How secured are Trezor Safe 3 ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: Hispo on May 30, 2024, 06:08:33 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on April 29, 2024, 01:59:11 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery

So you want to have battery that dies and creates chaos like in ledger nono X? ::)
There is not a single good reason why battery should be added in Trezor Safe 3, but it's easy to connect it with simple power bank if you are paranoid.
-snip-

So, is the Trezor 3 able to be used by connecting it to a power bank? Or is it obligatory to use a smarthphone and a connect to the web page of Trezor?
I have always felt interested on using a hardware wallet by Trezor in a completely airgapped environment, but I have not had the opportunity to do so.

You can connect Trezor to a power bank. Still, you will not be able to use it to make transactions because Trezor does not provide features such as Bluetooth or other similar connections that can connect to other devices, such as smartphones.

I have a Trezor T, and it has a slot to place a Micro SD, but so far, its only function is to encrypt the PIN (https://trezor.io/learn/a/encrypt-pin-with-microsd-card)*, unlike the Cold Card, which has many functions related to using the Micro SD in the hardware wallet (https://coldcard.com/docs/microsd/).

* Even though the device is connected to a power bank, the PSBT feature on the Trezor T SD Card doesn't yet exist, even on the Trezor Safe 3; as far as I know, there is no slot for micro SD.

Quote from: https://github.com/trezor/trezor-firmware/issues/49#issuecomment-818983180

PSBTs via SD card are not on the immediate roadmap. You can sign PSBTs via HWI with no issues.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on May 30, 2024, 12:32:46 PM

when you connect your wallet to a device connected to the Internet, your Trezor private key does not touch the Internet, and there is Secure Elements. Therefore, in theory, your private key is safe even if there is a virus on the device to which you connect Trezor with

In theory, yes. And if the code doesn't allow it. But as we recently saw with Ledger, a Secure Element can be configured to not provide access to private keys, but it can also help in sharing the keys online with third parties. It all depends on the code configuration and the decisions of the developers. I don't think anyone in Trezor will be as stupid as the people making decisions in Ledger, though.

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Quote from: Hispo on May 30, 2024, 06:08:33 AM

I have always felt interested on using a hardware wallet by Trezor in a completely airgapped environment, but I have not had the opportunity to do so.

when you connect your wallet to a device connected to the Internet, your Trezor private key does not touch the Internet, and there is Secure Elements. Therefore, in theory, your private key is safe even if there is a virus on the device to which you connect Trezor with, but if you want the air-gapped option, you can connect it with air-gapped electrum wallet.

There are good open source options for true air-gapped wallets.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Hispo on May 30, 2024, 06:08:33 AM

Trezor isn't an airgapped signing device. It's a hardware wallet, but not an airgapped one. If you want to sign bitcoin transactions in a more advanced way, you will have to use something like the Seedsigner, Jade, Foundation Passport, Coldcard, etc. Those are properly airgapped hardware wallets where you can export/import PSBTs using MicroSD cards or QR codes and use those in connection with companion software wallets for broadcasting, for example. The Trezor doesn't do that.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on April 29, 2024, 01:59:11 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery

So you want to have battery that dies and creates chaos like in ledger nono X? Roll Eyes

There is not a single good reason why battery should be added in Trezor Safe 3, but it's easy to connect it with simple power bank if you are paranoid.

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Are we sure the apps won't pass the seed to Trezor when it is connected to the Internet?

Yes we are, but if you want to verify for yourself than first learn coding skill and read data from ledger source code.

Quote from: SFR10 on April 27, 2024, 09:35:48 AM

Out of curiosity, which part of the onboarding process was harder in comparison to Ledger?

It's much easier to use than ledger crap.
No stupid apps, and no stupid memory limitations.

So, is the Trezor 3 able to be used by connecting it to a power bank? Or is it obligatory to use a smarthphone and a connect to the web page of Trezor?
I have always felt interested on using a hardware wallet by Trezor in a completely airgapped environment, but I have not had the opportunity to do so.

I take for granted it is something possible to do with the most advanced versions of wallet developed by Satoshilabs like model T and model 3. However, Unfortunately I only have gotten my hands on an old model One, there would be an advantage for me to get a powerbank to connect to the power bank? Because I personally like the idea on using an airgapped version of a wallet by Trezor, instead going for other brands which are more obscure and unrecognized.

I have got the impression, the Model One being too basic to be able to carry out basic operations.
Is there any documentation on it or not?

The Cryptovator

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Quote from: dkbit98 on April 29, 2024, 01:59:11 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery

So you want to have battery that dies and creates chaos like in ledger nono X? Roll Eyes

There is not a single good reason why battery should be added in Trezor Safe 3, but it's easy to connect it with simple power bank if you are paranoid.

I was wondering about battery when I can't generate my seed when disconnecting from the PC. So I disconnect the internet connection and generate the seed. After setting everything, I reconnect the internet again. That was the only purpose of asking about batteries.

However, I have already started moving my funds from the ledger to my Trezor. But they support too few native coins. That's the only issue I have with the trezor.

dkbit98

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery

So you want to have battery that dies and creates chaos like in ledger nono X? Roll Eyes

There is not a single good reason why battery should be added in Trezor Safe 3, but it's easy to connect it with simple power bank if you are paranoid.

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Are we sure the apps won't pass the seed to Trezor when it is connected to the Internet?

Yes we are, but if you want to verify for yourself than first learn coding skill and read data from ledger source code.

Quote from: SFR10 on April 27, 2024, 09:35:48 AM

Out of curiosity, which part of the onboarding process was harder in comparison to Ledger?

It's much easier to use than ledger crap.
No stupid apps, and no stupid memory limitations.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 26, 2024, 04:06:14 PM

I am not a developer and can't read the codes. So it depends on other developers reviews. So far, my research seems pretty safe using Trezor rather than Ladger. So for small amounts of funds, I will keep using Ledger since it is easy to use. I feel a bit complicated with Trezor and the large amount of funds I will keep in Trezor. But trezor seems to don't support all major currencies, like BNB. You have to use a third-party wallet for other coins. However it doesn't matter actually but a bit harassment. They should update their software, which should support all the major chains.

It also applies to cryptocurrency wallets. If you are skeptical, use an old computer such as an airgapped wallet, where you remove the network parts and use a clean, open source OS. Trezor is better than Ladger, but Passport - Foundation Devices is the best.

Using Trezor with third party wallets like NEW wallet is bad for privacy but the transaction is still signed offline.

SFR10

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 26, 2024, 04:06:14 PM

So for small amounts of funds, I will keep using Ledger since it is easy to use. I feel a bit complicated with Trezor and the large amount of funds I will keep in Trezor.

Out of curiosity, which part of the onboarding process was harder in comparison to Ledger?

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 26, 2024, 04:06:14 PM

But trezor seems to don't support all major currencies, like BNB. You have to use a third-party wallet for other coins.

Yes and no... There's native support for BNB on the Ethereum network ^{[ERC20 token]} on Trezor Suite, but you need to use a third-party app for other networks.

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 26, 2024, 04:06:14 PM

They should update their software, which should support all the major chains.

You have a point, but it's worth mentioning that also means having a larger attack surface for those who'd be using the Universal firmware on their Trezor devices.

The Cryptovator

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I am not a developer and can't read the codes. So it depends on other developers reviews. So far, my research seems pretty safe using Trezor rather than Ladger. So for small amounts of funds, I will keep using Ledger since it is easy to use. I feel a bit complicated with Trezor and the large amount of funds I will keep in Trezor. But trezor seems to don't support all major currencies, like BNB. You have to use a third-party wallet for other coins. However it doesn't matter actually but a bit harassment. They should update their software, which should support all the major chains.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

As I can remember Ledger create seed itself even not connected to the apps.

Ledger does generate the seed without connecting to the Ledger Live, but then you still have to connect to Ledger Live to install the necessary apps, at which point anything can happen.
Unfortunately, it is not possible to first install the necessary applications, and then generate or import the seed and use Ledger with third-party clients (without using Ledger Live).

Yamane_Keto

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You can verify in two ways hardware test or firmware test:

first, open the device and examine the dedicated HSM chip. It must be isolated from the Internet connection, and therefore, even if the hacker gains access to the device, will not be able to access the private key or to test the firmware code and then Update the Trezor device firmware for the code that you reviewed. This way you can guarantee that there is no programming line to send the private key to an external server. If you are unable to review the firmware yourself, you must trust others who reviewed it.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery, means it has to be connected to the apps or website in order to create seeds. Though I shut off my Internet connection, it doesn't feel good to me.

The seed is generated inside the device anyway, so it doesn't matter if the device will be online at the time of generation, or if you will connect it to the internet at some point later. What I want to say is that in case the manufacturer has malicious intentions, the seed can be extracted from the device at any time.

Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

As I can remember Ledger create seed itself even not connected to the apps. So I have a concern about Trezor security. Are we sure the apps won't pass the seed to Trezor when it is connected to the Internet? Or apps couldn't read data from the Trezor? First time with Trezor, so I need to understand how it does work actually. If Ledger were open-source, then I would like to use Ledger. I like Trezor just for being open-source.

The Nano X has a battery, but the S model didn't, and I'm not sure if the S+ (or whatever it's called) has one. Considering what we know about Ledger and that practically they have the option that your seed can be shared with third parties and even be handed over to the authorities if they request it, I don't think you should go in that direction. If you want more security, maybe you should consider an airgapped wallet such as Passport, where you communicate with the interface exclusively via QR codes or an SD card.

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Well we're not a developer but if you check their Github page it seems most of the developers agree that their source code is safe so that's the only thing we sure that Trezor is safe.
If there's someone who keeps posting on their GitHub page that it has spyware or any fraud codes inside then Im sure this news will spread immediately here on the forum and into crypto community but no reports that Trezor can retrieve your wallet seed backup.

Why not only run this hardware wallet on offline devices or cold storage since it's allowed to make a raw transaction from an online device to an offline device and only connect your Trezor to offline device for signing a transaction.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on April 25, 2024, 04:04:31 PM

So I have a concern about Trezor security. Are we sure the apps won't pass the seed to Trezor when it is connected to the Internet? Or apps couldn't read data from the Trezor?

I can not guarantee you that. The hardware wallets that you can think of not doing that but remain permanently offline with its seed phrase are airgapped hardware wallet like Passport. If you use QR code for making transaction with an airgapped hardware wallet, you will know yourself that no Internet connection with the hardware wallet and that the hardware wallet is not interacting with anything other than signing transaction.

The Cryptovator

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Eventually, I got my Trezor hardware wallet. Upon setting it up, I discovered it doesn't have a battery, means it has to be connected to the apps or website in order to create seeds. Though I shut off my Internet connection, it doesn't feel good to me. As I can remember Ledger create seed itself even not connected to the apps. So I have a concern about Trezor security. Are we sure the apps won't pass the seed to Trezor when it is connected to the Internet? Or apps couldn't read data from the Trezor? First time with Trezor, so I need to understand how it does work actually. If Ledger were open-source, then I would like to use Ledger. I like Trezor just for being open-source.

Topic: How secured are Trezor Safe 3 ? (Read 223 times)