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Topic: How to create 12 words seed instead of 24 words on Trezor Model One (Read 122 times)

legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Yes you're right. I've tried it and that's precisely how it works actually, Electrum just ask a new passphrase and use the seed from the device but it doesn't generate a new seed.  I've been able to use the "Electrum" wallet with its passphrase into Trezor Suite though. I didn't reset my Trezor HW so I didn't test it with a virgin device, so @Forsyth Jones could you confirm the process only works with a HW reset to factory settings? Or I didn't do things the right way?
Trezor hardware wallets can only hold one seed at a time. Therefore, it would be logical that if you created a new 12/24 words seed using Electrum as your software wallet of choice, you would have to do that on a factory reset device or the hardware wallet would have to be wiped of its old seed somewhere during the new wallet's creation process.

If you like experimenting and have copies of your seed (which you should obviously have) that you can easily access, you can always reset your Trezor to factory settings and go through the wallet creation via Electrum to see how it looks like.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
Yes, you can fully configure a new Trezor wallet through Electrum, the seed generated is BIP39 and the steps are exactly the same as in Trezor Suite. When creating/configuring a Trezor in Electrum, the seed is saved on the Trezor device and not in Electrum. It only acts as an intermediary, just like when configured via Trezor Suite. It is not an Electrum seed.
I remembered the initial setup process wrongly. In my mind, you had to enter the recovery phrase on your computer and the Trezor Suite, so I thought you would also have to do that in Electrum. But that's wrong. The seed words are only displayed to you on the screen of the Trezor One. It's the passphrase that needs to be entered in Trezor Suite on your computer and that is surely also the case with Electrum.

Thanks for confirming that it works!
Yes you're right. I've tried it and that's precisely how it works actually, Electrum just ask a new passphrase and use the seed from the device but it doesn't generate a new seed.  I've been able to use the "Electrum" wallet with its passphrase into Trezor Suite though. I didn't reset my Trezor HW so I didn't test it with a virgin device, so @Forsyth Jones could you confirm the process only works with a HW reset to factory settings? Or I didn't do things the right way?

legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Yes, you can fully configure a new Trezor wallet through Electrum, the seed generated is BIP39 and the steps are exactly the same as in Trezor Suite. When creating/configuring a Trezor in Electrum, the seed is saved on the Trezor device and not in Electrum. It only acts as an intermediary, just like when configured via Trezor Suite. It is not an Electrum seed.
I remembered the initial setup process wrongly. In my mind, you had to enter the recovery phrase on your computer and the Trezor Suite, so I thought you would also have to do that in Electrum. But that's wrong. The seed words are only displayed to you on the screen of the Trezor One. It's the passphrase that needs to be entered in Trezor Suite on your computer and that is surely also the case with Electrum.

Thanks for confirming that it works!
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
Duelbits - Play for Free | Win for Real
To configure a Trezor One to initialize with 12 or 24 words of your choice, the easiest way is to do the configuration through a third-party wallet compatible with the Trezor One, you can use Electrum, which can be downloaded from its official website.

When configuring the Trezor through Electrum, you will have options to choose the length of the seed phrase that will be created and displayed on your Trezor, you can choose between 12 - 18 or 24 words.
I know that Electrum has an option to create a new wallet and use the option to connect it with a hardware wallet, but I am unsure regarding the type of wallet that is created that way. Since Electrum is creating the wallet, you should be generating an Electrum-native seed, not a BIP39 seed. But at the same time, you have a Trezor connected to Electrum, and the Trezor only supports BIP39 seeds and can't generate or recover native Electrum seeds. If someone knows 100% if this will work, please speak up.
I agree, it would be surprising and a bit concerning if Electrum is able to control your Trezor device and to generatae a new seed and wallet into it. Is this new seed/wallet available on Trezor Suite after that btw? And what happens if there is a bug? Could it harm the device definitely (I'm not even sure it's possible to reset to factory settings without using Trezor Suite)? I wouldn't use it even if it is feasible tbh, but I hope it's not otherwise it would mean that a corrupted Electrum version could do weird things on the HW.

Yes, you can fully configure a new Trezor wallet through Electrum, the seed generated is BIP39 and the steps are exactly the same as in Trezor Suite. When creating/configuring a Trezor in Electrum, the seed is saved on the Trezor device and not in Electrum. It only acts as an intermediary, just like when configured via Trezor Suite. It is not an Electrum seed.

Unfortunately, I don't have my Trezor One with me, as i cannot find it, otherwise I would show screenshots.
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
To configure a Trezor One to initialize with 12 or 24 words of your choice, the easiest way is to do the configuration through a third-party wallet compatible with the Trezor One, you can use Electrum, which can be downloaded from its official website.

When configuring the Trezor through Electrum, you will have options to choose the length of the seed phrase that will be created and displayed on your Trezor, you can choose between 12 - 18 or 24 words.
I know that Electrum has an option to create a new wallet and use the option to connect it with a hardware wallet, but I am unsure regarding the type of wallet that is created that way. Since Electrum is creating the wallet, you should be generating an Electrum-native seed, not a BIP39 seed. But at the same time, you have a Trezor connected to Electrum, and the Trezor only supports BIP39 seeds and can't generate or recover native Electrum seeds. If someone knows 100% if this will work, please speak up.
I agree, it would be surprising and a bit concerning if Electrum is able to control your Trezor device and to generatae a new seed and wallet into it. Is this new seed/wallet available on Trezor Suite after that btw? And what happens if there is a bug? Could it harm the device definitely (I'm not even sure it's possible to reset to factory settings without using Trezor Suite)? I wouldn't use it even if it is feasible tbh, but I hope it's not otherwise it would mean that a corrupted Electrum version could do weird things on the HW.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
To configure a Trezor One to initialize with 12 or 24 words of your choice, the easiest way is to do the configuration through a third-party wallet compatible with the Trezor One, you can use Electrum, which can be downloaded from its official website.

When configuring the Trezor through Electrum, you will have options to choose the length of the seed phrase that will be created and displayed on your Trezor, you can choose between 12 - 18 or 24 words.
I know that Electrum has an option to create a new wallet and use the option to connect it with a hardware wallet, but I am unsure regarding the type of wallet that is created that way. Since Electrum is creating the wallet, you should be generating an Electrum-native seed, not a BIP39 seed. But at the same time, you have a Trezor connected to Electrum, and the Trezor only supports BIP39 seeds and can't generate or recover native Electrum seeds. If someone knows 100% if this will work, please speak up.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
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The method you mentioned is indeed the easiest way to generate a 12-word seed phrase for the Trezor Model One, but last time I checked, those weren't compatible with Trezor wallet [or other HWs (it's only supported on a few SWs)] so you'll be quite limited in the restoration process and IMO, this method defeats the purpose of having a HW to some extent [I'd personally go with Pmalek's suggestion].
hero member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 540
Duelbits - Play for Free | Win for Real
Hi guys i want to create a 12 words seed phrase on Trezor Model One instead of the 24 words per default
but there is no option to choose 12 words seed despite trezor claim the model one support both 12 and 24 words
Does anyone know how exactly i can do that
To configure a Trezor One to initialize with 12 or 24 words of your choice, the easiest way is to do the configuration through a third-party wallet compatible with the Trezor One, you can use Electrum, which can be downloaded from its official website.

When configuring the Trezor through Electrum, you will have options to choose the length of the seed phrase that will be created and displayed on your Trezor, you can choose between 12 - 18 or 24 words.

It is recommended to use 24 words for the Trezor One, due to the fact that you have to type the words of the seed phrase on the keyboard, in a scrambled manner to prevent an attacker from being able to extract the correct order of the seed phrase, however, since the Trezor One scrambles the seed phrase, this risk is mitigated.

When you start a Trezor One with 12 words, the Trezor creates 12 new words just for scrambling purposes when you type your seedphrase on the keyboard for verification or restoration (if you are using the default simple restoration), however these 12 extra words are not part of your seedphrase, they will only appear for the purpose of scrambling, only the initial 12 words should be noted.


Security of 12-Word wallet backups

A 12-word wallet backup provides 128 bits of entropy, which is more than sufficient for the security of your private keys. Bitcoin uses elliptic curve cryptography and 256-bit private keys, but the security of the elliptic curve is around half of the used bits, resulting in 128 bits for the secp256k1 curve used.

In practice, it is highly unlikely that an attacker could guess or brute-force a 12-word wallet backup with 128 bits of entropy in a feasible amount of time. Thus, a 12-word wallet backup offers a high level of security that is sufficient for most users, striking a balance between security and ease of use.


Trezor Model One and the 24-Word wallet backup

The Trezor Model One uses a 24-word wallet backup to enhance security during the basic recovery process on the host computer. When you enter 12 words on your computer in random order, the entropy in random order may not be sufficient to ensure a high level of security. In this case, using a 24-word wallet backup is essential.


However, if you choose not to recover your wallet on the host computer and instead enter all the words directly on the device, a 12-word wallet backup is sufficient for securing your wallet. The Trezor Safe 5, Trezor Safe 3 and Trezor Model offer this functionality.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Trezor Model One creates 24-word seeds by default. However, if for some reason you want a shorter seed (12 or 18 words) you will have to use a Trezor command line tool called Trezorctl. It has several advanced features, among those are the creation of shorter recovery phrases.

Read the following sources for more information on how to use this tool:
Trezorctl on Windows
Using trezorctl commands

If you are not comfortable with this, I suggest you stick to the default seed, which is 24 words long.
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 11
Hi guys i want to create a 12 words seed phrase on Trezor Model One instead of the 24 words per default
but there is no option to choose 12 words seed despite trezor claim the model one support both 12 and 24 words
Does anyone know how exactly i can do that
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