Topic: How Do I Tell My Daughter That People Across Europe Fear Minorities Like Us? (Read 2050 times)

The neanderthals were "recovered" by a sentimental generation of archeologists in the sixties, when they discovered that the neanderthals cared for their wounded. But they had their qualities. Strong people, yes.

But that didn't helped them much. There is uncertainty on what happened, but it seems, at least in some parts of Europe, that we killed them and impregnated their women... as we did against the homo erectus in Asia, when we arrived there, and so many times later on against other human beings in new lands.

A few thousands years after we arrived and the neanderthals and the homo erectus were extinct or absorbed by us.


They didn't almost changed their hunting tactics or instruments for 200,000 years. They hunted big game at close range (killing mammoths at close range, crazy guys...), instead of trowing spears on them. Only after contacted us, they started to change. They were basic people.

Well, Neanderthals DID have bigger brains and more muscle...

I wonder if people know that our main ascendents left Africa about 70,000/60,000 years ago and when they arrived in Europe, about 40,000 years ago, they were probably still very dark. We all descend mainly from a group of between 200 and 500 africans.

We are not discussing you but the article....thanks but I am bowing out of this tangential discussion now

And Muslims in general are tired of being associated with the actions of the minority.


I'm not sure that makes much sense.


Again, you're not making any sense.

I have openly stated that I am am a devout atheist of European Jewish decent. I have openly stated that I view Islamism as being comparable to Nazism and Zionism in some respects - and this makes me the pro-Islamic movement? What mental deficiency allowed you to perform that particular act of mental gymnastics?


I don't live in an Islamic fundamentalist country. Nor will I. I do live in Europe. How is this difficult for you to understand? Your rather primitive intellect would, 100 years ago have been making similar arguments about Jews. It's pretty pathetic.

Overall people are tired of being attacked for having an opinion that Islamic fundamentalists do not agree with. I for one, am tired of this as well, and firmly believe that your viewpoint stems from one of a passive-aggresive whom fails to address the primary issue of equality.

A deep desire for so called equality at the expense of others is the root cause of this European, nigh global, angst.

Why must you, being the pro-Islamic movement, thrust your viewpoint onto the general public and scream discrimination when asked to fix your own backyard first, namely the Islamic countries that no free thinker wants to live in.

*Sigh*

If only such a free thinker as yourself would campaign for freedom of religion in Islamic fundamental countries then maybe you would find Europe more accepting.

Please go forth to such countries and campaign for freedom of global religion...

Because it's a primitive though process indicative of low intelligence. How about that for a reason?


Sure. Two problems with that:

1. Why are you advocating global bigotry rather than global tolerance?
2. Why is an argument against bigotry in Europe in any way shape or form weakened by the fact that people are naturally more interested in the politics of the countries in which they live.


Yes. Are you opposed to bigotry? Or supportive of it? It goes both ways.


I'm routinely critical of Islamism (political Islam), which I view as being as insidious as Zionism or Nazism.

But I won't submit to primitive, unintelligent thinking. Just because Muslims in, say, Egypt are, on average, less respecting of women than non-Muslims men are of women in Europe...is that an argument to be less respecting of Muslim women in say, France? That's a terrible argument.

Yep, why not? If someone cannot carry a holy scripture, of any religion, nor talk about said religion in an Islamic country then why should Islamic people expect to be able to conduct their religious activities in another country?

I believe that if anybody wants freedom of religion then they should also practice or push for that right in any country, not just the 'easy ones'.

As I said, it goes both ways...

Put another way, would you fight so hard for a Christian to preach the bible in the UAE or for a Buddhist to meditate in public in Egypt? I don't think so...

So the argument should be that because we have Muslim bigots in other parts of the world, we should have non-Muslim bigots in Europe?

Easy...tell her that just like Islamic states that do not want Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Aethists, etc...the predominaetly Christian Europeans do not want Islamic minorities becoming majorities.

It swings both ways basically

Humans share about 50% of their DNA with bananas.

The implications are clear.

Yeah, you just proved my point, that's not a misconception at all, I was only being rough with the percentages and using it as an example but the point is no matter how 'pure' you might think you are or your ancestry is standard human pervertedness dicatates that at some point along your line one of your ancestors will have decided to go fuck a non-european just because

My family for example breeds like rabbits and we have a few interracial couples in my family as well to the point where I have four names, another reason I'm very grateful to Bitcoin because I don't always have to enter in personal information into those stupid fields that always break when I actually try to enter it in properly.

Bigotry is a mode of primitive thought. You might feel comfortable in indulging in it, but that's no reason to expect everyone else to be so backward.


Yea...you're talking to an anarchist. I'm pretty sure I agree.


Aside from making me think you're a very angry person, I'm not sure that sentence actually means anything.


Yea...it's not my daughter...that was the title of the article...it was the author's daughter.


I'm always impressed when a person's inexplicable anger makes them say stuff that a five year old could pick apart. I hope you have a better day today. Chin up.

This is a common misconception.

Among whites on 23andme, it is estimated that 96 or 97% of them are of pure European descent.  The remainder have an average of less than 1% non-European ancestry, meaning 1 non-white great great great great great grandparent out of 128.  The one-drop rule formed a protective barrier for whites.

Of course this is the 23andme data set, a self-selected group which skews towards the curious, nerdy, and financially secure.  The other end of the spectrum probably has a little more non-white ancestry.  I suspect that most "Cherokee" ancestry among lower class Americans is actually very distant black ancestry, but again it can't be much.

Europeans being a race (many are arguing that races don't have a gene support and that they don't real exist) or not isn't the point.

Historically, many of them, especially in the XVIII and XIX century, looked to the other members of the Caucasoids, in North Africa and Asia, as different from them, inferior. And did even worst to other groups.

Never mind that those peoples already had civilizations when the europeans were still scavenging dead animals.

That is a pretty broad brush you are painting with.

since when is European a race?


americans are racist altough they claim not to be


gender only if it's going to make males look bad


I don't understand why everyone is forcing this multiculturalism,I mean just let everyone do the fuck they want
stop involving yourself in other countries and let them do what they fucking want..

It's a BIG world out there. Europe already has diversity coming out of it's ears without this failed, unravelling experiment called multiculturalism. There are four other continents to live in if you're looking to be a globalist. They're bigger and less populated too.

You tell her that it's not the people, but the media that is trying to make the people fear the monorities.
I know for my country The Netherlands, that before our muslim hating political pvv came in the picture.
There was posts everyday in the newspapers about specifically Moroccans or Turkish people that committed a crime.
And the most muslim people live in the big city's in The Netherlands, so all the people in the little city's read about it in the papers.
But in there little city or village they didnt see muslims at all and they didnt want that in there city so they voted for pvv.
And now after Pvv is big in The Netherlands the papers are not filled with bad press about muslims anymore.
 

You can remind her that not all people feel this way. There has always been fear and prejudice, but there has also been light and goodness. Be one of those people, and find others who are secure enough in themselves to love those who are different.

I think a lot of it has to go with the fact that ethnic white communities feel victimized, feeling like they're being forced to stay politically correct.
That's the demographic FN and PVV pander to: white, working class, frustrated males. And that's been that way ever since the Euro-sceptic right wing emerged.
Don't see anything changing. Jews then, Muslims now, someone else 50 years down the line

True.

But leniency is needed for the cutthroat nature of market competition.

I agree with that, and basically other things in general. I think it's because countries are more shaded from what other countries, how the most 'important' things make the news. And by the time they come to another country, somebody has made it more dramatic, and replaced the need-to-know details with ones that don't tell the whole story. And the things that are going to be outlined more are either:

Race
Religion
Gender
Nationality

I guess the "she" is Madam Le Pen, the daughter and heir of the one and only Le Pen, who recently told the press that Ebola could be a good way to solve the demographic explosion in Africa.

I imagine that her daughter wasn't kind to him the first opportunity she had to talk with him ("Are you f***ing senile, to tell that to the press? There are true things we can't confess to the press!!).

no one is trying to convince you about it, it's the opposite,but what you fail to see and realize here, is that there are between one to two billion Muslim around the world, and by far the vast majority are peaceful people that do no deeds, there are psychopaths, there are murders, but that is not exceptional! you can find in every community, religion, population..... the same amount of people doing the same things, if you check the last five years for example, there were far more people killed in America unrelated to anything Islamic, but once a single thing is related to Muslims appears it is always blown out of proportion, to augment the fear factor, and to augment the military, intelligence spending.....ect and to serve obviously some agenda.

tl,dr : In our world there are psychopaths no matter what the race, religion, country.... it is, there is just too much focus on the foreigners in general to serve certain agendas.

she and her party won because she plays on people emotions with lies and transformations of facts, playing on fear, and dissatifaction Holldand and the PS is getting for not succeding to change the unemployment curve and the economic situation overall, she will use the fear factor, and she targets the muslim community and other minorities as they are an easy target and use a case are two to generalize and push her opinion

You cannot convince me that there are no bigots in the Muslim world. You cannot convince me that there are no extremist murderer kidnapper psycho sickos in the Muslim world. America has not yet forgotten 9/11, and if you've paid any kind of attention to the news lately, you'll know what those whackos now want to do to the nearly 300 girls they kidnapped -- and the Nigerian military doesn't seem to have enough testosterone to do anything about it. That said, I understand that these people are a minority and Christianity also has people like the Westboro "Baptist" Church, which doesn't even represent most Baptists and made headlines often enough to make all Christians look bad. My main thing is, if you don't want people to think bad of your entire religion, don't pull crap like flying planes into buildings or picketing a dead soldier's funeral, and then whine to everybody who will listen because you've suddenly realized that you've developed a massive public image problem

And it happened before those Europeans moved to the other parts of the world. Those 4% to be exact, are a very important bit. We have Neanderthals to thank for our immune system.

Lethn, I completely agree with you, but I think we need to add specicism to that list of stupid things...

Europeans mixed with Neanderthals. Every European has between 3 and 5% of Neanderthal genes. Yes, Europeans are a very superior and pure race.

That's the stupid thing I find about racism and xenophobia, you get any of these morons to submit to a DNA test and you'll find they'll at least have 5% something that isn't what they claim they are, single cultures are dead and soon the single race will be dead as well

I'd like to do some DNA testing on both the BNP white supremacists and Muslim supremacists, I'm sure we'll all be in hysterics, the Muslims will probably find out they have some kind of Christian ancestors and then the white supremacists will have some african blood in them or something.

This is why I think racism is a fucking joke and people should never take it seriously.

easy..

tell her, people from the US came from Europe, you're the same

Go tell that to the British. The Jews bombed up many of them, including their headquarters, the King David Hotel, in 1946 (91 dead), trying to expel the British and forming an independent State. And they did the same to the Arabs since 1938.

Now, as a state, well... bombing terrorists, including in western States (against the Munich terrorists), Lebanon, Tunisia (against the headquarters of the PLO in 1985), Gaza...

Former victims are always ready to make some victims too.

It is very simple. When the economy turns to shit, people turn selfish and want to blame anyone but themselves for their debt gorge.

The comments in this thread are pathetic. You politically correct ass wipes make me want to puke.

Look in the fucking mirror. The whole fucking mess of collective society is always an abject failure. The only thing that ever works is the individual and the frontier.

I could care fucking less about your endless (useless and reinforcing failure) political pontification and hot air balloons masturbation.

Tell your daughter to focus on gaining a skill and being productive in the Knowledge Age (or nurture her to be a good wife to a man who can, feminism BS be damned), where guvmint won't be able to provide for her any more. Wasting her time on this crap shows you don't have a clue how to be a parent (and the guvmint has been doing that job very poorly for you, indoctrinating her mind with this nonsense).

Europe has a long tradition of xenophobia even with white people. It is more of a nationalism thing than racism I think.

It's not a religion thing, no one would be making a ruckus if it were Albanians, Bosnians and white-looking Tatars migrating by the millions into Britain / France

It's hard to combat the anti-Muslim hysteria when a young Muslim woman is jailed for writing 'Jihadi poetry' (released on appeal, admittedly), whereas a former BNP nut and known Muslim-hater caught with a huge cache of explosives in his garden shed is charged under the Explosives Act, in a trial that didn't even make the mainstream media.

No smoke without fire I guess.

"still infected with nationalism"?!? Thanks to God! There's still hope. Bad news for you mate: apart from the brainwashed liberals and leftist most of us here in Europe are indeed proud about our nations, our history, our traditions, our legacy and our achievements. Even worse news: from year to year more and more Europeans finding their way back to their roots.

I agree. It's also stunning how after a certain war happened, in which the U.S gained more oil, people still think that only certain people can be terrorist. Some people cling to the idea of certain ideals and morals make terrorist, and also the way they dress make them extremists. Some media outlets also uphold these statements, and only post 'those' stories, in which, they don't talk about what the U.S or any other country has done to a degree. When I see some Muslim women where I live, people automatically want to stray away from them.

They think the way they dress automatically align them with our 'ideas' of extremists or terrorists.  Yet, if I told them the U.S basically stole soil to engage in a bigger source of wealth, they'll swear that the U.S was protecting us.

I think their are a higher number of extremists in any culture in which there is a high degree of poverty as well. When you have nothing to lose it is easy to become radicalized. The key to ending Islamic terrorism is economic not military. You see the same thing on a more limited basis in the US with some of our minority populations. The fact that so many Muslims live in such poverty right beside such vast oil wealth is disgusting.

Exactly. And when we have atrocities by other religious nuts, their religions aren't mentioned. The front cover of Edward Said's "Covering Islam" sums it up nicely:

Wow, that's a great way to justify using a small group of people, to identify the whole religion or race.

Americans: Hey, that one guy is ignorant to the fact America isn't that powerful. All Americans think that way.

British: I see a few people in Britain drinking tea, so everybody there likes tea.

How about this? Anybody can be a extremist. Probably more Muslims, if you credit that to your thought process, but if the guy you've been smiling with from Australia blows up with a plane... How would you tell this to the Muslim that you've been 'keeping your distance from' and patted him down constantly at Airport Security?

The extremists give Muslims a PR nightmare. Your average westerner knows very little about Muslims. The only time western media shills talk about Muslims is in the context of the acts of the extremists. 

The minority group that I belong to is being fought daily in Washington.


The smallest minority, otherwise known as the individual.

I think that's a bit disingenuous.

There is nothing in Islamic teachings today or in classical pre-modern Shariah which would justify kidnapping schoolgirls and selling them as slaves, and yet Boko Haram are viewed as Muslims, rather than just criminals / a cult.

Christians aren't discriminated against based on atrocities committed by Christian extremists. When the Lord's Resistance Army rapes, kidnaps, murders and maims tens of thousands of people, Christianity is seldom mentioned. It's only when atrocities are committed by Muslims that their religion becomes important.

It is a bit different with Muslims. Jews did not hijack planes, make car bombs or kidnap high school girls. Such comparison is unfair.

We all understand only a small percentage of Muslims are extremists, but they are impossible to identify by appearance, so fearful people choose to keep a distance.

You haven't watched Top Gear much have you? they regularly get into trouble over comments they make but I honestly believe they do it now to bait people who go around looking for something to complain about.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/06/top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-slope-comment-bbc-ofcom

The funniest thing is, in the shot, you can actually SEE that the bridge is genuinely sloped where Hammond is pointing rofl, there certainly are laws and stuff about saying these kind of comments but I think there are people here who believe in free speech even more than the Americans.

There's being racist and then there's being stereotypical, most of the comments I've seen people complain about in the UK are usually people talking in stereotypes, not people being overtly racist, that footballer guy in the U.S for example definitely was racist, what was it the NBA? Yeah, that's how little I care about racism really.

I remember when I was taught about racism at school and I bet most people do, I seriously doubt they explained anything properly because I remember being taught that 'certain' words were wrong to use about a people or saying certain things but they never bothered going into detail, probably because they didn't know themselves. Attacking and being violent to someone because of their race or religious beliefs etc. definitely is racist for sure.

That's interesting. Are there any strict laws on using slurs, or vulgar comments to different races or religions currently? Like fines, or is it unnoticed?

Fuck all supremacists.

I still hear it in the UK, mostly from people of my generation and my parent's generation. For example, a footballer dives and a supporter shouts:

"Ignore him ref, he's jewing you!"

Most people don't even realise that it refers to Jews. Maybe 100 years from now we will call it "Musliming you" - that's progress for you.

The UK was a reasonably anti-Semitic place, anti-Semitism was actually one of the driving forces behind Britain's support for the creation of Israel. Lord Balfour was an anti-Semite, didn't like Jews and didn't want them coming to the UK, so he thought the creation of a Jewish state would mean he could redirect European Jews into Palestine, rather than seeing them in the UK.

Oh. I didn't even know some Europeans said "to Jew". Is that commonly used, or just 'there'? There's still bouts of Xenophobia in the U.S (Now targeted from Islams, and such.) and racism is still breathing, but going that far to create a verb...

The title of the post is the title of the article, in the author's voice, I'm not a Muslim.

Europe is still infected with nationalism, and with nationalism comes xenophobia, racism and everything else. I've read a lot of the anti-Semitic propaganda from 100 years ago, it's so frighteningly similar to what I read being written about Muslims today. "To lie, cheat and swindle?" That's why we still have the verb "to Jew" someone, meaning to lie to them, to cheat or swindle them.

isn't it quite easy? you can tell her people in europe are similar to people in the states, at least if that's where you're from. she should know the world is a messed up place, because if she didn't and abruptly found out.. that could be a crippling blow.

How can people still be this idiotic? World War II happened decades ago. Really long time to learn from mistakes... That happened because of... What? Mostly Isolation, and not wanting to aid in the fight.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/ukip-ethnic-minorities_b_5409716.html?utm_hp_ref=tw


Muslims are the new Jews, Islamophobia the new anti-Semitism.  It's a shameful, hateful repetition of history.