Topic: Homeland Security raids mall kiosks, claims they "fund terrorists" (Read 5768 times)

Sadly, I don't have to imagine:

Just imagine how much of Govt bitch one must be to defend this Protect-The-Fatherland-From-Terrorists fairytale. Nationalism is a mental disorder.

Godwin is not god. The comparison is just, and if you are as old as you claim, you know it. This country is not the one I grew up in. It barely resembles it. And I'm only 44.

Well, some discussions provoke a comparison to Hitler a little faster than others.

This one, I'm surprised it took this long.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Being German, this reminds me somehow of the german GeStaPo (Geheime Staatspolizei, "Secret State Police"), a police-like organization which was established and active during the 3rd Reich, a rather bleak era for Germany in the first third of the last century.

Their equivalent for "terrorists" where "Jews". They could make up any kind of case or investigation when they put the word "Jew" in it. And arrest and incarcerate you immediately for an indetermined time, in any place of their choice, with no judge, no warrant, no right to talk to a lawyer, in fact without any rights of anything at all.

"They could be supporting Jews. They have friends that are Jews. They bought from/sold to Jews. They helped Jews. They had sex with Jews." And so on.

Bad things seem to have a tendency of iteration, sometimes just the names change.

I guess they shouldn't have been selling illegal counterfeit goods then, huh?

This is huge mission creep for DHS and by the logic that 'could fund terrorist' basically applies to ANY profit making venture.  Nothing about the goods being counterfeit makes it MORE likely to fund terrorists.  And I am not against legitimate raids by local police after a warning has been given that goods are counterfeit so long as counterfeit does not extend into 'gray market' (non counterfeit goods intended for a different market) goods.  That is also mission creep and should be handled with just a lawsuit.   

I like this version.

So another version then:

"Uniformed terrorist gang robs small-time entrepeneurs in plain daylight"

If anybody didn't expect this kind of thing to occur, they obviously missed the most basic tenets of primate psychology. 

If you give a bunch of kids uniforms and guns and tell them its ok to rob people and commit violence for political gain, it's likely to happen. 

So, do you think this kind of thing is going to get more blatant and costly for us all until we fight back or will these guys grow up and find real jobs on their own? 

I could dispute this a great deal. But following on your logic, what about Federal Reserve Notes? If you follow their history from their first issuance in 1913 through today, they cannot be called anything BUT counterfeit. Originally, they were a warehouse receipt. Then through quasi-legal subterfuge and outright theft in 1937, they were made to be promissory notes. Then the original intent was sacrificed on the altar of the great god Keynes. Now they are LITERALLY worth less than the special paper they are printed on.

They are made without industry regulations (because the manufacturers are illegal in the first place{No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.}).

What I NEVER see pointed out in these threads, even by people on my side of the argument, is something that should be trumpeted from the rooftops. DHS and KGB have the same meaning, and the same function. There was never any purpose behind DHS EXCEPT to spy on and control the subjects of the Empire. If they are involved, it's dirty. Period. These are people who view honesty and integrity as swear words.

I have lived in the Empire for 44 years. In my youth it was a relatively pleasant and relatively free place. Now, in just a couple of decades, it has turned into something beyond the Checka's wildest dreams. Hitler would be jealous and Mussolini proud.

News flash. The difference between a "terrorist" and a "soldier" is who's telling the story.

^^^ This.  Some of us are old enough to remember.

When it comes to major brands, I actually always try to buy counterfeit goods when safety is not at risk. Clothes, for example. Feels good at many levels, and feels even better after reading this thread.

The only way that I could see it being sensationalist or a lie is if one's perception is influenced by a predilection to be favorable to public agencies. I was a little surprised by the vehemence of the complaint.

Yepper. A strong, well-funded "civilian security force" has never gone wrong in any other place or era. /s

I'm not the one raising objections to anything but DHS's mission creep.

All proceeds according to plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

In Northern Ireland, after the IRA declared a ceasefire, there was a similiar rash of investigations into petty drug dealing and the like.  There really is nothing like the scent of redundancy letters to inspire this kind of zeal.

It is a very queer use of resources, that I can agree with. That they needed "undercover" agents to buy the items in the first place sounds like a badly scripted 007 film. I think it can boil down to two basic options. Either the DHS left out some very major details in order to preserve the operation as a whole... or they are completely wasting their time with mundane investigations.

The tone of the OP's article says "Look at me - I am not a waste of money."  It's not a huge issue that DHS got used instead of the local cops to arrest hucksters selling fake copyrights.  But it is interesting that they have so little work that is what they are told to do.

This could be a possibility. Government always tends to go for a reward-by-result numbers game. I wouldn't be able to say such a thing is true, because I'm not in a position to say just how much impact the DHS really has on the activity of terrorists. I think in the end though a strategy such as this would be moot, as you would be chasing phantom cases. "We thought this was the action of terrorists but wasn't, oops" might be a lot worse than "we have thus far found no sign of terrorist threat." Having one rather small article to go on makes assessment of exactly what the DHS is doing in this case is all but impossible.

What if, and this is only speculation, in these days of sequestrated budgets, the Department of Homeland Security wants to show its not a total waste of money and operations like this are all they have to work on?

Seriously there is no invasion for them to defend against; the Boston bombs make them look stupid; money is tight; perhaps this is all they have to avoid being fired for uselessness?

Or maybe a better title would be: DHS desperate for purpose, claims flimsy excuse to raid mall kisoks?

Exactly.

The Sun is made of cotton candy! The Sun is made of cotton candy! Maybe if I say it over and over again, it becomes true? I mean, that must be what happens. There is no other reason you would so blatantly lie over and over again. Continue this type of garbage discussion and I will ignore you for trolling. Now try again, and think before you post this time.


The flip side is that if the DHS got involved, they probably have more evidence than a bunch of counterfeit merchandise. There could be an absolute bucket of reasons that the DHS did this and I highly doubt it is solely because they thought that terrorists were using the products as income. That is personal speculation on my part though. Other than that, I agree that the DHS handling this was extreme, but as far as I'm concerned, it was far from the wrong thing to do.

Frankly, I am surprised that MFC hasn't caught more heat about sending money around the world, some of the girls look to be in cave!

I don't remember hearing anything about a new, invasive police force with jurisdiction everywhere called DHS. It didn't seem to garner as much discussion as it probably should have, considering it now handles everything from MSB compliance to cheap knock-off products in malls.

You know, though, AE -- cell phone accessories have notoriously high markup over cost to manufacture. It's in roughly the same margin class as "designer" costume jewelry. Why on Earth would any organization be worried about increasing an 80% margin? Are the "dangerous underground entities" just that greedy? Or maybe the plastic foundry (are they called foundries?) is part of the much bigger money-laundering, kill-Americans-with-unsafe-plastics scheme?

Thanks, that's all I needed. Now, since the DHS is involved, clearly the case involved terrorists, yes? So the title is neither sensationalist, nor a lie.

The problem is that Homeland Security people are sitting about waiting since 2002 waiting for something they can fight back against.  Nothing has happened that they can stop. So they are using counter-terrorist institutions and legislation against hucksters selling fake perfumes and jeans.

I agree the hucksters needed to be taken down.  I agree that the Homeland Security people are more use doing that than sitting about playing pocket billiards.  But what does bother me is that its called "Homeland Security" and its being used for routine police work.  

If they had done the same raid and never once mentioned terrorism or Homeland Security, no-one would object.

Severian's point in making the post is that petty crime is being attacked by elite anti-terrorist forces backed by the Patriot Act.  I'm sure you can see why that is a bad thing.

The other guys piling in saying this proves that all police action is evil and illegitimate? Ignore them.

The former, however if the former involves the latter then the jurisdiction is easily expanded. As the article states, the DHS obtained the necessary warrants before proceeding.

Which ones? The ones involving terrorists?

Or trademark violations?

DHS are the police when it involves crimes such as these. Its one of the main reasons the department was created.



Lol, try again?

So should you.

Busting local kiosks should be done by local police after their done busting everyone for city infractions.

Counterfeit items are a danger in and of themselves. They are often made without industry regulations (because the manufactureres are illegal in the first place). The DHS handled the situation because the operation behind the counterfeit items may have also been a terrorist organization. What exactly is your problem with any of that?

Whats next the internet has terrorists dealing in bitcoins. Uh OH

Why is this being made about me? This is about DHS busting trademark infringers and claiming that they could fund terrorism as the excuse.

Which contradicts your title.


You've already been backed into a wall and given up once, this must mean its happening again?


This is correct, but irrelevant. My previous statement remains to be correct. Make sure you know the English language before you make posts in it.

One word is all it takes to make a lie.

DHS puts out their explanations of "could fund terrorism" for the average Joe, not for those in the DHS.


Yes, but it would be nice if you helped.

Please point out where I claimed that. I also suggest looking up the definition of the word "police."


What the "average joe" thinks is irrelevant. Are you trying to make an intelligent discussion or are you just trying to bullshit the "average joe"? The latter seems more likely.

The difference between the government claiming that something "could fund terrorism" or that something "funds terrorism" is so slight as to be non-existent. If the DHS publicly claimed that AzureEngineer "could be a pedophile" or that AzureEngineer "is a pedophile" after raiding your house, do you think that the average Joe would see a difference?

Nope.

So now you're claiming it wasn't DHS?

One word is all it takes to make the truth a lie. The real question is why was the title "Police seize counterfeit goods from stores" not chosen? The answer is obvious: because the truth is boring.

Well, given that they're doing it wholesale, and this is just one tiny fudge, aren't there bigger fish to fry? I mean, all he did was leave out "could."

Lying is not acceptable, whether it is done by the government or by you. Every one of these threads you make obfuscates real issues. You dilute an otherwise serious topic by adding bias and lies.

Every time you make up garbage, you cause more and more people to assume that you and people like you make up garbage. I'm all for criticizing the government, but you're doing it in the wrong manner.

Out of curiosity, is defending the honor of DHS a hobby or a job?

Those two choices do not contradict one another and are not mutually exclusive. You're title still says the DHS claimed the products "fund terrorists." That is a lie.

Well, you know how those shopkeepers terrorists are. You need 5, maybe 6 dozen fully-armed and armored troops.

Since you keep moving the goalposts, your actual issue with the article is hard to ascertain: it's either a lie or I should be glad that DHS shut down a possible terrorist funding operation.

Which is it?

how do you raid a mall kiosk?

No, it still is. It is not only sensational, it is a complete lie.

This has absolutely nothing to do with counterfeit goods. It's about whether or not items are being sold underground. All sorts of products make it 'underground' -- not limited to merchants who report them stolen (for insurance purposes), and then sell them. Or it could be service members buying things tax-free in bulk at their 'commissaries', and attempting to make a profit reselling them. These items aren't the least-bit fake.  If you don't have a receipt trail, with all the 'i's dotted, and T's crossed, you can expect this sort of harassment.

This would normally be an FBI matter, or even local police. But local police and FBI are much more restrained in what they can do in such cases. But Homeland Security is able to dig much more deeply into your life -- without warrant or cause -- in dragnet types of investigations.

US Tax law currently mandates income taxes -- even on income from bitcoin sales.  Local taxes generally also apply -- insisting on the tax on the dollar value equivalent for the item being sold for bitcoins.  If you're dealing in large numbers of items, through bitcoin, and you aren't paying taxes, don't be surprised when they investigate you using 'counterfeiting laws' -- and confiscate your goods at customs or other shipping facilities.

Spot on. Furtherly, terrorists breathe, anyone that breathes may be a terrorist.

The logic of government is pretty simple.

Terrorists speed, therefor speeders may be terrorists, therefor DHS has jurisdiction. Did I get that right?

Ah. Now the title isn't sensational.

This is sensationalist as well. Depending on the counterfeiter, counterfeit items can be quite dangerous, as most cut costs by not abiding by health and safety standards. Saying counterfeit items are bad because it hurts corporations is silly.


Would you prefer the government allow what could be a terrorist fund to continue unabated? You're not making a whole lot of sense.

They can't even do that right.

To repeat, since you seem made of dense stuff: DHS claimed it could be funding terrorist networks. They used the excuse, not me.

Only if it pertains to misdeeds of government.

Much. 

Or maybe: "Homeland security now enforcing trademark law."

"Homeland Security does wellness check for corporate trademarks, naughty people found"

Is this better?

No where in the article did any authority claim that the goods "fund terrorists." It states that they are sure it is organized crime that "could be terrorists." OP put words where they didn't exist solely to garner attention to an otherwise boring news article.


Then you didn't read the article.


This is how things get out of control. Rather than read the article you prefer to read the title that the OP made up and then fan the flames by making more things up. Good job being a sheep.

It's not the seizure of counterfeit goods that's the problem - it's the sowing of FUD by tying it (everything?) to terrorism. 

Terrorists eat food, right?  Shut down the farms!

This just in: The truth is now sensationalist.

There is nothing wrong with seizing counterfeit products. Your sensationalist title skews the issue.

Now that is fucked up.

Of course, the problem is they went to the wrong shops.  A trip to the cookware section to confiscate pressure cookers would inconvenience far more terrorists.

Homeland Security raids mall kiosks

    Ed Drantch
    Posted by: Emily Lenihan

AMHERST, N.Y. (WIVB) - Homeland Security investigators walked out with bags and boxes full of suspected counterfeit goods, after a raid at the Boulevard Mall. They seized cell phone cases and other merchandise that they believe violate trademark, copyright and intellectual property patents.

Three different kiosks were raided at the Boulevard Mall, late Monday morning. At the same time, stores were being raided at the Walden Galleria, in Cheektowaga.  Investigators served several search warrants there, seizing similar goods.

These warrants come after undercover agents purchased goods from these stores.  Investigators say these items were deemed fake by industry experts.

Homeland Security investigators say it is vital they stop the sale of these suspected counterfeit goods, because money spent could be going toward criminal networks.  Terrorist networks, HSI says, could be selling knock off goods to make money.

www.wivb.com/dpp/news/crime/homeland-security-raids-mall-kiosks