Topic: How about we steer the value of a Bitcoin? (Read 2416 times)

They do this w penny stocks all the time.   It wouldn't surprise me if MtGox did this to lure in bagholders. Since BTC exchanges aren't regulated by SEC and you can be somewhat anonymous. Why not? Good scam

Mark explaining his method for steering the value of all Bitcoins?

We're not talking about established currencies though, are we? We're talking about a cryptocoin trying to change the way in which we transact. If you want to drive the price up then you need adoption in the longer term, whether that is established within a niche or wider scale.

Bitcoin is just the beginning !
the value of a BTC will raise up once the recognition by merchants

Sure just show me the non-provisional trade platform so we can make the deal. And show me how many people are trading on that platform... its meaningless if we trade between each other in secrecy. That would need to happen on the living market so all other traders there could se how expensive is to buy 1BTC Now you get the point?

What if I say "sell my bitcoin for $10000", and someone reply me in the next post saying "buy your bitcoin for $10000"...and we will repeat it again and again in this thread....

OP, would you spend $10000 for 1 bitcoin then?

That's not true. Price of a currency is always driven in short term that eventualy will be reflected in the long term. Public adoption has nothing to do with it. Why do people buy Yen for $ for example if they live in USA and there is no market adoption for Yen in USA? By buyng Yen for $ they increase the price of a Yen and decrease the value of a $ in short term transactions. If they bought for example half of total Yen supply for a $, that would skyrocket JPY/USD price.

So everything is about the VOLUME, not the amount of transactions.

Perfectly expressed

"Every market manipulation trick can be discovered just by looking at the history of Wall Street.  We don't want to become Wall Street 2.0 or worse"

This just isn't practical and won't work. Maybe there is some point that you are trying to make by this suggestion, maybe you are trolling, or maybe we're giving you too much credit lol.

Unfortunately for this concept there are many more people in the market, and they will collectively, through speculation (and manipulation) drive the price of Bitcoin within the short-term. Over the longer term it is Bitcoin's public and commercial adoption that will drive its price, in value.

I did some price manipulation experiments with Dogecoin.
Bought up the sell orders sold those to the buyers rinsed and repeated followed by putting up my own buy orders to close the gap I created.
I got back what I put into the manipulation after via arbitrage and pulling my buy orders.

It was interesting and fun eating up 1 btc worth of sells with only 0.1 btc.

Yeah, the OP hasn't reinvented the wheel. Every market manipulation trick can be discovered just by looking at the history of Wall Street.  We don't want to become Wall Street 2.0 or worse

People are still thinking in Bitcoin x Dollar...if you trust Bitcoin for the long run, forget about this relation...

You've just re-invented the "pump and dump". Except you don't have the final step, where both parties sell the thing to new suckers at the inflated price and exit. It's a criminal offence in the US.

This has a long history. In the US, it usually involves "pink sheet" stocks, which are very thinly traded. So a little buying can move the price a lot. The SEC puts a few dozen people a year in jail for that.

Quite possibly. Since Mt. Gox stopped allowing withdrawals, it's mostly the same money going round and round there.

And that market only consists of the two people lol.



lol.  


Well said.

I wouldn't take his idea too seriously. It doesn't deserve serious attention.

It's probably you.

Where are you doing these trades? Just between the two of you? How are you going to convince other people that the price you set is the leading price? Just posting "guys, we just exchanged 10K BTC of volume at a price of $1000" isn't going to convince anyone.

If you're going to do it at an exchange, you might first want to research how exchanges and orderbooks work. You can't just trade there at $1000 while there's a huge list of orders between the current price and $1000.

IDK if some people on this forum are actualy retarded or is it me?

Dude... srsly. If you trade some volume from place to place using higher than average exchange rate, dont you realize that this will drive average price UP? If you posess some Bitcoin it means you are giving yourself profit because you are raising the price of your bitcoin! Is this so hard to understand??

And why would you want to do this? I don't think someone is going to create a website just so you can play this out .....

I have a better idea..Get a site and start selling another commodity on there that would go up in value, driven by the demand and use BTC as the medium for the purchasing and trading of this asset. It should be a finite asset, something that could be very valuable like adding ad revenue to back up the asset then that would drive up the price of BTC organically.

Yes i realise that market steering like that could be senteced to life prison. Im not saying im going to do this... It's just a concept that i threw in. Did you noticed anything strange about bitcoin behavior in november and april 2013?

Look at the volume pushed through the market... did you noticed how overpriced the trasactions were?

Have you ever heard that some wealthy billionare threw some national bank to its knees by just pushing some huge amount of money through forex exchange? Was he sentenced to jail? No...

Food for thought:
a) If you have one bitcoin, that is 1/21mln part of all bitcoin capital that will ever exist on the market... If you consider global wealth and try to estimate it just for US, it will be something around M3 definition. M3 is M2+something more than M2 i assume. If M2 is 10,2 trillion USD and M1 is 1,2 trillion, So M3 (total USD) would be (10,2/1,2)*10,2=86,7T$ (http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm)
b) If you assume that other countries have 10 times more wealth in total, compared to USA wealth (take saudi arabia for example, they sure have a lot of money, maybe as much as half of USA) you can make a conclusion that total world wealth translated to $ i 860,7T$.
c) If George Soros was able to throw down bank of England because of his one billion of dollars (that is 1/860700 of global wealth) are you able to throw down the bank of england by trading on bitcoin volume that would be equvalent of 1 billion dollars?
d) How much you would have to trade to throw down all the banks?

"steer" and "value" between 2 or more people begins to feel like sketchy collusion and potential prison sentences.

Mt.Gox has been doing this for years. 

You do understand that this would only work if those two people are literally the only two people trading on that exchange?

I think you're trolling; that's just a guess though.

So you want someone to set up a fee-less exchange whose only participants are those that trade their own capital at a net sum of zero?

How does it even benefit these two parties colluding together? Do you think this will drive up the market price on other exchanges? Is that the point you're trying to make?

So lets imagine two people buys 2 bitcoins each. I buy 2 bitcoins and you buy 2 bitcoins.

- Lets say current bitcoin price is 900$
- I sell you my bitcoin for say... 1000$
- You have 3 bitcoins now and -1000$. And i have your 1000$ but just 1 bitcoin
- Now lets say You sell me yor bitcoin for 1000$
- Now i have +0$ and again we both have 2 bitcoins and you have +0$.
- Now we repeat these steps over and over again... market average will show bitcoin price moving up...
- We can repeat until infinity until market average equals our trade...

We have just set a new market price for bitcoin.

We both now have 2 bitcoins each but we both earned 100$ for each bitcoin we had in the beginning.

Its totaly doable because of the small volume exchange/day on the market. 1 Bitcoin traiding back and forth can set up the new price level!

Everything cool but we will need a currency exchange without any provision!

Can someone please create a website simillar to other currency exchange platforms that will enable stuff above to happen?