Topic: How NEWBIES are treated (Read 1101 times)

Most of them are fully aware that merits require effort, higher rank members look at their meta posts as eye soar rightfully because most of them are .
Any one with some intelegence would read the meta sections and would understand how the system works and will get a ton of examples of merited Newbie posts, thus in general i dont think that your thread has value.

Also i want to add that most of higher rank members would love to see good posts from Newbies to merit . They are extremly hard to find.

Newbies aren't a race of people anybody is discriminating against. It's shitposters who people have a problem with regardless or rank, and you can be a shitposter with a Hero account, it's just a sad fact that the majority of spammers obviously happen to be Newbies or lower ranked members and this was just getting worse and worse as more and more people were coming to this forum just to earn by posting. When you know little to nothing about bitcoin and can't speak English very well then that is just a recipe for disaster and it's those users people are annoyed with because they've made the forum a spam-fest almost unfit for purpose, and that's not just because they're a Newbie. Nobody merely cares about that. If Newbies were coming here and making great posts then there would be no issue, but the matter of the fact is most them aren't. Now with the merit system any decent poster will quickly rise though the ranks, but if you're still a Newbie hundreds if not thousands of posts later then the issue lies with the quality of their content.

I can't agree with you. For your info, I'm also a newbie and somehow I got 2 merit. Doesn't it prove that newbies are treated in a proper way.
Newbies are treated in such way (as you mentioned) only if he/she is merit beggar, you can easily find out who is here for merit or real interest. What you have to do is only check newbie's post history before +1 merit a post.

I understand the sentiment of the OP with regards to newbies treated in the forum where I believe that everybody is entitled to their opinion. In the event that the situation is something that could offend in some way to the other, what is more important is that just continue to do the right thing and improve your posts and accept open minded on the comment from the other members. Just treat it as a constructive criticism even how harsh it is and try to improve further so that you could reach the goal you are aiming for.

Speaking of Newbies, we all realize that coming from there with various challenges?

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For example:
Where is there $ 10 dollars if there is no $ 1 dollar,
The bottom line:
To be the best Newbie, of course, many conditions must be met.
But in this Forum.
For those of you who are new, ask yourself if you understand how to do the best, what causes us to be newbies to be unprofessional, and the most important thing is of course understanding in the Forum and posting itself.

"so that means if you have knowledge about crypto, bitcoin, problems, procedures etc., you can say that you are the person who has the best part of the Bitcointalk Forum, (professional Newbie) according to the post insights you have."

"Well, I will not discuss too much about the meaning of the Newbie itself, for a professional or not profesional Newbie itself you can read it in the Meta Topic Forum or about Crypto, Bitcoin in print and news."

Then what is your posting all about?

Because that is the fact 99% of newbies are not here just to learn. Most of them are here to just earn easy bucks that is it.
There are alot already who were trying to help them but since they show no interest all the efforts are just useless. I will mention's jetcash effort for instance.


Because telling them the truth is much  better way so they could understand what is going on because no matter what you say  if they don't realize the importance of making such posts they will never do it.

It's absolutely depend on people on how they will and should react in criticism, some will take it as a challenge and some are being a butt hurt. Yes, it's somehow degrading and you'll pity yourself and that's fine, better yet pick up yourself and motivate and look up those people on how they create a meaningful and helpful posts. If you just live by pity you'll be miserable, nobody will help you anyway.

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To avoid getting your post buried in spam then don't post on nonsense topic, find a thread that spammers don't know how to create a reply and of course, don't post on megathreads.

I think not all beginners make posts that end with spam, some of them contribute to the progress of the forum by making quality posts but not getting rewards from what they do must be fixed. seniors do not have to say cruelly to reprimand those who are wrong but say what is right.

Newbies are conscious of activity count when posting, and not merit until now that merit is introduced for ranking up. The updated rule is a wake up call for them to look intently at what they are contributing to the forum. It is like back to school.

When I see a genuine newbie struggling I usually send them a PM and help them understand some of the etiquette of bitcointalk.

As tmfp surmised it very effectively about the moderation and trust systems:


Sometimes a kind PM to a newbie helps them understand the rules and etiquette without feeling picked on. There are far too many spambies to do that to individually so I only do that for those that show they are genuinely interested in participating in conversation.

Another butt hurted Member, its all in the responsiblility of the members to follow the rules. It is as simple as the, High rankers duty is to report anyone who break the rules and scam other members. Just move on with your life, you dont even know the issues.

The problem is the entire strategy of these spam advertising ICOs. There would be no problem if they only require 5 posts per week, but quality posts instead of 10 or 15 shitposts per week. There would be no difference for the visibility of the advertised project, but the forum would have around 50% less spam.
The explanation is quite easy: if there are more posts of every project, the visibility of these posts is decreasing, because they are very soon buried with other shitposts. If there would be less shitposts, the latest post would be visible for a longer time resulting in the same visibility. Instead of 2 shitposts immediately buried with other shitposts we need 1 quality post causing less spam for everyone.

But many projects are interested in having more posts per week related to other projects to increase the visibility of their posts. This is causing the spam problem and it would be easy to reduce spam by limiting the posts per week.

I dont know why they need such many posts a week. I think they should require 3-5 posts/week. That is enough.
Submitting 10 or more posts/week just like spamming...

Most newbies on this forum do not contribute anything of value, that is the sad truth of the matter. It is genuinely rare to spot a high quality newbie, simply because they are completely buried betwixt all the bounty spammers and shill posters that plague the forum. I think it's a case of painting them all with the same brush unfortunately, as it's gotten so bad that we can almost assume that every newbie we will see is shitposter of one variety or another.

Being a newbie is almost like a bad penny these days, it is easy to get scorned (rightly so sometimes), I hope we do not get too 'unwelcoming' and demoralize newbies with too much criticism. Many newbies are battling with basics, so once in a while, it helps to be patient with them and make some corrections on how posts can be better.It tedious on the part of higher ranks but it is for the greater good.

Wow you're lucky as a newbie then, because most senior members do that to newbies no matter when you join the forum in 2015 people were moaning at me for being some sort of sig spammer (even when I started a functioning service - still a sig spammer to them)...

It's not an individual's responsibility to take out the bad users, it's the community as a whole who are employed to do it (with payments of knowledge and merit for when they are in high supply)

No, it isn’t anyone’s responsibility, and each one is the sole responsible of what he decides to do on the forum. There are rules an general guidelines, and since this is a forum, people will form their opinion on any given post and respond to it. It’s part of the interaction process that may or may not lead on to developing a topic further, and that one could agree or beg to differ from.

Anaxagoras stated that in everything there is a share of everything. In ranks that applies too, and there are Legendries of all sorts and heroes of all sorts (just as with Newbies). But what is important is the proportions, and here I’d say that higher ranks tend to bring on average more to the table than lower ranks, precisely because they have been here longer and know the perks better than others. You will obviously find exceptions, that’s why I’m looking at the average side of things.

They have greater knowledge because they interacted and communicated. Sadly the bulk of new members aren't interested in interaction and the acquisitionof knowledge. All they want to do is to stick boring repetitive fly posters all over the boards.

I do not think it as anyone's job to take the responsibility to tell newbies what is a right and what is a wrong post. No one told me when I was a newbie, no one is telling me now. How could most of high ranking members know anyway? They got their ranks without the necessity of merits. They are not wise, they are just here longer.

and all those Mostly bots create new topics why they are newbies again? I'm pretty sure OP was not about that..

Why do you want everything should come from administrator(theymos). Why we are not taking responsibility for our quality of post and signature bounties we are joining?
Will you like to restrain  knowledgeable guy/Moderators to 50 post limit in a week and wait for another week to respond some queries.
Just follow the Choosing your Signature wisely guideline.

As Jet Cash I've been awarded over 700 merits since the system was implemented. I read a load of comments about getting merits because posters were senior members, so I thought I would try an experiment. I registered Talk Merit, and timed it to optimise the activity system. and I managed to pick up 28 activities in under 2 days. I was then limited by the 14 activity periods, and managed to pick up 10 merits during the time it took to get the required activity for member level. That must be about the fastest time possible to go from "brand new" to member. I didn't announce it was an alt of Jet Cash until I had gained the 10 merits. JetAid was announced as an alt at the time of registration. I didn't try to optimise the activity in this case, but it has still managed to pick up enough merit to become a member when it has gained enough activity.

Of course I have a couple of big advantages. I am English and English is my natural language. I have also been an active member of the forum for 3 years or so, and I have a major interest in Bitcoin, and world economic systems. But I think that my major advantage is that I see Bitcoin Talk as crypto community, and a mutual help and discussion forum. I do not think of it as a cash cow to be milked even when the teats are dry or sore.

When a new member joins Bitcoin Talk he has a choice. He can take the left hand path along the rocky road of bounties. or he can travel the right hand road to green pastures and prosperity with Bitcoin. Some members are able to travel along both paths, but they have usually started on the Bitcoin road, and earned some strong boots to protect them as they walk on the sharp flints of the bounties.

WTF really ?

Bitcointalk just like Bitcoin, It's nice how anyone with difference rank can be join bounty and member Bitcointalk.org starting from newbie up to Hero are assets that will never be found anywhere

Just ignore that feeling OP I know it because I was one of them that got demoted but see I just never thought that I could even rank up to member this time. The lesson learn is to observe the rules and regulations in the thread that theymos has provided in those sticky threads and what did other members do? Ignoring all the important details that one should not be missed out to read.

The problem is not really the forum but those members spamming in some parts of this forum. This is the right thing to do for one to learn and not just by focusing to earn. Learning to do good in this forum is better than earning but doing shitty posts. I have learn so much on this forum and definitely would continue to do good rather than spamming.

Here is the thing that one should consider to earn more:

Self Recflections:

Learn more, be good, receive merits, rank up then earn more!

Treating newbies are usually base on how they are well informed before entering the forum. If you don't know how to search from the beginning, expect many negative treatment about you.

Next are the history of your post. If your not improving through time hanging around in the forum, just leave. You are not needed here. Good bye.  

I do understand your concern towards the newbies. In fact, i agree with you that some new-comers are out there in the forum who do share good posts/help the community and sometimes gets neglected. I would rather say they are not neglected, it's actually the forum is a large community. In some sections you will find that there have been posts more than expected and as new posts comes in the old starts disappearing. On the other hand, if a newbies follows rules and regulations and helps the community i believe there is always a candy(merit) for them.

Many among us here are kind peoples and are likely minded. If someone reads or goes through a post that is really interesting, i believe in order to show gratitude they always leaves behind a merit so that the writer can come up with more topics that can improve the community.

For your information it's not the higher rank's responsibility in helping newbies to improve, that's why higher rank won't help further. Newbies and the demoted jr. members should be responsible for improving themselves. Higher Ranks just pointing out where to start and it's on you to continue learning. Having trouble? If yes, this forum will be good for your problem discussion about the topic you have problems with.

It will not work if 8 out of 10 shit post. If someone post more then 50 in a week and 80% of this post is better, I think that will good for this forum. Now a days bounty hunter's are trying to reach their target according to the rules of specific campaign where they participate, most of them forgets  the forum rules indeed.

It's not about discrimination, this is for the good of the forum. I feel them but what happened now is to make this forum more  informative rather than none sense posts. But if I'll be the one to make the rules I rather prohibited dual account, buying account, multi account in one IP. And also to limit the post of each user in 24 hours depending to their rank. How about newbies should not exceed 3 posts per day, 5 for jr. member, 7 for members, 10 full members and 15 above for hero and legendary.

This is gold! hahaha

I always read comments like.

BAN CAMPAIGNS WITH MIN POST REQUIRED
ONLY HIRE HIGHER RANK MEMBERS
BAN BOTS...

AND SO.. I don't think we will get into something useful, just complaining every time Theymos change the rules.

I get that you are trying to make a point but i think you should try to do some little research before taking a side. I had the same thoughts after the changes and restrictions but i later realized that, this was done to make this forum better. People need to get it that this forum is a source to increase your knowledge on cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. It is not just any ordinary forum. The forum is like a library containing everything about cryptocurrencies. Entertaining pollutions in this forum will not help preserve the forum.

Yes,  I agree with OP as there are more high ranking members bullying newbies instead of helping them to improve further.  Assisting the newbies is a great way to let them enhance their knowledge and grow maturely.

What a big word . This Merit system and other strict rules of ranking up will not be implemented at all if the forum remains cleaner before. It will not be implemented if the Newbie Invasion never happened (not pertaining to all, only the bad ones). So don't act like mods and higher member ranks are the villains of the story because they're not. They are just tired of tolerating shitposters/spammers everyday that's why they made a very strict rule. If you find this offensive and rude then you still don't have any choice but to follow unless you now want get out of this forum.
Yeah! I get your point and I know what you feel because I experience the same thing sometimes. Some members here are unpleasant but you can't blame them because it's their personality, we don't have the right to please for becoming more nice if they don't really want to. Another factor is you did something wrong that's why their responses at you are in a mad manner, so always check your posts first before complaining.
Believe it or not, that's what I always do especially to my newbie co-members in our local board. I only report those users who extremely did something inappropriate and violated the rules, not the ones who only committed minimal mistakes. However, you should also understamd that others just prefer nuking by hitting the "Report to Moderator" button because it's easier. Nonetheless, just be an obedient and good quality poster of this forum and you will not face any problem.

Stop abusing punctuation would be a good start.

I hope it will help reduce spam a little bit, but unfortunately for account farmers, 1 merit is not a big deal they always can buy it.

Now pretend for a moment that you are not you. Turn to your posting history and start looking through it, specially from the second most recent page of posts onwards. What do you see? Endless wall of social reporting for pages on end. Now being really objective, can you honestly say that what you are envisioning is constructive and may be deemed useful to anyone but you? 

It's quite obvious, members of higher ranks look on newbies posts in a different way !! I been actively participating on the forum and never got a merit or comment related to my post !! That is true even if they can't give a credit for post those made by newbies, They could make a comment on how to improve the content of the post as they have higher experience !! That would be help other members to come out of this demoted-hell !! Most of the time I asked my self why no one care to reward me !!

It might be an interesting experiment if an "anonymous mode" were available or enacted (even temporarily) as an experiment to see how interactions change. This anonymous mode would hide username, trust, merit, activity, post-count and any link to the profile. I wonder if newbies would get treated more fairly or would be dismissed even sooner. In all honesty, members that have been here longer are generally held to a higher-standard to some degree. Whether they are expected to have an elementary understanding of Bitcoin or a more nuanced conceptualization of the rules it is still easier to be a newbie. As long as you are not doing anything malevolent, such as spamming, plagiarizing, scamming or breaking rules then Newbies are treated pretty well, IMO. The only thing they get a bad-rap for is occasionally trying to get involved in auctions or attempting to sell something, but the second they verify they have the funds/goods then they are treated equal. In other words, what I normally see is respect where it is earned, but cordiality at all times unless there has been a misdeed. I think the anonymous mode would work against the newbies, because most do allow you that learning curve.

That being said, too many people are drawn here for the wrong reasons and a lot of they time these users expect the entire forum to change to fit their personality and desires. You can only be so nice.

Sir I think you are one of the most talented forum member here. considering that you have a newbie account with 8 merit is really something and it is an accomplishment. I have been participating since April for a signature campaign. And the campaign took about 6 months to finish if it will not be extended. It is my first signature campaign and I was so sad because my account was dropped to a newbie with the new system. I a bit sad and unhappy because I might not receive a thing from it even with all the hardwork I put in it.  Yet I understand why the new system is important for the entire forum.  And so Instead of going against or murmuring around, I consider everything as a positive change. Now I wanted to learn more techniques from you and on what really is to be done to get merits. I would really appreciate it if you can help me out. This is my first bounty and it is one the longest bounty as well that I have seen. These september 30 will be the end of the campaign and I hope I can still finished it as a junior member. Thank you in advance sir.

You are correct buddy,the new merit requirement for jr.members has a lot of benefits.Thousands of jr.members are spamming all around the forum and it is because it is the most rank they can get and the minimum requirement to participant in bounties especifically in signatures which is why it is a good move for theymos.Such a relief to moderators and admins here who are fighting spams and shitposters this is another good step for the forum.

Most mods _do_ delete posts without relying on reports, but we still do rely on reports. However the quantity of posts that get made per minute is so high that it would be a more-than-full time job (i.e. probably 12-16 hours per day) to read every post and make a decision whether to delete them. The moderators do not have time for that. More moderators would be helpful, but we cannot rely on just the moderators. The community needs to help police itself, and people need to understand the rules.

i think as new guys, they just have to observe the threats for a while and join here and there where there talks/point of views are appreciated
 
but like in the wall observer are enough newbies with good posts getting merited all the time ...
offcourse the newbie's continuously starting threats to get price predictions or with always the same price talk/question making threats is getting little bit annoying
will the price dump will the price go up when 20k when 50k when ....
when i have Smerits i always send if i like the post or if it has good humor around the topic and merit new guys as well but my Smerits flying away like ice melts in the dessert......
its just not easy gaining Smerits to send.....

**Enters Thread**

*Sees the same repetitive crap again**

**Leaves Thread**

This is better than the one implemented, maybe some mods are so lazy relying on the reports of the users, what if mods seek for bad posts and ask for a help from active high members to do delete bad posts

If mods delete the bad posts, then the spammers won't make their quotas, and they wont get paid. It a simple solutiion, and could lead to the emigration of the parasites.

You made a valid point, I think it will be a good idea if the forum can set a maximum number of post an account can make in a week or two weeks, just like they did with activities, I believe implementing such a feature will make managers of bounty to limit the number of post they ask the bounty hunters to make per week. recently i came across a bounty to ask members to make 50 post per week and when you look at the spreadsheet, you will see a lot people participating, so imagine the kind of spam that would cause on the forum.

I am the third alt of Jet Cash, and all of us managed to get a few merits within the first 20 posts. I am the only alt that admitted my parentage at the time of birth.

In the Bitcoin Talk forum, it isn't who you know, or what your rank is that earns the merits, it's what you say, and how you behave. That is how it is, and how it should be. However, if you know and associate with cheats, then you can obtain merits that are contrary to the forum policy. The problem with those merits is that they are often noticed, and if so, then they will affect your reputation, and possibly your earning potential.

I saw on sale hundreds of accounts from 1 seller of the rank of a member and full member.
Then it is necessary to deprive the signature of all the ranks below the Sr.member.
Some bounties of the company require 10 posts a week, some 20, and some 50.
Can be imposed a ban and set a maximum number of posts for all the bounty companies. For example, not more than 10 per week.

You say that it's bad when a person gets it and gives nothing in return. I agree with you. But on enthusiasm, too, will not last long.
Therefore, there must be a balance.

First of all, this is not a matter of action professional. Higher ranks do not work here, neither do newbies.

Those newbies you are defending are Mostly bots. They just write "good project" or useless posts all the time, just to make one more post for a campaign. They have zero contribution yo the forum and no respect for rules.

And some of those users have dozens or even hundreds of accounts.

Some people just shouldn't be on here.  If they post continuous spam and haven't bothered to read the rules then they don't deserve anybodies time.

If someone came to your house with dirty shoes (ignoring the please take off your shoes sign)  turned on the TV loudly, wrote on your furniture, slowed down your internet by downloading constantly, invited their friends over and ate from your fridge empty and was there purely for the "free food and drink". Would you tell them what they were doing wrong or tell them to go away in a less than polite way ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=search

Any question they have they can search on the forum. Instead a lot of people are too lazy and start a new thread. Some people have started more topics in one month than I have in two years.

I am not posting this to gain merit or to pamper those newbies but ever since this Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements or this updated Merit & new rank requirements came out, these people started to cry, shout out for justice or starting creating post to take consideration with the changes.

Now, here is what I observed. Those newbies with or without hundred activities are treated as shit posters now or an eye soar when they are creating a suggestion thread related to or like how to gain merits. Those comments I am seeing from higher ranks sounds discriminating. I respect how you react with those post but try to think before you react negatively. Try advising them what's wrong with their post and help them to improve. Don't look down on those post created by newbies and stop thinking that they are only creating this thread to gain merit to rank up.

Yes, your rank is higher and you might be too knowledgeable but why don't you act base on your rank? I mean, act in a professional way and give them a proper advise instead of discriminating their post.