Topic: HODL! U.S. debt Alarm (Read 573 times)

US debt is here to stay and Trump cant change it. People are believe in the US economy

The world also entered the 2008 recession in much better economic state than we are entering this one. Interest rates are already at a record low; they have not recovered to any meaningful degree since being cut massively during the last recession. Therefore, they can't be cut again like they were in 2008 to encourage more borrowing and therefore more spending. Debt is skyrocketing. Household debt, government debt, national debt, all way up compared to 12 years ago. Increasing government spending to provide a stimulus (again, which already happened in 2008) will face more resistance and is likely to be smaller due to adding to the already skyrocketing debt. Add in all the new tariffs which are going to apply to huge markets, such as between US-China and between UK-EU, and we are in for a very rocky time. It's going to be bad time to be holding fiat.

It's a necessity, sure, but with some sensible healthcare reforms the US could save literally billions of dollars and still receive better care. By almost every objective measure, the US system is the most expensive, least efficient, least effective and has the worst outcomes of any western nation. The problem is there are too many people who cry "socialism" and stop listening as soon you mention healthcare reform.

I don't think Trump (or anyone else for that matter) can actually do anything to bring the debt down. It's already at a stage where you can calculate forward as to how much debt there is next month, next year, etc. The most they can do (realistically speaking) is to slow down the rate at which the debt is groing. The US is too far gone to actually reduce the debt. It's wishful thinking to expect that.

And no, I don't think that they have spent a second thinking about how they can benefit from crypto. Instead, they have spent their time thinking about how they can firmly regulate it.

The world economy somehow got through the 2008 recession because it wasn't as massive as the concurrent one, I don't know how businesses are going to survive through the recession, or any global tragedy,economic or not. Regardless of how much money there's been put in the hands of the general economy, its safe to say that it is still not enough for 60% of the population to get through the crisis through and through.

Worse part is, I was told that a few countries are charging fines for the people who dare say that their country is going through a recession. That surely is one way to go at it.

Healthcare is way too important in the US, as ridiculous as it is, its a necessity, for the state that US is in, if they don't invest in their health care properly, they won't withhold for long. While the military spending isn't required as much, they could certainly allot the spending into much smarter choices, but alas that's not how things work. :"/

But he cannot do that, in fact no one can, the current system is based on borrowing money to try to accelerate the economic growth, if the US stops printing and borrowing money it will decelerate to the point that it will create a recession or even a depression around the world, there is no way to solve the problem central banks around the world have created except for the implementation of a new economic system and that only happens when the previous one has been proven to not work anymore.

I agree with you. Borrowing money for further development is an integral part of the modern economy. Since there is no better economic model around yet, judging about the economic situation in a country by the size of its debt is a fallacy. If only the countries with much smaller debt were prospering, but this obviously not the case.

Never say never, all they just need the right approach to it. there might have been worst debt than that which they have overcome and I believe they will overcome this too, just might not be in the term of Trump because I don’t know if trump is a curse on then or blessing, he has his own positive side though but without a solid financial system, he his just a failure because this is what could bring down the power of America over the world.

If trump is to win the second term, he needs to do everything possible to bring this debt down rather than increasing it the more before they declare state of emergency on their economy, and I expect him to have been thinking of how they can take advantage of the new cryptocurrency to see what they can do about it.

It's Trump that you are taking about.
He is bound to increase things that is destructive well guess why ?
Because the doesn't know anything about it and he doesn't even care what might happen .. to people who are involved in it.
This is the reason everyone is against the president .

Wish I could find another thread talking about interest rates and inflation, and how much money's printed by a central bank, and how it's quite closely related to GDP, spending, and debt.

Now debt alone is a terrible factor to decide if the economic situations is bad. As someone else mentions above, what you produce economically has to play an important role as well. Especially if, as most economies try to do, the idea is to borrow so you can develop and build an economy that will pay back that debt and then some.

I can think of at least 1 country without external debt (Brunei) that has been very worried about its economy for the past few years since oil price dropped. Had they borrowed money -- and invested their income from oil in sovereign funds for example, instead of lavishing their reserves -- to develop and diversify their economy, they might not be in their problem today with stagnating industries and unemployment.

US will never be able to pay their debt, it is almost impossible to grasp the amount of their debt.
It is absolutely huge.

For sure there is big lobby to go in even bigger debt , to take more money not only to buy stuff from lobbyist niches but also to pay more percents to those who gives out these debts. It would be interesting to see how these interest rates are progressing over time, what are the values of their paid debt monthly and yearly. For sure there would be some interesting stuff

Yeah, Suda might have the youngest population, not sure about it, but it's pretty damn easy when the life expectancy is 64 years, while in Japan is 84. Of course, ho cares about living 20 years more, right?

What people tend to forget is that there is also another indicator of the wealth of those countries.
And the website we talk about also has it, at the bottom

See this small thingy:



Well, on average it will take the Sudanese people 2 lives to achieve this wealth and only if they do not spend a dime!


What was there to restore? Nothing!
In 3 more terms, he will take the debt to 30 trillion the way he started.

the eradication of national debt so far in a term is impossible. We have to give Mr. Trump another 2-3 more terms so he can do it.
In the first term, he did a very good job of restoring the US economy, the next step would be to gradually eliminate bad debt.

Exactly. The amount of debt doesn't inherently matter, particularly when all major world currencies are fiat monies with floating exchange rates. What matters is lending liquidity and ultimately faith in the underlying currency.

I'm not saying the USD will never collapse, but the people perpetually predicting it for the past few decades remind me of this:

As long as USA is capable of paying the debts they have to right now, the future debts still mean nothing to them, you can have 100 trillion dollars in debt and as long as you have 100 years to pay it then there is no problem for them. Now, the real problem is the debt they have to pay right away and since economy is not doing that well and they are making tax cuts that disables to option to get money right away and pay it, they are having trouble paying it.

If they somehow come up with a solution that would pay the current debt then they will not have any problems at all, all they need to do is increase the taxes for the wealthy people again and I am 90% sure that will be what the democrat candidate will do if they win 2020 so the problem will not live that long.

The US government can afford such high levels of debt, because there is a lot of demand for United States Treasury Bonds and the current interest rate is just 3% to 4% per year. So unlike the other countries, the Americans are able to take out huge loans, at very low interest. But is this going to continue for ever? The largest holder of US bonds is China. And they are planning to offload most of these bonds.

You should always take GDP in consideration when looking at country debt. But of course you also need to look how is debt structured. But there are also other things important. Japan is quite deep in shit. Their population is aging fast.  Sudan have one of youngest population on world.  Also debt dont make economic situation worse, but better. Paying that debt off will make it worse.

USA debt and world debt is rising every day.It looks like there is no limitation
But notice that now we have new kind of money that new money are debt money.Debt is money debt is asset.Debt is slavery tool debt is able to destroy individuals and small and medium companies
However last time we have record gold buy from central banks.Russia sold half of his dollar reserve and bought gold India and China are buying gold as well
Personally i think we are entering in to the end of dollar dominance,what will create tensions,wars and conflicts .

There is very little liquidity within this market, so if there actually is debt flowing into Bitcoin, it will have a massive impact. I however don't think there is much of it flowing into Bitcoin. People hope it is, but that's just how they are.

I do however agree that every form of safe haven capital that is being pumped into Bitcoin will be taken out immediately when investors see the early signs of an improving economy.

This is why I prefer that Bitcoin isn't being used as a safe haven asset by the more traditional investors. People here love it when the price pumps, but as they have proven more than once already, they can't handle large corrections.

The US government debt might help for pumping the bitcoin price,but I don't think the impact is going to be that big.After all,the investors have a lot of options,when it comes to putting their money-real estate,gold,oil,stocks,derivatives,etc.The upcoming recession will scare the shit out of investors and some of them will find a safe heaven in bitcoin,but this is going to be only short term.

Well, I guess it would be cheaper to buy Greenland and then to relocate there, if you do not want to deal with the problems with all the illegal Mexicans that enters the US on a daily basis. No wonder there was a Government shutdown over the Wall he wanted to build between the US and Mexico.    < That wall would have cost up to $25 million per mile and take years to build and it would cost the White House about $5.7 billion to cover only about 230 miles.>   

His government should start to lead by example and implement belt tightening measures to curb government spending on useless projects like that. 

Whether a huge national debt indicates a bad economic situation in the country has been always a big question for me. Look at the list of top 5 countries with the highest external debt:



Can we say that the countries from the list above have poorer economic situation than that of the countries from the list below?



Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Or, if we take GDP into consideration,


Source: http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt/

Would it be right to suggest that economic situation in Sudan is somehow better than that in Japan?

They think cutting would create a better economy and republicans love to make cuts to tax in order to make people live with money they have instead of getting free stuff from government but what they are forgetting is that rich people and wealthy could pay no taxes and still live without any government hand out whereas poor people will have a lot of hard time, no tax country where everything is charged is not something poor people can afford whereas if everyone paid a decent amount of tax according to how much they make then all of the country could live happily.

These tax cuts would make few people better off in economical sense whereas it will create a lot of trouble for the whole of the country, 90%+ will be affected to save the %1 richest one once again.

I read somewhere that US is going to print USDs worth of 7 trillion to pay their debts which caused them expense of 320 billion for the printing works which means their debt will be gone but their money will go deep down due to the high inflation rate in the short time period.I am not sure much about why they got debts but it is not good for the future of a nation like US whose money to be considered as one of the most stable all around the world.

The debt doesn't even matter, don't be fooled.  Its all just a magic show they put on us to trap us and keep us controlled.  What matters is hard scientific breakthroughs that really change our lives and when the ones in power want to use it for evil they will destroy us.

I can say that president Trump is trying his best to neutalize this debt issue but like the other past presidents it is very impossible to totally wipe out this increasing obligation specially if the people are not united to support his campaigns but uniting them is very impossible too therefore expect that this plunged debt will continue until his last term

Holding good assets (i.e. Bitcoin, Gold, etc) should be something people by default should do. In times where there isn't much demand for Gold due to strong global economics, its price is usually lower and for that reason a great time to enter and keep adding as time goes by. Most people tend to wait for things to turn bad before they start buying themselves into Gold.

It might sound a bit contractictory coming from a Bitcoin maximalist, but it's definitely a good idea to buy up some physical Gold too. As long as Bitcoin is seen as a risk-on asset by the general public, it might get dumped down just as hard as stocks will be dumped down. Gold is generally the last asset that is liquidated when people are in need of fiat.

It's going to be nasty. Italy already went in to a recession last year, and looking at the same again this year. Other major economies, such as China, Germany, UK, and South Korea, have already seen a contraction in one quarter this year so far, and are therefore on the brink of a recession. There are plenty of other smaller economies in the same situation, and some other countries already in a recession. Impossible to say when it's coming, but it is, and we are all entering it in a far worse economic state than we did in 2008.

US government spending is ridiculous, and the national debt will only increase with the money being allocated as it is. The US spends more on defense than the next seven highest spending countries combined. The US alone makes up over one third of global military expenditure. Other ridiculous spending includes healthcare; between medicare, medicaid, and other health spending, the US spends around 23% of its entire budget on health. In terms of both dollars per capita and GDP, the US spends at least twice as much as most other Western nations on healthcare (and gets worse outcomes for it, but that's a whole other discussion).

This is what a lot of doomsdayers don't understand. Fiat monies with floating exchange rates work as a matter of faith. The only things that threaten that faith are liquidity crises, like we saw in 2008. Fundamentally the number itself, the amount of debt, doesn't matter. This is why the doomsdayers who have been predicting imminent USD collapse for decades have been perpetually wrong. The system is unsustainable but predicting which liquidity crisis will finally cause a global currency reset is a fool's errand. We could be dead before it finally happens.

A country is considered in difficulties when its Debt-to-GDP ratio is above ~75%. The US ratio is over 100-110%. Yet the country keeps spending half of the budget in military programs. If you prefer to fight with the latest guns than to eat, then you have a problem. Printing money doesn't help at all, it only devalues the dollar and creates inflation.

Perhaps he knows how to manage companies financially, and it's still debatable, but in any case, he doesn't know how to do it with a country's budget at all. The U.S. budget deficit is out of mind, either they change their habits or welcome a recession.

Last time I check was when the debt has risen in an alarming rate in the US it triggered a recession in their country so I expect all of their markets will follow up and start having a bear market. With all their investors liquidating their assets for some quick cash I know only the safest place to go now is to international markets like Forex and also the crypto market. The crypto market will play an important role here but I doubt that it will be a guaranteed positive effect because we do have some whales in the market not to mention a lot of traders already existing in there.

In every country this is common to see the wiping out of debt on the election agenda. American president Trump too have given the same statement, and later they understand about the reality. From my understanding in one term of ruling it is impossible to make every plans executed, at least two term of governance will make the plans implemented.

Importantly when the debt goes beyond limits USA will always have the plans of printing the currency of their own to stop the inflation.

This debt will never runs out, it will continue to grow as they continue to improve their country and become a better nation. The recession are coming and no one can stop that, the U.S debt continues to hurt their economy and the trade war with China is a bad decision for U.S, they can't stop China on this way. Hold more good assets, and if you have mortgages expect a higher interest rates in the coming years so try to buy more bitcoin for now.

What should be emphasized is that this promise or rather the utter nonsense is from 2 April, 2016 based on link stompix posted,, and we know that after 3+ years there were no positive changes regarding the reduction of national debt, but it happened just the opposite - so that debt grew from $ 19 trillion to $22 trillion in time of Trump presidency. Does anyone think that this debt will go down in next 4-5 years? Only if they appoint the greatest miracle worker of all time instead of the president in White House.

Maybe Trump plans to reduce national debt with the purchase of Greenland? When Denmark say no to that offer, he is canceled state visit to that country

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/21/trump-state-visit-cancellation-over-greenland-shocks-danes

Hard to imagine that kind of debt... 22 trillion dollars! Doesn't the country see what's happening and doesn't it realize it is only delaying the collapse of its own economy? Or will the world bank and all US allies step in to save them?

Bitcoin people are happy but they should also worry if the world's largest economy collapses.

I really have my doubts that Trump said anything about wiping out the national debt, This actually coming from a businessman who has has declared bankruptcy a number of times seems untrue. And also being an apt businessman, i think he knows its not really feasible. His main promises i believe was securing their borders and making sure that there is jobs for Americans.

All countries fiat currency allows debt. EURO is a little bit different because there are more countries that have to reach an agreement on the max allowed yearly percents, but that's all.

Since the debt is in US dollars, I guess that the "easy" way to reduce it is by inflation: make the same debt worth less. Just US doesn't afford to have too big inflation, because then the US Dollar will not be considered by the weaker countries to safe heaven. But every tenth of a percent matters a lot.

All in all, while the debt increases indeed, the US Dollar may not fall too deep. Actually I expect that the increased influence of US in Arabia is exactly to keep oil prices in US Dollar, keeping the currency strong.
If that changes, then indeed, US Dollar may get into tough times.

Politicians lie and that is one thing you can always bargain on. Donald Trump's main goal with these trade wars was to build the local economy and to create more jobs in the USA. The problem with that is that certain industries started to collapse, after he started with these trade wars, because other countries like China had control over certain imports that was needed to sustain certain industries within the USA.

It also does not give him a 100% guarantee that more jobs would lead to less debt. People's lust for consumer goods and junk food is just one of the problems that the USA have to deal with.  

Well, Clinton managed to do it.
So, for the last period, at last, Republicans managed to increase the deficit far more than Democrats.
Anyhow, I wouldn't consider Trump as a republican, the man is whatever he thinks is cool to be.


Not really, they get the data from sources that publish them quarterly or yearly and make projections of it.
So the clock might go forwards when in fact for the whole period the situation changed, or it can have a higher or lower speed than it is actually happening.

Some how it was the financial meltdown of 2008 in the United States of America that gave rise to the idea of Bitcoin and now it is look like the same America will further strengthen bitcoin indirectly through its inability to solve its debt backlog. We are waiting for this.

The USA economy (and similar nations who modeled their system from it) is now beyond redemption from the straggling debt and its insurmountable problems. No President can ever stop the mounting debt as doing so is considered as political suicide. Debt can mean more money for the government to do its job and more money for public services and projects which are undoubtedly good reasons to borrow more and more...leave to the future generations how they will cope the most important thing is to survive in the present. Now, if a Republican President could not stop the mounting debt, how much more a Democrat one? 

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/02/transcript-donald-trump-interview-with-bob-woodward-and-robert-costa/

So he wanted to solve the trade deficit by renegotiating trade deals. However, the US had both trade and federal deficits AFAIK. IMO solving trade only addresses part of the problems. Hence, the US should reap the investment (profit) from all these years deficits/investments, e.g., cutting subsidies, raising interest, and more production/fewer consumption.

Alternatively, threatening to nuke the rest of the world to give them money.

PS: he might have different ideas in 2019 since the interview was in 2016.

There's no fucking way Trump clears out the entire US debt, I'd be surprised if he manages to wipe out 1% of it, and as small as the 1% may genuinely sound, realistically that's a fuckton of money, and that is 220,000,000,000$ aka 220 Billion.

Here's how I see it: Trump mines out all the fucking oil from these Middle-eastern and other oil rich countries, disintegrate all of those fucking countries so they dont fight back, and he makes US even more rich, prints out more money, and gives out more fucking loans,because they still need more money and it wont be enough to avert Global crisis.

HODL bitcoin or not, the recession that's at our necks is gonna fuck us all, and we can do literally nothing about it.

All over the world, almost every country is in debt. That is how the world and the financial sector is moving in this century. The more responsibilities you put on yourself, the more you are likely to be in debt. Part of the  annual budget of the US government are used in military operations and taking   care of many deprived areas of the world. It is not surprising to see such financial reports on the United States.

Can somebody tell me if this website[1] for the monitoring of US debt is viable and somehow accurate?

[1] https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Yes, definitely but until now many US citizens still doesn't consider and know it.

And I'm not surprised at all. The kinda way the USA builds their economy will basically result in such. Printing money anyhow is one of the reasons and also that their undue economic supremacy they try to portray all the time. I learnt they're now considering a tax cut which will eventually lure people into keeping more at the banks lol. Bitcoin is indeed a safe haven.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/02/transcript-donald-trump-interview-with-bob-woodward-and-robert-costa/  
It's behind a paywall so here is the part:


Anyhow, Trump said a lot of stupid things....no point even counting them.
As for the debt itself, it has reached a point where it doesn't even matter how big it is and how much is growing.

Do you have link to source of that promise. Sounds a dumb promise. Thx in advance.

The US monetary system is made to allow for an ever increasing debt.

After his election, Trump promised to wipe out the US national debt, but the national debt has already grown at a rapid rate and exceeded $ 22 trillion for the first time in February.
As experts say, this will be a concern because over time it can raise interest rates for consumers, which means higher rates of mortgages and other types of loans.


For more ---> Debt and deficits are skyrocketing. How does it affect you?
Source ---> 'Self-inflicted wound': Donald Trump signs budget bill as
experts warn he's on track to add trillions to U.S. debt


  Trump wrote: