Topic: How are bitcoin and alt price charts connected? (Read 347 times)

This is also still a misery to me and your write up has typically expressed my mind completely about the situation. Most of us just see altcoins move along with bitcoin, and most especially altcoins at the top marketcap, but we have not really wondered the relationship between them. Some even believe that people sell altcoins during bitcoin bull to buy bitcoin, but if they do, alts are meant to dump, but instead, they are pumping.

The only explanation I could just get for this is that when people see that bitcoin has started performing, they quickly join the train so they don’t miss out and in the process of doing so, they also feel like diversifying, which their focus will be on coin at the top market since they are still the only alts that are following bitcoin run for now.

Usually it is old coins or maybe coins that have a lot of community on it. On tokens, i not really see but not want to take a risk invest in there in market because there are a lot of chance that price can be up and down very fast.

maybe not all altcoins will move together, I think as said above, maybe only what is true when exchanging uses bitcoin so it is clear that if the bitcoin moves down and rises it will impact directly because of that.

"1.All the traders have to buy altcoins with btc."

Where the fuck have you been the last couple years? this hasn't been the case for a long time - people have access to the top 20+ coins just as easily as access to bitcoin now.

"2.The crypto whales are pumping altcoin prices by buying altcoins with btc."

This does not in any way explain why nearly all coins follow WITH bitcoin price movies, and they all seem to go up and down at very similar rates. No, whales are not pumping alts with bitcoin - what's more likely happening is these coins aren't being pumped at all, rather they automatically go up because they maintain their btc pairing value through some automatic process.

"3.Cryptocurrency exchange platforms are pumping the altcoin prices by faking trading volumes and other price manipulations."

This has absolutely nothing to do with my question, you have a comprehension problem.
And you call my question stupid.

You are asking a pretty stupid question.There are 3 answers:
1.All the traders have to buy altcoins with btc.
2.The crypto whales are pumping altcoin prices by buying altcoins with btc.
3.Cryptocurrency exchange platforms are pumping the altcoin prices by faking trading volumes and other price manipulations.

This has a lot to do with learning to understand the market, that is, there are many things and details that altcoins, tokens, follow, the first thing to understand is that bitcoin is the leading currency, it is the currency that gives and dictates the road, and all the altcoins, absolutely all depend on bitcoin, because there is no altcoin that has a life of its own.

When the bitcoin falls in price, the altcoins go down, this can happen because those who have altcoins directly affect the price of their altcoins, it is normal, then the price of their coins are much lower than before, which can produce concern, but because of volatility is something that turns out to be normal.

When the bitcoin increases in price, the altcoins receive a certain price drop, this is because those who have the altcoins tend to sell them so that they are left with bitcoin and thus do not miss the bitcoin movement, since bitcoin when it raises generates much more profits than the same altcoin.

When bitcoin enters the bullish trend, the altcoins begin to rise little by little, that is to say, when the price rises, the altcoins have their tendency to fall, but to the market to be in trend the altcoins begin to follow the bullish road that takes bitcoin , this occurs by natural market action and those who have bitcoin take part of their money in altcoins, because they know that the altcoins are cheaper, they can go up to 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x and thus generate much more benefits. I think this is why as altcoins follow the price of bitcoin, somehow all follow the path of bitcoin.

Alt coin owners cherish their coins in bitcoin price. So if it is 0.1 it is 0.1 BTC. when Bitcoin goes up in USD then when alt is 0.1 BTC it also goes up in USD.

Mostly happened, each time bitcoin pumped that hard most of the alts are being pumped as well, supporters who earned from bitcoin investment will make some moves for their favorite alts and make a good run to it, diversion becomes very usual inside this market.

Bitcoin break the silence and all the existing quality projects will make good bounce.

I can see that this topic is relevant to what is happening with the market, especially its trends.
I have never use a data yet to analyze this but based on my observation, I am seeing that when altcoins rise, altcoins will also follow.

At the earlier stage before the 2017 bull run, I noticed that when bitcoin pump, altcoins will dump, and they do the opposite most of the time.
Maybe that time people have equal trust on bitcoin and the altcoins market, and ICO projects that time are also strong unlike now, they are not selling anymore.

The price movement is just temporary, but if we will look at the general view, we will clearly see that when bitcoin rises, altcoins always do follow.

Shitcoins? Of course they also do follow, we have a lot of shitcoins in the market waiting for the right timing, there are people who pump it, and there are people who got FOMO on this, it's a normal thing, they'll never ceased to exist here.

Alts are very strongly traded against BTC, so if we imagine that alts are pegged to BTC at some fixed price that would mean that alts will mimic all Bitcoin's price changes one to one. On practice there's a lot of deviation from this, but the core idea holds true - alts will always move in the same direction that Bitcoin does. The most common pattern is that Bitcoin rises and alts rise too, but slowly (which means that their BTC price tanks), but then they catch up when BTC fixates on a new level. When BTC crashes, alts crash even harder, and then rebound a bit when BTC stops falling.

It's very simple and logically correct if you see in the right perspective of analyzing the price of both Bitcoins and rest of the altcoins.
First of all when the price of Bitcoin increases the price of altcoins too increases due to demand.
As All the altcoins including Bitcoins follow the policy of supply and demand, therefore this thing happens.
Hope you got something cleared in your mind.

Exactly.  There are so many people running bots (just look at all the fractional trading happening, that's not people selling and buying.  Its across most every coin so when markets start to heat up or cool and more buys or sells come on one sided, it triggers bots to move the price.  That's why it seems to be synchronized

The crypto markets are way more algo driven than a few years ago. I could be wrong but I think it just looks synchronized because the trading algos and bots being run on exchanges today are much, much faster than they used to be. Years ago it was all humans manually trading and some really crappy bots.

But by and large I'm thinking the altcoin markets are still just reacting to moves in the BTC market.

You make excellent points, all of which I agree with. However, you and nobody else has answered my question - why do the alts go up when the bitcoin price goes up and why do they all fall when the bitcoin price falls? It's not like a chain reaction, they all seem to move together like it's synchronized. How is this possible? I just want to understand the mechanics of it, wtf is happening on the exchanges for this all to happen at once? It just makes no sense to me.

This type of relationship has always existed; it's not something that sprung up in 2017. Bitcoin and altcoins have always been correlated. This dynamic was definitely present during the 2013-2014 market too. But back in the 2013 bubble there were only 50-100 altcoins at the time. The dominance/market share we see today probably has more to do with the proliferation of thousands of altcoins with inflated supplies than anything else.


Altcoins are bullish for Bitcoin. Altcoin speculation pulls thousands and thousands of liquid BTC off the fiat markets. Altcoin speculators buy BTC off fiat order books to trade against altcoins = increased demand for BTC and lower available supply. All the bitcoins trading in the BTC/altcoin markets aren't available to be dumped on the BTC/fiat markets.

Going through the comparison between the growth chart of bitcoin and other top altcoins in the market it can be easily found. Maybe the growth percentage will vary, but there is true growth with bitcoins and altcoins at the same time. As in the quote there will be significant price jumps between the two and mostly growth of bitcoin is followed by altcoins.

If alts dump, especially the shitcoins bitcoin does not really move with it.  Conversely when bitcoin moves in big jumps or drops it has a significant effect on the alt prices and volume.  Most people are in a hold pattern but wake up when btc moves.

Because its related to Bitcoin being the market leader in terms of market share. Being the leader in the market can give a certain influence on everything around it since it signifies the greater portion of the money involved in the crypto market. Price movements tend to reflect what BTC is doing since generally when BTC is bullish all other altcoins are following suit as it signifies the market being bullish as well.  Other than the influence you must take note that  having the biggest market share only means it is holding the largest sum of money in the market , that is why  it has a big influence around it.

Yes, I see that - it's obvious. The question I'm asking is why? And if this continues, the only way bitcoin will cross $100k is to drag all these shitcoin marketcaps with it, won't that make it much more difficult? So much more money needs to enter the crypto space, seems such a waste of new money entering the space on all these worthless shitcoins with no purpose.
The #2 coin, eth for example, no longer has the only thing it is good for - creating scam icos. Wtf purpose does even have now? and who the hell is buying that rather than bitcoin, which obviously has so much more going on?

Bitcoin price and altcoin price is strongly connected as you can see every pairing in exchange of altcoins is with Bitcoin.
So when bitcoin price fluctuates it can impact directly altcoins. I hope it helps, I tried to give an explanation with simple words.

It is because of the technology that all of them get their project from which bitcoin happens to be the first. The blockchain technology binds all cryptocurrency together. I might be wrong but not totally wrong, but this is what I think in my opinion.

Yes, but why do the alts go up and down in usd whenever bitcoin makes significant usd price moves? Wouldn't it make more sense for the coins to go up and down independantly? I mean, why does ethereum for example go up in usd at all when bitcoin goes up in usd? I seem to be missing something for this to make sense. I don't really follow the stock market, do all the biggest stocks tend to go up and down in unison also?

There is one important thing you are missing here.
When you see that all coins are either green or red, it is because you are viewing their value in 'USD' on CoinMarketCap.
Now when the price of Bitcoin rise, other coins usually remain stable or fall. But since the value of Bitcoin is increasing in terms of USD, value of alts also seem like increasing.
I give you example. Suppose Bitcoin is $8000 and Ethereum is 0.03 BTC or $240. Now Bitcoin increases by $300 and reaches $8300 and ETH falls to 0.029 because investors put their money out of ETH and put it in BTC. Now, in reality ETH price has fallen but when you view it on CoinMarketCap in 'USD' market, it will show ETH value in green too becuase in terms of USD, it has risen by $0.7.
So whenever Bitcoin goes up, just compare the percentage of rise with other alts. Usually the percentage of rise of other coins is lower than bitcoin.

But what does this have to do with price moves that have all coins moving in concert at the same time?

They are connected because most of altcoins are traded with bitcoin, and people ussually exchange bitcoin for altcoins or altcoin for bitcoin, and the price of altcoins goes down because now most altcoins was selled for bitcoin.

The whales do swaps between bitcoin and the major altcoins, that is, ethereum, litecoin, dash, monero and ripple. From these they do swaps with the other altcoins, and from these back to bitcoin.

The swaps are probably timed between the whales. In altcoin markets is very common to have pump and dump groups, which are very restricted (those from discord are scams). The money these groups make on the altcoin markets flows back to bitcoin, increasing its price while the alts go down. Then they repeat the process.

This can only work in bull markets, as in bear markets they would need to sell leased coins, or deal with derivatives, and only a few exchanges allows that.

Thats why Im not a fanatical maximalist. Although I only hold bitcoin and a few litecoin, Im not going to dismiss the altcoins for their use.

Before 2017, bitcoin had most of the cryptocap market share, something like 80-90%. When an alt pumped, bitcoin price typicially didn't budge. Now, when one of the major coins move they all move with it. My first question is how is this happening? when the demand for bitcoin goes up and the price goes up, why are pretty much the top 50 coins going up as well? Same with when the price goes down. I don't believe that people all of a sudden put money into all the coins at once, something else is going on maybe someone can explain?
The main point of concern I have is that if this continues, it's going to be hard to get bitcoin price into 6 figures because of all these stupid shitcoins that have to get dragged along with it.
How and why is this an all or nothing game? Thoughts?