Topic: How the Government made you fat (Read 746 times)

Government has not made me fat in anyway.We have been working hard to make ends meet.No employment anywhere,this is just what we have to do to help ourselves. I know government have made people fat in some countries,but my country, they hardly look at your face .

You don't know for sure if you have insulin resistance or not if you haven't been tested. Another thing is that there are very indicative symptoms.


You see, you just don't understand what I'm saying. Insulin resistance is not equal to diabetes. Many people are insulin resistant and not diabetic. And just because you have normal sugar levels does not indicate how much insulin your body is secreting to keep it at normal levels.


I must be an alien, then, since I have managed not to feel sleepy after eating on purpose. With so many people having insulin resistance these days, no wonder you say that. Nowadays a predominantly carbohydrate based diet is the norm, just as it is quite normal to have insulin resistance (even if your blood sugar tests come back fine). So, the normal thing is to feel sleepy after eating. Logical.

The links you put are very good, and here I should qualify. I generally don't feel sleepy, even if I eat carbs. However, if after a long fast and physical exercise I eat a large meal based mostly on carbohydrates (we can add alcohol) and for dessert a large amount of sugars, I do feel sleepy. Like after a Christmas meal.

My comment is based on experience and the questions I have asked from friends and people around me, none has opposed this before, I do not want to go into insulin resistance, it is completely normal for a healthy human to feel sleepy after meal if he is not doing anything like work. I checked the search engines now, you can check what I saw

https://time.com/5515553/sleepy-after-eating/
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323379
https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2016/10/04/why-do-we-feel-sleepy-after-eating-a-meal.html
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323379#:~:text=An%20amino%20acid%20called%20tryptophan,make%20a%20person%20feel%20sleepy.

I do not have insulin resistance, my body process glucose accurately, I am not diabetic, but you can say increase in blood sugar and protein after meal can caused it, this is completely normal.

Nope. Very rarely.


It seems to me that we are going to be in pretty good agreement on these points. For a sedentary person, the worst thing you can do is a diet high in simple sugars/carbohydrates. With more physical activity you can get more carbs into the diet.

I think it is more important not to eat too frequently, no more than 3 times a day than to eat carbs or not, also depending on physical activity. I don't know if on the issue of meal frequency you would agree.

Nowadays many people eat more than 6 times a day: breakfast, lunch, dinner, 3 snacks in between but between meals and snacks they also drink coffee with sugar or some sugary drink or with milk, so they do not stop provoking insulin peaks.


Precisely, although you say it is not, that is the most typical symptom of insulin resistance. It doesn't happen to me anymore. It used to happen to me.

Yes, that is just it, is it the government we must face or we ourselves, our body process food differently, the meal we eat might not be the same. Some people wish to get fat but are not far, some want to slim and require another diet, government even do not care about anything than ourselves to care for ourselves, nothing like the government should we involve in this but ourselves.

If I eat, I do feel sleepy, but it will go after like 30 minutes after I feel sleepy, I notice this most when I am at work. But during real working day, I will not feel sleepy because I am walking and working around, but being on chair will trigger sleep after eating, it is not about insulin resistant or something but we have different nature, most people I know do say this that they do fell sleepy too.

guess you dont eat much turkey.

point was. sugar is an instant hit. an instant rush of energy.. fat is a slow drawn out release.
when it comes to sugars the different sugars release at different times, longevity.
as do fats.
glucose is the one thats super instant hit. dextrose ise more laggy.
as for fats
simplex fats convert to glucose easiest where as complex fats take even longer.
if your not burning the glucose while its in glucose format. your body can skip the stage of converting to simplex fat and turn glucose straight to complex fats.

so its about working out what activity you have planned. if its early active activity needed sooner than 90 minutes. go the sugar direction. if its moderate prolonged activity. go for a small diet of mix(sugar nearer to the time you need most energy)
if it completely sedentary then small diet of fat.(not excess or that will be turned to complex fats)

just stay away from sugar water if sedentary. or it will just be wasted as sugar and just go straight to complex fats(lard). usually lingering around your organs instead of getting to the skin deep level.

yep high sugar consumers with sedentary lifestyles sometimes look thin on the outside. but have alot of internal organ (visceral) fat

Oviously, that was a joke.


Getting sleepy after eating only happens if you are insulin resistant. Since I reversed my insulin resistance I usually eat more than 1K Kcal per meal and I don't get sleepy or anything.

Another thing is that at Christmas dinner you may have eaten 2000 Kcal plus a lot of alcohol, but that has nothing to do with what you explain that fat has to break down into sugar, because precisely on those occasions you usually eat a lot of sugar.

The government officials are just there for their selfish interest. They don't care how you are doing. You have to work hard for the food you eat, the water you bath. Oxygen is basically the only thing we don't pay for. The government have no in anyway made me fat.

Even the government do not give me the food I eat, government do not tell me what to do, I follow what nutritionists say, I read health books very well. Is it the government that will tell me how I should live my life, that I should take my bath, brush my teeth, and tell me specific food to eat, that is not possible, I will do all these by myself, I have the way I eat, I am not a sick person, I am not obesed, I am just of normal weight and I eat healthy. Only what I know my government are helpful about is that they do not provide employment, high inflation rate, poor economy and growing amount of poor people.

im actually more socialism/liberal
im not into government control of citizens. but happy that they should regulate industry to protect citizens
if businesses want citizens money. they should earn it the right way

anyways
what you are forgetting in regards to the hormone (hunger/reward) cycle is

your body needs glucose(simple sugar) for energy.
if you eat simple fat. your body has to if active break that down into sugar. to then feel the reward.
if inactive, keep it ready for later convertion

i call this the christmas turkey delay. you know the lathargic feeling after you eat because your body is (even when sat down) working hard to convert it.
going for a walk after christmas dinner converts it to sugar and you feel good in a slow progressive manner of feeling the energy.. but not 'buzzed' in an instant.

where as having candy/energy drink/sugar in coffee. your body has a sudden acces to sugar so is an instant high of feel good

however
lazing around after a christmas dinner. it converts it/keeps it as free flowing fat.
lazing after candy and water.. converts it to harder fats.

the more complex fat. the harder to convert down to sugar so you then get the 'hunger' feeling more
this is why candy eaters get hungry feeling alot even if they had more calories than body needs.
its converted to lard and then begs for sugar because converting it back takes too long

I grant you that today there is more junk food, but in the 70's there was already Coca-Cola and McDonald's people ate jam, and cakes. So they didn't spend all day eating vegetables (I'm talking about industrialized countries).



That argument is very nice but you forget that someone working in an office is not hungry for 3500 calories. If I eat 8 times a day based on sugars, maybe he will end up eating them, but it is not usual. Again, this is about hormones, not calories.



I didn't think of you as a commie. But lately I like commies. There are quite a few on this board and they are nice people.

industry changed first. where by people needed to change eating habits due to more sedentary life.
(working less hard in an office and more days off for weekends to sit and watch tv)

this caused more weight gain. the balanced diet came in response to it.
issue is industry had a louder voice. and people dont stick to diets. nor research science. instead they just follow the tv adverts

its not a simple thing of ignore governments balanced diet plate. its about understanding it.

to maintain weight
if you are an active person that jogs in the morning. for about 30 minutes. a sugar breakfast diet pre-run is best(instant burn). and not best post-run
but if you are a slow starter. a sugar breakfast is worse. as it just converts to lard fat because your not instant burning it.

if inactive post-run/jog
having sugar breakfast(milk+sugar in cereal.. coffee.. orange juice and milk) just turns to lard as your no longer active after run so body does not need the sugar.
.. having a free flow fat diet. meat and veg and fibre is better then a milk+sugar/oj breakfast
as the free flow fat stays free flowing for hours to have a consistant long term access to energy

in short sugar is for active need within 90mins of consumption.
free flowing clean fat is for the consistant energy over 3-6 hours(one meal no snacking)

also moderation is good

yes its more then calorie in calorie out..
its the TYPE of calorie(carbohydrate)

sugars are simplex easy burn calorie. body uses these first.

having a high sugar high water but lack active exercise in 90mins = skips the liquid fat and goes straight to lard(thick solid wide fat)
because you then lack the free flowing fat once the sugar is converted/burned. your body goes into hunger signals because it has to work extra hard to turn the lard back into free flowing fat to then convert into glucose to then burn for energy

sugar(glucose) is what your body burns for energy. its soo active that not having free flowing glucose really sends out the signals for more. and rewards you fastest when you get it.

ingesting fat wont reward you because your body then needs to convert it down to glucose. so your reward feeling has a delay effect and a more smoother effect


things like coffee and energy drinks are the wrong balance of calorie-water intake
if your not doing enough movement/energy burn in the same 90 minutes as consuming it..
expect to get podgy love handles if you continue this scenario regular

different sugars are needed/used by the body first

its not a question of will power. its a question of lack of education and lack of activity
yes government dont fund enough food education at school.
yes government dont fund enough food options at school lunch rooms
yes government dont fund enough sport/PE curriculum at schools. causing kids to sit and eat fries/pizza

but thats more government incompetence/ignorance/lack of involvement(emphasis lack of involvement)
compared to the levels of involvement and investment the food industry put into peoples minds

Well, I am about to lock the thread.

Mostly because those of you who are against what the title says, and the video on which it is based, repeat the same garbage without providing arguments.

We already know that today the fat person is blamed for being fat, because if they simply ate less and moved more they would be thin.

That argument has already been refuted and you give no arguments to counter refute it.

The argument in the video, and by Dr Fung and many others, is that the weight issue is primarily a hormone issue, not a calorie issue. Calories are important to some extent, but not the main thing.

And you keep repeating the same thing.

In the 60's and 70's, people were mostly thin. In the 70's the US Government first set dietary guidelines and from there began an obesity epidemic that has continued to worsen.

If it is a question of willpower, what happens, that people in the 60's and 70's had a lot of willpower and humans mostly stopped having it from the 80's?

yes government incompetence to not regulate food industry.

but its the food industry that make the stuff and advertise the stuff that end up in your mouth.

its government lack of involvement. by not being involved in whats on your plate. that seems to be the topics reason to blame government. and why are they not involved..
.. oh look capitalism.. yet again

capitalism is the economic philosophy of favouring industry control over government/citizen control
communism is the economic philosophy of favouring government control over industry/citizen control
socialism is the economic philosophy of favouring citizen control over government/industry control

capitalist industry lobbies the government.

the government follows capitalist/corporate interest, which is make more money
 - making you sugar addict (big food corp)
 - making you sick (big pharma meds)

the government is incompetent just like the people, incompetent people create incompetent government, incompetent government makes you fat if you happen to follow their corporate/capitalist inclined policies.

the food and body relationship is more than just calorie in--calorie out...the question is why are you always hungry?, why are you addicted to carbs and sugar?

i dont blame government. they did not make the food nor put the plate infront of me, nor make me eat it.

capitalism caused more glossy adverts tempting people to eat less than nutritious food(KFC adverts)
capitalism caused excess of less than nutritious food to be available. (10 fastfood restaurants per fresh veg grocery store)
capitalism caused more work places to offer sedentary jobs

if people were to eat a balanced diet they wouldnt get fat. but its when people self- decide, get tempted by little extra's. even a 10% excess of a balanced diet. these 10%'s add up over time. and in a couple years you look in the mirror and realise it.

its just common sense

if people in the 1950's were working on farms from 6am to 3pm 7 days a week (9 hours x 7 days =63hours)
(3200cal maintain weight)
if people in 2021 are working in an office 9-5, 5 days a week(8 hours x 5 days=40 hours)
(2100cal maintain weight)

if someone in an office job is eating the same diet as an active worker. the office worker would gain 50% excess calories per day, every day, and with less exercise happening to a point of atleast 50%.
thats 100% too much
(basal (minimum function ~1600) vs 3200 cal)

other things occur too.
fluid intake.
drinking 2 litres of water and having about 4 full bladder urinations a day is a equal balance of water in water out.
but drink more. but urinate less(cant take pee breaks at work) means you retain that fluid which is then forced to convert sugars and simplex fats with water to become complex fat.(hydrogenated fats)
..
ever notice when using cooking oil. if you put too much water into the mix, when it cools it becomes harder more solid white fat instead of staying yellow fluid.. well that white hard fat is hydrogenated fat. which sits on your body more then fresh liquid fat.

when you metabolise carbohydrate(burn it for energy)
your body wont process this white fat until it has run out of the free flowing sugars and fats that are easier to process first. which is why to lose those 'love handles' people need to do extreme dieting/exercise to force body to use up all the free flowing carbohydrates first to then burn the white solid fat

..
over all i would not say government are causing obesity.
capitalist industry is. but it seems the government are not doing enough to educate people and not doing enough to regulate industry to prevent capitalism from making people fat

i have tasted some of those fruits and i already think i am already high on sugar felt like poison LOL.

high fructose corn syrup in drinks--GMO.

you can also add the carbs-glucose to that equation

one can is half, that's huge..i've seen those cola cans, cups and bottles got bigger and bigger as time passes. didn't even come to my mind because i haven't drank cola for a very looooooooong time around two decades already hehe

The way Americans eat, it isn't just GMO fruit that takes up all their sugar allowance for the day. One can of cola will take up something like half your daily sugar allowance, Highly unlikely people are exceeding the limit by eating fruit all day.

Government make people who benefit for them fat as we are not everybody that benefit from government setup, we have civil service commission and urban planning agents these workers can testify that government is making them to fat but people like me are not benefiting nothing from political leaders, I don't no why people still value government and still believe that something like government exist, everyone is government of it's own

Genetically modified fruits are so much sweeter bringing higher dose of sugar per serving, the more sugar the more you will become a sugar addict.

GMO is for profit by big corp..patents, they own your food, if get their way they will own all your food.

Government FDA recommended maximun daily intake of 12.5 teaspoons of sugar per day.

Those are just some quick info.

guys, it's not the government that makes us fat, but we ourselves do it. Genetically modified foods were not created to undermine human health, but to solve the problem of hunger. if we had not invented this, now there would be hunger in the world and many people would die because of this. watch what you eat, exercise at least 3 times a week and you will be slim and healthy. stop shifting responsibility to the government because you are fat, only you are to blame, only you are building your life and your body. stop whining like girls, pull yourself together and do something for yourself

This! .. That's why health is wealth, just like wealth, you have to work for it and spend more for it.

Everything that is easy are most likely not healthy like fast food.

Well, first of all "the government" sounds like you mean all governments in the world.

And I would not argue with decisions and knowlage many years ago. I mean we all know that there was many stupid stuff in the past.

Reading this thread gave me an idea that some of the pro vaxx/government ass lickers here are big fat ugly motherfuckers LOL  

You have years and years to listen and experiment with your body.

There is still hope for OP.

The healthiest foods are the most delicious and satiating.---if you can't relate with this statement then you have a lot of work ahead of you.  

One very good example is some sort of yogurts with zero fat. I personally think that any processed foods are deadly, natural fats are actually highly needed in our body. Food companies are gaining billions annually poisoning the community and the government of course is highly supporting it because we are talking "billions" in here.



If this is the case why is it that most of the countries do not support agriculture that much? They are spending billions to make medicines that were caused by the processed foods rather than spending it on the local farmers and growers. 

If the government really cares about the well-being of the citizen they should have banned cigars and soda but they don't because it is giving them a lot of money.

I believe that the government has no reason to make you fat. Because of the advancement of biotechnology, any theory about health and nutrition is constantly changing.
The government's goal is  to make citizens to be healthy. It's just that the theoretical update is slower than the rapid development of society.

You can do a few things if the-medically  tests are available.

At 10 15 and 20 you can do the carb testing Dr Atkins used to do.

You fast for 16 hours then drink a coca cola like super sweet drink.

They measure how you body handles the carbs and you at least know if you should restrict carbs in your diet.

40% of Americans taking this test are like me they need a lower carb intake.

I am lucky that My body processes dairy meat nuts and seeds very well.

I also process colestoral very much the same no matter what fats I eat.

My wife tried the Atkins diet in the 90’s and lost 20 pounds but her text book perfect colesteral went a bit higher.

I have been doing the low carb atikins diet for 3 years. When I found I had the type 2 diabetes.

my good but not perfect colesteral stayed exactly the same.
Even though I add meals with lots of hi fat yogurt and good quality  cheese.

Removed rice
removed bread
removed pasta
no soda
no milk
but cream and butter are okay.

So I literally added 1000 calories in fats and protein and removed 600 calories of carbs

my weight stayed the same.
my colesteral stayed the same.

but my blood sugar dropped from a1c of 12.1 to 6.8
and my daily readings dropped from 260 to 120

It is tough to care for your self in different ways in different countries.

USA seems nice but god I could take you to a supermarket and 75% maybe 80% of the food is unhealthy.

In Nigeria there may not be enough meat and dairy available and too much rice or yams or carbs.

Since I saw your post, I have seen more corrections and facts, you are very right. Emphasizing on the government and dietary intake is just not a genuine reason why people are fat, it has to be related to gene, lifestyle and food consumption etc.

There is a gene called melanocortin-4-receptor gene (MC4R), such gene mutation has been one of the main cause of obesity. Although there are other genes (for example ADIPOQ, INSIG2 and PCSK1 etc) that can be mutated and resulting to obesity. Although, the genes are linked to excessive eating and obesity, but yet later the genes are responsible for some people that will not eat much after being obessed but yet not reducing in weight that resulted to big problem.

Like me and most people that I know as a friend and my community, I noticed our diet, mainly carbohydrates like rice, wheat, yam, amala (grinded yam and casava, eba (prepared from casava flake), pounded yam, sweet potato, Irish potato and maize during maize season. I am very certain in Nigeria that 70% of our diet are made up of this foods while in each meal it is supported with meat, fish and soup. The main protein source from plants are beans family while the rest are meat, fish, egg and other animal by products, but we eat more of carbohydrates. Oil from palm oil and normal vegitable oils like soy oil, groundnut and sunflower.

I have read little about food consumption and daily requirements while using Guyton and Hall in the past, I noticed the food intake requirements corelate with the food intake in my community which are 65% to 70% carbohydrates, 20% to 25% protein while 10% to 15% fat/oil.

Even with the hard work and bad economy in my country, most people are not fat, while people that are fat should know to go to dietician for food recommendation. At first, some will wake up early in the morning and jog before going for work and it worked for some, while some do fast like until 12 pm before eating, or combining it with jogging and it worked for some people. Some will still later decide to just visit dietician for what could help them.

The body is very not the same, I have a friend that eat a lot but not fat and want to be fat, some eat plenty of carbohydrates and yet taken drugs like vitamins and suppliments in order to be fat.

You are correct because no one way to have healthy weight.

At poker player people simply are afraid of how much their set of genes affect them.

Okay my known genetic flaws

1) colorblind
2) near sighted
3) asthma
4) never could process carbs correctly.

My good genes
1) dairy easy peasy no issues
2) meat easy peasy no issues
3) nuts and seeds easy peasy no issues
4) no high blood pressure
5) high iq

How the us government attacks things

1) they allow rBGH in dairy

that is a synthetic growth hormone

It is banned in Canada and in Europe

I can't digest dairy with that hormone as well as 'normal' dairy

If I eat hormone filled dairy and later on do a bowel movement it will feel as if I passed a normal sized stool say the size of a banana but it I look at the stool it is the size of my pinky and black and tar like.

Why is this?

Simple rBGH jacks the milk up with far more casin a protein my body say oh I can digest this and works hard real hard to digest it leaving a tiny amount of waste pinky sized versus banana sized.

This means all the other food you ate was also super digested.

Which is why calories in to calories burn is false.

It disregards super digestion of you food or

lack of digestion of your food.

I wish I was wrong but I know for a fact how badly the American public is played about food.

Here is a product designed to "help" diabetics

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Leaf-Unsweetened-Brewed-Calories/dp/B015Z6WJDY/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?

only 2 ingredients brewed black tea and citric acid


they do not tell you they make it in the same plant as this

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Leaf-Extra-Brewed-Bottles/dp/B00XOOP95U/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?


and in fact after they make 10000 or so bottles of the super sweet and then do the unscented making 10,000 bottles they use the same machine

So the first 500 bottles of unsweetened are sweet.

Took me 2 months to figure why my sugar numbers went up

I now make my ice tea with this

https://www.amazon.com/Lipton-Black-Bags-100-Natural/dp/B07B1NP8JT/ref=sr_1_2?

and zero sugar spikes occur.

I have found the above to be true with more than 25 other products.

Yes there is. Fasting works for everybody.


You and suchmoon agree on the same idea, as do others who have commented in the thread, but you are not right. Your model does not explain why insulin makes you fat even if you consume the same calories.


Dr. Fung's latest video is precisely about that idea.

How To Lose Weight (Controlling Body Set Weight) | Jason Fung



Your model can't explain this:



Or this:




Apart from individual variability, I understand that the older you get, when you have been eating a carbohydrate-based diet 5-6 times a day for many years, the worse and worse the machine works.

The government have made me fat because ever since I left school,I've been in the house pressing my phone,eating without going anywhere.No government opportunity for me to work, the country today,if you don't wake up to do something on your own,you'll be left behind.

Yes, everyone is different. Some diets work for some people, other diets for other people. There is no single diet that works for everyone. But the fact remains that if you burn off more than you consume, then you lose weight. The solution is the same, it's just that the specific route taken (from a food perspective) to get to that solution will vary from person to person. Although some degree of exercise is generally beneficial for everyone.

There is no simple answer to this question.

When only talking about the U.S., then the average man, aged 20 years or older, weighs 197.6 pounds (lbs). He also stands around 5 feet 9 inches tall and has a waist circumference of 40 inches. This is according to dataTrusted Source collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) between 2015 and 2016 and published in 2018.

In contrast, the average U.S. woman is both lighter and shorter, weighing 170.6 lbs, standing 5 feet 3.7 inches tall, and having a waist of 38.2 inches.

Within the U.S., the average weight for men varies with age. Younger and older men tend to weigh less than those in middle age.
-https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320917#average-weight-of-men-in-the-us

Read the thread.

I am six feet tall I weigh 194.

I weighed as much as 256 and as little as 172 as an adult.

I am 64 years old.

semi retired.

I sit on a stationary  bike three times a day and do 30 minutes each time.

Right after each meal.
I eat keto as low as 20 carbs on some days.

my a1c has dropped from 12.1 to 6.8 no meds.

if i eat a desert it is usually fresh strawberries with fresh whipped cream that has a little bit of maple syrup in it.

Your body and my body do not process foods the same = fact.

you should know how you process carbs the late doctor atkins developed a test.

if you fail it you need a lower carb diet.
if you fail it and have nut allergies it will be harder for you since nuts are great food for lower carb diet.
if you fail it and do not process corlesteral badly atkins diet gets tougher.

I am lucky in the sense that no matter how much meat and dairy I eat I process it very well.
May be due to my viking grandmother.

so I have good corlesteral
I have good sugar with keto diet.

All the bowls of cereal for fifty years each morning were terrible for me.

And fat milk would not have fixed it.

I make an omlet every two days

 eight eggs
qualty meat
peppers
onions
quality cheese.

it serves two breakfasts and two lunches it reheats quick and easy.

after breakfast I get on the recumbent bike and pedal while i use the ipad
after lunch  I do the same.
after dinner i may look at netflix on the bike.

It is a good routine that many desk job people could do.
you dont whale away on the bike you pedal whille you do some pc work.

Yes. I hope we can all agree on this. The body processes different foods differently. 100 calories of spinach is very different to 100 calories of chocolate. And we are biologically predisposed towards eating stuff that in large quantities is bad for us.


Government advice is one thing, and may need changing, but by itself it's not enough, because...


... because weight loss is, fundamentally, a simple maths problem, burn more than you consume. Governments and companies dispensing bad advice or encouraging us to eat unhealthy food is one thing, but as individuals we also need to take responsibility for our actions. Cigarettes come with health warnings - and in my country, with graphic images of the damage they cause printed on the packets - but people still buy them. We are told to exercise more. But we don't. Whilst governments should endeavour to give us good advice, personal responsibility remains the major factor.

No man, no. You seem to refuse to understand. It's a hormone problem, it's not an algorithm. That's what this thread is about.

Not sure what arguments you want to hear. A picture of me on a bathroom scale? Not a pretty sight so maybe let's skip that.


I don't see how replacing non-miracle guidelines with a non-miracle overhyped diet is the solution but I strongly believe in anyone's right to get fat or slim any way they choose. It would be good for you to tone down the absolutism and look at the big picture. Weight loss is a simple math problem. Burn more calories than you consume. If keto is how some people find it easier to do it - great, but I've seen too many miserable ketotonic donut-craving muggles to trust any hype about it.


Ok. Perhaps you're technically right. Eating counts as doing something I guess.

This is very true.  True with food.  True with financial support.  True with housing.  True with vaccinations.  If you think these people have your best interests at heart, you are a fool.  We are merely viewed as cattle to them.  Similar to sheep that need to be just enough alive to continue providing wool for their shears.  What else do you expect from a government that doesn't tax candy but makes it illegal to grow food in your front yard?  You really think they care about you and your health?  If they did, they'd be donating to causes to help with medical care for the less fortunate, not forcing overpriced mandated health plans on the poor so that all of us non-elite are lumped together to carry the burden of public healthcare while the rich and politicians get to rake in profits with their healthcare investments.  They get reduced liability for the public's health situation, excluded from the public plan for their own elevated healthcare, the appearance of wanting to help, and tons of profits on their investments.  We get mandated healthcare plans, substandard care, high deductibles, and overcrowded offices.  All this while the foolish think they're trying to help...

Genes and our lifestyle both play a big role in if we are slim or fat. But this is just a base condition, it won't mean that we always have to stay fat or slim. We can change and adapt. Saying that we are fat because of the government or our genes is just an excuse. I can understand that we might not have the money to buy the most healthy products, but we can still do sports. Staying active is very important to lead a healthy life.

From the area I'm emphasising it's quit true that what causes human fat is not only the food's we eat alone the beginning of fat is confidence and gene, because some set of people don't have much food in their family but every time you see them they will be healthy, so it's caused by the gene which is embedded in blood, while some people indicates through much consumptions of food macromolecules.

The government do not force anyone to do anything, it is good for people to have their own studies about nutrition, natural meals is also very better than any other meals. It is not the government that will bath for someone, not the government that will drive someone to where he is going, not the government that will feed someone, government will only advice on what the scientists (what a or some scientists defended and seen true to other scientists) think it is right, not what only one scientist is say on social media. If someone is getting obbesed, there are diet regime that can be prescribed by dieticians to help, exercising the body can also help.

They only thing they control are things like corn subsidies. And the US is a big corn producer, so when corn becomes dirt cheap, what happens? You have food companies that switch from sugar to high fructose corn syrup. Mexico is a huge sugar cane producer, so it's cheaper just to use subsidized corn instead of paying for Mexican sugar. Still, no one is forcing you to eat unhealthy foods. They got the  kcals in clear view on every label, just don't pick up the twinkies at the grocery store.

I don't think the government is making us fat according to the current situation everyone is meeting their own needs and the government is not doing any activities achieve human nutrition and food security through family organic farming. The present growing population has undertaken various programs with sufficient awareness to meet the food needs as well as to ensure food security you don't have to depend on the government. People will take different initiatives for their own protection.

You  don't have to rely on the government of your country to provide opportunities,you have to go out there,look for what you can do and  start making effort towards doing them. It can only make you fat when you contribute positively towards your well-being,knowing fully well that your health is your highest treasure.

You are right, the government is not buying the groceries for us, nor are they putting the food in our mouth. But what they are doing is controlling the companies that produce the food. There are safety standards in place to protect consumers. Maybe the government could make better standards for the future, like preparing meals with less fat and sugar. The health of  the population should be a major concern for the government. With a healthier people the medical cost should be reduced and the life expectancy increased.

Precisely the opposite is what I have been explaining, and I see that you, again, simply assert the opposite without providing arguments. Good for you.


Current nutritional guidelines are definitely not a miracle and do cause health issues for lots of people.


It seems to me that you are smarter than these Charles-Tim-like arguments you are making. The latter is a false dichotomy. People can listen to their doctor (or better, consult more than one doctor) and also listen to certain Youtubers who happen to be doctors.

At no time did I say that they can lose weight doing fuck. What I have said is that the argument that you have to eat less and move more to lose weight is a garbage argument based on a flawed model that assumes that all calories are equal, that does not take into account the hormonal reaction of the body when we eat different types of food, that does not take into account that the body reduces basal metabolic expenditure and many other things. However, with ketogenic diets, you don't count calories and eat until you are well satiated and you don't need to move more to lose weight, although exercise should always be part of a healthy lifestyle.

Thank you very much suchmoon, Poker Player needs a lot to learn before making his blantant false arguments centering healthy living of not getting obessed on only daily dietary intake, while yet misleading people.

Even if the guidelines change, will anyone listen to them? Probably not. I wouldn't say I'm for or against a tax of bad foods. Perhaps just neutral. The thing is -- it is your choice to be morbidly obese. If someone is a healthy individual, should they have to pay the same tax for sugary or fatty foods that an obese person would have to pay? But also, the world is getting fatter and it costs a lot of government money to take care of obesity and obesity related sicknesses, so maybe there might be a public interest in getting people to put down the cheese burger and pick up a salad.

Well, it is a fact - government didn't really make (or unmake) me fat.


You're acting as if no one ever heard of keto or fasting. It's definitely not a miracle you're trying to make it sound like and can cause health issues for some people. And trying to tell people that they can lose weight doing fuck all is probably harmful too. People should talk to their own doctor instead of listening to youtubers.

If the society is too cushy, you are the one to go out and search for meaningful and reasonable thing to do, so as to keep yourself busy.Government can't really make everybody fat because not every body has the enthusiasm to be rich through government opportunities.Self employment can make you fat as well.

They made me fat by making society too cushy and not enough work

I am exposing the ideas of Dr. Bret Scher and Dr. Fung but I could mention many others. You mean they don't know how complicated the human body is? It's the other way around, the classical model that all calories are equal is too simple.


You see, that's why I didn't even read you, because you mix truisms with nonsense and twist the things I say. Just because you can lose weight doing keto without exercise does not mean that exercise is not necessary in a healthy lifestyle.

You are shifting this to obesity, some obessed people can be recommended ketogenic diet, like I mentioned before it is used in certain treatments, ketogenic diet is not yet proven to be good for normal daily consumption, only because it makes the body to reduce fat makes some people recommend it for obeesed people, not for daily consumption. Like I implied in my previous post that it is used in certain treatments.

All I can say is well done, go for your fat based diet, but I will not recommend people to doing such. All I have noticed is that you do not know how complicated the human body is, that is why you are commenting wrongly here. Continue your ketogenic diet without no physical exercise. And no need to comment generally on lifestyle focus your healthy living with your ketogenic diet because it will burn fat without no exercise. Maybe you are even implying physical exercise is not compulsory.

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Also the macronutrient daily consumption I posted above is not for obessed people, but for people that are not obessed. Obessed people needs to see dietician which will help them out.

Good.


No. I haven't. I decided not to read you anymore when I saw that in the first post you insisted on explaining things that I already knew as if I didn't know them.


Suchmoon and you have exposed the erroneous model that assumes all calories are equal. That it is the same to eat 2,000 Kcal of donuts, big macs and coke as it is to eat 2,000 Kcal of salmon and vegetables. Your theory is garbage because it assumes that the question of weight is a question of calories that is solved arithmetically. Nothing could be further from the truth. The weight issue is a hormonal issue. Your body reacts much better hormonally when you eat eggs, salmon and vegetables than when you eat Big Macs. That's why people lose weight by going on ketogenic diets without starving themselves. You can eat healthy food to your heart's content and lose weight without doing any sport at all. And you can eat less and move more according to the garbage advice you give, and still get fatter, because your body adapts and reduces the basal metabolic rate.

I will not post here further more than this. It is like you did not read what I have been posting. suchmoon and I had already posted the truth, and I furthered it to explain how olden days are different from now while many people are doing normal office job which are sedentary work, also including the processed and junks foods they are eating, while eating fruits is declining unlike before. While also people before were active and do even strenuous works and jobs that can help them to convert the carbo to energy and also muscles. Also, limiting it to only food consumption which really makes you very wrong. Instead to use lifestyle to focus on this topic, you are using only food consumption, very wrong.

I believe that simply changing the current nutritional guidelines for others that are more suitable for human beings would be enough. Do not tell people to follow guidelines that make them fat and diabetic, etc.

Why should they tax fats? If you talk about fats that come from vegetable oils I might agree, but not fats from eggs, avocados and butter.

Also to consider, male testosterone levels have been decreasing over the last few decades. Researchers say it's obesity, lack of exercise, and a sedentary lifestyle which might cause this. This could lead to fertility issues too.

https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20120325/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed

So all things considered, does the government have a responsibility to help fight obesity? Should they implement a tax on fatty foods?

Normally, is it the government only that will tell you everything? But I will never advice people for high fat diet. I just watch the video today, while the second link in the second paragraph was http and also unable to work. Did you know that according to scientific research, that eating cholesterol does not contribute to plasma cholesterol level in the body, it is fat intake that is resulting to high cholesterol level.

Obesity can not just be focused only on dietary intake, there are many other factors responsible for obesity

• gene
• process foods
• junk foods
• certain type of medication
• sedentary work and no exercise
• overeating
• eating too much of simple sugar, but I still recommend what I posted above but which focus more on complex sugar (starch)
• not exercising the body

You can not limit it to just eating of carbohydrates, it is also clear how fasting can help, some people will have to fast during certain period of the week which is helping.

There are different types of carbohydrates (primary, secondary and complex sugar), complex sugar like starch not does have much significant effects like you are thinking. Most foods Americans are eating today are processed foods which have highest calories and simple sugars. The recommended simple sugars are the ones contained in fruits (not processed foods) which have a unique way it combines and that will be helpful for the body.

You are talking about diabetes, you did not talk about how the world are not eating natural foods unlike before, now they are eating factory processed foods while many are made up of simple sugar.

You did not also talk about how our forefathers were active unlike the sedentary jobs of today.

You can put it the way you want. This is not about what you recall or not , this is about facts.


What Dr. Fung says is that he started out telling people to eat less and move more, which is advice that does not work in more than 90% of cases. I would explain why but with that attitude you have of thinking you are right and that's it instead of being open to new ideas, I'm not going to waste my time.

Then he discovered fasting, which at first he thought was nonsense and low carbohydrate diets, which not only work much better than the garbage advice you and the government give, but has given spectacular results curing type 2 diabetes.

It's funny that you call him a windbag, which is an ad hominem that shows that you have no weighty arguments to refute what he says.

There are two centers located in the hypothalamus of the brain that is responsible for food intake and satiation:

• feeding center
• satiety center

I do not have to talk in details about this centers as I believe you know about it already, but we should talk more about how the centers are regulated with food intake mechanism. In normal physiological condition, appetite, taken in of food and satiation are well balanced and are regulated by the following mechanism:

1. Glucostatic: The glucostatic cells of the satiety center are stimulated by glucose (increase in blood glucose level), which activates the satiety center which later makes the continuation of food intake result to feeling of fullness in which the feeding center is inhibited leading to someone no to be able to take in food. After some times, the blood glucose level will decrease, the satiety center will become inactive, so the feeding center will not longer be inhibited.

2. Lipostatic: a peptide secreted from fat cell (adipocyte) called leptin also have roles it plays by inhibiting the feeding center, this leads to loss of appetite, this is the only what you are emphasizing on.

3. Peptide: the by-products of protein. Some inhibit or stimulate the feeding centers. So it depends.

The body is so complicated than to just conclude that carbohydrates makes people to be hungry, if you have a balance diet of:
Carbohydrates 65-70 percent
Protein 15-20 percent
Fat 10-15 percent

you will be full and it will take time before the next hunger will set. Also making sure you are eating different varieties of foods and fruits that contain this macronutrients is very important.

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Have you even heard of anabolic diet before? This is only recommended for people involved in sport and for muscle building for peak performance, not usual diet recommended for normal people.

And also ketogenic diet which is used in form of a treatment, especially use for certain type of epileptic treatment in children. This is not also usual diet that people should eat.

See here for satiety values - https://www.diabetesnet.com/food-diabetes/satiety-index/

Satiety values are not about calories, it just means how different foods will make you feel full. So carbohydrates (breads and pastas) are all empty calories that have don't make you feel satisfied, so you eat more and more. Leaner proteins, fish definitely, makes you feel full and the kcals aren't bad either. I haven't heard of elevated nitrogen levels just by eating a high protein diet, so that lady might've had other health conditions going for her. Plenty of people do high protein low carb diets with no problem.

The sugar that has really side effect is table suggar (sucrose) which which is broken down into glucose and fructose. I have seen nothing wrong with the most abundant in diet which is starch which is broken down into only glucose which is very important for cell functioning.

I have read a news of a woman in my country that is obessed, eating less amount of carbo, but more amount of protein intake. She suddenly died in her house one day. Doctor linked her death to nitrogen buildup in her blood body.

Less than that of fat

1 gram of carbohydrates will produce 4 calories of energy
1 gram of protein will produce 4 calories of energy
1 gram of fat will produce 9 calories of energy

To avoid stroke, myocardiac infarction, kidney failure, angina and many other high blood pressure (hypertensive) related diseases, fat should be the lowest consumed.

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Even, if you check the traditional food intake, carbohydrates are more while protein and fat are also necessary but less taken in than carbohydrates. Although, African, Asian and American countries food intake slightly differs in this macro nutrients, but carbo are yet still more in the three. I am certain it will also still be more in European countries and Australia.

Trust me when I say there isn't a human in the first world that has any problem getting carbohydrates for glycolysis. Carbs are so abundant that we have such a tough time keeping them away, and seeing that just about every food is loaded with sugars or sugary syrups (high fructose corn syrup), you can't avoid it. You don't even need to exercise, just keep away sugars, get in a lot of protein (protein has a high satiety value, in fact, carbs on the other hand don't make you feel full, yet they're high in kcals).

Ketosis works as well (keto diet, low carb), metabolically all the fats you eat get broken down into fatty acids and then thrown into a catabolic pathway, but you need to watch for your cholesterol. 

You have commented rightly more about this. Like I implied already in my previous post, exercise is needed also, we can not expect someone with sedentary job not to exercise and not becoming obessed, exercise is very important for normal healthily body function and to also still reduce the bad cholesterol in the body (the low density lipoproteins). According to scientific researches, it is clear that intake of sugar (carbohydrates generally) can make someone obessed, even it is one of the dietary nutrient that many fatty people reduce in their diet. But for normal healthy diet, it must contain at least 65-70% carbohydrates which is very important for the glycolytic process and bodily energy generation, while some are stored in liver and muscles. But the excess will be converted into fat and amino acids which may result to obesity. But someone that is exercising oneself will not be obessed as many of the sugar will be converted into pyruvate which will be used in the energy generation process, while many lactic acid generated also from sugar will be use in muscle buildup rather than lipogenesis (fat build up) and also amino acid generation which can later resulting to obesity.

Let me put it this way: I don't ever recall paying attention to what the government tells me to eat (if it ever did) and blaming it won't make me lose weight. Diet and exercise works fine for me.

Even your "Dr. Jason Fung" seems to advocate "intermittent fasting", but overall he sounds too much like one of those "my diet is the best" windbags. I doubt his method works perfectly for everyone.

Precisely what you express is the mentality of the government. No wonder you don't blame them.

Dr. Jason Fung: "We Give This Horrific Advice to Eat Less & Move More. When They Fail, We Blame Them"

By the way, Dr. Fung is: "a kidney specialist in Toronto. He is currently the site chief of medicine at Scarborough General Hospital and the scientific editor of the Journal of Insulin Resistance." he is not a ridiculous conspiracy theorist like BADecker. He has several articles published in Pubmed on the subject.

As much as I would like to blame the government for making me fat, it's quite obvious by now that eating too much shit (well, not literally) and not exercising enough is the reason, not what the government may or may not say. If you want the real culprit, juicy burger ads probably do more damage but in the grand scheme of things -  personal responsibility FTW.

Behind all these things the medicine manufacturing companies are there and made different changes in different countries which will favour for them in the future that is what exactly we are facing after the 50 years. Every human spend huge part of their income to their medical expenses or atleast to their family member medical reason on the other side we taught to be slim and fit for that to take lot of medical supplements.

This is certainly a part of the problem. Considered generally (regardless of this specific instance), there is a lot of political lobbying by companies that push unhealthy foods, and there are also plenty of studies that are funded by these companies. Studies that are funded by, or that have links to, individuals and companies that have a vested interest in obtaining a specific outcome are of course not to be trusted.

Separate from my point above, it's worth considering sugar from the perspective of evolutionary biology. Sugar gives you energy. Fructose encourages the body to build fat. And, crucially, sugar was comparatively rare. Those of the ancient humans who had a strong preference for sugar (presumably, although I'm not an expert, this is where the reward-centre-stimulation comes in) could build more fat, and were more able to survive the leaner times. Sugar preference conferred an advantage in natural selection. Slowly, sugar preference spread through the gene pool.
So nowadays, after untold generations of evolution and selection, we very abruptly reach the modern age, where there is a superabundance of all types of food. We have evolved to prefer sugar. But it is no longer scarce, so we tend to eat more of it than is good for us.

I certainly believe that governments and companies could do more to encourage healthy eating, but even if we were somehow able to make free choices without any outside influences, we'd still tend to over-consume sugar.

With all the knowledge being easily accessible nowadays, a little confirmation of sources can give a lot of people benefits. And with all of these, it becomes quite easy to build dietary plans on whatever body type you have. Now we all know that too much of anything is never good which is why dozens of studies promote a balanced diet. If people only rely on information being fed to them without even doing their own research, then that would be their problem. They are basically letting big businesses take advantage of their gullibility at the expense of their health. These type of people are pitiful.

Two more points I would add to become fat recently. The first is the pandemic, in my country all gyms where closed for a year, there was completely no indoor sport solution. The only chance you had was going running on the park, or riding a bike. I used to play football and tennis and go climbing from time to time. All this stopped overnight and I gained 10 kg since the start of the pandemic. The second point is the cheap foot in the super market with a lot of fat and carbs.

I am not implying all fats are equal, saturated fats are fats that do freeze, while unsaturated fats will become hard to freeze and it will not freeze at room temperature (25 degree celcius) like saturated ones. There are bad fats and good ones, the best are the unsaturated ones, that is why I like sesame seed oil and others like olive. There is also much to comment about this as unsaturated fats are better than one another.

About omega 6 fatty acids, I think you should read this:

But the reason it is said not be be eating is maybe because it is present in food than omega 3, but yet very important in the body.

You don't need to swear that. You are basically repeating the nutritional guidelines even though you recognize how carbohydrates are fattening:


LOL


Not really. You eat the supposedly healthy cereal with skim milk for breakfast and after 2 hours you are hungry. You have fried eggs with bacon for breakfast and you last until noon

It should be noted that all fats are not equal, tran-hydrogenated fats, omega 6 are fats to be avoided.

I do not really understand this, but I do not know the dietary guildline set by United State...but with what has been researched about, too much fat consumption is not good for the body, while also too much protein.

The most potent nutrient in the body that can result to weight gain is sugar which mostly are the breakdown of starch in the diet, but it is not only glucose but others are also responsible, others primary sugar (fructose and galactose) which carbohydrates can be broken down into with the aid of gastrointestinal enzymes and are absorbed through the intestine into the blood stream then to be used to power (give energy to) the body and the remaining stored in the body, while many will undergo conversion process.

Aside that, body sugar can undergo the process of lipogenesis by converting into lipid and be stored in the body, also resulting to increase in body weight (this is the most common way people are increasing their body weight this day) including the conversion of carbohydrates also into protein for body buildup. Carbohydrates are more potent to even increase the body weight if compared to fat or protein, but a healthy diet must just still content 65% to 70% carbohydrates which I can not start to explain why than saying even too much fat (even healthy ones) will buildup bad cholesterol in the body which is the main cause of heart diseases and many other diseases, also too much protein will result to nitrogen buildup in the body that can result to untimely death.

The best is to eat balance diet, but also exercising your body for good health

The macronutrient balance diets are in this percentage

• Carbohydrates 65-70 percent
• Protein 15-20 percent
• Fat 10-15 percent

I hope you see how carbohydrates is very important in diet, but I do not know what you understand by this so far you eat balance diet, ones your food is made up of little fat and protein, the satiety center in the brain will surely be stimulated in which the person will be full and not able to wish to eat until the food as been disgeted and absorbed to certain level.

I Laugh hard at this lmao. Its like I already know who are you referring to exactly.

All jokes aside, I don't think the study matters right now as it is 44 years ago. The study is not even valid for references in recent studies for dietary purposes. But I do get the point that the stats really proves that it is not coincidence, but is correlational in which the study is directly correlated to the increase of diabetes diagnosed US citizen.

And I agree that, we should take care of our own health, Plus you can reference a lot of studies right now which have same results which validates their arguments.

Yeah, it's kinda like how way back all the nutritionists demonized fats but then the food companies started loading up on sugar, because "zero fat! was the eye catching headline. Then high fructose corn syrup became dirt cheap and they loaded up every food on the planet with sugary syrup. Even if you look towards government for nutritional advise (imagine doing that), how are they going control Americans from shoving burgers and chips down their gullet? Don't trust them for much.

In the same line as my other thead about Vitamin D, today I am going to talk about something else that I don't believe about what the government and experts recommend us.

I will mainly follow the ideas presented in this video: How the Government Made You Fat which is not made by a kid streaming from his mum's basement but by Dr Bret Scher MD and that is in line with many others, perhaps the most notable being Dr Jason Fung. Some of his ideas will also appear in what I am about to discuss.

In 1977 the US Government first set dietary guidelines. The average american male weighed 170 pounds, he now weights 197 pounds, and it's similar for women and kids. The percentage of americans diagnosed with type-2 diabetes has risen from 2% 1977 to over 9% in 2015

How did this happen? It all started in the 1950s, Ancel Keys published a biased study: The Seven Countries Study that determined that saturated fats were the main cause of heart problems. At that time, not much importance was given to the problems that tobacco could cause on the cardiac system: Cigarettes were once ‘physician’ tested, approved.

So the conclusion was simple: lower your fat intake and you'll lower your heart disease risk.

But there was only one problem: Keys' study was bad science. The sample size was very small and he did cherry-picking, leaving out countries like France with high consumption of saturated fats and low rates of heart problems.

The food pyramid was created. As americans started eating less saturated fat, they in turn started eating more supposedly healthy grains, sugars, and most importantly, they started eating more frequently. Total calories consumption increased. Foods that are high in sugar stimulate the reward centers in the brains, making us want to eat more, unlike fats that stimulate the secretion of leptin, the satiety hormone, therefore making us eat less.

The result is a fatter population with greater and greater health issues.

As in the case of Vitamin D, where the experts' recommendation to hide from the sun was followed by a sustained increase in melanoma cases, the experts' nutritional recommendations were followed by a sustained increase in weight in the population and diseases derived from this weight increase.

The conclusion I reach is simple: don't rely on the government to take care of you. Take responsibility for your own health.