How much BTC would you need to buy to increase the price by 1 percent?

carlisle1

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Quote from: crabby on July 29, 2020, 07:15:23 PM

I apologize for the broken link, it has been fixed now!

Thanks, I'm reading it now and see that from the assessments you said that it only needs $90M to move bitcoin to alleast reach 1% pumped.

Quote from: crabby on July 29, 2020, 07:15:23 PM

I agree with a lot of the discussion here. The markets are always changing, so the amount it takes to move the market 1% will change over time.

Good point and if you'll be considering this you'll be able to get more data that you can compile to back up your
studies, there are many factors that you have to analyze in order to get a closer outputs within the
topic that you wanted to pursue.

Quote from: crabby on July 29, 2020, 07:15:23 PM

Maybe there is a way we could study how much it takes to move the markets over time? Would anyone be interested in a study like that?

Sharing this would be great, there are many people who wanted to learned new ideas and if this study
become steady, it will give traders a good chance to make some short benefits.

bitgolden

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It is cool to know that there is only 50 million dollars cash required just to increase bitcoin 2% and that means about 25 million dollar or so would be required to change it 1%. But do you know what is not calculated in any of this? The fact that you need basically half of this when you are making a big increase. Just to give an example 2% increase is 50 million dollars right?

Well, 10% increase is not 250 million dollars, put in about 100-150 million dollars all of a sudden to the market and you can be sure that others will take care of the rest, so you will be at 10% increase with 100 million dollars into the market and not 4% increase. All of that due to people panic buying, I know people think panic selling is a big thing but panic buying is a real thing as well.

DarkDays

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Plenty of platforms provide this functionality built right in, so you can easily see how much volume is needed to move the price by X%.

Taking a look at Decentr for example:

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/decentr#markets

We can see that the +2% depth is currently $7,537, whereas the -2% depth is $7,514. By halving this you can get a rough estimate of what the -1% depth is in either direction for your exchange of choice.

Simply change Decentr to whichever coin you're trying to analyze, e.g. Bitcoin:

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin#markets

Ethereum:

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/ethereum#markets

etc.

crabby

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I apologize for the broken link, it has been fixed now!

I agree with a lot of the discussion here. The markets are always changing, so the amount it takes to move the market 1% will change over time. Maybe there is a way we could study how much it takes to move the markets over time? Would anyone be interested in a study like that?

BrewMaster

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one thing that is usually neglected when talking about this particular subject is the timing and timing is everything in a market specially one like bitcoin's.
take 2017 for example. we had multiple cases of a lot of whales trying to supress the rise and sell to crash the price and prevent its rise but they lost a lot of money without the price ever changing its upward direction. looking at the orderbooks at that time would have shown a small support that could theoretically be broken easily but realistically it was a lot bigger.
why? because the time was time of rise and any drop meant a huge surge in number of buys that didn't exist before.
suffice it to say that it is the same for rise too.

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Quote from: akram143 on July 27, 2020, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: sheenshane on July 27, 2020, 06:58:22 PM

moving Bitcoin into another address might probably will also can cause an impact of the Bitcoin price movement.

Literally they have no effect on the bitcoin's valuation because it doesn't involves in trading so there won't be increase or decrease in its price but actually if a whale moves few thousand bitcoins then it will have some psychological affect on traders so it could manipulate the price if traders responds to it.

Exactly.
But that's assuming the coin is moved to different address for reasons order than selling or buying. Maybe just moved to another address controlled by thesame person...
I guess the whale-alert kind of services also provide or guess where large amounts are moved to be able to make better price prediction.. Moving to exchanges addresses could easily mean selling for fiat, regular trading, selling for other crypto etc

Harlot

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I like your theory here but it doesn't necessarily mean you need over 90 million dollars to pump Bitcoin by 1% because technically you took your calculations in the wrong way and that is combining the top crypto exchanges where you don't necessarily need to do so because Bitcoin can be pump in just 1 exchange where you can effectively used lesser money to pump Bitcoin by 1%. Maybe create a new kind of article where you show the prices on how much people need to pump Bitcoin on each exchange rather than combining all of them.

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Quote from: davis196 on July 28, 2020, 06:55:51 AM

~snip~
In reality,you don't need 91M USD to pump the price.You just need some insider information or some rumors that are compelling enough to make the people wanna buy Bitcoins.

This method is also carried out by crypto whales. The pope made some information about bitcoin rumors that would make bitcoin purchases increasingly. Spread interesting rumors about bitcoin, then prices will start rising without the need for $ 91 million USD just to raise 1% of BTC prices. It only requires a few large media to spread the rumors and automatically the way it will work.

An individual will be very difficult to make the price of bitcoin go up% 1, need someone else to make the price of bitcoin go up and that is done with a variety of strategies.

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on July 28, 2020, 01:14:33 PM

hmm $91 million is a huge amount, and I think none of the whales are that aggressive to inject this sum of money in uncertain market, it's a risky trap for them to set up, people might wanna get lose if they see a 1% increase in bitcoin price. But we are seeing an increase of 1% to 2% every hour, does this mean that individuals do buy bitcoin amounting respectively to $91 million, and doubled? I don't really believe that whales don't talk to each other lol, at some point they have known each other and contacting everyone to do 1% increase.

So I'm just 0.0000001% of the 1% increased price. Poor being Grin

Its came from different persons that's why its easy to get the 1% price change every hour or even in just a minute.

Different exchange have different orders so if you want to increase the price for 1% in one exchange you can do it without using that large amount of money. other do an arbitrage trade so they can earn from price difference in other exchange.

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Quote from: davis196 on July 28, 2020, 06:55:51 AM

So an individual would need to buy BTC that's worth 91 million dollars to pump the price by 1%.
OK,but is it possible for an individual to buy BTC worth 91 million USD?The crypto whales know how to do this,but I assume that they have a team of traders and accountants and are running their crypto business under their companies.
In reality,you don't need 91M USD to pump the price.You just need some insider information or some rumors that are compelling enough to make the people wanna buy Bitcoins.

Well, it is solely considering the price movement that the link provided by OP gives tbh. Other factors can be moved aside for now, but we all know that there are still underlying factors that influence price, from influencers to market news, etc. However though, a price tag of 91 million USD to increase the price by 1% seems too high, a simple push of the market by investing even only a portion of that amount should be more than enough. As for the price itself? That would be up for debate since it isn't like the buy and sell difference remain the same for the entire market trade, they change by the minute as well.

Add that to various news that could influence others, whether it be FUD or not, you'd expect to be seeing a huge change in price. It's like a stack of stuff piled upon each other, a single quake may not be enough to topple it down, but multiple ones of varying degrees could immediately show changes with its structure.

samcrypto

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Good topic and Its amazing how they computed it but the link is not working so I can’t see if its really possible to know how much we needed to move bitcoin by at least 1% considering the many exchanges and many ways to buy bitcoin.

Quote from: bolawin on July 28, 2020, 05:18:06 PM

you can move whatever percentage you want, you just need ask satoshi nakamoto for a loan.

As if we knows who’s Satoshi, so this is really impossible to ask for a loan with Satoshi. Cheesy

Yamifoud

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If we can afford to buy more Bitcoin (just like to say 1BTC), that is really comfortable enough to have such profit gains. But the risk is also higher than those who have only a few Bitcoin in their wallet and I'm sure that not all have that guts either to funds that amount.

What really matters now is to manage it carefully because 1% gains are not really that hard to imagine if we are good at trading. It is to think that even though we have a lot of Bitcoins to trade but if we are able to manage carefully and being careless enough even that 1% seems to be impossible.

Quote from: Cryptopher on July 27, 2020, 05:55:14 PM

The link itself is broken, though I managed to find my way to https://blog.shrimpy.io/blog/how-much-it-takes-to-pump-bitcoin-by-1-percent

Me too but thanks, I use the link you have posted to see the content inside... Wink

bolawin

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you can move whatever percentage you want, you just need ask satoshi nakamoto for a loan.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 28, 2020, 06:15:54 AM

You still need a significant initial amount, and the right conditions, but you certainly don't need the entire $91 million yourself.

Yes, in the article they put a very simple scenario and a bit of a lazy one, an assumption that everyone will just stick to the trades already set, there will be no one dumping, there will be no one withdrawing their sell order and placing them higher . Also, it is implying that you have to move the price on all the exchanges, not taking into account the herd effect Grin

if a reputable exchange jumps suddenly and arbitrage bots are taken off guard without enough funds.
This was clearly not long ago when simple sudden dumps of 1k range BTC managed to crush the price

Besides, there is a far easier way and even lazier than this, all exchanges have an estimated trading feature where you simply input how much you're willing to try and they will show you what's the average price you will get and the max price you pay for.

Quote from: el kaka22 on July 28, 2020, 12:41:37 PM

I didn't get it, it says that there was 90 million bought and 67 million sold, lets say 23 million for short and there was 1% increase. First of all we all know it will not be same all the time but lets assume for a moment that its always the same and 23 million difference means 1% increase. That means we do not need 90 million to increase right? I mean there is already some buy and sell going on anyway, we just need whatever the difference is right now and to make it 23 million.

No, he is right, you have to buy 90 million to create that difference at the current sell volume, If nobody would sell, yeah, you would only need 23 million, but that's not the case.
You're assuming your 23mill second buy on top of this will not encounter any resistance.

Lordhermes

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Increasing bitcoin price by 1% is mainly the work of whales the bigger boys. But certainly, no whales can use such amount of $91m to project that itself alone, its a risky move. Accumulating several amount of btc moves it.
Nobody talks about what amount of btc to sell to drop it down by -50%, if whales know this, then poor traders are in a big fish of trouble.

Twentyonepaylots

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hmm $91 million is a huge amount, and I think none of the whales are that aggressive to inject this sum of money in uncertain market, it's a risky trap for them to set up, people might wanna get lose if they see a 1% increase in bitcoin price. But we are seeing an increase of 1% to 2% every hour, does this mean that individuals do buy bitcoin amounting respectively to $91 million, and doubled? I don't really believe that whales don't talk to each other lol, at some point they have known each other and contacting everyone to do 1% increase.

So I'm just 0.0000001% of the 1% increased price. Poor being Grin

el kaka22

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I didn't get it, it says that there was 90 million bought and 67 million sold, lets say 23 million for short and there was 1% increase. First of all we all know it will not be same all the time but lets assume for a moment that its always the same and 23 million difference means 1% increase. That means we do not need 90 million to increase right? I mean there is already some buy and sell going on anyway, we just need whatever the difference is right now and to make it 23 million.

So, let's say there is 70 million buys and 50 million sells, that means with 3 million I could make it an even 1%. Or if I want to do it all by myself, no matter what the difference is or not, I could just spend 23 million and increase it 1% more than what it is right now. I am not sure if it requires 90 million.

so98nn

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Quote from: Cryptopher on July 27, 2020, 05:55:14 PM

Interesting post. It really does highlight the scale of investment required to boost the price - importantly it has to be coordinated, which usually comes with good news, and good vibes, oh and a seed pump to get things going.

The link itself is broken, though I managed to find my way to https://blog.shrimpy.io/blog/how-much-it-takes-to-pump-bitcoin-by-1-percent

Thanks for re-posting the link, the OP's one isnt working.

Well the blog is thoroughly written and most of the exchanges seems to be assessed nicely.

The point where you talk about the fake volume, could be due to temporary surge of volume. Let us say, people saw movement in the overall market and this led the users of those two exchangers that is Huobi and BitMart started to buy the bitcoin at the same time. I mean this altogether pumping might be one of the reason but not necessarily.

So at the end you pointed out 91M is the kinda money that needs to move the market and that also tells us one more thing here : The market can easily be manipulated by so called whales, since 91M is like drop in ocean for them. Lolz. Enjoyed reading it.

bitbunnny

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Very interesting question but actually I don't know how to calculate this. I don't know if there is anyone that studies Bitcoin market so seriously that could make some relevant calculations. I guess that every fugure that appears here would be pure guessing although this might encourage someone to make relevant analysis. And it would be really interesting to see the final result so if market really reacted with price increase.

davis196

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So an individual would need to buy BTC that's worth 91 million dollars to pump the price by 1%.
OK,but is it possible for an individual to buy BTC worth 91 million USD?The crypto whales know how to do this,but I assume that they have a team of traders and accountants and are running their crypto business under their companies.
In reality,you don't need 91M USD to pump the price.You just need some insider information or some rumors that are compelling enough to make the people wanna buy Bitcoins.

o_e_l_e_o

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An interesting read. I don't agree with your conclusion that an individual needs $91 million to move the price by >1% though. At any given time there are thousands of bitcoin locked up in various bots and orders. As we've seen in the past, a relatively small move is enough to start off a chain reaction of orders being filled, positions being opened and closed, and bots trading, which can result in very sudden price movements. You still need a significant initial amount, and the right conditions, but you certainly don't need the entire $91 million yourself.

It does highlight the folly of trading low market cap altcoins though. It doesn't take much to be able to wildly manipulate the prices of these coins.

Quote from: akram143 on July 27, 2020, 08:07:36 PM

but actually if a whale moves few thousand bitcoins then it will have some psychological affect on traders so it could manipulate the price if traders responds to it.

Whale Alert on Twitter being temporarily shut down was great, but unfortunately they were re-instated. I'll always remember back in 2018 when Coinbase announced weeks in advance they were upgrading their cold storage, made several blog and Twitter posts about it, posted a running commentary of what they were doing, and Whale Alert and low value crypto "media" sites still manufactured a panic when some ~850,000 bitcoin were moved.

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Quote from: sheenshane on July 27, 2020, 06:58:22 PM

moving Bitcoin into another address might probably will also can cause an impact of the Bitcoin price movement.

Literally they have no effect on the bitcoin's valuation because it doesn't involves in trading so there won't be increase or decrease in its price but actually if a whale moves few thousand bitcoins then it will have some psychological affect on traders so it could manipulate the price if traders responds to it.

sheenshane

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Very interesting topic and I opened the link provided above because OP link shared is broken and I can open.

These big transactions might cause the whales to try to play the market price and manipulate it. For normal holders can't afford even $1M and probably only the whales can make a massive movement of Bitcoin even twice of $100M in Bitcoin that can make a 1% increased.

I think that not only buying can increase the percentage of price in Bitcoin, moving Bitcoin into another address might probably will also can cause an impact of the Bitcoin price movement.

JeromeTash

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I wish you would put a small summary of the content in the blog/article you are trying to link. It would make it easy for one to know if the article is of their interest or not. The title is usually not enough.

Note: For some reason you link isn't even working, So nothing to discuss since i have no idea what in there.

Cryptopher

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Keep it dense, yeah?

Interesting post. It really does highlight the scale of investment required to boost the price - importantly it has to be coordinated, which usually comes with good news, and good vibes, oh and a seed pump to get things going.

The link itself is broken, though I managed to find my way to https://blog.shrimpy.io/blog/how-much-it-takes-to-pump-bitcoin-by-1-percent

crabby

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Hi Everyone!

I had an interesting question I was thinking about the other day. Essentially, how much Bitcoin would you need to buy in order to increase the price by 1%.

I decided to investigate by taking a recent situation as an example. I summarized my findings in this article here:

How much would it take to pump Bitcoin 1%

I would love to hear your thoughts! Do you agree with the study? Is there any additional information you think should be considered?

Looking forward to the discussion!

Topic: How much BTC would you need to buy to increase the price by 1 percent? (Read 273 times)