How justified will it be to use a blockchain without a cryptocurrency?

hase0278

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Quote from: Brunusmagnus on February 23, 2018, 07:00:39 PM

There are a lot of potential uses for the blockchain, and we are just exploring them.
There are application in properties, in real estate, in keeping trace of works and school titles, ecc.
So, we'll see.

You are right but will we ever see someone using blockchain without involving cryptocurrency? I think for now selected few will think of doing so as it can be inconvenient to use blockchain without crypto. That being said, I am excited to hear news about blockchain being used without cryptocurrency since that is one milestone for it. Still, I prefer if those who wants to harness the blockchain tech uses cryptocurrency as well.

btc.xbt.btc

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The blockchain is just a type of technology that allows backtracing of data with the use of a specific algorithm. Cryptocurrency is just one of the more popular application of blockchain, but the technology exists regardless of crypto.

Lora_ng15

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as the block can be useless I do not understand, it guarantees transparency and security, it is very useful and without a crypto currency

alyssa85

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You can have a PRIVATE ledger without a coin, but you can't have a distributed ledger.

Because the point of distributed ledgers is that the miners are around the world and unconnected to each other and they need an incentive to mine and keep the ledger - mining coins.

And the whole point of distributed ledgers is that there is no central point of failure (because it's distributed around the world) and it is trustless.

As for private ledgers, there is no point to them - you could as easily have the current system of a central database for the same cost, because private ledgers are neither trustless nor distributed, so why bother?

Brunusmagnus

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There are a lot of potential uses for the blockchain, and we are just exploring them.
There are application in properties, in real estate, in keeping trace of works and school titles, ecc.
So, we'll see.

GreenPowerRanger

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The question is really, why should somebody share the whole data on the blockchain when there are no rewards? So the hardware is expensive and also the elctricity, it would be a huge lose. I dont think that blockchain can work without a cryptocurrencie, because the people want want to earn something or minimal to pay the cost of the hardware and the electricity.

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Quote from: shursight on February 18, 2018, 05:11:23 PM

So.. are you serious or are you trolling? Or maybe i guess that you are just a newbie guy who do not even know what a "blockchain" is.

No Blockchain - No crypto
No crypto - No blockchain.

Please explain more specifically, why do you think so?

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Quote from: laurenB7742 on February 18, 2018, 05:02:07 PM

Quote from: Fazlurkhan.kz on February 18, 2018, 04:37:01 PM

Coin is not a necessary condition for a proof of stake blockchain. Not all coins are dependent on blockchain, just the standards might get changed. And the real problem will be the loss of postions such as miners will be eradicated.

Exactly, you don't need tokens or coins to store data in the blockchain. There could be a blockchain just to store all names and basic birth data of all citizens and new data could be added with smart contracts (births, deaths, name changes...). There is no purpose for a currency here. Of course, such blockchain would need to be proof of stake or other concept which is not proof of work because no-one would want to mine new blocks for a blockchain that has no block rewards.

How do you secure a public blockchain without financial incentive though? Proof of Stake still implies that the system uses some form of valuable token, otherwise there'd be nothing to stake with. For Proof of Stake to work there needs to be something at stake apart from the data being stored. And even then its security is not without dispute.

Of course you could create a permissioned or private blockchain, but then you lose all the benefits of a blockchain and are just back at distributed databases.

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Quote from: shursight on February 18, 2018, 05:11:23 PM

So.. are you serious or are you trolling? Or maybe i guess that you are just a newbie guy who do not even know what a "blockchain" is.

No Blockchain - No crypto
No crypto - No blockchain.

Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

created by satoshi, the first implementation of blockchain technology is bitcoin as cryptocurrency
but the blockchain technology itself can still grow and can be applied to other things
it's true blockchain based on cryptography, but... not tied solely to cryptocurrency

Quote from: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain

A block chain is a transaction database shared by all nodes participating in a system based on the Bitcoin protocol. A full copy of a currency's block chain contains every transaction ever executed in the currency.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain

A blockchain, originally block chain, is a continuously growing list of records, called blocks, which are linked and secured using cryptography. Each block typically contains a cryptographic hash of the previous block, a timestamp and transaction data.

Anco_Marzio

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Why do you think this? Of course, the main use of the blockchain is for cryptocurrencies, but there are a lot of domains where it can be applied with good results.
Actually, we are just at the beginning of a revolution.

Quote from: shursight on February 18, 2018, 05:11:23 PM

So.. are you serious or are you trolling? Or maybe i guess that you are just a newbie guy who do not even know what a "blockchain" is.

No Blockchain - No crypto
No crypto - No blockchain.

Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

shursight

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So.. are you serious or are you trolling? Or maybe i guess that you are just a newbie guy who do not even know what a "blockchain" is.

No Blockchain - No crypto
No crypto - No blockchain.

Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

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Quote from: Fazlurkhan.kz on February 18, 2018, 04:37:01 PM

Coin is not a necessary condition for a proof of stake blockchain. Not all coins are dependent on blockchain, just the standards might get changed. And the real problem will be the loss of postions such as miners will be eradicated.

Exactly, you don't need tokens or coins to store data in the blockchain. There could be a blockchain just to store all names and basic birth data of all citizens and new data could be added with smart contracts (births, deaths, name changes...). There is no purpose for a currency here. Of course, such blockchain would need to be proof of stake or other concept which is not proof of work because no-one would want to mine new blocks for a blockchain that has no block rewards.

I don't think miners will ever be eradicated. I think the original Bitcoin will never switch from PoW. Ethereum will enable PoS soon, but Bitcoin will not. And there will always be some new cryptocurrencies with PoW, no matter how inefficient it is from electric power point of view. Maybe PoW will become a hipster thing but it will never die.

galambo

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Blockchain technology is not only used for making a cryptocurrency and using it as a coin all over the world but it is a very great invention of this era. It can be stated as a second very powerful and use full invention after internet ass it is the future of the digital world. It will help the world to stay away from scam and it will help people to create a very safe and secure system. Blockchain technology has much application in real life and more and more people are coming up with a great idea to work with blockchain. One should know the significance of it and try to make it more useful in every process of technology development.

Magister Magus

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Blockchain is a very simple idea (well, relatively), but with an huge potential of development.
We'll see applications in real estate, medical background, commercial transactions, any kind of public archive...
And - if it really remains decentralized - it will be the biggest revolution humanity has ever seen...

Fazlurkhan.kz

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Coin is not a necessary condition for a proof of stake blockchain. Not all coins are dependent on blockchain, just the standards might get changed. And the real problem will be the loss of postions such as miners will be eradicated.

paul00

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Blockchain doesn’t mean that a cryptocurrency must be present. Although it is initially as part of the crypto currency transactions, it serves as channel in transactions which I think can actually be adapted by other entities.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: rancidgash on January 29, 2018, 02:41:43 PM

Quote from: Ctn on January 29, 2018, 07:49:11 AM

Sure we can use it as Freeman. I mean you can go and have the whole blockchain working for you if you can code in good way. With the help of blockchain you create your own banking system that will transact with your own set of rules. You can have your own bank which is decentralised. I'm not talking about the ICO Which work like that but physical working bank. It will work.

See it's simple, blockchain without crypto will work surely. In best possible way but its up to us how we use it.

Blockchain can be used to maintain universal accounting books where each transaction is stored in chronological order.However, there are applications in a variety of spheres - real estate transactions, copyright for music and books, tracking food supplies or raw materials entering the finished product and what not!

Different variety would really be there but doesn't really matter at all because anything can really be organized which such new innovation. Using blockchain without cryptocurrency can really stand up on his own since this is the technology which do store up data and transfer it on an organized and very fast way which there are lots of governments do already see this stuff which would really have the high chance to be adopted.

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Quote from: Ctn on January 29, 2018, 07:49:11 AM

Sure we can use it as Freeman. I mean you can go and have the whole blockchain working for you if you can code in good way. With the help of blockchain you create your own banking system that will transact with your own set of rules. You can have your own bank which is decentralised. I'm not talking about the ICO Which work like that but physical working bank. It will work.

See it's simple, blockchain without crypto will work surely. In best possible way but its up to us how we use it.

Blockchain can be used to maintain universal accounting books where each transaction is stored in chronological order.However, there are applications in a variety of spheres - real estate transactions, copyright for music and books, tracking food supplies or raw materials entering the finished product and what not!

Ctn

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Sure we can use it as Freeman. I mean you can go and have the whole blockchain working for you if you can code in good way. With the help of blockchain you create your own banking system that will transact with your own set of rules. You can have your own bank which is decentralised. I'm not talking about the ICO Which work like that but physical working bank. It will work.

See it's simple, blockchain without crypto will work surely. In best possible way but its up to us how we use it.

Freshmen

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Quote from: trecore4 on January 29, 2018, 02:04:21 AM

Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

The blockchain is just the platform on which we can mod the things really. For example, with the help of smart contracts based on blockchain we can create big ICO projects and thus the related coins with simple mods in the codes itself.

Whether it is crypto currency or not the blockchain still remains the same at all time. As I said its just the platform on which we can play at our will. If banks would have been in the favour of decentralised chain then could have implemented it already and things could have been faster for the blockchain in terms of the development as traditional swift tech would had blended itself with it. Its just my assumption, reality could be different.

Yes, Blockchain is a very great innovation which can make the currency or digital tokens transfer and use more secure and safe for the people. It also has additional features of keeping the data of the user anonymous and away from the third person. Their and many great ICO's coming here which are based on blockchain and has also got large demand in the society and many people have already invested in it.

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Quote from: GoldenLad on January 29, 2018, 03:34:15 AM

That can never be possible. You already given yourself the right answer, it will be useless. What usefullness is blockchain without the cryptocurrency? I don't even think a thing like that will ever exits because without cryptocurrency there is no blockchain. The evolution of blockchain revolves around the digital currency. Even looking at the new coins that are emerging through ICOs, they need the blockchain to become what they are. Though, I do like to see what it will be like having a blockchain without a currency.

do you even read other people's comment and take them into consideration? some of them have valid point of views
the idea of blockchain is storing public data distributed amongst the users in the network
hence no centralized server which would be easily to tamper with and modify
blockchain != cryptocurrency, but blockchain technology was invented for cryptocurrency

Quote

Even looking at the new coins that are emerging through ICOs, they need the blockchain to become what they are. Though, I do like to see what it will be like having a blockchain without a currency.

Emerging ICOs = tokens? they are using the current blockchain as platform to make it cheaper to operate
and remember most ICO tokens are scams and even if they're not their lifespan depends on the platform's sustainability
if the platform failed, even a most successful ICOs would also fall with it (none happened yet as I know)

read what jseverson posted in his post, the land registry is one of the possibilities out there.
we need more people with bright ideas working on the blockchain technology and applying it to something else
the internet technology is used for a whole lot different things now compared to the first time it was invented for

GoldenLad

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That can never be possible. You already given yourself the right answer, it will be useless. What usefullness is blockchain without the cryptocurrency? I don't even think a thing like that will ever exits because without cryptocurrency there is no blockchain. The evolution of blockchain revolves around the digital currency. Even looking at the new coins that are emerging through ICOs, they need the blockchain to become what they are. Though, I do like to see what it will be like having a blockchain without a currency.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

The blockchain is just the platform on which we can mod the things really. For example, with the help of smart contracts based on blockchain we can create big ICO projects and thus the related coins with simple mods in the codes itself.

Whether it is crypto currency or not the blockchain still remains the same at all time. As I said its just the platform on which we can play at our will. If banks would have been in the favour of decentralised chain then could have implemented it already and things could have been faster for the blockchain in terms of the development as traditional swift tech would had blended itself with it. Its just my assumption, reality could be different.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

Here is a quick rundown of how bankers can utilize the blockchain for their current needs, along with the existing challenges of migrating to a blockchain-based system:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2017/08/10/practical-examples-of-how-blockchains-are-used-in-banking-and-the-financial-services-sector

One other example of non-crypto blockchain use is Dubai's planned land registry, and other possible government projects in the future:

https://www.coindesk.com/dubai-land-department-launches-blockchain-real-estate-initiative/

It's a common misconception that blockchain = cryptocurrency, but the blockchain is a revolutionary technology that has been turning heads for its potential. Bitcoin is more popular than the tech it's built on right now, but who knows, the blockchain technology might reach mainstream adoption before Bitcoin does lol.

Magister Magus

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It seems that very few people understand that the real conceptual revolution is not bitcoin, but the blockchain.
Out of cryptocurrencies, it has so many potential applications that it will change completely our life, in the same way internet did 20 years ago.
Probably more.
So, even in case that there won't cryptocurrency, blockchain existence will be totally justified.

Hovhannes

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There is one question, the costs of maintaining a "blockchain" and the benefits of this "blockchain" without a cryptocurrency. I mean that the blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be too expensive.

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I don't think without cryptocurrency Blockchain will become useless

). Cryptocurrency is just a product of blockchain technology and it's not everything of blockchain technology, it seem like an example for the advantages of this technology. Because of the quickly development of cryptocurrency in few recent years, it make a lot of people pay attention to this technology

. In the future I think it'll become the most important part of the economy all over the world even without cryptocurrency

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Blockchain has many applications-- it's perfect for wherever decentralization is helpful. Currency is one example. Storing health or credit data are two others. There are probably more use cases outside the blockchain.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

Don't focus yourself on cryptocurrencies alone if we're talking about blockchain technology, it is designed to function from general usages to different types of fields and perspectives, it can be used for real estates, healthcare, different types of systems and programs, schools, advertisement platforms and other fields which need to work decentralized or for the one who needs the peer to peer feature of it, blockchain is a flexible solution to those who need its features for their own purposes.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

Blockchain have a lot of applications and don't always require that it be used for financial transactions. A very obvious use for example is land registry. Once loaded into the chain, it would be hard for the records to be destroyed or falsified. There are a lot of other applications as well.

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It's called private blockchain and mostly preferable for government or public records that needs approval like health records, credit records etc. Some companies started using private blockchains and we will see more use scenarios in future...

fiulpro

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Well I think you should know that the technology of blockchain is used in our daily lives without even noticing, we all are a part of it and that's just something everyone should know about, blockchain is mainly helpful for documentation, it's used in banks , hospitals , Schools and that's not really expensive .

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:56:13 AM

Quote from: darkangel11 on January 27, 2018, 11:45:55 AM

Blockchain isn't only used for transactions. The blockchain technology can be used to vote, it can be used to verify rolls , like they do in provably fair gambling. You don't need a coin being transferred to do that. Bankers are already looking for ways to adapt blockchain to be able to use it to verify normal fiat transfers. This way the whole process can be automated and they'll be able to get rid of some employees thus making it cheaper and faster. I believe that blockchain technology will be a much bigger hit than BTC itself, because it can be made to work in the current financial system and improve it without the need for people to choose if they like this or that.

But for such a system to function, it will require large investments. Will these costs be justified?

If you're asking about using blockchain to verify gambling bets it's already justified and wan't expensive to implement. People are doing such things basically for tips and allowing others to use the code for free. If we're talking about banks it should pay for itself because once it's ready the system can run for the next 20 years without the need for improvement. Think of the money a team of bank clerks would demand to do the same thing.

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Quote from: Bonsaiav on January 27, 2018, 01:22:13 PM

Should, the government and the bankers be ashamed of their actions, they simultaneously firmly and vehemently deny the existence of bitcoin, while the technology is adopted or may be stolen by them. To me, blockchain is a great system, blockchain is able to accurately record, and speed up transaction processing that occurs, with blockchain, transactions can be done easily, without a presence of a third party.

Not totally a surprising thing which government would really have the plan take advantage and might claimed that they did make that technology which they are really trying anytime to re-divert on its actual first usage which is on cryptocurrency and now they are seeing its total usefulness into other things which it is really applicable and a good innovation if its being applied.For now it is already being considered and I'm sure it would really be used on upcoming years,blockchain just like a backbone on where all transactions do happen.

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Should, the government and the bankers be ashamed of their actions, they simultaneously firmly and vehemently deny the existence of bitcoin, while the technology is adopted or may be stolen by them. To me, blockchain is a great system, blockchain is able to accurately record, and speed up transaction processing that occurs, with blockchain, transactions can be done easily, without a presence of a third party.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on January 27, 2018, 11:45:55 AM

Blockchain isn't only used for transactions. The blockchain technology can be used to vote, it can be used to verify rolls , like they do in provably fair gambling. You don't need a coin being transferred to do that. Bankers are already looking for ways to adapt blockchain to be able to use it to verify normal fiat transfers. This way the whole process can be automated and they'll be able to get rid of some employees thus making it cheaper and faster. I believe that blockchain technology will be a much bigger hit than BTC itself, because it can be made to work in the current financial system and improve it without the need for people to choose if they like this or that.

But for such a system to function, it will require large investments. Will these costs be justified?

darkangel11

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Blockchain isn't only used for transactions. The blockchain technology can be used to vote, it can be used to verify rolls , like they do in provably fair gambling. You don't need a coin being transferred to do that. Bankers are already looking for ways to adapt blockchain to be able to use it to verify normal fiat transfers. This way the whole process can be automated and they'll be able to get rid of some employees thus making it cheaper and faster. I believe that blockchain technology will be a much bigger hit than BTC itself, because it can be made to work in the current financial system and improve it without the need for people to choose if they like this or that.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

Any proof of stake blockchain does not need a coin. Not all coins are dependable on the blockchain and cryptocurrency could survive without it just with different standards. The problem lies in the loss of many different positions in the chain. For example- The word miner would lose its meaning in the crypto world. Interesting concept of the blockchains without the coins is explained in the link below.

https://medium.com/@pavelkravchenko/does-a-blockchain-really-need-a-native-coin-f6a5ff2a13a3

Basmic

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The effectiveness of the blockchein depends on the number of users who are interested in the existence of this proiect and ready to support it with their capacity. Those who make their own conclusions as to the effectiveness of blockchain based on the success of cryptocurrency, but they do not take into account the fact that users are financially interested. What the government can offer? They can only take the latter.

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Quote from: Hovhannes on January 27, 2018, 11:12:52 AM

Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

I don't think such a thing can happen, by a currency operating on the blockchain it in essence becomes a cryptocurrency, therefore FIAT currencies could not do so.

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Now very often statesmen and bankers talk about a blockchain without a cryptocurrency. They do not explain how much this will be useful and what expenses will be required. I think that a blockchain without a cryptocurrency will be very expensive and useless.

Topic: How justified will it be to use a blockchain without a cryptocurrency? (Read 621 times)