How do I identify genuine mining opportunities?

quality.crypto

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Quote from: SamsungBitcoin on December 17, 2017, 05:20:51 PM

Quote from: werto87 on December 17, 2017, 04:55:14 PM

They are all joke, just like the bitcoin miner app. By the time you "mine" enough, your "free trail" contract is over. Undecided

Cloud mining is a business of the scammer; and much better to avoid them and invest in trading because you will be anonymous in your fund. If you have huge money for capital it is great to build your own mining rigs, yes it is risky but it is much better than investing in cloud ming also having own mining site can gives you higher and stable profit.

For that we need lot money setup the mining rig, the best things start investing in trading because with the profits you setup mining rig. Humble suggestion to the OP is don't and never invest into the cloud mining because there are many scammers out there to steal your money without paying anything.

Cindung

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

I believe you're talking about cloud mining. IMO you should waste you money in cloud mining, it's not worth. With normal exploration with antminer or asicsminer you will have to spend around 2 years to be able to take all the money you invested in gold mining back but it'll be longer if you use cloud mining. Beside there are a lot of scam cloud mining so it's not easy to learn a truthworthy one so you should better stay away of cloud exploration and try to earn from a few other way like trading, buying ICO job or maybe holding.

BitNotByte

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i invested on this particular site which offers a ROI in just ten days! imagine having to return your investment in just 10 days and after that, it still continues to mine. Now think about is, is it good to be true? don't get hooked up on such thing as high ROI in short time frame etc. try to weigh the facts of a real mining sites

RamonBTC

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I don’t know how to answer this question because even the popular one and trusted bitcoin mining platform can soon be a scammer like website. It’s hard to tell for it will always be a risk and that what internet really is since it is prone to any abused. So if you have the courage to gamble in that, you just have to be ready for anything might happen in unexpected way.

canaveralnonie

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Quote from: Yanisumin on December 18, 2017, 04:57:48 PM

Quote from: khufuking on December 01, 2017, 08:16:56 PM

There is no cloud mining that I know off that can make you any real profit , In my opinion stay away far away from them . There is ton of others things that you can put your money in that is more reliable than cloud mining .

There are some mining sites that is legit but those legit one has a very little profit.
Listen here, the only mining that can get you profit is when you've invested to real mining farm or when you build your own mining rig cause let me think of it. I wonder why people will let you in, in what they are calling some "Mining" when they can just take all the profit? Real miners just need some funds and when they have accumulated or when they built the mining machine they don't need you anymore and they will solo their profit so don't believe online so I think it is better to just learn software and hardware and build your own.

Quote from: vintages on December 16, 2017, 09:09:01 PM

There are few ways to know, though, these days it becoming complicated.
What I usually do when I was interested in cloud mining then is to always run a deep background search on it, about the company and where it is located.
This is very essential because at the process, you will surely discover something which might make you want to use it or not.
Apart from running a background check on it, also try to read recent reviews because you would see people who might not like the way the company runs and why.
Also make sure these reviews are from genuine people who might have used it. Because sometimes, some companies buys reviews just to look good.

They can't do all sorts of lies online, you can't fully depend on what's online so better check out the actual site (the actual location) and check what are they mining and what are they doing, some mining are not profitable nowadays because mining is getting hard. And again I will just recommend to build your own. Sometimes, Even Items online that has a pretty good reviews can be a failure when you already get it.

This mean that you don't need to trust on internet videos and advertisement. You need to find someone that have reputation when in comes of mining bitcoin industry. This is a big help thread to avoid possible scammer attack in the future plan on mining. But if anyone here can advise or can add put some trusted link about mining, so I can use it and observe it.

Yanisumin

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Quote from: khufuking on December 01, 2017, 08:16:56 PM

There is no cloud mining that I know off that can make you any real profit , In my opinion stay away far away from them . There is ton of others things that you can put your money in that is more reliable than cloud mining .

There are some mining sites that is legit but those legit one has a very little profit.
Listen here, the only mining that can get you profit is when you've invested to real mining farm or when you build your own mining rig cause let me think of it. I wonder why people will let you in, in what they are calling some "Mining" when they can just take all the profit? Real miners just need some funds and when they have accumulated or when they built the mining machine they don't need you anymore and they will solo their profit so don't believe online so I think it is better to just learn software and hardware and build your own.

Quote from: vintages on December 16, 2017, 09:09:01 PM

There are few ways to know, though, these days it becoming complicated.
What I usually do when I was interested in cloud mining then is to always run a deep background search on it, about the company and where it is located.
This is very essential because at the process, you will surely discover something which might make you want to use it or not.
Apart from running a background check on it, also try to read recent reviews because you would see people who might not like the way the company runs and why.
Also make sure these reviews are from genuine people who might have used it. Because sometimes, some companies buys reviews just to look good.

They can't do all sorts of lies online, you can't fully depend on what's online so better check out the actual site (the actual location) and check what are they mining and what are they doing, some mining are not profitable nowadays because mining is getting hard. And again I will just recommend to build your own. Sometimes, Even Items online that has a pretty good reviews can be a failure when you already get it.

canaveralnonie

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Quote from: SamsungBitcoin on December 17, 2017, 05:20:51 PM

Quote from: werto87 on December 17, 2017, 04:55:14 PM

They are all joke, just like the bitcoin miner app. By the time you "mine" enough, your "free trail" contract is over. Undecided

Cloud mining is a business of the scammer; and much better to avoid them and invest in trading because you will be anonymous in your fund. If you have huge money for capital it is great to build your own mining rigs, yes it is risky but it is much better than investing in cloud ming also having own mining site can gives you higher and stable profit.

Good suggestion, just sound like " build your own business and be a Big Boss than being employee until you get old and become useless" . Well the risky factor is always there but it has high percentage of being successful than waiting for trading,investing, being a bounty hunter and many more. Just adding a little side comment.

player514

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Don't ever mine using some oneline service. 99 out of 100 times it's a scam. Cloud mining and mining in general is practically not profitable for the average Joe. The difficulty has come to the point where you would need to be very rich or a pool of money in order to even think about being profitable on mining. Even then, the difficulty could increase significantly over the time you expect to be mining, making you continuously put money into the mining rig for the chance to not even get your money back.

SamsungBitcoin

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Quote from: werto87 on December 17, 2017, 04:55:14 PM

They are all joke, just like the bitcoin miner app. By the time you "mine" enough, your "free trail" contract is over. Undecided

Cloud mining is a business of the scammer; and much better to avoid them and invest in trading because you will be anonymous in your fund. If you have huge money for capital it is great to build your own mining rigs, yes it is risky but it is much better than investing in cloud ming also having own mining site can gives you higher and stable profit.

werto87

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They are all joke, just like the bitcoin miner app. By the time you "mine" enough, your "free trail" contract is over. Undecided

ASHLIUSZ

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Several cloud based mining is getting promoted through social media as well self promoted articles. Very small number of such websites seems legitimate, upon the same its good to invest into small scale mining, maybe this will help in improving the mining with different asics and other equipments available.

vintages

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There are few ways to know, though, these days it becoming complicated.
What I usually do when I was interested in cloud mining then is to always run a deep background search on it, about the company and where it is located.
This is very essential because at the process, you will surely discover something which might make you want to use it or not.
Apart from running a background check on it, also try to read recent reviews because you would see people who might not like the way the company runs and why.
Also make sure these reviews are from genuine people who might have used it. Because sometimes, some companies buys reviews just to look good.

kaya11

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

It's really hard to know whether the cloud mining you chose is a scam or not. Even it is not a scam, we can never tell that you can be successful all the way, look at what happened to Nicehash, they have been breach and we don't know if the money of the users will be given back or will be lost forever. Well all investments are risky and you should know that by now. If I were you, why not invest in promising ICO or Bitcoin and Ethereum. Just holding onto them will give you decent profit, it's your call not ours.

ladydark

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Majority of cloud mining farms are scam.You could try genesis mining as it is said to be legit.You could find three plans based on the hash rate.It is sad that you would have to wait atleast for six months patiently to get back your invested money.Indeed you could even mine some altcoins with GPU systems itself in home and sell them for bitcoins.

canaveralnonie

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Quote from: veleten on December 03, 2017, 11:09:00 AM

how to know if a cloudmining is scam? -it has a website!
on a more serious note,cloudminings are the thing of the past
even the ones that are legit won't let you profit
if you want to learn more about how to determine the legitimacy of a cloudmining ,go here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cloudmining-101-ponzi-risk-assessment-878387

you can also find a short list of the "legit" sites and also a huge list of the already collaped scams

An good information from a legendary, thanks for it. So much useful for me as a newbie when in comes of mining . I visit the link that you provided in your previous message. It's absolutely hard to understand in a short interval of time. But I'm interested in cloud mining.

Sadlife

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There is no legit or trustworthy cloud mining sites. This sites let's you buy some imaginary mining power with a high price and takes to long to be able to get the ROI of your investment sometimes you lose your capital instead of gaining when the duedate has come for your investment to grow. This cloud minings are more like crowd funding where they gather the money of investors and once they hit the desired amount or cap they vanished.

mrcash02

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Avoid all mining businesses which don't allow you to resell your mining power or mining businesses which decreases mining power value within time. That means: avoid 99,9% of mining related businesses... When investing always think on long term, do the math and if there aren't solid returns or guarantess, get away!

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Aamir1 on December 10, 2017, 05:07:30 AM

Online mining should never be an option even if the service is legit, they wont give you the profit you may desire.

True but newbies will still insists that they have earned a very attracting amount thought that's not really high. They are for the profit without doing anything and they find it as an effortless opportunity.

Quote from: Aamir1 on December 10, 2017, 05:07:30 AM

There are some legit cloud mining websites where you can invest your bitcoins, but you should keep this in mind that cloud mining wont generate you any quick profits and it would even take a long time to give you the ROI (Return Of Investment). So my personal suggestion to you would simply be not to get into it and try something else, and i'm saying this because i did it myself in past.

Better to learn from the experiences of others with those popular exit scams that happened with these schemes it's not going to be worth it for a person that wants to get in with cloud mining. Better to stay away and find a better opportunity with trading.

reymartH

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If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t, no investment can consistently generate high returns with no risk or guaranteed returns. Remember all Ponzi schemes always begin with paying out or else they will not attract new recruits. If the primary way of earning is through referrals or commissions, your alarm bells should be ringing since it means that the business model on its own is unprofitable.

AldenGreen

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It is an unfortunate truth in the internet world wide web realm, everyday a new website will surface claiming big return of investment.
The good thing is many online reviews now is free to view and read, they can give you insight about the website security and investment accountability

Mister1k

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Quote from: Aamir1 on December 10, 2017, 05:07:30 AM

Online mining should never be an option even if the service is legit, they wont give you the profit you may desire. There are some legit cloud mining websites where you can invest your bitcoins, but you should keep this in mind that cloud mining wont generate you any quick profits and it would even take a long time to give you the ROI (Return Of Investment). So my personal suggestion to you would simply be not to get into it and try something else, and i'm saying this because i did it myself in past.

This biggest headache for newbies actually. They doesn't understand issue behind the Ponzi cloud mining sites. Normally we are finding the many cloud mining sites in online those are been used rent the hashes and for mining contract. We may know that mining site like this cheat us bit newbies doesn't know that invested there. Suggestion for them should not on that. If you wish start mining initially go with GPU mining and then go with ASIC mining platform.

Aamir1

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Online mining should never be an option even if the service is legit, they wont give you the profit you may desire. There are some legit cloud mining websites where you can invest your bitcoins, but you should keep this in mind that cloud mining wont generate you any quick profits and it would even take a long time to give you the ROI (Return Of Investment). So my personal suggestion to you would simply be not to get into it and try something else, and i'm saying this because i did it myself in past.

Kingofbitcoin12345

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I can relate to this topic because I’m once been victimized by this cloud mining site scammers.. I don’t know how to separate legit one to another because even the prestige one in a time can turn into a scamming site someday.. It is totally just about the guts you have with the risk of failing is big.. So to be sure,, withdraw your earnings everytime and don’t leave on the site..

Carmen01

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

avoid that kind of imagination because scammer is only a trial here in bitcoin,You can easily avoid all of scammer here like create a new account then register in their site so it so safe even they scam or hack you,I think they can scam you if you register in their mining site so do a wise thing for the safe of your account,always read or search about history of the mining site before you do investment then think already that mining can turn to scam anytime,Moreover i think don't invest in any cloud mining and do only mining if they have free bitcoin first

fanbeila

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Most of cloud mining firms are scam nowadays.So,genesis cloud mining firm could be suggested as it is found to be legit.Three plans are available based on the hash rates.

But what should be considered is that even the initially invested amount would take almost six months to get recovered.

So,i would suggest to better invest in bitcoins and hold or invest in altcoins and do trading.But if you need passive income,then just go with the first option.

veleten

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Quote from: cheeseburgerparade on December 04, 2017, 08:56:01 AM

I've had pretty good luck with the open ended BTC contracts at Genesis, but that's the only provider to this point that I've trusted enough to put real capital towards. That said, it's a long term play with some significant uncertainty as to whether it would have been better to have just bought and held BTC (will need it to run long enough to give me back more BTC than what I put into it; guesstimating about 18 months).

you assume that the mining will still be there in 18 months
the main p[roblem is that they turn scam with almost 100% certainty
or change their terms on the fly,increasing the fees,changing contracts etc.
nobody in their right mind would allow you to buy a contract for 2 years when the price was 300$
and let you cash in on the almost 40 times growth,just like that
without trying to nab you

cheeseburgerparade

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I've had pretty good luck with the open ended BTC contracts at Genesis, but that's the only provider to this point that I've trusted enough to put real capital towards. That said, it's a long term play with some significant uncertainty as to whether it would have been better to have just bought and held BTC (will need it to run long enough to give me back more BTC than what I put into it; guesstimating about 18 months).

Sophia29

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Make sure you read reviews and investor's opinion before getting involve with cloud mining program, internet is full of scam sites, but some are good sites yet questionable returns of investment. Be sure you understand terms and condition more.

Buwa

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In my research in the last few days, i was introduced to a mining group, a group of people come together to pay for the machine. Fingers crossed, lets hope this is genuine. Thanks to all who responded. I learnt from you all.

veleten

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how to know if a cloudmining is scam? -it has a website!
on a more serious note,cloudminings are the thing of the past
even the ones that are legit won't let you profit
if you want to learn more about how to determine the legitimacy of a cloudmining ,go here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cloudmining-101-ponzi-risk-assessment-878387

you can also find a short list of the "legit" sites and also a huge list of the already collaped scams

Granxis

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Quote from: kapipindot on December 03, 2017, 09:24:56 AM

My advise is to stay away from this type of investment. It is very risky as it may only lead to being scammed. If you really want to earn, just purchase your own rig or try trading. It is better that you manage your investment than giving it to somebody and let them do the job for you. There are no shortcuts to success.

Everyone can not get these devices because their expensive devices require expertise. Most people are having trouble getting to the pool and integrating it. Most importantly, you need to use an office and a warehouse. It's quite expensive but the most guaranteed method.

nidacoinlove

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Hey boy come on don't ever think of something like cloud mining to be a genuine stuff to invest your money in. There could be very rare mining investment offers if it ever exists.
I am personally a victim of cloud mining unfortunately. Cry

I have tried many times to find a genuine mining website but I failed every time. Finding such kind of a website or app is a waste of time and money both. It is much better to look for something other than it where your money and time both are not in vain.

kapipindot

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My advise is to stay away from this type of investment. It is very risky as it may only lead to being scammed. If you really want to earn, just purchase your own rig or try trading. It is better that you manage your investment than giving it to somebody and let them do the job for you. There are no shortcuts to success.

Tyrantt

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Need some spare btc for a new PC

Today, btc cloud mining is really hard to be profitable since the difficulty is huge and the fees aren't making any less difficult and you can google to see if the service is genuine or see what they're offering, so if the offerings are just too good to be true, like ROI after a few months, then it's pretty much fake. There are probably some genuine ones but alt-coin mining ones. Check out the one in my signature, they're looking genuine and they're not absolutely just bitcoin based, I'm thinking to invest myself as well.

Creeptolady

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Learnt a lot just reading the posts here. From what I gather, cloud mining is a no-no. I've had a couple of no-good experiences with those. I had thought maybe I wasn't doing something right. Now I know better. My issue is, the security that cryptocurrency offers might also end up being its Achilles' heel.

Buwa

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Quote from: deadsilent on December 02, 2017, 02:20:44 AM

It's hard to identify what cloud mining can be a genuine. Even a reputable cloudmining can be a scam. They give you lifetime contract and they will change it lately because they are not be able to cover their power costs. That's how they work. Since the money you invest to them are nonrefundable. You can't get your money back. Besides, it's not even profitable at all. You're not even sure if it can cover your initial investment to them. They said you can get your ROI in just 6 months. Well, that's absolutely not true.

There's a lot of investment out there which can give you decent profit and surely not a scam. Trading, lending and mining. These are good ways to make good profit.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate

Buwa

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Quote from: filharvey on December 02, 2017, 02:08:23 AM

Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Its true that nowadays most of the cloud mining firms are scam.Genesis is said to be the most legit firm.They seem to allow three plans based on the hash rate.

But whatever plan you select,for getting your investment back,it may take approximately six months to get.You would have to consider such things before investing in it.

Truth be told six months is a long time and anything can happen within that period. However, do u care 2 provide me with the website for Genesis, will love to take a look at them.

AngelSky

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Mining can be done with the GPU cards or ASIC hardware alone. If you want to mine with the cloud mining platform you will be able to find the scam site alone. You might heard that cloud mining is ponzi schemes in many threads.
I see that you are asking about Genesis mining in your further posts but you will never able to take the investment you done with that site. That is the real problem in any cloud sits. some of shit cloud sites will lock your account or go away after some amount of money collected as contract rate or hash power rentals.

Buwa

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Quote from: khufuking on December 01, 2017, 08:16:56 PM

There is no cloud mining that I know off that can make you any real profit , In my opinion stay away far away from them . There is ton of others things that you can put your money in that is more reliable than cloud mining .

Thanks for your response. Please do you care to share these other options that are more reliable?

Buwa

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Quote from: batang_bitcoin on December 01, 2017, 08:11:04 PM

Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

If you are talking about cloud mining, there's no need for you to do some deep research. Basic knowledge is enough to determine that they are scams. But if you are still looking for a genuine way to mine, you should start to get know more about mining woth ASIC / Antminer or GPU mining these are the legit mining you are looking for.

Thanks for your response. But aren't these options capital intensive?

Kemarit

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Scammers are also evolving as well. And I haven't seen any trusted cloud mining except for Genesis Mining, but I also heard lot of members crying scam. Personally, I don't have investment on them so I can't tell if them are scam or not. However, there are a lot of cloud mining site popping around. You need to look at the end of the site, what are their offers and what they can provide. But I wouldn't put my interest on them though. Would rather buy and hold than invest on that kind of site because the chance of getting a good ROI is really small now. And why are you interested though? Its really hard to spot them now because they are really evolving so my only advise is to stay away.

deadsilent

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It's hard to identify what cloud mining can be a genuine. Even a reputable cloudmining can be a scam. They give you lifetime contract and they will change it lately because they are not be able to cover their power costs. That's how they work. Since the money you invest to them are nonrefundable. You can't get your money back. Besides, it's not even profitable at all. You're not even sure if it can cover your initial investment to them. They said you can get your ROI in just 6 months. Well, that's absolutely not true.

There's a lot of investment out there which can give you decent profit and surely not a scam. Trading, lending and mining. These are good ways to make good profit.

filharvey

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Its true that nowadays most of the cloud mining firms are scam.Genesis is said to be the most legit firm.They seem to allow three plans based on the hash rate.

But whatever plan you select,for getting your investment back,it may take approximately six months to get.You would have to consider such things before investing in it.

khufuking

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There is no cloud mining that I know off that can make you any real profit , In my opinion stay away far away from them . There is ton of others things that you can put your money in that is more reliable than cloud mining .

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Buwa on December 01, 2017, 05:46:38 PM

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

If you are talking about cloud mining, there's no need for you to do some deep research. Basic knowledge is enough to determine that they are scams. But if you are still looking for a genuine way to mine, you should start to get know more about mining woth ASIC / Antminer or GPU mining these are the legit mining you are looking for.

Buwa

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Quote from: OuterTech on December 01, 2017, 06:06:31 PM

I think you're talking about cloud mining. IMO you shouldn't waste you money in cloud mining, it's not worth. With normal mining with antminer or asicsminer you will have to spend around 2 years to be able to take all the money you invested in mining back but it'll be longer if you use cloud mining. Beside there are a lot of scam cloud mining so it's not easy to find out a truthworthy one so you should better stay away of cloud mining and try to earn from some other way like trading, investing in ICO project or just holding.

Thanks so much for your response. What i want more details on is: identifying genuin partners to partner with to mine crypto as there are so many scammers out there. If someone approaches me that he mines and he would want me to invest, what are the key things to look out for? What are the key questions to ask?

Buwa

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Quote from: BlackCrypto29 on December 01, 2017, 05:55:29 PM

It's good u do an extensive research on cloud mining if u don't have money to buy any of the antminer.. I will always recommend Genesis

Do you have any experience with Genesis? And any contact details i.e their website?

OuterTech

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Merit: 100

Tokenize Fantasy Sports

I think you're talking about cloud mining. IMO you shouldn't waste you money in cloud mining, it's not worth. With normal mining with antminer or asicsminer you will have to spend around 2 years to be able to take all the money you invested in mining back but it'll be longer if you use cloud mining. Beside there are a lot of scam cloud mining so it's not easy to find out a truthworthy one so you should better stay away of cloud mining and try to earn from some other way like trading, investing in ICO project or just holding.

BlackCrypto29

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 0

It's good u do an extensive research on cloud mining if u don't have money to buy any of the antminer.. I will always recommend Genesis

Buwa

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

With scammers everywhere wanting to capitalize on one's lack of knowledge, how can I idenify which mining opportunities are genuine to avoid falling victim to scammers. Help out with whatever knowledge and experiences you might have.

Topic: How do I identify genuine mining opportunities? (Read 1015 times)