How come no miner's fees?! | Bitcointalksearch.org

odolvlobo

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Quote from: miragecash on February 22, 2014, 05:30:35 PM

OK, I used coinbase for the first time to test it out. I transferred some BTC into my cell phone and coinbase said that it took out 0.0002 BTC as a miner's fee, BUT when I look in my cell phone wallet, all the BTC that I transferred is there. Nothing was taken out. If I transferred 1 BTC, then shouldn't the amount received be 0.9998 BTC due to the miner's fee? What am I not understanding here?

Coinbase pays the fee for you. My guess is that they believe that paying the fee themselves keeps their customers happy.

How the fee is handled is up to the wallet application. If you tell the wallet to send 1 BTC and the fee is 0.0002, a wallet might send 0.9998 BTC for a total of 1 BTC, but most wallets send 1 BTC for a total of 1.0002 BTC.

Quote from: miragecash on February 22, 2014, 07:24:01 PM

I am SOOO Confused. Someone please help a newb figure out how much to pay in fees and type the correct fee in the electrum wallet. Maybe I should use a different wallet? ?

Electrum will automatically calculate a fee for you. The calculation is based on the same rules that are used by most nodes. Adjusting the amount may change the amount of time it takes to confirm the transaction. Using the value that electrum suggests is sufficient as long as electrum is kept up-to-date (because the rules change occasionally).

AFAIK, all wallets calculate a fee for you and some don't let you adjust it, so switching to another wallet won't change anything.

bitpop

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They pay it, be happy

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: miragecash on February 22, 2014, 09:12:26 PM

OK, so what would be a good fee for this? 0.0001 BTC/1000 bytes ?

That depends on how generous you feel, and how quickly you want your transactions confirmed. Also, you'll want to modify the amount as exchange rates increase and new versions of the reference client are released.

Right now:

If you pay a fee less than 0.0001 BTC per kB, anyone using the reference client treats the transaction the same way they would if you paid no fee at all.
The typical fee is 0.0001 BTC per kB. This will get your transaction confirmed sooner than most transactions that aren't paying a fee at all, but you might have to wait for a few blocks if there are a lot of transactions pending.
Since most people pay a 0.0001 BTC per kB fee, a 0.0002 BTC per kB fee will make it very likely that your transaction will be included in one of the next 2 solved blocks.
Some people choose to voluntarily pay as much as 0.001 BTC per kB. This makes it extremely likely that the transaction will be confirmed with the next set of transactions that are confirmed.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: coinage on February 23, 2014, 02:16:36 AM

I thought this thread would be about the recent revelation that bitcoin inputs can be completely destroyed by miners who choose not to accept fees. Apparently those inputs can never again be used, even with access to the private keys. (Seems plausible but I have not verified the claim.) This is different from sending to a made-up address for which no known private key exists: in that case, the balance remains permanently accounted for on the blockchain.

Nothing you've said is a "recent revelation". It has all happened in the past. None of it applies to the discussion in this thread. Please try to keep the discussion on topic.

justusranvier

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Quote from: coinage on February 23, 2014, 02:16:36 AM

I thought this thread would be about the recent revelation that bitcoin inputs can be completely destroyed by miners who choose not to accept fees.

Spending inputs completely destroys them - that's now transactions in Bitcoin work.

What you mean to say is that whoever mines a block does not need to claim the full reward they are allowed, but this isn't a particularly recent revelation.

coinage

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Quote from: miragecash on February 22, 2014, 05:30:35 PM

OK, I used coinbase for the first time to test it out. I transferred some BTC into my cell phone and coinbase said that it took out 0.0002 BTC as a miner's fee, BUT when I look in my cell phone wallet, all the BTC that I transferred is there. Nothing was taken out. If I transferred 1 BTC, then shouldn't the amount received be 0.9998 BTC due to the miner's fee? What am I not understanding here?

Usually fees are deducted from a sender's remaining balance, not from the transferred amount.

If you start with 10btc in wallet X and send 1btc to wallet Y with a .0001 fee, wallet X typically winds up with 8.9999. Wallet Y, your payee, should receive a full bitcoin.

Otherwise, users would needlessly have to make an extra trivial calculation for every transaction.

I thought this thread would be about the recent revelation that bitcoin inputs can be completely destroyed by miners who choose not to accept fees. Apparently those inputs can never again be used, even with access to the private keys. (Seems plausible but I have not verified the claim.) This is different from sending to a made-up address for which no known private key exists: in that case, the balance remains permanently accounted for on the blockchain.

miragecash

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You're right! The fee I type in is BTC per 1000 bytes. OK, so what would be a good fee for this? 0.0001 BTC/1000 bytes ?

Thanks.

[/quote]

I don't use Electrum, so you may want to wait for an actual Electrum user to stop by and answer your question.

However, I'm pretty sure that the "fee" that you configure in Electrum is actually the "fee per kilobyte". Electrum figures out how many kilobytes (or fraction thereof) are necessary to create the transaction that you want. Then Electrum multiplies the number of kilobytes by the "fee" that you have configured to determine the actual fee to pay. So if you set a configuration setting of a 0.0001 BTC fee in Electrum, then the fee you usually pay will be 0.0001 BTC (since most transactions are less than 1 kilobyte) and if for some reason you happen to create a transaction that is more than a kilobyte, Electrum will pay an increased fee.
[/quote]

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: miragecash on February 22, 2014, 07:24:01 PM

Thank you, I think that explains it. I tried using electrum to send BTC and it has a window where you enter the fee. However, it doesn't tell you what is the minimum fee required. Then I googled bitcoin fees and it doesn't tell you how much fees per bitcoin but how much fees per 1000 bytes. So, now I'm really confused.

I ended up sending the BTC after entering a fee of 0.0001 BTC since I read that most transactions are only 500 bytes. I sent the funds and now it deducted the fee and sent the funds. The coinbase fee free transaction took 30 min to 60 minutes to reach 6 to 7 confirmations and all the confirmations took place at the same time.

The transaction that I sent using electrum with a 0.0001 btc fee only took 8 minutes for 3 confirmations. So, the fee transaction is faster while the free one is slower. However, the slower transaction took place anyways and while some tranactions require a fee some don't.

I am SOOO Confused. Someone please help a newb figure out how much to pay in fees and type the correct fee in the electrum wallet. Maybe I should use a different wallet? ?

Thanks,

I don't use Electrum, so you may want to wait for an actual Electrum user to stop by and answer your question.

However, I'm pretty sure that the "fee" that you configure in Electrum is actually the "fee per kilobyte". Electrum figures out how many kilobytes (or fraction thereof) are necessary to create the transaction that you want. Then Electrum multiplies the number of kilobytes by the "fee" that you have configured to determine the actual fee to pay. So if you set a configuration setting of a 0.0001 BTC fee in Electrum, then the fee you usually pay will be 0.0001 BTC (since most transactions are less than 1 kilobyte) and if for some reason you happen to create a transaction that is more than a kilobyte, Electrum will pay an increased fee.

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

Most of the wallets round the number up, when it is that close to 1btc, when showing the balance

miragecash

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Thank you, I think that explains it. I tried using electrum to send BTC and it has a window where you enter the fee. However, it doesn't tell you what is the minimum fee required. Then I googled bitcoin fees and it doesn't tell you how much fees per bitcoin but how much fees per 1000 bytes. So, now I'm really confused.

I ended up sending the BTC after entering a fee of 0.0001 BTC since I read that most transactions are only 500 bytes. I sent the funds and now it deducted the fee and sent the funds. The coinbase fee free transaction took 30 min to 60 minutes to reach 6 to 7 confirmations and all the confirmations took place at the same time.

The transaction that I sent using electrum with a 0.0001 btc fee only took 8 minutes for 3 confirmations. So, the fee transaction is faster while the free one is slower. However, the slower transaction took place anyways and while some tranactions require a fee some don't.

I am SOOO Confused. Someone please help a newb figure out how much to pay in fees and type the correct fee in the electrum wallet. Maybe I should use a different wallet? ?

Thanks,

Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 22, 2014, 06:08:00 PM

Be careful about taking advice from a bunch of newbies making random guesses about stuff they don't understand. This thread is full of people who just seem to like to see their own name in a thread.

Post the transaction ID and we can tell you for certain, but as long as the amount being sent is large enough CoinBase usually pays the transaction fee on behalf or their users. So, the transaction fee was probably paid, but it was probably paid by them instead of taking it out of your funds.

http://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/815435-does-coinbase-pay-bitcoin-miner-fees-

Noisskal

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You can choose to add miner fees or not

DannyHamilton

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Be careful about taking advice from a bunch of newbies making random guesses about stuff they don't understand. This thread is full of people who just seem to like to see their own name in a thread.

Post the transaction ID and we can tell you for certain, but as long as the amount being sent is large enough CoinBase usually pays the transaction fee on behalf or their users. So, the transaction fee was probably paid, but it was probably paid by them instead of taking it out of your funds.

http://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/815435-does-coinbase-pay-bitcoin-miner-fees-

Icon

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That or a set fee is only used when you send below a set amount of btc, if the amount you sent is higher then the minimal, then correct me if i am wrong, the fee is waved.

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Meuh6879

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perhaps, you're in a "happy time" first user ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxl7-HNDaeg

miragecash

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No, you misunderstand. I am not complaining about the fees paid. I am complaining that I haven't paid any fees, even though it says 0.0002 BTC was paid to the miner's, in actuality, nothing was deducted.

I am confused....

Meuh6879

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exchange (and virtual wallet) take ALWAYS fee to retrieve BTC ... it's not "bitcoin" fee ... it's exchange fee.
it's normal.

miragecash

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OK, I used coinbase for the first time to test it out. I transferred some BTC into my cell phone and coinbase said that it took out 0.0002 BTC as a miner's fee, BUT when I look in my cell phone wallet, all the BTC that I transferred is there. Nothing was taken out. If I transferred 1 BTC, then shouldn't the amount received be 0.9998 BTC due to the miner's fee? What am I not understanding here?

Thanks,

Topic: How come no miner's fees?! (Read 1007 times)