How does XT influence physical bitcoins?

username18333

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Quote from: Cryptology on August 23, 2015, 01:47:29 AM

Pre-fork coins will exist in both chains. So either in one chain predominates or both chains carry on forever you should be ok.

For any given Bitcoin blockchain, the "economic utility" of those "[p]re-fork coins" (Cryptology) would not, necessarily, be that which it was (at its genesis), but could have come to diverge therefrom.

Cryptology

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Quote from: Possum577 on August 22, 2015, 07:39:24 PM

How does XT influence physical bitcoins (e.g., Casascius)?

I presume that if the bitcoin on the coin were withdrawn from the wallet it would just be compatible with the XT system, but would this remain true 10 or 20 or more years from now?

Pre-fork coins will exist in both chains. So either in one chain predominates or both chains carry on forever you should be ok.

username18333

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 23, 2015, 12:32:40 AM

Giving central authority over a decentralized body make it not decentralized anymore. That would effectively kill what Bitcoin is.

Which would, in that case, be "needed" (VirosaGITS) (in that manner whereto you referred).

(Note: do you recognize that the claim seems entirely unsubstantiated. Quotation [of authoritative sources] serves to substantiate claims [hence, the use of quotation].)

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Quote from: username18333 on August 23, 2015, 12:28:03 AM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 23, 2015, 12:17:32 AM

Haha. A USian. Interesting. Well its not like i don't understand the need at some point to go around civil liberties to get information needed to hunt down dangerous criminals. However allowing this in a decentralized network would quite simply expediently destroy it.

Your second point demonstrates that you "don't understand the need at some point to go around civil liberties" (VirosaGITS).

Quote from: username18333 on June 05, 2015, 04:48:26 PM

Quote from: Dale Wilkerson, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Nietzsche’s philosophy contemplates the meaning of values and their significance to human existence. Given that no absolute values exist, in Nietzsche’s worldview, the evolution of values on earth must be measured by some other means. How then shall they be understood? The existence of a value presupposes a value-positing perspective, and values are created by human beings (and perhaps other value-positing agents) as aids for survival and growth. Because values are important for the well being of the human animal, because belief in them is essential to our existence, we oftentimes prefer to forget that values are our own creations and to live through them as if they were absolute. For these reasons, social institutions enforcing adherence to inherited values are permitted to create self-serving economies of power, so long as individuals living through them are thereby made more secure and their possibilities for life enhanced. Nevertheless, from time to time the values we inherit are deemed no longer suitable and the continued enforcement of them no longer stands in the service of life. To maintain allegiance to such values, even when they no longer seem practicable, turns what once served the advantage to individuals to a disadvantage, and what was once the prudent deployment of values into a life denying abuse of power. When this happens the human being must reactivate its creative, value-positing capacities and construct new values.

(Colorization mine.)

Can you stop copy pasting tons of stuff and formulate your point or opinion if you have one? You're not understanding what i'm saying. And its pretty simple. Giving central authority over a decentralized body make it not decentralized anymore. That would effectively kill what Bitcoin is.

Was that in an acceptable form to be understood?

username18333

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Knowledge could but approximate existence.

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 23, 2015, 12:17:32 AM

Haha. A USian. Interesting. Well its not like i don't understand the need at some point to go around civil liberties to get information needed to hunt down dangerous criminals. However allowing this in a decentralized network would quite simply expediently destroy it.

Your second point demonstrates that you "don't understand the need at some point to go around civil liberties" (VirosaGITS).

Quote from: username18333 on June 05, 2015, 04:48:26 PM

Quote from: Dale Wilkerson, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Nietzsche’s philosophy contemplates the meaning of values and their significance to human existence. Given that no absolute values exist, in Nietzsche’s worldview, the evolution of values on earth must be measured by some other means. How then shall they be understood? The existence of a value presupposes a value-positing perspective, and values are created by human beings (and perhaps other value-positing agents) as aids for survival and growth. Because values are important for the well being of the human animal, because belief in them is essential to our existence, we oftentimes prefer to forget that values are our own creations and to live through them as if they were absolute. For these reasons, social institutions enforcing adherence to inherited values are permitted to create self-serving economies of power, so long as individuals living through them are thereby made more secure and their possibilities for life enhanced. Nevertheless, from time to time the values we inherit are deemed no longer suitable and the continued enforcement of them no longer stands in the service of life. To maintain allegiance to such values, even when they no longer seem practicable, turns what once served the advantage to individuals to a disadvantage, and what was once the prudent deployment of values into a life denying abuse of power. When this happens the human being must reactivate its creative, value-positing capacities and construct new values.

(Colorization mine.)

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: tvbcof on August 23, 2015, 12:13:08 AM

Quote from: username18333 on August 22, 2015, 11:58:08 PM

You seem not to have "[H]earnd" (tvbcof) of satire (prior that post). (See below.)

Damn spell-checker Wink

Quote from: username18333 on August 22, 2015, 11:58:08 PM

Quote from: Samuel Adams

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

I (a USian) actually have spent most of my life being pretty down on the U.S. We were deeply involved in Vietnam when I entered life on Earth, and it's been down-hill from there in a lot of ways. As I study history I am becoming more of an 'American Patriot' I must say. There are, or at least there were, some things about this country which were actually really impressive. Samuel Adams and some of his contemporaries have a lot to do with this.

edit: get quotes right-ish.

Haha. A USian. Interesting. Well its not like i don't understand the need at some point to go around civil liberties to get information needed to hunt down dangerous criminals. However allowing this in a decentralized network would quite simply expediently destroy it.

tvbcof

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Quote from: username18333 on August 22, 2015, 11:58:08 PM

You seem not to have "[H]earnd" (tvbcof) of satire (prior that post). (See below.)

Damn spell-checker Wink

Quote from: username18333 on August 22, 2015, 11:58:08 PM

Quote from: Samuel Adams

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

I (a USian) actually have spent most of my life being pretty down on the U.S. We were deeply involved in Vietnam when I entered life on Earth, and it's been down-hill from there in a lot of ways. As I study history I am becoming more of an 'American Patriot' I must say. There are, or at least there were, some things about this country which were actually really impressive. Samuel Adams and some of his contemporaries have a lot to do with this.

edit: get quotes right-ish.

username18333

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 11:50:08 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on August 22, 2015, 11:47:43 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 11:41:56 PM

[...]

The world is full of mean and scary terrorists, dangerious drug lords, disgusting pedos, tax cheats who cause the good law abiding citizens to pay more than their share, etc. Why would 'we' NOT want those who are looking out for us to have the tools needed to do their jobs as efficiently as possible? Individual liberties have to be sacrificed for the common good sometimes, you know. Haven't you [H]earnd?

You sound like a American Patriot. Sorry but no. I don't mind if a drug lord has 1 million bitcoin and is sitting on it. The authorities oughta go do their job without undermining civil liberties.

(Colorization mine.)

You seem not to have "[H]earnd" (tvbcof) of satire (prior that post). (See below.)

Quote from: Samuel Adams (1722‒1803 CE)

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: tvbcof on August 22, 2015, 11:47:43 PM

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 11:41:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on August 22, 2015, 11:36:57 PM

One of the 'features' which I would expect to see in the XT pipeline would be what I call a 'forced spend'. This would happen when black- or white-listing and individual identity systems were rolled in and proven. A year or two.

A forced spend would be something like 'you have a year to dig out your deep storage wallet and send your coins to yourself (or whoever you choose) else they will no longer be valid.' In this way the entire currency base would be known and a good starting point would be in place. We are in an 'unfortunate' situation now where there are plenty of BTC which are not really understood by those nice people who are protecting us from terrorists and stuff.

The way this would effect Causius Coin (or whatever it was) would be that people would have to break the seal. An alternative would probably be that the holder could produce them for physical inspection and registration.

Why in the world something such as this should be needed, required or wanted?

Beside the huge annoyance of having to resend your coin to the same address. Refreshing if you will. It serve no purpose.

The world is full of mean and scary terrorists, dangerious drug lords, disgusting pedos, tax cheats who cause the good law abiding citizens to pay more than their share, etc. Why would 'we' NOT want those who are looking out for us to have the tools needed to do their jobs as efficiently as possible? Individual liberties have to be sacrificed for the common good sometimes, you know. Haven't you hearnd?

You sound like a American Patriot. Sorry but no. I don't mind if a drug lord has 1 million bitcoin and is sitting on it. The authorities oughta go do their job without undermining civil liberties.

tvbcof

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 11:41:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on August 22, 2015, 11:36:57 PM

One of the 'features' which I would expect to see in the XT pipeline would be what I call a 'forced spend'. This would happen when black- or white-listing and individual identity systems were rolled in and proven. A year or two.

A forced spend would be something like 'you have a year to dig out your deep storage wallet and send your coins to yourself (or whoever you choose) else they will no longer be valid.' In this way the entire currency base would be known and a good starting point would be in place. We are in an 'unfortunate' situation now where there are plenty of BTC which are not really understood by those nice people who are protecting us from terrorists and stuff.

The way this would effect Causius Coin (or whatever it was) would be that people would have to break the seal. An alternative would probably be that the holder could produce them for physical inspection and registration.

Why in the world something such as this should be needed, required or wanted?

Beside the huge annoyance of having to resend your coin to the same address. Refreshing if you will. It serve no purpose.

The world is full of mean and scary terrorists, dangerious drug lords, disgusting pedos, tax cheats who cause the good law abiding citizens to pay more than their share, etc. Why would 'we' NOT want those who are looking out for us to have the tools needed to do their jobs as efficiently as possible? Individual liberties have to be sacrificed for the common good sometimes, you know. Haven't you hearnd?

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: tvbcof on August 22, 2015, 11:36:57 PM

One of the 'features' which I would expect to see in the XT pipeline would be what I call a 'forced spend'. This would happen when black- or white-listing and individual identity systems were rolled in and proven. A year or two.

A forced spend would be something like 'you have a year to dig out your deep storage wallet and send your coins to yourself (or whoever you choose) else they will no longer be valid.' In this way the entire currency base would be known and a good starting point would be in place. We are in an 'unfortunate' situation now where there are plenty of BTC which are not really understood by those nice people who are protecting us from terrorists and stuff.

The way this would effect Causius Coin (or whatever it was) would be that people would have to break the seal. An alternative would probably be that the holder could produce them for physical inspection and registration.

Why in the world something such as this should be needed, required or wanted?

Beside the huge annoyance of having to resend your coin to the same address. Refreshing if you will. It serve no purpose.

tvbcof

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One of the 'features' which I would expect to see in the XT pipeline would be what I call a 'forced spend'. This would happen when black- or white-listing and individual identity systems were rolled in and proven. A year or two.

A forced spend would be something like 'you have a year to dig out your deep storage wallet and send your coins to yourself (or whoever you choose) else they will no longer be valid.' In this way the entire currency base would be known and a good starting point would be in place. We are in an 'unfortunate' situation now where there are plenty of BTC which are not really understood by those nice people who are protecting us from terrorists and stuff.

The way this would effect Causius Coin (or whatever it was) would be that people would have to break the seal. An alternative would probably be that the holder could produce them for physical inspection and registration.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: Possum577 on August 22, 2015, 10:57:32 PM

Quote from: GPUmonitor on August 22, 2015, 09:58:01 PM

Quote from: Delek on August 22, 2015, 08:07:18 PM

There are new physical bitcoins?, this could be a problem after the fork of course.

I don't think so! Please check previous comments. The bitcoin will be always kept there. They are the same chain until the fork happen, the chain will be different!

Ha, this doesn't answer his questions.

There are not any new Casascius physical coins. There are other physical coins that serve as wallets for bitcoin and other alt currencies.

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 10:51:45 PM

XT wants to keep the blockchain so they would work fine, but i think XT is pretty bad considering it contain codes not relevant to block size limit that could cause serious issues down the road.

So far its mostly noise and there isint much adoption for XT but hopefully new users and pools/big farms won't adopt it.

What issues could arise down the road?

What issues could happen when you allow the dev to upload a blacklist of IP?
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/commit/73c9efe74c5cc8faea9c2b2c785a2f5b68aa4c23

Maybe you can read it and tell me if you see the same security risk as me.

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Quote from: GPUmonitor on August 22, 2015, 09:58:01 PM

Quote from: Delek on August 22, 2015, 08:07:18 PM

There are new physical bitcoins?, this could be a problem after the fork of course.

I don't think so! Please check previous comments. The bitcoin will be always kept there. They are the same chain until the fork happen, the chain will be different!

Ha, this doesn't answer his questions.

There are not any new Casascius physical coins. There are other physical coins that serve as wallets for bitcoin and other alt currencies.

Quote from: VirosaGITS on August 22, 2015, 10:51:45 PM

XT wants to keep the blockchain so they would work fine, but i think XT is pretty bad considering it contain codes not relevant to block size limit that could cause serious issues down the road.

So far its mostly noise and there isint much adoption for XT but hopefully new users and pools/big farms won't adopt it.

What issues could arise down the road?

VirosaGITS

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XT wants to keep the blockchain so they would work fine, but i think XT is pretty bad considering it contain codes not relevant to block size limit that could cause serious issues down the road.

So far its mostly noise and there isint much adoption for XT but hopefully new users and pools/big farms won't adopt it.

GPUmonitor

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Quote from: Delek on August 22, 2015, 08:07:18 PM

There are new physical bitcoins?, this could be a problem after the fork of course.

I don't think so! Please check previous comments. The bitcoin will be always kept there. They are the same chain until the fork happen, the chain will be different!

Delek

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Salí para ver

There are new physical bitcoins?, this could be a problem after the fork of course.

unamis76

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It doesn't. The coins you have there will remain after the fork, if there is one. They will also "survive" any fork, obviously, as the blockchain is still the same.

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

How does XT influence physical bitcoins (e.g., Casascius)?

I presume that if the bitcoin on the coin were withdrawn from the wallet it would just be compatible with the XT system, but would this remain true 10 or 20 or more years from now?

Topic: How does XT influence physical bitcoins? (Read 925 times)