Topic: How to cash out btc from online work without kyc crap and fees as good as... (Read 401 times)

Links to gift card fraud will put your Amazon account at risk, though. There are countless stories about account closures linked to Amazon gift cards bought from Localbitcoins or purchases made on Purse.io. People have even had the police bust in their house with search warrants because of them.

This is why I don't buy Amazon gift cards P2P at all. I only deal with trusted vendors like BitPay or Bitrefill.

With physical gift cards in brick-and-mortar stores, this isn't an issue. I'm much less concerned about fraud there since there is no link to my identity.

Trading with trusted members may not guarantee that the cards are legit as mentioned above but it definitely guarantees that you'll get a refund if things go wrong (unless stated otherwise in their TOS).

The only way to protect yourself from carded GCs is to use them immediately after redeeming. That doesn't work with all services though. Services selling digital goods like Steam, for example, will revoke anything bought using that card while shopping sites like Amazon cannot do that.

Avoiding scammers? You can't... They're all over the marketplace in this forum.

All you can do is mitigate the problem... Be VERY paranoid. Insist users send you "validation" PMs from a Bitcointalk account using either signed messages from a staked address or using a unique codeword that you make up on the spot so you can be confident that you're dealing with the correct person and not an imposter.

Don't deal with newbies if possible.

Try and avoid Telegram. Document everything (screenshots of PMs and Telegram where users can unilaterally delete entire conversations at any time! ).

Use Trusted Escrow!... Avoid anyone who refuses to use escrow.

Avoid any "auto buy" deals like selly.gg.

Be wary of users using self-moderated or locked threads that want to deal offsite.

Be very suspicious of extreme discounts (likely stolen, fake or carded)

meh. dealing with traders who are trusted or have a good reputation doesn't guarantee the source of their gift cards are legit. anyone offering 15-30% discounts is questionable in that regard. to me, it's just not worth the headache. i wouldn't have peace of mind if i had lots of money tied up in secondhand gift cards.


it seems like the OP discovered the secondary gift card market and wants to make money off it. i'm not sure he sees the downsides clearly enough.

Well in my opinion it offers more protection for the buyer and seller than some other places but if you like sending bitcoin to people you don't know over the internet then i'm sure you can find some people.

You might not wanna do that. There is no protection from ebay regarding digital currency sales. And, as you know, Bitcoin transactions are irreversible.
There are many platforms where you can sell bitcoins other than ebay.

I would suggest trying to use Ebay so you don't get tossed around too much.

I still don't understand why gift cards instead of selling crypto directly for fiat here on the forum or on LocalBitcoins? What's the issue?

No but I thought that would be minimized if only dealing with trusted guys on here?

gift card trading belongs on the digital goods forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=93.0

the currency exchange rules/guidelines generally apply:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/currency-exchange-rules-and-guidelines-594959

if you respond to offers, stay away from auto-buy links, locked threads, and self-moderated threads. those are commonly used by scammers.


are you accounting for the risks of receiving fraudulent gift cards? those are gonna cut into those margins very quickly.

Hey again guys could you give me any advice tips for how to post a trade offer on the marketplace? What to put plus how to avoid scammers.

It would be for any popular giftcards; steam, amazon etc.

I initially thought I could do that trick with purse.io but when I got to their site and saw their terms I was reminded they do not allow giftcards for purchases, only physical items.

I had tried the giftcardexchange reddit sub but had issues. Their rules seem extremely strict to successfully post there. I understand that it is to stop scammers of course but because my account is not 'active' they remove my posts. I do not use reddit for constant posting (only the odd call/response question) so it is not suitable for me. I didn't see such a litany of requirements for posting in this (bitcointalk) forums' marketplace so asking for some tips to get started there.

People above said it is going to be stiff competition for giftcard exchange but the usual margin people ask is like 20%+ isn't it? So long as I go above the 3-5% people said to cover the fee which is asked to use the marketplace then the rest is profit isn't it and I was more doing it to flip it to re-saleable product and the margin I can make is all a bonus.

So any tips welcome and of course including advice pertaining to avoiding those pesky scammers.

I would like to do a test run first then go from there.

I think you have to invest first Then you can understand how to make BTC cash transactions from working online without doing as good as the keycap crop and fees. You have to make transactions in places that want to get up and running quickly and there is no KYC and no fees so you can adjust everything There will be no risk of getting a scam but in most trades you will need to be prepared for the fee so the fees will be deducted.

Look at some of the convolutions mentioned - suicidal risk or insane competition which'll mean losing 20-30% or more on gift cards - when you were unwilling to pay another 1-2% in fees.

The roof over your head depends on offloading £1000 in John Lewis vouchers by the end of the week? That's not a problem I'd want to have.

KYC it and forget about all these suggestions.

The only issue is whether an exchange will go weird about adult dealings and whether they're directly traceable to the coins you deposit. If they're not then you have nothing to worry about. If they are then check every exchange's terms and conditions. Some will be American puritan freaks. Others will be actual adults.

I would've thought it would be vastly less radioactive than gambling as there are no actual laws against it so most should be fine with it.

Can you tell which site you are working on so that we can know what channels your web panel supports. Anyways be ready for the fees which may range easily upto 5% as a withdrawal fee and you need to adjust on it. By the way how much do you earn weekly or monthly ?

Sadly, you're not likely to be able to get your cake and eat it too.

You'll likely end up needing to do KYC to go the quick and easy route with an established exchange that has reasonable fees and fast transfer times... or you'll take massive risks of getting scammed by dealing with private individuals offering "low margins"... or, for established, trustworthy individuals, you'll likely find they have larger margins.

It's a bit of a "Time - Cost - Quality" Triangle situation.... but it would be "Low Risk - Low Fee - No KYC"... pick two.

I would spend it. But of course sellers always know to who they ship things. So not really without KYC.  You should get someone, that want to get rich fast, to sell your bitcoins for cash. That is pretty much your only chance. When dealing with fiat money most governments demand KYC. 

You can, but expect stiff competition with those offering between 70-80%+ here. And I tried cashing out in BTC before but didn't have any takers, liquidity is kinda low.

I've not used Purse but I've read reviews its relatively safe. Or if you want a quicker option, try r/giftcardexchange (you've to build some rep while DYOR by sticking to trusted buyers. You'll be swarmed with PMs coming from scammers so keep your eyes peeled).

How's about swapping for giftcards and reselling them either here or on purse. Is that fairly safe?

Good markup for that too from what I saw previous on this forum.

I guess you are back to the paypal dilemma there again. Is it safer to sell them on ebay or just as risky? I know a guy said he has sold GCs on ebay many times 'no probs'. I think this forum is more a den of scammers (though also trusted guys here too don't get me wrong but it attracts more scammers I am guessing) than ebay whereas surely scammers are but maybe in lesser quantity?

Good point about CB's, as said above not generally an issue with trusted members and a reason the majority of trades are done under Friends and Family. The thing is that with newer accounts it can be a hacked or stolen account so with people that have years of trade history there is reduced risk. It all comes down to the level of risk you are comfortable with, I have put myself out there many times from the time I was a Full member up and have avoided any issues using PP and forum members.

The person I pointed you to generally does a 1:1 trade as well. You being newer though will likely be expected to send your BTC first until you build up a reputation. Just again do your research and make sure you are comfortable before proceeding, if you do proceed.

You will have to do some digging g and see what option is in your best interest good luck.

It is and its the part of the game. Usually "trusted" members won't put their reputation on the line for a couple of hundred dollars but yeah you are basically putting the ball in their court if they want to screw you or not. 2-5% usually is in the form of "shitty" exchange rate basically. Yeah, If I were you I would be using something like Skrill for converting BTC to Fiat and call it a day. They charge 1% on BTC to FIAT and Flat 6.5$ per withdrawal. Up to $10K per day I believe.

Is charging back not the big problem with PP? or is it a case of putting faith in trusted members on here that they would not do a CB? I deal with chargebacks already with my work it sucks! but still people said earlier 3-5% is expected fee with forum trades? Makes it not worth it for me.

In that case you might do well in the Currency exchange section as mentioned. There are a few long time traders there that deal in Euros for PP, the only reason I don't trade with one anymore is the fees transferring to CAD became to high. Here is a link to someone I've dealt with previously and have been a consistent buyer for years, so they may be a steady trading partner for you depending on your volume. I always suggest performing your own due diligence. There are others I've just never dealt with them.
[HAVE] $570 and 180 EUR Paypal [WANT] BTC ETH (1:1 green trusted Legendary user)

Edit: Yes with bisq take it slow, I've heard good things but that was after taking time to build up trades and paying attention - should always be done. I've just never gotten around to testing it myself.

Thanks for other suggestions.

I really do love the idea of bisq. I have heard mixed reviews on it.

I also like the idea of gift cards and such since they do not run the risk of drying up like other payment methods changing their rules etc (though it could be possible if cards found abuse I think it is less likely than other ways I dunno). Purse is interesting and in UK I remember when I needed to buy there was hardly selling and only for huge fees so I think that could be another option as people are very eager to buy I bet but that was a big hit for taking money out; maybe with a decent discount it could offset the withdrawal fee.

Bisq I love the decentralized idea the most really whether it 'works' I would have to look deeper.

Are giftcards/visas generally safe against scamming? With both those you still need to do another step to cashout. I can see those are fine for everyday stuff like food (with visa) but what about rent? which will be the majority of my expenditure month to month.

I am in UK.

Anyway it is good I have a lot of knowledgeable people commenting.

I like the idea of cash in the post which used to be a thing on localbitcoins when I used to buy in the past (seemed a good deal for both parties in terms of low fees for the buyer and relative safety for the seller) but I wouldn't want to have randoms from all walks of life sending to my home address so maybe hire a PO for that but then they might call authorities if they found out money was coming to it from AML etc?

What country are you in? That does make a difference on what services are available to you, as well as if you should take any other precautions in setting up trades. Atm's will likely take a larger cut than you are comfortable, I've heard good things about bisq once you've been there a while you tend to build up a good group of traders. I've used the Currency Exchange section mentioned on the forum to build up a mini network of people I am comfortable trading with in my country. I am also lucky at the moment as we have a buy/sell service provider that doesn't require KYC for under 1000 CAD - I love it they are great when I need to move some right then and there pays out in a day or so usually direct to bank or utility bill if I want 

There are plenty of options for trading peer to peer. As OmegaStarScream has mentioned, there is the Currency Exchange board on this forum you can use to trade directly with other members (pay attention to their trust ratings and use an escrow if in doubt). Decentralized exchanges are another option, such as BISQ or Hodl Hodl. Ideally you can use one of these platforms to find a regular buyer in your country who will buy your bitcoin repeatedly from you in cash, bank transfer, or similar. Local bitcoin meetups are also a good place to find regular buyers. See if there is a low fees bitcoin ATM near your location which doesn't require KYC.

Alternatively, rather than trade it for cash, you can use a site like Bitrefill or Coinsbee to trade it for gift cards for your regular stores or prepaid Visa/MasterCards which you can use in lieu of cash.

No I can't choose to be paid like you say. I work with cpa companies and they aren't flexible like that. You have to choose options from their webpanel only.

Thanks for the suggestion though. Hmm 2-5% for trade on forums, not appealing either .

You have to swallow either one of the pills. You decide which one it will be. @OmegaStarScream has given you the best alternative I can think of. Run your own Server. There are 1 click deployment^[1] solutions out there, so you don't even need to know the technical side of things and exchange your BTCs on this subboard... The downside is you will end up paying 2%-5% while exchanging with users here. Also, there are many trusted escrows around here you can involve them while doing your exchanges which again will add up in your exchange cost. The ball is in your court, decide what it will be. Good luck!

---

Source:
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oce_fvRdLLY

Centralized payment processors like BitPay would've worked but since you're dealing with the adult/porn industry, that won't help as its against their TOS.

1. Use BTCPayServer to accept payments. (third party hosting if you don't have any technical knowledge).
2. If you are from Europe, sell your BTC using SEPA at Bitonic (no KYC required). If from elsewhere, then I would suggest using PayPal or Skrill and trade on the forums. There are many long-term suppliers that you will have nothing but smooth transactions with them.

...transferwise (like 0.5% to get into hard cash)?

I work online with online based adult businesses and these fuckers (payers) are constantly discontinuing payment services. No sooner will I have gone thru the hoops of verifying with a certain payment processor ie paxum or epayment than next month the company who pays me will discontinue that processor with no reason or warning and I have to hunt for another solution.

Btc however seems to be on the way to becoming more standardized in this field which is good but getting it to the normal everyday currency is the hurdle so I am wondering how I could use btc to get paid while still getting it out to local currency with the nice fees like you get with transferwise of 0.5% range. I know you can sell it for even a nice profit but that seems a whole other ballgame and opening yourself up to scammers and all kind of shit. Also when you need to pay for food and rent constantly you don't want to have to be waiting on a buyer and then as above you could risk missing payments if some hijinx of scamming occurred one month unless you had a buffer (I don't earn enough to have a buffer so need access to it post haste, like within days or a week or so really).

So any ideas? I would really like to go this route but didn't find a viable way yet.

Oh yes of course there is the swallowing the centralization pill and just verifying ID at one of the big exchanges but that kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it? I mean maybe it is a lesser evil to do that for my specific use case above to avoid constantly playing catch up with the other payment processors going down as the btc payment option seems to stay constant but long term I am wondering are there better ways with no middle man whilst not having the risk of scammers from selling and also very low fees on par with transferwise. Even with exchanges though I knew a guy who did some trading and he still ended up with about 2-3% fees so that is worse than transferwise by a good deal.