Topic: How can casinos profit from investments? (Read 2244 times)
casino very much benefit from the investment, usually admin make money from the investment capital to play a game that can generate greater profits, but if he fails to make these investments become very large capital, that is where sometimes there is a scam or adminnya run gambling sites that he made
Casino investment is known as bankroll and if casino can get funds from investor then they will be happy to give some % of house edge to them. You may see how moneypot gambling sites work. They can earn profit without risk and their own bankroll.
There are so many people starting a gambling site. Before you can start one you need to have a huge amount of money right? because if the first visitor on your site wins 10000usd the first time he gamble. Then your screwed if you dont have that.
casino will always profit big time from the addicted gamblers when they gamble with all they have.
For Bitcoin casinos, the system will automatically take a portion of the earnings for themselves during a specified time or when the user decides to divest.
For casinos that have POS coins, they can choose to also charge the user for their staked coins. Justdice does this.
For casinos that have POS coins, they can choose to also charge the user for their staked coins. Justdice does this.
I thought those wallets were locked and not allowed for POS. I didn't know JustDice does that.
I believe bankroll 'investments' are allowed by the casinos to spread their risks. Instead of them being hurt huge when someone wins big time they simply spread the losses to everyone else. The same way when someone losses big time too, it's a win-win.
For Bitcoin casinos, the system will automatically take a portion of the earnings for themselves during a specified time or when the user decides to divest.
For casinos that have POS coins, they can choose to also charge the user for their staked coins. Justdice does this.
For casinos that have POS coins, they can choose to also charge the user for their staked coins. Justdice does this.
They get more bankroll and more whales will play at their site, creating a larger chance for more profit.
Yes, all casinos need a very large funds to attract more players so they need a lot of investors if they don't have funds and they will share some profits to investors.
The investments are the best way to profit for casino cause they get free 10-20% from investors and nothing to lose unless it's their own funds which were effected due to any sudden high wins.
Yes, all casinos need a very large funds to attract more players so they need a lot of investors if they don't have funds and they will share some profits to investors.
This is not always correct. Having alot of bankroll as well as huge max win is not always the reason for gambler to gamble there. Betking has the highest max win in a single bet around here but still it doesnt attract many players to gamble there. You can check their weekly status here http://dicesites.com/
They get more bankroll and more whales will play at their site, creating a larger chance for more profit.
Yes, all casinos need a very large funds to attract more players so they need a lot of investors if they don't have funds and they will share some profits to investors.
For any casino to run for long time they need a very huge bank roll to run
Some casino run with just a small budget but the problem is that they are just not atttractive enough to get gambler with their small max profit. Getting investment is not about just getting huge bankroll but also to remove the risk so casino can always get a risk free profit for themselves
They get more bankroll and more whales will play at their site, creating a larger chance for more profit.
They share the losses and the wins with their investors, so it is the same reason as they profit at all.
I don't know any casino that will only pay if the house has positive income
I don't know any casino that will only pay if the house has positive income
Eventually they will make a profit. The concept is that when people believe they are winning, they keep playing till they lose their winnings.
If not today, they come back and lose another day.
If not today, they come back and lose another day.
I think the question is how casinos are profiting from investments not how they are profiting?
For any casino to run for long time they need a very huge bank roll to run so if one don't have so much budget than they will ask from public and they will offer some % of there profits to investors. If players win than casino and investors together losing money so in both cases casino have a advantages.
Eventually they will make a profit. The concept is that when people believe they are winning, they keep playing till they lose their winnings.
If not today, they come back and lose another day.
If not today, they come back and lose another day.
Casinos are made to profit, not to offer money to addicted gamblers. Many Casinos are scams but the one's that are not, simply rely on the premise that a gambling addict will always lose. That's how they make money!
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins,
This is very weird statements. The site has nothing to lose because most of the funds will be covered by investor so the site is kind like providing service for investor and keep charging 10 % comission for free and that is totally risk free assuming that the owner of the site has no stake in bankroll
How is that covered by investors? As far as I know investors have +EV when investing in a casino so in the long term they will end up winning more money than loosing.
You have answered this yourself. If investor keep winning alot then the site will as well because the site charge percentage for commission. if a 10 % profit commission then the site take 0.1 for every 1 btc profit so the site get 0.1 btc and the investor will only get 0.9 btc. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Because if there were no investors they wouldn't have to take any commision, they would just take the full amount of the guy who lost without having to give a percent to the investors.
You are not understanding this correctly that by having investment they are limiting the risk for themselves or even eliminate the risk. If they dont have stake in the bankroll then they are getting risk free profit. They are not getting alot but since it is risk free then they dont have to worry about anything if the gambler win alot
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins,
This is very weird statements. The site has nothing to lose because most of the funds will be covered by investor so the site is kind like providing service for investor and keep charging 10 % comission for free and that is totally risk free assuming that the owner of the site has no stake in bankroll
How is that covered by investors? As far as I know investors have +EV when investing in a casino so in the long term they will end up winning more money than loosing.
You have answered this yourself. If investor keep winning alot then the site will as well because the site charge percentage for commission. if a 10 % profit commission then the site take 0.1 for every 1 btc profit so the site get 0.1 btc and the investor will only get 0.9 btc. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Because if there were no investors they wouldn't have to take any commision, they would just take the full amount of the guy who lost without having to give a percent to the investors.
Some people use those bitcoins to invest into others casinos,and some part of them for sure play the pump and dump of others altcoins or even bitcoin,only making profit from the bets with the fees looks too small,i dont know how many bitcoins a casino plays daily,at exchanges the biggest around 1000bitcoins being traded daily.
how casinos make profit is what you're missing. You invest into a casinos bankroll, and let's say you're 20% of the bankroll. You get usually 20% or less of all the casino's profit (no ad profit, just profit of the loss of others)
They make profit by investing their own bitcoin, or they make profit from that difference between your profit share and your investment share mentioned above.
They make profit by investing their own bitcoin, or they make profit from that difference between your profit share and your investment share mentioned above.
Regarding the bold part, a sensible gambling site owner should always set the max profit based on their total bankroll in real time. No matter if they have a big or small bankroll, they could lose some money but will not go bankrupt.
Max profit is usually on the same as the house edge of the games so if there is 100 btc bankroll and 1 % house edge then the max profit you can win in one roll is only 1 btc and so on
Not necessarily. Just-dice, for example, employs 0.5x Kelly by default. So even with a 1% house edge, the max profit is only 0.5% of total bankroll (including the offsite bankroll).
Regarding the bold part, a sensible gambling site owner should always set the max profit based on their total bankroll in real time. No matter if they have a big or small bankroll, they could lose some money but will not go bankrupt.
Max profit is usually on the same as the house edge of the games so if there is 100 btc bankroll and 1 % house edge then the max profit you can win in one roll is only 1 btc and so on
Casinos don't really use investment to make big profit. The main reason for allowing investment is because casinos want to spread the risk to other players. Casinos only take a small cut of any profit from the investment.
This might be true but mostly they want to get more fund just in case someone win big and they still can cover it so the site would not be bankcrupt. They always calculate it well how they will be profit from the investment and from the players too before they open a new casino. Thats why they will never loss
Regarding the bold part, a sensible gambling site owner should always set the max profit based on their total bankroll in real time. No matter if they have a big or small bankroll, they could lose some money but will not go bankrupt.
Casinos don't really use investment to make big profit. The main reason for allowing investment is because casinos want to spread the risk to other players. Casinos only take a small cut of any profit from the investment.
This might be true but mostly they want to get more fund just in case someone win big and they still can cover it so the site would not be bankcrupt. They always calculate it well how they will be profit from the investment and from the players too before they open a new casino. Thats why they will never loss
Casinos don't really use investment to make big profit. The main reason for allowing investment is because casinos want to spread the risk to other players. Casinos only take a small cut of any profit from the investment.
this exactly, the casino takes both a percentage of the profit from player's losses and take a very small percentage cut from each bet, take a look at bitvest for example. in the long run, this should prove less risky and more profitable from the percent cuts for the casino compared to not accepting investments. plus, the prospect of investments attracts many people to a site i would bet. 
Casinos don't really use investment to make big profit. The main reason for allowing investment is because casinos want to spread the risk to other players. Casinos only take a small cut of any profit from the investment.
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins,
This is very weird statements. The site has nothing to lose because most of the funds will be covered by investor so the site is kind like providing service for investor and keep charging 10 % comission for free and that is totally risk free assuming that the owner of the site has no stake in bankroll
How is that covered by investors? As far as I know investors have +EV when investing in a casino so in the long term they will end up winning more money than loosing.
You have answered this yourself. If investor keep winning alot then the site will as well because the site charge percentage for commission. if a 10 % profit commission then the site take 0.1 for every 1 btc profit so the site get 0.1 btc and the investor will only get 0.9 btc. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Maybe dooglus would be so kind to explain the investment system, I'm sure he would explain it very detailed, I'm still confused, people keep saying they charge fees but I don't see how that does anything
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
I think, a casino is a very easy profit fields to find a very big advantage.
because in the casino that has a strategy is the owner and player is a tool to achieve profits that chill by the owner of the casino
They usually charge a commission on gains etc.
Also the owners themselves obviously has investments in the company. They will gain even more with a combined, larger bankroll.
Also the owners themselves obviously has investments in the company. They will gain even more with a combined, larger bankroll.
What is enough babkroll for site? I think that is unlimited/more is better.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
There's no such thing as an unlimited bankroll, but a higher bankroll is definitely better, as if someone gets lucky and wins a lot of money, the site won't go bankrupt and will possibly gain the money back from other users.
Do note that the bigger the bankroll is, the more money you will have to put in to make a profit. If you want to take a bigger risk but gain more profit, invest in a site with a smaller bankroll. If you want to be safer but gain money at a slower rate, invest in a site with a bigger bankroll.
May be there have unlimited bankroll. It means the bankroll will never end although people always winning there. Btw about the invest thing, why we should invest in smaller bankroll? That means it is a new site right? Actually what I know it depends on the percentage that they give to us higher investment sure you got more percentage right? So how do it affect with bankroll?
They can increase their bank roll to allow larger bets.They also usually keep a fee from the investors profit. That way if they profit, both parties profit. But if the investor looses, the house looses nothing.
Can someone actually explain it detailed so I can understand? Repeating stuff that has already been said is not helping me, someone use numbers and explain it to me step by step because I still don't get it
They can increase their bank roll to allow larger bets.They also usually keep a fee from the investors profit. That way if they profit, both parties profit. But if the investor looses, the house looses nothing.
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins,
This is very weird statements. The site has nothing to lose because most of the funds will be covered by investor so the site is kind like providing service for investor and keep charging 10 % comission for free and that is totally risk free assuming that the owner of the site has no stake in bankroll
How is that covered by investors? As far as I know investors have +EV when investing in a casino so in the long term they will end up winning more money than loosing.
casinos gain profit from investments thru fees, some casino takes around .5% - 1% of investors profit every xxx days/months so by that they can pay for all the site's expenses such as domain, hosting and staffs
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins, so they are not getting any profit, they are just simply giving less money to the investor
Nope. The investors' profit does not come from the house, but from the gamblers' loss. Say if a gambler lose 1 btc, the investors will share 0.99 btc and the site will take 0.01 btc as 1% fee.
Isn't that the same? When a gambler loses the casino is supposed to get 1 btc profit but instead they get less because someone invested in the casino.
Investments=bigger bet caps
Bigger bet caps=more earnings
Casinos that allow investments also hold fees from profits of investors (usually) and always are also invested in their platform with own funds.
Bigger bet caps=more earnings
Casinos that allow investments also hold fees from profits of investors (usually) and always are also invested in their platform with own funds.
when the players win, the casino takes the loss from the investor pool. so they have no gain or loss. but if the players loss, they will take commission and the rest is divided among the investor. so it is kind of a win situation for casino. however, usually casino owners r also big investors too.
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins,
This is very weird statements. The site has nothing to lose because most of the funds will be covered by investor so the site is kind like providing service for investor and keep charging 10 % comission for free and that is totally risk free assuming that the owner of the site has no stake in bankroll
casinos gain profit from investments thru fees, some casino takes around .5% - 1% of investors profit every xxx days/months so by that they can pay for all the site's expenses such as domain, hosting and staffs
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins, so they are not getting any profit, they are just simply giving less money to the investor
It looks like your new to gambling. What you said is correct if many users or investors win lot of games but in actual scenario due to house edge players will not win always so gambling house will be the one at the end going to win. I saw only few gambling houses being closed not because of loses but not managing it properly but you can see many gamblers lost the money in casinos. So casinos will be always in profits.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
they get profit on short and long term,they decide it with some deal with the casino,its just what i think,the investor get some profit share from casino,from user on that casino,you know every gamble have lose and fee of witdraw. 
I'm not sure if what I'm going to say is correct, so correct me if I'm wrong. I think investors invest into casinos, so that when the player wins, they are able to pay them out. In the long run the house will always win so gamblers lose money and the house wins, the winning amount (profit) will go back to the investors. I believe the profits will be split between the casino owners as well as their investors.
casinos gain profit from investments thru fees, some casino takes around .5% - 1% of investors profit every xxx days/months so by that they can pay for all the site's expenses such as domain, hosting and staffs
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins, so they are not getting any profit, they are just simply giving less money to the investor
Nope. The investors' profit does not come from the house, but from the gamblers' loss. Say if a gambler lose 1 btc, the investors will share 0.99 btc and the site will take 0.01 btc as 1% fee.
casinos gain profit from investments thru fees, some casino takes around .5% - 1% of investors profit every xxx days/months so by that they can pay for all the site's expenses such as domain, hosting and staffs
But they are still loosing money, if an investor wins 1 bitcoin and they take 1% (0.01) they still have to pay him 0.99 bitcoins, so they are not getting any profit, they are just simply giving less money to the investor
casinos gain profit from investments thru fees, some casino takes around .5% - 1% of investors profit every xxx days/months so by that they can pay for all the site's expenses such as domain, hosting and staffs
What is enough babkroll for site? I think that is unlimited/more is better.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
There's no such thing as an unlimited bankroll, but a higher bankroll is definitely better, as if someone gets lucky and wins a lot of money, the site won't go bankrupt and will possibly gain the money back from other users.
Do note that the bigger the bankroll is, the more money you will have to put in to make a profit. If you want to take a bigger risk but gain more profit, invest in a site with a smaller bankroll. If you want to be safer but gain money at a slower rate, invest in a site with a bigger bankroll.
What is enough babkroll for site? I think that is unlimited/more is better.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
If (most likely) site owners are seed investors of bankroll, their part will stay big for long time.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
benefit for casino they will get more bankroll to cover if one player won a lot of money and they not offer much profit for investor. for example: casino get instant money when you invest at there but you need wait long time to take a profit if you investment and be selective to pick a casino before you invest your money
So why would an established casino like Just-Dice accept investments? Like you said, they already have a large enough bankroll...
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
Well it's just like the stock market. Why would Google or Apple need investments through shareholders?Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
They use that capital to invest in themselves, advancing their product and in turn growing their business.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
let me tell you why , first of all investments will raise the max bet limits but the casino won't benefit from that indeed they are taking a fee from investors cause they are using the site , so if the site was totally investor based the house will make money even if someone won big cause their profit mainly come from fees
but usually bigger bankroll make the site more popular and this leads to increase in bets in general
The way I understand it is like this. You invest 1 bitcoin and after a day you get 0.1 in profit from your investment, I understand the casino might take a fee but even if the fee is 10%, they are taking 0.01 and still giving you 0.09 bitcoins so essentially they are giving you 0.09 for ''free''
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
let me tell you why , first of all investments will raise the max bet limits but the casino won't benefit from that indeed they are taking a fee from investors cause they are using the site , so if the site was totally investor based the house will make money even if someone won big cause their profit mainly come from fees
but usually bigger bankroll make the site more popular and this leads to increase in bets in general
they get a lot of money to provide people if they win and they get a percentage of all people losses in my opinion thats how it works though investors usually dont earn a lot of money
So why would an established casino like Just-Dice accept investments? Like you said, they already have a large enough bankroll...
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
Maybe read my post just above? In a sense, JD is working as a PoS staking pool with a 10% fee. It is clearly beneficial for JD and doog to take bankroll investment.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
I have invest a little bit of bitcoin in 4-5 different casino sito with investment program. To long term, casino and investor win, but the really problem is when casino close and scam user and investor (is happen with dirrefent casino in bitcoin)
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
There's small chance for casino will lose their money. In fact many has loss now and try to recover.
You can also make some profit by investing into casino as long as their site is realiable and long trusted
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
The casino isn't losing money as they get a flow of money into their bankroll, what they might be unable to invest themselves. In addition bigger bankroll means more safety for the casino, more customer confidence, and ability to allow higher stakes. More customer confidence and higher stakes means more players and more money gambled, therefore more house edge.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
I support this statement. Why? Because casino were created to get a profit, either for long term or short term. They're many investor, or advertising company that promotes the casino. I believe there's just a plenty of people that win in casino rather than the loser. If not Las Vegas already close for now if they didn't get any profit.
ya it is true that playing in casino will not benefit you better than creating casinos for others to play and earn a small percentage on their winnings and the same who ever is going to invest on that casinos they both will get benefited according to their terms and condition but what ever you will be in profit.
I think some casinos make money from ad revenue in combination with fees, such as a small fee that happens everytime you depost (or withdraw) money on the casino's wallet to play with, and other raise money with investors.
So why would an established casino like Just-Dice accept investments? Like you said, they already have a large enough bankroll...
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
Maybe read my post just above? In a sense, JD is working as a PoS staking pool with a 10% fee. It is clearly beneficial for JD and doog to take bankroll investment.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
Disagree with who? I never said they are not making profit, I asked how so please dont post off-topic things and answer the question.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
I would guess it gives the casino the ability to raise the stakes of the games, since they have a bigger bankroll themselves. I see a lot of smaller casinos starting out with pretty small maximum bet sizes.
Yeah I thought about that but there are casinos like just-dice that have already enough bankroll and they are actually accepting investments.
Do they profit in some other way from these investments? Maybe to further expand their operation with new sites or whatever else is possible...
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
I would guess it gives the casino the ability to raise the stakes of the games, since they have a bigger bankroll themselves. I see a lot of smaller casinos starting out with pretty small maximum bet sizes.
Yeah I thought about that but there are casinos like just-dice that have already enough bankroll and they are actually accepting investments.
Don't forget that Clamcoin is a PoS altcoin. Clams deposited/invested in JD gives staking rewards and JD charges a 10% commission on investors' staking rewards IIRC.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
Disagree with who? I never said they are not making profit, I asked how so please dont post off-topic things and answer the question.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
I would guess it gives the casino the ability to raise the stakes of the games, since they have a bigger bankroll themselves. I see a lot of smaller casinos starting out with pretty small maximum bet sizes.
Yeah I thought about that but there are casinos like just-dice that have already enough bankroll and they are actually accepting investments.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
I support this statement. Why? Because casino were created to get a profit, either for long term or short term. They're many investor, or advertising company that promotes the casino. I believe there's just a plenty of people that win in casino rather than the loser. If not Las Vegas already close for now if they didn't get any profit.
I think i am disagree with you, if casino cant make profit there will be no more casino on this world
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
most of the casino make huge profit everyday, from the gambler and others maybe advertising or sponsorship
so investing in casino is a very good investment
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
Investor win together with casino. Usually casino charge percentage commission to every profit or every wagered amount so they will keep on getting profit as well as their investor so it is a mutual benefical thing
More investments work better for a casino with a low bankroll more investments=More bets=House edge
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
I would guess it gives the casino the ability to raise the stakes of the games, since they have a bigger bankroll themselves. I see a lot of smaller casinos starting out with pretty small maximum bet sizes.
I know investing in a casino will bring the investor profit in the long term, meaning that the casino will actually lose money in the long term so why are they doing it? What is the benefit they get from it?
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