and celebration period that made the fees high. Now it is over Bitcoin transactions fees are returning to normal. Am glad i didn't take a long time so we can now send and receive payment without time delay.s

Don't make it sound like it is a characteristic of the Bitcoin network. High transaction fess happens occasionally and unexpected but not regularly thing. Yes, it has affected businesses and cryptocurrency projects but now we have seen the end of it. I pray it doesn't come up again. Although we cannot predict if it will occur again or not. If it does, am glad we have alternatives and so businesses have a solution.

Buddy, i hope you have seen a response that have given a well constructive and structured answer to what you want to find out in this thread. ?

Transaction fees are normal now, and lots of speculations here said it was because of the Christmas and New Year season that has caused the hike, However, i dont totally believe them but they have a valid point. So from your own observations what do you think was the cause?

This is why I always suggest put 1 years worth of costs and double it and then start a business. All the rent, items, salaries, whatever you need to buy, get them all and you should be able to do better in the end. The best thing to do is to make sure that you have some cash on the side to face anything that may happen.

If we were to apply this to bitcoin right now, I can say that the best thing we could do would be having some bitcoin aside for just transaction fee purposes as well, it would allow you to make some good returns, it will definitely be a good way to make money. I know that it is going to be tough, but we need to be doing it as clearly as we could possibly do, otherwise it is going to be a lot worse on the long run if we are not ready for even higher fees.

It is very difficult to use the cash from our wallets to make any Transaction , because yes, it has affected me a lot, I live in a country where it is Somewhat difficult to change some Bitcoin, it is more than 20usd in bitcoin that has to be paid, and as an immigrant it is very difficult for me to do something like that, because what I can think is that things can always be focused on doing something Better , for Example when I am at Work and I need to buy Something Online it is the only way, and it gives me I'm afraid of using my credit card to eat Bitcoin and that's something that sounds like a lot to me, but it's a way out, but paying for a P2P Exchange or going from one wallet to another is expensive.

I don't know the truth, but I think that to Change Bitcoin it is Necessary to do it with enough money and not do it every so often. I don't recommend using exchanges to have money, but I think it's easier, because on Binance you can quickly change it to USDT or Something like that and Between Binance Accounts , things are different.

Regarding business, it does not only include desires, but also includes several other important things, such as the amount of costs that must be used or incurred when needed. This is actually aimed at how large or small the profit can be obtained because the basic desire is to obtain profits at a cost that is quite reasonable and not too large as is experienced by many people today.

Every person's desire for any business certainly begins with their own thoughts about the business they want to run, but other considerations such as costs also need to be paid more special attention to in order to have a good balance when doing anything. And what is happening now is that the costs are high, which some people may consider unreasonable.

Any business if you don't really have a desire, it's better not to put yourself into business,because the effect of desire is not a goal in business,it's better to think first,especially if our goal is to do business in the crypto,altcoin or trading sectors.

I've seen and read several outside sources related to Bitcoin fees lately, many of them are complaining about Bitcoin fees, For this reason, many businesses that implement Bitcoin payment features are currently switching to the USDT payment method, there is no other way than for users/customers who make Bitcoin payments to have to switch to USDT at this time, waiting for Bitcoin transaction fees to stabilize.

However, there is also quite a bit of speculation that suggests Bitcoin fees will take a long time to return to their previous stability, perhaps this is one of the challenges to Bitcoin with high transaction fees, just hope that in the future everything can return to normal, if not maybe many businesses will switch to other types of crypto payments.

Totally a burden but only into those business who do really just solely accept Bitcoin as a payment but if they do have some other options like XRP or other altcoin payments then it wont really be an issue.
This is why it would be wise that if you do have a business who do accept crypto payment then you should be prepared for something like this on which there are really times that fees are really indeed high
basing up on the market network condition. For those who are really making some small transactions then these fees would definitely hurt you on which there's no way that you could really be able to
avoid unless if you do skip out on making transactions and would wait up until the fees would really be going down.

This is why it would really be best that there would be always an option for you to take specially on time like these. As a business then having more options or multiple choices would be always recommended.
Payment transactions with less fees and less hassle would be always that preferred by many. If they do see up any problems or issues then that would
normally be creating such negative impression which might last for a while.

It could be a burden to businesses that accept Bitcoin as payment, nobody will use it while the fees are too high. Of course, not fair at all for the customers, they'd rather use fiat instead unless both parties are exposed to the crypto market which has an idea of using altcoins like Tron and XRP as alternative options.

At least for now the fees is quite low compared to the past weeks. I hope this could be an indication of getting back to normal. Based on my experience, this is the time we've been taking this too long which obviously not good for businesses that accept Bitcoin.

What are you saying, put pressure on the developers to fix this congestion problem? I don't see how that's their fault or problem, and saying is best not to use them is really not in any way going to happen, do you know how many people who cherish the use of Bitcoin if that's what you mean.
Like someone (@milewilda) said that the high fee is coming back to normal and I pray it get to the normal fees we normally use to see, with Bitcoin getting to $45k and by chance surpass it I feel that would be the cause of it coming down, I just hope it gets back to normal.

Now it is really starting to going down, i have remembered on yesterday or the other way which the fees reached up 200+sat/byte per tx on which the fee rose up almost $20 which it is really just that too much specially into those people who are really that making micro transactions. Now on the time that im writing this on which it is going down to 50sat/byte on which it do really shows that the network is really that gradually going back to normal. Pretty sure, tons of Bitcoin traders or investors would really be loving on seeing the network not to be clogged again. Despite that if its really just that few bucks worth but still seeing bitcoin fees on its
lowest would be always preferrable.

We do know that conditions like this arent that permanent or something that do happen anytime. There are really just those moments or times that this condition do exist on which we do
consider out that this is one of the main major flaw or problem about Bitcoin on which it talks about its scalability.

High fee can not deprived buyers and sellers not to do their business, its obvious that buyers of bitcoin have their own alternative, we should ask ourselves that numerous of people who exchange their bitcoin with one exchange to the other, does it mean that its only exchange that make the payment all alone or theirs other people or buyers who buy bitcoin on their own, let the truth should be told, if you are interested to accumulate a bitcoin future, its obvious that the High fee of bitcoin can not deprived you not to buy bitcoin for your investment

That is true, nobody really thinks that it will go away, everyone knows that it's here to stay and that's the biggest problem. I believe that we are going to end up with some trouble that would not be simple to get rid of, and that's the main issue. I get that it's not going to end up with anything crazy, but we should consider that we are going to end up with something that will change for the long term.

If we could pressure the developers to figure out a way, eventually someone will find a way. I personally believe that the best thing we could do regarding bitcoin fee's right now would be just not to use them, unless you absolutely have to, focus on something else, use something else, and that would drop the fee rate for sure when the usage drops.

If this is the first time is happening don't you think it will become a nom like it has come to stay and we might even be having a time to expect it to happen just like we're expecting the halving.
This issue is never a thing we say it will go, we need something more helpful to let us know that this is when it will end and will never happen again, because as it is I don't see anything tats stopping it from continuing.
So if BTC reaches $100k the fee will be half of what you're sending if care is not taken, is really disturbing honestly.

It's best to temporarily not make transactions using Bitcoin if fees are a complaint, because there is no solution other than waiting for transaction fees to return to normal or using stablecoins, Litecoin, or other coins that you think have very low fees.
And indeed the problem of high Bitcoin fees is a complaint for those who use Bitcoin payments or who want to convert to fiat in small amounts, and it is really frustrating. Because small amount transaction fees will cost almost half, and this is a problem especially for small amount transactions. So for now the solution is only to use fiat, stablecoins or other coins, or not make transactions until Bitcoin transaction fees return to normal.

There will be solution soon to help the investors to remain in Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has gone round the whole world to make Bitcoin to become the king among other cryptocurrencies which the fee need to be low for buyers and sellers to continue using Bitcoin for their transaction. Since Bitcoin users have the right to choose any coin of their choice to carry out their transaction, and if the gas fee still remain high the way it is now in the market, I think many investors will look for alternative to embrace stablecoins and their gas fee will be lower than Bitcoin currently.

No, other altocoins or stablecoins are not build to be a payment scheme, it was only Bitcoin. However, when Bitcoin become a assets that is traded in an exchange, then I will say that it lost what it was originally design by Satoshi, because it become a store of value and hedge for those wealthy people.

And then there was a boom on other coins knows as alternative or altcoins market, but they have different design though and no one is like a payment system. But they can still function as one today if we look at them and with the high fees right now, we are looking for more alternatives to transact and it includes LTC.

Just imagine what that 10,000 sats you said was a few pennies then is worth now. So, invariably we're still paying below what they paid then. Isn't it? We aren't even paying up to ⅒ of that now, yet the value is crazy.

Did you say ETH? Moving ETH out is also not cheap. I rather stayed with stablecoins or LTC for such. They're very cheap to use.

Is really going to be hard for those of us that have little to send like you said someone sent $50k and I can imagine the fee being $11k or $19.9k. I was even thinking it would be more effective when you have something like $500k and the fee would be higher but that doesn't matter if you have to do a higher transaction or not. This system is going to make many traders and investors to make decisions they never planned on making.
It's better it comes to an end before the end of this week because many are seriously crying for this issue to be resolved or come back to normal and if that happens I feel it will be a nice way to start up the new year 2024.

First, Bitcoin is an alternative payment, in fact there are many other alternative payments, such as using stablecoins or other altcoins. However, this depends on the type of business and the agreement between the owner and worker, user or buyer and seller. If both parties agree to continue using Bitcoin then they certainly don't have any problems regarding the problem of Bitcoin network congestion and Bitcoin transaction fees.

OP, bitcoin payment should be not be accepted and you should use other means of payment. It is either accept fiat currency and if you are not cool with it, you can use stable coins, because with it seems that with time stable coins will be used more of an alternative payment than bitcoin.
 
Businesses that are accepting bitcoin is finding it difficult to cope with it because your customers might not have the idea of LN and how it works. I hope that the fee comes back to normal because more BRC20 token will soon be created.

This is the first time, because there has never been another entity that "interferes" with the network like ordinals. Look at the transaction traffic chart throughout history, how do you see the big spike recently compared to the 2021's ATH session?: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactions.html#alltime
As I said before there is no direct correlation that high prices must result in high fee rates (in sats units). Network congestion can occur even if bitcoin is worth $1.

Those people usually transact a few chunk of bitcoins are usually got affected with fees since usually we need to put up some high figures for each transaction even if we only transfer a few amount. But for high whales which is usually do high volume of transaction each transfer I guess they don't really care much about the fees since I can still see some people paying bitcoin even if the current situation is not good for everyone but they carry on those fee and just think about that its part of the growth of bitcoin.

Maybe if we don't like to pay such huge fees better to check best alternative coins to transfer since there are cheap transaction fee coins has been used by other people as their alternative currency if they want to transfer without paying any huge amount of money to make their transaction happen.

The only solution at a personal level is not to make low-value transactions. In another thread a fellow forum member claims to have done a $50 transaction paying a $15 fee. That's crazy and if I'm going to have to pay that fee I'm not going to send any transaction under $200.

On the other hand, we can not know for sure but I think the fees have to end up moderating because at some point the fashion of paying high fees to fill the blockchain with spam will end.

Hasn't this network congestion been there all these while? Or is it now that we're having a higher price of Bitcoin that's when it seems like is having effect on all transactions?
Is not really clear because is like whatsoever is deducting the fee at high rate is taking advantage of the fact that the price of BTC is high, it needs to benefit from traders and investors this period and I believe this is the first time is happening.

Price fluctuations don't directly affect fee fluctuations, you can compare the two in the bullish phase throughout 2021. When the 2nd price peak was reached (July to November), the fee rates was almost stagnant at $2 to $5 for 1 transaction.



And currently, coincidentally, the ordinals NFT hype is causing thousands of transactions faltered and increase each other's fees to get priority confirmation speed. Had that happened in bear season 5 years ago (2018), the fee rates would probably be as severe as they're today.

The answer: Obviously network congestion.
The solution: Obviously, overhaul the protocol somehow.
For the record, there is no perfect protocol (even up to date) that can answer some its network problems in the future. Improvements must continue to be made.

Because not everyone has access to half-decent payment rails and not everyone can stomach the volatility? As for depegs, we're talking about payments here not long-term holdings so risks of depegs at the short timespan where you need the stables are very low.

Even when talking about holdings — the currencies of some countries are pretty shite and very inflationary. And if you can't afford volatility, it's not bad to hold USDT/USDC.

Do you think there's an answer to this high rate of fee?
I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?
Like before if you want to send $100 the fee won't be that disturbing but now is like you have to even owe whosoever is collecting the fee. Is this how we're going to end 2023, with complains that have no solution? I wish it will end this year...

There are several causes for this, but the growing acceptance and usage of Bitcoin is one of the primary ones. I think it wouldn't be incorrect to state that the higher the price of Bitcoin, the higher the fee because as more people troop into the Network and utilize the it, the demand for transactions rises and so do the fees. It's more appropriate to point the finger at the structure of the Bitcoin network than at any one person or organization. Though there have been some suggestions for remedies, such as the Lightning Network and others but the problem still persists.

I rarely do any p2p bitcoin transactions now a days but if I did it wouldn’t be on the bitcoin network. And the fees are only half the problem. The other half is the wait time.

I remember years ago, doing some p2p meet and I think it took 1.5 hours for the block to confirm. And this was when blocks were empty, basically default fee was like 10000 sats which was a few Pennies back then.

If you do p2P you need it cheap and quick. Best is Ethereum with a stable coin of some sort like USDT.

I'm going to scan the rest of this thread to see if there's a solid answer to that, as I've been wondering about the cause ever since the first time I saw the network super-congested with fees sky-high.  I've always chalked it up to high volume during times of price volatility, like during bull markets with severe dips and such.  Usually fees don't jump to the roof when the price falls (though I could be mistaken on that), so I'm puzzled.

But either way I'm so fakkin' tired of this shit.  You can't send $25 worth of bitcoin without paying nearly half of that in network fees in order to get your transaction confirmed in a reasonable amount of time.  It's crazy.

Only 2 options: suspend bitcoin acceptance or utilize centralized wallet internal transfers (for physical stores). I know a little about LN, but not the people around me and need to see the scale of the business. Moreover it is also not fee-efficient for small businesses or if bitcoin is just an alternative.

Just accept altcoin instead of Bitcoin, or don't accept any cryptocurrency at all.

Right now, Bitcoin is more of a store of value than a currency. The ones who are still sending Bitcoins right now are probably those who want to hold in preparation for the bull run, and not those people who want to buy something because the fees are just too high that they can't afford it anymore. I don't see any point at least this time for Bitcoin to be used to pay for something.

Find another alternative payment method, or don't accept Bitcoin. It's just too much, and TBH, I don't know if the fees will go down anytime soon. These ordinals kill the main purpose of Bitcoin which is to be used to buy something. More of a currency side thing, but it's becoming an asset now.

I don't really know who or what's the major cause of this high transaction fee and it's very worrisome to the extent that some people have no choice than to go with whatever fee or charges that comes up. It would have been better if we can set a default fee at least we'll know how much we're losing while conducting any transactions.
Business is really slowing down, Bitcoin holders or sellers are losing and there's nothing we can do to get it back to normal, talking about the fee.
Is it that the higher we see Bitcoin price the higher the fee? Because I noticed that ever since Bitcoin price hit $30-40k the fees has never been the same, who's to blame for this current issue and what seems to be the solution?

There is no point in using Bitcoin as a payment method when the charges are exorbitant hence I would rather suggest and this is something which I had been doing for a while now, we should start utilizing other crypto assets like altcoins or stable coins instead of Bitcoin for transfer because it doesn't make sense for us to pay such high transaction fees.

But, still the opinions are divided while some would agree with my method and some would disagree and say that we should only do higher transactions to cut down on transaction fees.

of course, with a high sending fee, the money spent by the buyer is more, so the overall price is more expensive. even the price is above the market price of the product purchased.
If transactions using crypto currency, the majority of people prefer small fees and multiplatform networks so users can choose the cheapest sending fee. like USDT, there are many networks that are used.

What the OP is insinuating is that; no buyer will want to wait for long before receiving payment through bitcoin after they’ve done a transaction between themselves. The transaction fees will determine how fast the transaction will get into the next block, not all sellers can wait for that and no one wants to set a high transaction fees for an amount that is not worth it.

Sadly this is the case right now, Bitcoin is unusable as a payment method by online sellers. Although before the main reason is that it's volatile, now it's the high fees because we have been under attack before the developer of Bitcoin ordinals have found a loophole and exploit it and they it created hype causing the mempool to be also congested, hence bitcoin enthusiast trying to get their transaction to be in front by paying high fees.

I'm not into business that take Bitcoin, but in this kind of situation? I will honestly stop accepting it. And then uses other crypto as an alternative because BTC is not viable for use now.

I think LN is the answer for those stores and it has been proven already. But as far as online goes, I do agree with the current fees, you don't expect someone to buy using their bitcoin specially that it was initially design for "micropayments", the mempool is congested because of BRC-20 ordinals that everyone is really affected and suffering.

As far as I know there was a proposal, anyways, it's beyond us for now, the devs or who is involved should debate whether they will implement it or not.

Or course, those businesses have options to used other cryptos, but it will defeat the purpose of bitcoin being that supposedly coin to handle that.

It will be an obstacle for business people who use Bitcoin as a means of payment if Bitcoin transaction fees are high. The solution may be to carry out transactions using the lightning network or using Tron or stable coins.
I have never used the lightning network for transactions and am not familiar with it, but when Bitcoin transaction fees are high then the alternative is to use stable coins.

I think that's why you should find alternatives in the market when you think there's a high transaction cost and there are plenty of choices out there. If I have that business I think I'll go with altcoins and fo sure you'll not be the one affected in this situation, you'll still find customers for sure if you market altcoins.

It seems to me that if the business is some small sales or services, it is better to use some other coin. For example usdt, because at the moment of purchase the price is fixed in dollar equivalent. In general, bitcoin has long since become not the best means of payment. For example, if I need to buy something for 10 dollars, I'm not comfortable paying fees as much.

LN is one solution and as said about stablecoins on different chains. But at this time if you're aware of the offchain transactions, this can be done through the same exchange from user to user transfer and that will be fee less.

Yeah, this is us. We are just waiting for the right timing that the mempool isn't asking that much and the fee is bearable. But when it's not, then obviously we're not going to make it and will have to go back to the waiting game.

Options and methods are really that available on which it would really be just that right that you would be making adjustments whenever we do see network condition is really a mess or being clogged up on which it would really be that resulting into that high fees. I do understand the feeling into those people who got stuck because of having high fees, unless if you are having tons of money then this condition wont really be that an issue
but for those who are really just that average traders or investors who are really that making those transations then this current fee would really be giving out such impact or would really be a hurting one.
Just like on what you had said we can always have the option since there are altcoins which are really that cheap and fast when it comes to fees and transaction confirmation.

Now that the network is really that congested and doesnt really go below 100 sats per byte. Whenever it do hover out into that point the fees starts up to climb
again and again on which i do have honestly tons of micro transactions had really be that pending for almost a week now. It doesnt have the chance
on getting confirmed.

Bitcoin network is killing business around it, what is happening is so discouraging, yet people will continue to trade and invest in it or even stake it and get their money. But this is a different ballgame when it comes to the reliability of sending and receiving money through it. This is so bad as the network has allowed and has let this ugly congestion situation continue unabated. Miners are the only ones gaining from this but this is selfish and it will not mean well for Bitcoin and what Satoshi envisaged for it.

About your question, I do not think there is a solution for those who are building businesses around Bitcoin. It is either they pay the high fee or move to another coin/token that will run their business smoothly. Honestly, I am certain that the number of those who are sending and receiving money through Bitcoin will be so little now unless they do not have a choice because I can't imagine myself continuing to pay such insane amounts of money for fees everytime. I better use my money for something else. There are some companies I deal with now that have started advising their customers against the use of Bitcoin to avoid issues since complaints are too much. If this continues like this, it can never mean well for Bitcoin payments in the long run.

Don’t get me wrong but bitcoin is just an alternative and as a business person you look at which option seems suitable, bitcoin was projected by satoshi to be an alternative when fiat payment would be more like an hassle. Yes business using bitcoin as payment are actually doing well to grow its adoption but at this point it is best to find other alternatives like the local currency you use and use bitcoin when only for cross border transactions and it is cheaper or convenient.

6 confirmation is the secure number of confirmation needed by a seller to accept bitcoin payment although it could be less, this confirmation time actually varies but it is not as long as we place it today and the Mempool congestion doesn’t have any effect on the confirmation time if at all you set the fee at a transaction more than enough to get into the next block

Why using stable coins when you can also use fiat? Stable coins are just tokenized fiat and they are risky than fiat because they are pegged. I will prefer to have other coins like litecoin, litecoin or tron itself and other coins like bitcoin when talking something about bitcoin.

A trade is done if the transaction is confirmed by miner.

No confirm, the trade is not done because the sender can double-spend unconfirmed transaction any time.

The answer is simply to use alternatives (stablecoins through Solana or Tron) and wait for a viable Bitcoin layer-2 or sidechain to be stable and widely accepted. There's simply not point to use Bitcoin base-chain unless you're paying for something far less more than the transaction fee.

Some people are still using bitcoin even as the transaction fee is high. If they can not use bitcoin network fee or payment, they can use lightning network. If they can not use any of the two, let them use altcoin like litecoin for payment because the fee is very low.

We all know that Bitcoin is used for making payments. So, people who buy uses bitcoin to send payment and those who sell uses it to receive payment from anywhere in the word. But the situation of high transaction fees is affecting buyers and sellers. They are now looking for an alternative to make payment instead of using bitcoin. Another thing is that if transaction is made, sellers will have to wait for long to receive payment and no seller wants that kind of delay in his/her business.

Do you think there is a solution to this, or B2B and P2B, business that uses bitcoin should find another alternative to payment method instead of Bitcoin?

For those who are into business that make use of bitcoin, how do you harness this situation of high transaction fess to not affect your business and customers? So that others will learn from your tips.