How are people getting their Trade Information with everything so slow?

muyuu

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Quote from: bzzard on March 07, 2013, 03:34:06 PM

Quote from: Bitobsessed on March 07, 2013, 11:57:44 AM

I agree. I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing.

Good point - there ya go: http://btccharts.com/forum/index.php?topic=447.msg620

Quote from: Bitobsessed on March 07, 2013, 11:57:44 AM

Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

...rrrright! Cheesy

Well, with bitcoin-analytics I know what I'd be paying for and btccharts tries to lure me into registering only to tell me afterwards that it's a pay site and I cannot even get a glimpse of the service. That kind of scumbag behaviour puts me off, so bitcoin-analytics it is for now.

baggyp

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 07, 2013, 02:03:33 PM

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

Well by definition they are newbs. Maybe not 'n00bz' but the panic sellers are often those who haven't watched the coin long enough to know daily ups and downs are our bread and butter.

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

Absolutely. The bitcoin has such strong momentum that smart traders with deep pockets have recognized that movement in either direction often takes a while to stop. Long enough for them to capitalize.

Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 12:48:01 PM

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 12:33:46 PM

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Without many scalpers who have their orders on both sides of the book (real orders from real scalpers with the intention to be filled, not fake and bait orders from quote stuffers), orders that absorb parts of the panic-volume (and convert the loss of the n00bs into profits for themselves) it would drop even faster and much further on every temporary panic event.

I think you are pretty right here. It's nearly habitual.

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 12:33:46 PM

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look ~~silly~~ fucking terrifying and wonderous to behold to outsiders.

FTFY

bzzard

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Quote from: Bitobsessed on March 07, 2013, 11:57:44 AM

I agree. I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing.

Good point - there ya go: http://btccharts.com/forum/index.php?topic=447.msg620

Quote from: Bitobsessed on March 07, 2013, 11:57:44 AM

Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

...rrrright! Cheesy

humanitee

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 07, 2013, 02:27:03 PM

Day traders who go against the short-term trend reduce volatility.
People who "play the breakout" (without waiting for a pull-back) or "trade in the current direction" are likely to increase volatility.

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

...scalpers increase volatility...

"Scalpers" (by definition) would both buy and sell within a short time/price move, how exactly does that increase volatility? Wink

Who can fuck each other the hardest, that's how.
"You sold yours now? I'll sell mine below you and hope someone sells below me. We'll scalp together bro!"

I hope the strong hands caught the fall.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Day traders who go against the short-term trend reduce volatility.
People who "play the breakout" (without waiting for a pull-back) or "trade in the current direction" are likely to increase volatility.

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

...scalpers increase volatility...

"Scalpers" (by definition) would both buy and sell within a short time/price move, how exactly does that increase volatility? Wink

crazy_rabbit

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Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 02:08:26 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 07, 2013, 02:03:33 PM

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

Nice response. I agree on most counts.

As a veteran at this point (lol) I just expect Gox to break during episodes like this. I hope Coinlab can step it up.
I still think those panicking are noobs. Cheesy

Thanks, I was typing fast and I realize that was nearly incomprehensible due to mistakes. :-)

humanitee

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 07, 2013, 02:03:33 PM

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

Nice response. I agree on most counts.

As a veteran at this point (lol) I just expect Gox to break during episodes like this. I hope Coinlab can step it up.
I still think those panicking are noobs. Cheesy

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 01:04:20 PM

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

humanitee

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I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

prof7bit

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https://youengine.io/

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 12:33:46 PM

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Without many scalpers who have their orders on both sides of the book (real orders from real scalpers with the intention to be filled, not fake and bait orders from quote stuffers), orders that absorb parts of the panic-volume (and convert the loss of the n00bs into profits for themselves) it would drop even faster and much further on every temporary panic event.

humanitee

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Scalping is pretty much speculating. My statement stands.

muyuu

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Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 12:29:48 PM

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 09:28:52 AM

Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 08:52:06 AM

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

I have smoked some basic logic: Scalping is converting volatility into profit (for the scalper). Since there is no such thing as a perpetuum mobile it must therefore *reduce* volatility until no profit can be made from it anymore.

Generally I'd agree. But too much of a good thing can be bad.

Too many people are fucking obsessed in scalping a few satoshis and they don't do anything else that could benefit the community a lot more.

Sure they are free to try, but what we're seeing is the market telling them this is a competitive market already and there is lower hanging fruit elsewhere. Getting wiped months of profits in one go is the invisible hand of the market pointing you the way and telling you to fuck off.

Attacks are part of the market too aren't they.

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 12:33:46 PM

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look silly to outsiders.

Well, that's not scalping. I think you are referring to HFT in general.

humanitee

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Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look silly to outsiders.

prof7bit

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https://youengine.io/

Quote from: humanitee on March 07, 2013, 09:28:52 AM

Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 08:52:06 AM

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

I have smoked some basic logic: Scalping is converting volatility into profit (for the scalper). Since there is no such thing as a perpetuum mobile it must therefore *reduce* volatility until no profit can be made from it anymore.

Bitobsessed

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Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 10:48:35 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on March 07, 2013, 10:07:14 AM

you guys should try btccharts.com. it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday. lots of great features too.

Can't try for free.

Just wasted time choosing a login/pass, activating it by email and then it tells me the pricing.

That kind of shit doesn't fly with me. If you're going to charge me tell me how much beforehand so I make a decision and don't waste my time.

I agree. I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing. Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

muyuu

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Quote from: cypherdoc on March 07, 2013, 10:07:14 AM

you guys should try btccharts.com. it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday. lots of great features too.

Can't try for free.

Just wasted time choosing a login/pass, activating it by email and then it tells me the pricing.

That kind of shit doesn't fly with me. If you're going to charge me tell me how much beforehand so I make a decision and don't waste my time.

cypherdoc

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you guys should try btccharts.com. it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday. lots of great features too.

humanitee

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Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 08:52:06 AM

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

muyuu

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Quote from: prof7bit on March 07, 2013, 09:00:53 AM

Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 08:52:06 AM

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Nothing wrong with it, except having a good deal of the bitcoin community obsessed with it and neglecting the rest of the activity, including many tasks that are still pending. And obviously real btc-for-goods/services commerce.

prof7bit

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Quote from: muyuu on March 07, 2013, 08:52:06 AM

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

muyuu

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Good.

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Hopefully a bunch of smallish cunts will get wiped and then retire from this.

prof7bit

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 06, 2013, 06:32:38 PM

ClarkMoody isn't even loading for me anymore at all. Not Mt.Gox live. I see it's all going down, but I have no idea about anything. What are people using for data?

if you have Linux or Unix you might want to try this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ncurses-based-mtgox-live-monitor-and-trading-bot-framework-148462

it can be configured to use the plain old websockets protocol (ClarkMoody is connecting to MtGox using their newer (but more unreliable) socketio server)

I have had it running yesterday all the time and it did not disconnect me, I could watch the entire drama (the slow-motion replay of orders that were already 20 minutes old) from beginning to end.

Unfortunately being able to watch what is going on there won't help you with the giant order-lag on MtGox, if you want to place an order you will also need access to a time-machine to look 20 Minutes into the future to find the right price for your order at the time it will be activated.

BIGMERVE

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Quote from: evolve on March 06, 2013, 11:33:35 PM

I use http://bitcoinity.org/markets quick price data and bitcoincharts (which seems to be down) for historical data and charting.

Just hit refresh once or twice and it works fine.

evolve

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daytrader/superhero

I use http://bitcoinity.org/markets quick price data and bitcoincharts (which seems to be down) for historical data and charting.

Mushoz

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Bitbuy

Quote from: Math Man on March 06, 2013, 10:55:00 PM

Quote from: marhjan on March 06, 2013, 06:51:44 PM

...several relatively minor web companies (Wordpress, Namecheap etc) accepting btc.

Are you stuck in the age of AOL dial-up? Wordpress is ranked in the top 25 websites in the world. It's not exactly in a list of "minor web companies."

And Namecheap is in the top-1000. Not exactly minor either

bb113

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Just place your asks more than 1% higher than your sells when this happens

sounds

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1221iZanNi5igK7oAA7AWmYjpsyjsRbLLZ

Wrote my own bot that talks socket.io in C, and as an aside shows market depth and trade history.

Now writing one that talks FIX.

Math Man

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Quote from: marhjan on March 06, 2013, 06:51:44 PM

...several relatively minor web companies (Wordpress, Namecheap etc) accepting btc.

Are you stuck in the age of AOL dial-up? Wordpress is ranked in the top 25 websites in the world. It's not exactly in a list of "minor web companies."

Cluster2k

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The interesting thing for me is that MtGox's Lag-o-meter fell from 10 minutes to under a minute as the price crawled up to $45. Then there was another plunge and giant swing with lag above 5 minutes again. Whoever is doing this is very deliberate about it and getting the results they want.

tickets

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loving this rocket ride!

The volume on mtgox has been huge - my sense is that several large buyers have been coming in with about $2 to $3m/day accumulating in advance of the move to Silicon Valley Bank backing, when much larger sums will suddenly be much safer...

To answer your questions, though - try installing one of the bitcoin widgets on your smartphone... those are hitting mtgox API server for apps which is very responsive. I'm probably going to develop my own version of a streaming ticker so some folks can use that --- it'll be focused on detecting volume and book balance spikes though, which is what I sometimes trade...

I may also wire up an audible monitor by resurrecting an old site of mine called quotezart.... hit me up if you're interested.

marhjan

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Poorer than I ought to be

This is exactly why those of us with bearish sentiments have been bearish. Bitcoin is STILL not ready for prime time - yes it's come a long way since the 2011 novelty bubble, but the bullish sentiment that pervades this forum is WAY overexcited about several relatively minor web companies (Wordpress, Namecheap etc) accepting btc. TBH there still isn't really that much you can do with btc that is actually EASIER than using fiat currency. Yes, I know there are some specialized uses (SR and transfer of money across international borders with little to no fees) but otherwise btc is still a geek-niche. Longterm, I expect btc or some other cryptocurrency with surpass fiat, but people were getting much much too excited IMHO.

Proper value is likely around $15-20USD currently, after an initial correction down to $8.50 or so. Trust me, I've read the tea leaves and consulted the appropriate astrological charts or something... ;-)

crazy_rabbit

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god this is stupid. You can't get any data, everything is like mud, nothing is accurate and gox doesn't respond. Seriously.

Severian

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Looks like tomorrow might be a good day to buy. : )

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: Severian on March 06, 2013, 06:38:02 PM

I'm seeing 43.99 as last in a desktop app that pulls from gox.

Also not accurate. Sheez!

Severian

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I'm seeing 43.99 as last in a desktop app that pulls from gox.

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: keewee on March 06, 2013, 06:34:26 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 06, 2013, 06:32:38 PM

ClarkMoody isn't even loading for me anymore at all. Not Mt.Gox live. I see it's all going down, but I have no idea about anything. What are people using for data?

I've got both running right now. Took a few refreshes though

CM does't seem accurate. MtGox rate is different.

sgbett

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I am currently using a willow rod. Lots of incense too, you can never have enough of it.

keewee

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Quote from: crazy_rabbit on March 06, 2013, 06:32:38 PM

ClarkMoody isn't even loading for me anymore at all. Not Mt.Gox live. I see it's all going down, but I have no idea about anything. What are people using for data?

I've got both running right now. Took a few refreshes though

crazy_rabbit

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RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

ClarkMoody isn't even loading for me anymore at all. Not Mt.Gox live. I see it's all going down, but I have no idea about anything. What are people using for data?

Topic: How are people getting their Trade Information with everything so slow? (Read 2568 times)