How come both the "gas" and "fee" prices shoot up without ETH and BTC move?

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Quote from: user210822 on December 23, 2023, 08:00:30 AM

The thing interests me the most is: suppose there will be priority of BTC on the market and everybody will start to send transactions twice a day at least. What happens then to the subject?

Did you make a transaction in BTC today, if you did it today I think the answer is answered. What needs to be addressed now is just to work around the amount of the fee and don't rush into determining the amount of the transaction fee, meaning just set it normally and wait a few days and then your assets will come in. Even if you use the Lightning Network option, you can because Bitcoin may take some time to transfer from one address to another and this is the subject that is seen first besides the factors of Increased trading activity and investor interest.

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its mainly because the gas and fee aren't affected by the prices, the fact that transaction might be increasing in certain blockchain doesn't mean that these transaction suddenly increase because the price also increase, its because sometime in ethereum and bitcoin blockchain there are some event, remember the ordinal inscription that took advantage of the exploit as stated by many people its indicated that they are the reason bitcoin shoot up in term of prices, a blockchain wasn't meant for such thing being used for different thing, with ethereum it long has been known that there are simply too much project being deployed in the blockchain that it causes congestion, as a result the fee increase so high because some people are willing to price high their gas fee for the sake of being confirmed first, its always the thing with blockchain in general not limited to only the two blockchain.
thats why gas and fee could always shoot up high even without the price moving.

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Quote from: icalical on December 21, 2023, 07:25:55 AM

Ethereum has been experience high-fee since the ICO boom when people are not only sending ETH but also ERC-20 Token, both were using the Ethereum blockchain with more crowded transaction, it will take longer and when some people want their transaction to be proceed early they will raise the transaction fee, more people want their transaction to be proceed earlier than the other increase the fee even more, and so on and so forth.
...
Bitcoin Blockchain used to only process BTC transaction now is occupied with BRC-20 and ordinals, same thing that happened in Ethereum Blockhain is happening to Bitcoin Blockchain.

The thing interests me the most is: suppose there will be priority of BTC on the market and everybody will start to send transactions twice a day at least. What happens then to the subject?

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The Bitcoin (and ETH) transaction were not affected -or not affected significantly- by their price movement. Ethereum has been experience high-fee since the ICO boom when people are not only sending ETH but also ERC-20 Token, both were using the Ethereum blockchain with more crowded transaction, it will take longer and when some people want their transaction to be proceed early they will raise the transaction fee, more people want their transaction to be proceed earlier than the other increase the fee even more, and so on and so forth.

Currently Bitcoin blockchain is fulfilled with BRC-20 and Ordinals, Bitcoin Blockchain used to only process BTC transaction now is occupied with BRC-20 and ordinals, same thing that happened in Ethereum Blockhain is happening to Bitcoin Blockchain.

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Quote from: user210822 on December 18, 2023, 03:15:57 AM

Quote from: libert19 on December 13, 2023, 04:16:33 AM

Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

What will be my chances to see transaction well confirmed if I set priority to the lowest possible then?

Different wallets give different fees selecting lowest option. Use this site — https://bitcoinfees.net/ — go with last option, and your transaction should get confirmed within 24hrs.

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Quote from: gunhell16 on December 13, 2023, 01:12:15 AM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Before, the only problem we always had and complained about was the high fee of ETH (ERC20). Until now, it is still high, but unexpectedly, we have experienced several times that when there is congestion in the bitcoin network due to the ordinals, bitcoin fees are also high.

And worst of all, Bitcoin's charge fee has recently become even higher compared to ERC20, which is really a headache for all Bitcoin holders.
I hope in the near future the developers will resolve this problem anyhow.

Yes, hopefully this problem will be resolved quickly because there is no other choice but to wait, wait and wait.
Currently I am not making transactions because the fees are very expensive and maybe I will wait until the problem is resolved and it returns to normal to make transactions again, and this is giving me a headache.
And not long ago I was cheated when I tried to make a transaction, suddenly the fee changed to only $2.4, I was happy and made an exchange, and after I did that, suddenly the fee changed to $24. And this incident really made me dizzy.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

That's what my topic was meant to be! Better clear out if it'll be some trouble or BIG TROUBLE!?

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 12, 2023, 12:29:04 PM

For some users - $10 to $20 is not a lot of money, but most users are not willing to pay that much when there are many other options to choose from. One of the innovations that the bitcoin community prides itself on is its low transaction fees - so when the price gets expensive, it's only natural that some people start turning their attention to altcoins or other cheaper options.

My intention was to make small transaction as test. Then I require to send the rest of it. It comes to 20$ - 40$ for both even when the sum doesn't make millions of assets!

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 12:47:53 PM

Yeah I agree between $5 to $10 is ok when the network is clogged like now.

Could not agree more!

Quote from: poodle63 on December 12, 2023, 07:53:25 PM

right now the fee is already quite high enough to be honest and it might get worse if the ordinal inscriptions gets more and more popular.
although its good to see some innovation I guess its indeed a loss for bitcoin and the innovation isn't necessarily needed in this case.

And when I tried to rise this as a warning community here made a laugh of me! So what about to move your 1 BTC one should have to fee 0,9 BTC?! Seems like a real perspective to me in a light of ongoing mempool clogging...

Quote from: libert19 on December 13, 2023, 04:16:33 AM

Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

What will be my chances to see transaction well confirmed if I set priority to the lowest possible then?

Quote from: hyudien on December 13, 2023, 06:00:36 AM

Ordinal should be taken down because of the disease in the Bitcoin network.

So the problem is there... Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on December 11, 2023, 03:50:11 AM

What loss are you referring to?

Well, my transaction has been completed and this is the first time sending bitcoins, it took a long time up to 3 days.

Losses when Bitcoin transactions are busy due to the aggressiveness of BRC/Ordinal and some NFTs on the BTC network are increasingly hampering it. Another loss was when I sent Bitcoin at a price of around $100 and waited for confirmation and estimated the price was still at $44K due to the density of transactions and inevitably felt the impact when the price fell.

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

I set it at 22sats/byte, because usually that is always the minimum option and it doesn't take many days, plus at that time I wasn't searching for news about ordinals.

Quote from: poodle63 on December 12, 2023, 07:53:25 PM

there has been many concern in regard of ordinal these day so many people also have the opinion that ordinal is just taking advantage of exploit and its gonna be a problem and yes its already a problem right now because the blockchain I think wasn't intended for that

Ordinal should be taken down because of the disease in the Bitcoin network.

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Quote from: Litzki1990 on December 13, 2023, 04:08:53 AM

You are noticing a nine dollar fee for your BTC transfer but I have been trying to transfer my Bitcoin regularly for some time now but when it says fifty dollars as a transfer fee I no longer want to transfer BTC. This is very unusual and embarrassing. Needed but we are unable to transfer our BTC due to extra transaction fees. This problem has been happening for quite some time, I don't know how long we have to wait for our BTC transfer.

It could be due to wallet, they often show more fees than necessary, that's why it's better to check on third party sites and choose custom fee.

According to BitcoinFees [1], It's cheap right now, 62 sats fee and shows confirmation within 20 min. Anyhow, if it's not urgent you can make a transaction at low fee and wait. Couple weeks ago, when fees spiked to $20 usd, I made transfer on night with 42 sats fee (~2 usd) and transaction was confirmed by morning.

[1] https://bitcoinfees.net/

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You are noticing a nine dollar fee for your BTC transfer but I have been trying to transfer my Bitcoin regularly for some time now but when it says fifty dollars as a transfer fee I no longer want to transfer BTC. This is very unusual and embarrassing. Needed but we are unable to transfer our BTC due to extra transaction fees. This problem has been happening for quite some time, I don't know how long we have to wait for our BTC transfer.

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Before, the only problem we always had and complained about was the high fee of ETH (ERC20). Until now, it is still high, but unexpectedly, we have experienced several times that when there is congestion in the bitcoin network due to the ordinals, bitcoin fees are also high.

And worst of all, Bitcoin's charge fee has recently become even higher compared to ERC20, which is really a headache for all Bitcoin holders.
I hope in the near future the developers will resolve this problem anyhow.

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Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed. It may take a week or more and it is clear that Bitcoin users are very fed up with this kind of heavy traffic. I agree that Ordinal is one of the factors inhibiting Bitcoin transactions and brings more disease when strange people are interested in adopting Ordinal. In my opinion the people who launched Ordinal are responsible for the breakdown of Bitcoin transactions, because of this congestion small investors are increasingly discouraged from buying Bitcoin for the long term especially when high gas fees also make centralized exchanges have a strong reason to withhold Bitcoin from their use.

Isn't this a loss?

there has been many concern in regard of ordinal these day so many people also have the opinion that ordinal is just taking advantage of exploit and its gonna be a problem and yes its already a problem right now because the blockchain I think wasn't intended for that and its indeed clogs up the blockchain nowadays, even jack dorsey saying they not gonna process any ordi transactions in his mining pool so I guess some people are truly concerned right now. honestly these tokenization and things better off being processed in the sidechain that is smart contract compatible instead of trying to get the transaction happen in bitcoin blockchain.
right now the fee is already quite high enough to be honest and it might get worse if the ordinal inscriptions gets more and more popular.
although its good to see some innovation I guess its indeed a loss for bitcoin and the innovation isn't necessarily needed in this case.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

with 3 inputs the size is 488 bytes, total fees 14,458 sats ($5.99)
Its small amount of money, short story: I want to send 0.003 BTC from my trust wallet balance but the fees was $22 (not cool to use 20% of the balance only for the fees) so I imported the passphrase to electrum and sent it from there.

Yeah I agree between $5 to $10 is ok when the network is clogged like now.

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Quote from: tygeade on December 12, 2023, 11:50:23 AM

Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

-snip-

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

The lower the transaction fees, the better - but that doesn't mean high transaction fees are always bad. We may never see the day when we can send bitcoin at a cost of 1 sat/vB again - but it certainly has made it clear that usage of the bitcoin network continues to increase. Mempool are full of ordinal transactions and this has been an issue discussed for some time.

For some users - $10 to $20 is not a lot of money, but most users are not willing to pay that much when there are many other options to choose from. One of the innovations that the bitcoin community prides itself on is its low transaction fees - so when the price gets expensive, it's only natural that some people start turning their attention to altcoins or other cheaper options.

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Quote from: bluebit25 on November 24, 2023, 10:53:34 PM

Either you accept paying transaction fees to increase speed, or you accept the current state. I don't think the congestion is just some increased activity on the platform that brings this issue to attention.

Hmm isn't a "congestion" can be a network state due to high volumes of transactions? therefore congestion is really the challenge to any network that increases it's network activity? I can agree that you could have just choose between paying high transaction fee or accept the current network state, speeding up your transaction or wait til ages.

I think this problem will still remain for a few more years.

Quote from: bluebit25 on November 24, 2023, 10:53:34 PM

- Ethereum, I think the current altcoin scene has many alternatives that you can completely rest assured about such as EVM, L2,... some new L2 ecosystems such as OP, ARB,... are all brings great usage experiences. So don't be too forced to use Etherum.

Yeah, don't force yourself with using the ethereum network, coz these days there are so much more you can use to avoid these problems.

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Quote from: Sunderland on December 12, 2023, 10:42:40 AM

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

Obviously depends on how much you are sending (not the same if you are sending 50 million dollars worth) but it's about at 10-11 dollars right now on average. I do not know what the size of the transaction you made, but if you paid around ten bucks then you did pay about how much everyone else pays, and that means you have done fine. The sats/byte is important, but on average is a lot more important on discussion, because everyone has different sizes, but the average of the payment is something we can all commonly think about and talk about as well.

I believe that 10 bucks is fine, but that's about as fine as it gets, anything more than that is a lot, we shouldn't be here even when the price is not above the ATH price, if there was a huge hype and 100k+ dollar bitcoin price then I would understand but at this stage, when we are just starting, it's clear that we are going to have some trouble in the near future, that should be the most important part of the deal.

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Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed. It may take a week or more and it is clear that Bitcoin users are very fed up with this kind of heavy traffic. I agree that Ordinal is one of the factors inhibiting Bitcoin transactions and brings more disease when strange people are interested in adopting Ordinal. In my opinion the people who launched Ordinal are responsible for the breakdown of Bitcoin transactions, because of this congestion small investors are increasingly discouraged from buying Bitcoin for the long term especially when high gas fees also make centralized exchanges have a strong reason to withhold Bitcoin from their use.

Isn't this a loss?

How much were the fees? Last night it only takes a few hours from me with 59 sats/byte (3 inputs with 1 output).
If you send it with the fee less than 35 sats/byte, then it will take ages. Maybe better to double spend the transactions or yeah use viabtc as Charles-Tim mentioned above.
Because there are almost 200k dust transactions clogged the network and only God knows when it will be confirmed or purged from the network.

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Quote from: Casdinyard on December 11, 2023, 11:15:55 AM

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit,

We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

The maximum block size in Bitcoin is 4 MB, it started since segwit integration in 2017.

The on chain network and lightning network are different, you can't force every users to use LN, but you have an option to use which network you want. Just like there are many Bitcoin addresses, after native segwit is widely adopted, I don't see any reason why people need to use legacy address.

Quote from: user210822 on December 12, 2023, 07:45:47 AM

Is it possible to give power back to users instead of nodes?

It's not 100% decentralized anymore if there are few users can control it.

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Quote from: Casdinyard on December 11, 2023, 11:15:55 AM

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit, whilst looking at other options to earn the coveted scalability benefit. One of which is actually adding a real layer 2 solution in the bitcoin network that's more robust than the current lightning network we have, which I must say is not that good in terms of actually doing its job. We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

At the end of the day, as long as the devs don't do shit about it, no amount of banning "violators" or "exploiters" is going to stop bitcoin from experiencing this problem we'll have this issue again and again.

Is it possible to give power back to users instead of nodes?
The one responsible for spending should be able to add value to the blockchain and give efforts to maintain it, ain't is so?
Seems fair enough to me...

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on November 23, 2023, 04:46:54 PM

Quote from: el kaka22 on November 23, 2023, 01:41:22 PM

I know that it is not going to be easy at all, and I know that we are going to end up with something that would be difficult to handle, but we need to arrange something that has to be a bit different. I get that it is not going to be all that incredible, and yes it is not going to be a bigger deal, I hope that it gets to a point where we could just find a way to have bigger blocks, which means that more and more transactions could fit into it, even smaller ones, and make it quick. That would be a good situation, and should be a good return on our investment because we are spending a lot less in that situation as well.

Yes scalability is a big problem to bitcoin network and I know we will all be looking at increasing the block size, this has long been discussed and that was what brought the soft fork of segwit address using weight unit or virtual bytes instead of normal size unit and also the hard fork which is the BCH which I don’t think is doing well.

Once again the risk of having a bigger block size remains that the security of the bitcoin network will be tested. The higher the block size the higher the blockchain grows faster and this in turn makes it costly for one to run his own full node. If the number of node runners decreases then the decision of the network will be centralized to few nodes.

The higher the block size the less fee the paid to miners will be ( which is what we want ) but this will incentive the miners and probably result into them leaving the market most especially as the block reward is reducing. The lesser the miners are the less decentralize bitcoin network becomes

I think I'd side with the elitists here and stand with keeping the block size of bitcoin at a 1mb limit, whilst looking at other options to earn the coveted scalability benefit. One of which is actually adding a real layer 2 solution in the bitcoin network that's more robust than the current lightning network we have, which I must say is not that good in terms of actually doing its job. We can also look into integrating a new consensus mechanism at least in this second layer and have all payments and transactions be processed there to make sure that fees are charged less.

At the end of the day, as long as the devs don't do shit about it, no amount of banning "violators" or "exploiters" is going to stop bitcoin from experiencing this problem we'll have this issue again and again.

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Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed.

If your unconfirmed transaction is not more than 500 bytes in size, not less than 10 sat/byte, not having unconfirmed parent, you can use ViaBTC free accelerator to accelerate the transaction. If your txid is successfully submitted, your transaction will be confirmed in the next block mined by ViaBTC.

https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/

Quote from: hyudien on December 11, 2023, 03:44:20 AM

Isn't this a loss?

What loss are you referring to?

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Quote from: avikz on November 22, 2023, 12:34:08 PM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 22, 2023, 08:39:23 AM

As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

Nope! The fees amount has no relationship with the price. The fees is not increasing because of Bitcoin's demand. It is increasing because ordinals have again become active and they are using Bitcoin network. So the network is becoming congested and the fees are increasing as per the normal process.

This nonsense called Ordinals need to be stopped immediately. Otherwise, Bitcoin network will also become similar to ETH.

For almost 2 days my transaction process was stuck and it had not been confirmed. It may take a week or more and it is clear that Bitcoin users are very fed up with this kind of heavy traffic. I agree that Ordinal is one of the factors inhibiting Bitcoin transactions and brings more disease when strange people are interested in adopting Ordinal. In my opinion the people who launched Ordinal are responsible for the breakdown of Bitcoin transactions, because of this congestion small investors are increasingly discouraged from buying Bitcoin for the long term especially when high gas fees also make centralized exchanges have a strong reason to withhold Bitcoin from their use.

Isn't this a loss?

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OK, I see - now it's "ordinals" so there is a chance the next time we see "martians" attack or something else and fee will skyrocket again? If we expect BTC to be used in widened scale across the world and amount of transaction will rise accordingly with the miners getting less and less profit - how to adopt to the fee then? Huh

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Quote from: Aeroplanino on November 23, 2023, 06:05:40 AM

With Bitcoin, it's transaction fee.
With altcoins and their smart contracts, it's gas price.

Don't confuse transaction fee on Bitcoin blockchain and gas price on altcoin blockchains.

That is what he said. He even highlight both terms with quotes. This a good lesson though to some who still uses the term fee or transaction fee for both BTC and altcoins but I rarely heard that someone will say gas price/fee when they are talking about Bitcoin. I read a couple replies and I see that they already answered the OP, so I wouldn't repeat it anymore.

Besides, scenarios like this aren't new anymore on crypto or for that two big coins. The only thing about BTC is that its transaction fees can return to normal soon, while I doubt if ETH can also do the same. It is seems that the issue about their high gas cost is becoming a permanent problem already but we aren't bother with it anymore as there are now lots of alternatives created that we can use.

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

There is a historical correlation in price stagnation/decline when these networks become congested for long periods of time, or when bullishness and demand are extreme (fees high but price continues to rally). The reason for this is that people move to other networks when the opportunity allows them too, so that they can continue to transact. As well as this, those who have coins on those networks are stuck and unable to move them if they don't want to pay a higher fee. When the sentiment is extremely bullish and profit outweighs fees, they'll pay the fee.

There is not much you can do in these scenarios if you don't trust other blockchains. If you do, you can use layer 2 blockchains and wrapped versions of BTC to maintain exposure but without getting caught on the main chat. Some people don't believe in them, some use them as tools. I personally wouldn't use them for long-term holdings but if there is a prolonged increase in fees, this is usually my preferred way of storage until it's clearly subsided.

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Transaction fee depends on blockchain congestion, and you pay it via native token of that blockchain (Bitcoin > BTC, Ethereum >ETH), it has nothing to do with dollar price.

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Quote from: goaldigger on November 25, 2023, 04:39:36 PM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

It might be because of the network congested and despite of not moving the price that much you can still see its total volume that can add to the reason why the network fee is too expensive. This has been the problem with ETH network and despite of their updates, it looks like they can’t still address this issue and that’s why many can’t do anything about this but to accept it or to look for the best alternative.

thats true, congested because there are some projects having event and many people participated so regardless of the fee so long they could participate they'd be willing a little bit expensive fee than usually.
right now I think the hottest one is blast that causes uproar because they successfully raise 400 millions for their staking program just within few days, no wonder the fee is increasing.
also sometime if there is some minting event, its kinda normal though sometime the fee could just shoot up high enough to make people baffled thinking there's no proper reasoning as to why the fee could go so high meanwhile if we look at the gas guzzlers we could easily find the culprit that causes the fee to shoot up high, but to solve this we could easily just find the right time by observing the gas fee.

panganib999

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It's something that as a newbie you should get used to if you're looking for a long-term commitment with the crypto industry, cause you're going to get sick of this charade every time there's a price surge or a bull run's imminent.

To put it simply, when the network (the blockchain of the coin you're invested in) is congested, from multiple people either buying or selling cryptocurrencies all at the same time, to counteract and make it so transactions are stabilized within the network, transaction fees are increased. It's part of the simple law of supply and demand tango, wherein when there's a higher supply there's lower demand and therefore cheaper price, and when the supply's lower, the demand increases and so the prices shoot up as well.

I hope this answers your questions, and I hope this doesn't discourage you from furthering your journey with cryptocurrencies. I promise you that the good outweighs the bad here (so far, at least) so stick around if you can!

goaldigger

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

It might be because of the network congested and despite of not moving the price that much you can still see its total volume that can add to the reason why the network fee is too expensive. This has been the problem with ETH network and despite of their updates, it looks like they can’t still address this issue and that’s why many can’t do anything about this but to accept it or to look for the best alternative.

Jating

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

It doesn't move by the fees are moving are simple to explain with BTC, it's because there is BRC-20 ordinals that has been clogging the network. It's just not a simply P2P, just like Bitcoin, and so it needed more space, and it can occupy up to 4MB in size. And with that block size, it can congest the network because it will have to include high fees. And there are also speculation that is as deliberate attack by some entities.

So with that, we can conclude that increasing transaction fees is not equal to increasing price.

If this kind of attacks will stop, we can go back to normal, 1 sat/vB transaction and everyone should be happy about it. And so the question will those entities or BRC-20 ordinals developer/supporter stop minting or will they continue and then let Bitcoin developers come up with a layering solution?

jaberwock

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Quote from: Antotena on November 24, 2023, 05:23:38 AM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

That's because throughput of Ethereum and Bitcoin is very small. Let's use this simple analogy, we have a funnel and a bottle of jar and we want to fill it with some grains, assume the transactions to be grains and the outlet of the funnel is tiny but grains(tansactions) like 10-15 can pass through but we have many of them that want to pass through fastly but then you can bribe the owner person making the grains to pass through some amount to get pass sharply, then definitely everyone will want to impress the person with high amount to get pass quickly. That's basically how the fee work, the more the network get busy, people will be ready to pay sharply to get transaction through and so the fee skyrocketed.

Ethereum chain has plenty of erc20 tokens and the more people use the chain, the more busy if becomes and people will have to pay high gas fees. This is similar to bitcoin as well, the network has been busy because of the ordinals and people are paying more fee to get transaction done quickly, that's why the fees get high and it's independent of the price of bitcoin or Ether.

I would say the analogy is great and all, but at the same time we are talking about a situation that has to be careful and needs to be getting better anyway, like make the glass bigger, or basically the funnel or tunnel or whatever we want to call it. That has to be the most important thing and should be important to grow it and get it better.

Look at the world, whenever people had some sort of "this would make our life better" they worked towards making that happen, I am sure that we are going to have something like that as well, it is going to end up with being better. I know that it is going to be hard, but it has to be tested and innovated and needs to grow and get better. Without that happening, I we are not going to end up with a much bigger adoption rate, why would people willingly pay 20+ bucks per transaction, it makes it cool for investment, but not for a currency and that is why we need to make it lower and need to improve the system eventually.

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

It seems that you think that in order for the fees to increase we also need for the price of the asset in question to go up, but this is not really the case, it is true there is some correlation as when the price of bitcoin goes up the fees will go up as well.

But you are simply ignoring the real cause of this, and the reason is that the space of each block is limited, and if the demand for that space increases then the price we need to pay as fees to get our transaction included in a block increases as well, and right now the network is being congested by all the ordinals being released recently.

bluebit25

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Either you accept paying transaction fees to increase speed, or you accept the current state. I don't think the congestion is just some increased activity on the platform that brings this issue to attention.

- With Bitcoin this is a way to improve your trading - https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/

- Ethereum, I think the current altcoin scene has many alternatives that you can completely rest assured about such as EVM, L2,... some new L2 ecosystems such as OP, ARB,... are all brings great usage experiences. So don't be too forced to use Etherum.

Antotena

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

That's because throughput of Ethereum and Bitcoin is very small. Let's use this simple analogy, we have a funnel and a bottle of jar and we want to fill it with some grains, assume the transactions to be grains and the outlet of the funnel is tiny but grains(tansactions) like 10-15 can pass through but we have many of them that want to pass through fastly but then you can bribe the owner person making the grains to pass through some amount to get pass sharply, then definitely everyone will want to impress the person with high amount to get pass quickly. That's basically how the fee work, the more the network get busy, people will be ready to pay sharply to get transaction through and so the fee skyrocketed.

Ethereum chain has plenty of erc20 tokens and the more people use the chain, the more busy if becomes and people will have to pay high gas fees. This is similar to bitcoin as well, the network has been busy because of the ordinals and people are paying more fee to get transaction done quickly, that's why the fees get high and it's independent of the price of bitcoin or Ether.

gabbie2010

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Honestly the network congestion on the Blockchain was something else infact to transact just some Bitcoin was an enormous task, I read a news where huge transaction of Bitcoin was carried and the transaction fee gulped almost half of the total amount of Bitcoin transacted, personally I have to increase the transaction fee to a higher amount before I could get confirmation which was attributed to increase of ordinals on the Blockchain, I think this is one issue Bitcoin developers should urgently address to enable business organization adopt Bitcoin for payment gateway imagine waiting for more than 24 hours to get confirm in a transactions between a seller and the buyer..

Zaguru12

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Quote from: el kaka22 on November 23, 2023, 01:41:22 PM

I know that it is not going to be easy at all, and I know that we are going to end up with something that would be difficult to handle, but we need to arrange something that has to be a bit different. I get that it is not going to be all that incredible, and yes it is not going to be a bigger deal, I hope that it gets to a point where we could just find a way to have bigger blocks, which means that more and more transactions could fit into it, even smaller ones, and make it quick. That would be a good situation, and should be a good return on our investment because we are spending a lot less in that situation as well.

Yes scalability is a big problem to bitcoin network and I know we will all be looking at increasing the block size, this has long been discussed and that was what brought the soft fork of segwit address using weight unit or virtual bytes instead of normal size unit and also the hard fork which is the BCH which I don’t think is doing well.

Once again the risk of having a bigger block size remains that the security of the bitcoin network will be tested. The higher the block size the higher the blockchain grows faster and this in turn makes it costly for one to run his own full node. If the number of node runners decreases then the decision of the network will be centralized to few nodes.

The higher the block size the less fee the paid to miners will be ( which is what we want ) but this will incentive the miners and probably result into them leaving the market most especially as the block reward is reducing. The lesser the miners are the less decentralize bitcoin network becomes

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on November 23, 2023, 02:19:13 PM

In Bitcoin, there are no fixed fees, and they differ from one transaction to another, and the difference is not in the price of the transaction, but rather in the number of entries and exits, which basically determine the necessary fees after ensuring that they are sufficient to be added in the next block or several blocks according to your discretion. Ethereum works differently, and with proof of stake, fees will inevitably be lower on average, but the network has not been tested with full blocks like Bitcoin.

Bitcoin fee was cheaper than fee on Ethereum network until Ordinals and Inscription came into reality. There are coins that uses PoW but having cheaper transaction fee. Fee on Ethereum network is not cheap at all despite that it is using PoS. PoW can be designed to have lower fee, while PoS like Ethereum network have a design that has high fee.

Yamane_Keto

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In Bitcoin, there are no fixed fees, and they differ from one transaction to another, and the difference is not in the price of the transaction, but rather in the number of entries and exits, which basically determine the necessary fees after ensuring that they are sufficient to be added in the next block or several blocks according to your discretion. Ethereum works differently, and with proof of stake, fees will inevitably be lower on average, but the network has not been tested with full blocks like Bitcoin.

el kaka22

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The issue is that the transaction numbers increase a ton, and we need to realize that we can't really have it both ways, we can't have a big bull run where the price goes above 70k+ and at the same time keep the transaction quick and cheap. That doesn't exist, or at least it doesn't exists right now, and we need to keep thinking about that.

I know that it is not going to be easy at all, and I know that we are going to end up with something that would be difficult to handle, but we need to arrange something that has to be a bit different. I get that it is not going to be all that incredible, and yes it is not going to be a bigger deal, I hope that it gets to a point where we could just find a way to have bigger blocks, which means that more and more transactions could fit into it, even smaller ones, and make it quick. That would be a good situation, and should be a good return on our investment because we are spending a lot less in that situation as well.

Aeroplanino

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With Bitcoin, it's transaction fee.
With altcoins and their smart contracts, it's gas price.

Don't confuse transaction fee on Bitcoin blockchain and gas price on altcoin blockchains.

irsykes

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Volume volatility and rising crypto prices greatly influence gas costs, during the bull season all transfer fees, swaps soar high and fees can be said to be expensive for me. Many investors who hold coins for a long time sell in the bull season so that transactions become slow. and there is no other choice I have ever chosen to choose high fees on the ethereum network.

_act_

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Quote from: CODE200 on November 22, 2023, 04:19:57 PM

Mempool's inexplicably congested, some people attributing ordinals as the cause for this which I couldn't understand, since NFTs are practically for a long time now. With that being said

Ordinals and Inscriptions are not only NFTs, also BRC20 is among which are fungible and they are increasing everyday as new BRC20 token is created. Bitcoin transactions will definitely have increased recently but the Ordinals and Inscriptions transactions are part of what is congesting the bitcoin mempool.

You can see BRC20 coins if you click on this link: https://coinranking.com/coins/brc-20

CODE200

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Mempool's inexplicably congested, some people attributing ordinals as the cause for this which I couldn't understand, since NFTs are practically for a long time now. With that being said, There's been movement in both bitcoin and ethereum in the past few days, which may have lead people to take this opportunity to either buy more crypto, or sell what they held on for so long. So there's that. In any case, I don't see gas fees (as long as they are not astronomically high) as a massive loss for cryptocurrencies, since at the end of the day this is an indication that something within the network is transpiring, which is a good sign for the most part since it means a lot more people are becoming involved in crypto.

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

Now there is. Hello, $37k again.

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

I thought that hype heats up the market which is not true for present situation.
But what strikes me the most is future perspective on that!
Does that mean that whenever one will earn 1 BTC with sweat, blood and tears he/she must pay 0.1 BTC in gas/fee?! I refer to this chart on other source.

Not really. Don't mind about the current fees because it won't be that long. It doesn't represent the future fees as well. There will be some solutions to these sudden high fees because it's not the first time that we've dealt with this. It has happened before and likely to happen in the future but don't mind about the fees in the future and much better to get to that point of owning 1 Bitcoin first and let the network handle on its own.

ZAINmalik75

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

You are quite late to notice it because those who are regularly dealing in crypto are well aware of the BTC fee, and this fee does not shoot up due to the price of BTC. If you think the price of BTC is the only reason behind the transaction fee, then I think you should gather some information first.
I can assist you in learning that transaction fees don't only depend on the BTC price; they also depend on the traffic on the BTC blockchain. Due to the recent Ordinals probelms, the BTC blockchain is loaded with thousands of transactions in a short period of time, and a lot of bad people are using techniques to dust the blockchain to increase the fee artificially.
These bad actors could be anyone but are assumed to be miners because their actions benefit the miners most. Other than this, ETH's price was already high, but I was not aware that it was near $9.

alani123

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Quote from: avikz on November 22, 2023, 12:34:08 PM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 22, 2023, 08:39:23 AM

As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

Nope! The fees amount has no relationship with the price. The fees is not increasing because of Bitcoin's demand. It is increasing because ordinals have again become active and they are using Bitcoin network. So the network is becoming congested and the fees are increasing as per the normal process.

This nonsense called Ordinals need to be stopped immediately. Otherwise, Bitcoin network will also become similar to ETH.

The fees for bitcoin do have some natural correlation with price, that is at least if we assume that there's stable demand for space in bitcoin blocks.
So really it's a multi factor issue, but you can't deny correlation with price.

Go to the following website, what do you notice?
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-price-btc.html#alltime

Bitcoin fees peaked when prices were also reaching ATH levels. There's some very high correlation with the two well known BTCUSD bubbles of 2017 and 2021.

As of this year's peaks in fees, yes, you're right. They're directly caused by heightened demand for block space caused by Ordinals and BRC-20 tokens that take a lot of space in blocks with their really inefficient transactions, putting images and "token" creations on chain.

avikz

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 22, 2023, 08:39:23 AM

As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

Nope! The fees amount has no relationship with the price. The fees is not increasing because of Bitcoin's demand. It is increasing because ordinals have again become active and they are using Bitcoin network. So the network is becoming congested and the fees are increasing as per the normal process.

This nonsense called Ordinals need to be stopped immediately. Otherwise, Bitcoin network will also become similar to ETH.

Wapfika

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Fee is based on the demand of sending transactions not derived from the buying demand which will boost the price. Anyone can send tokens without to exchange or other address which means this doesn’t affect the price. Any movement of tokens from different address is not related to buying a token.

I believe the price will pump if the fee is lesser since it only means that everyone is holding while most the trades is happening on exchange via internal transaction.

coupable

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Only miners have the authority to determine the direction of fee prices, whether up or down. To understand this, we must take into account the profit formula of mining companies because they do not do this voluntarily. They are companies whose primary goal is to achieve the most profits possible, and in this market they have fierce competition. These companies are mainly affected by the extent of demand for using the network because they operate on the principle of collecting transactions that have more fees, and the extent of the flow of transactions on the network is not always controlled by the price of the currency itself because people may sell a lot when prices rise or buy more when prices fall.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

More demand means more price isn't it?

Probably, if people are buying, this will likely make the mempool to be congested. But like I meant before, not only bitcoin transactions that makes the mempool to be congested, Ordinals and Inscriptions are part of it.

Quote from: Doan9269 on November 22, 2023, 09:36:46 AM

I know of bitcoin network being currently congested but can't say about the ethereum network if this congestion has extended to them or not

Ethereum network has been congested more than bitcoin mempool since years ago, but both are congested now.

Quote from: Doan9269 on November 22, 2023, 09:36:46 AM

in bitcoin we make use of transaction fee while in ither cryptocurrencies it's called gas fee,

There are many other coins that call it just transaction fee, but some like ethereum call it gas fee.

Zaguru12

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 22, 2023, 08:39:23 AM

As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

I see where your question is headed, you see the mempool congested which means that there is high demand or supply of bitcoin which should have impacted the price either upward movement or downward movement but it is not that. Yes that is because the mempool is not just congested with bitcoin only but with also has another token called the BRC20 tokens like ORDI on its network and there mass transactions has been the one congesting the bitcoin mempool. The bitcoin transactions in the mempool are just the usual transactions but since the listing of ORDI on binance exchange many people have started falling into the prey of buying it and it is the token that is congesting the mempool.

As for the ETH gas fee or its congestion that’s also has to do with the movement of numerous number of tokens on its network that is been transferred and not the ETH coin it self.

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

I thought that hype heats up the market which is not true for present situation.
But what strikes me the most is future perspective on that!
Does that mean that whenever one will earn 1 BTC with sweat, blood and tears he/she must pay 0.1 BTC in gas/fee?! I refer to this chart on other source.

You are checking bitcoin fees on the wrong site or either you’re evaluating it wrongly your self. Bitcoin transactions fees has never been that high to 0.1 BTC. Even the highest bitcoin transaction fee we have had since this congestion stated hasn’t surpassed 500sats/vbyte as far as I can remember which is equivalent to just then equivalent to 0.0007 BTC

You should check https://mempool.space/ for proper fee estimation

DVlog

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 09:28:18 AM

I thought that hype heats up the market which is not true for present situation.
But what strikes me the most is future perspective on that!
Does that mean that whenever one will earn 1 BTC with sweat, blood and tears he/she must pay 0.1 BTC in gas/fee?! I refer to this chart on other source.

According to the chart link you have provided the average transaction fee for the bitcoin network today is 0.00034 BTC. Where do you get that 0.1BTC in gas fees which is equivalent to 3653.60 USD? I don't think the bitcoin network was ever that congested that users needed to pay that much for a single transaction. Bitcoin network gas fees is not constant they change according to the traffic they get. The more transactions in the memepool the more congested the network will be.

Doan9269

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

I know of bitcoin network being currently congested but can't say about the ethereum network if this congestion has extended to them or not, in bitcoin we make use of transaction fee while in ither cryptocurrencies it's called gas fee, bitcoi netwo is not getting congested for the first time, ordinals is part of what is believed to have constitute to the congestion on the bitcoin network making it transaction fee higher because other services are taking advantage of the blockspace to serve their own purpose at the expense of the bitcoin users.

user210822

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 22, 2023, 08:39:23 AM

As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

Yes I see that. I see that there's no move in price as well. More demand means more price isn't it?

Quote from: DVlog on November 22, 2023, 09:19:32 AM

Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Recent ordinals listings and news events makes bitcoin network congested. News of bitcoin and ETH ETF also creates hype to the market which lead to a congested market for both network. There is another L2 in the ETH network that emerged this week and its TVL is already around 70M due to possible airdrop from that project. This new L2 is called Blast and news says it is a project created by a famous NFT marketplace Blur. This situation won't last long and the network will run like normal when the hype fades away.

I thought that hype heats up the market which is not true for present situation.
But what strikes me the most is future perspective on that!
Does that mean that whenever one will earn 1 BTC with sweat, blood and tears he/she must pay 0.1 BTC in gas/fee?! I refer to this chart on other source.

DVlog

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Quote from: user210822 on November 22, 2023, 08:32:03 AM

Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Recent ordinals listings and news events makes bitcoin network congested. News of bitcoin and ETH ETF also creates hype to the market which lead to a congested market for both network. There is another L2 in the ETH network that emerged this week and its TVL is already around 70M due to possible airdrop from that project. This new L2 is called Blast and news says it is a project created by a famous NFT marketplace Blur. This situation won't last long and the network will run like normal when the hype fades away.

Charles-Tim

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As you can see on this mempool site, https://mempool.space/, bitcoin unconfirmed transaction is 223426, which means the mempool is congested. Ordinals and Inscriptions is part of what that makes bitcoin mempool to be congested.

Ethereum network can also be congested with it transactions and its tokens transactions like ERC20 tokens most especially.

user210822

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Have anybody noticed the strange situation on the blockchain? Huh

There's 9$ fee to send 0,9$ amount for both famous coins. How this could happen? Just take a look at the price - it hardly moved from the average!

Topic: How come both the "gas" and "fee" prices shoot up without ETH and BTC move? (Read 511 times)