Topic: How to safely sell Bitcoins on eBay? (Read 6688 times)

Looks like eBay is finally deciding to unclench it's cheeks a little. Hopefully PP will do the same...and be smart about it, which is asking a lot. Seems like BTC is following the inevitable conclusion of being required to have a physical form. Dunno if it'll ever be fully trusted if it doesn't.

http://www.zdnet.com/ebay-uk-to-allow-bitcoin-trades-but-only-in-classifieds-for-now-7000025380/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/21/ebay-clamps-down-on-bitcoin-sales-in-the-uk

I agree with most of what you said, but I have to disagree with using Paypal altogether. The best, most secure way to sell BTC on eBay is through the Virtual Currency category (will make you kosher on eBay terms), but you need to setup a bank transfer instead of using PP.

I spoke with the PP claims department yesterday regarding an immediate refund of $150 to one of my buyers. He informed me that it doesn't matter what form you attempt to sell BTC in (paper wallets, pennies, even wallets on USB sticks), they will not protect you. The reason for this is that the buyer can simply claim they did not receive what was promised (an empty wallet or envelope), even with shipping confirmation. Do you really want to rely on Paypal judgement at that point? At least with bank transfers, you're not running the risk of some pillock thieving your coins with a few simple lies.

Of course, this essentially makes you no better than any other pain in the ass method of getting BTC out there, but at least you're protected this way. The only risk I can think of is dealing with a stolen bank account. Even then, the chances of getting burned are still far less than dealing with PP...and even less if you deal in smaller amounts.

I sold BTC on ebay for a little bit and made some money, but I did get scammed a few times.  Additionally, PayPal will side with the buyer.  Also, like others have said above, eBay requires some sort of physical tangible item.  I was told by eBay that if I wanted to sell something that had no physical tangible item to be sent that I had to post it as a classified in "Everything Else>Informational" or something very similar to that.  If you post in that, from what I remember, eBay will charge you $9.95 for a 30 day listing.  I guess if you can sell enough BTC to cover that+eBay and PayPal fee's then it could be a way for you to do it.  Like others have said, it is prone to being scammed.  The best way I can think to do it is to list it on the classifieds area, then have them email you through the email that is attached to their PayPal account that they use to pay for the BTC and then send a paper wallet.  It is a hassle, and it may not even be that profitable.  At first when I started selling I was making between $2 to $4 dollars profit after fees.  However, with the setup I just mentioned your profit goes down close to a dollar or less due to the postage/envelope/ink/paper and whatever else you would need along with all the fees. 

I hope that gives you some sort of idea what kind of a hassle it is and what you can do to safely sell on eBay.

The way I outlined it up there probably isn't the best way, but that is what I would do.

Set up an auction for a penny ( list it as local pick up only) then in the title and description include the bitcoins as a gift (this will, in the end, determine the price)

at the end say the penny will be forfeited if not picked up in whatever amount of time but the gift can be kept and voila sold btc via ebay

Selling in small denominations can reduce your risk, at a cost of extra hassle. If you charge enough of a premium then you can potentially make up for any breakage through folk who are ridiculous enough to scam a few pounds out of you lol.

Personally I would seek other options like Bittylicious etc, but obviously that depends on the volume/flow of coins you have and whether you can be bothered with the hassle.

Could maybe try advertise on Gumtree and meet up with somebody. Explore paper wallets etc.

You can, but if you get caught youll get a no-no letter in your message box. 

This is the letter i got.

"Hello ********,
After reviewing your eBay account, it appears that you have violated eBay's Digitally Delivered Goods policy. As a result, we've taken the following action on your account:
- Violating listings have been removed. A list of removed items is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).

Listing digitally delivered goods outside of the Classified Ad format in the Everything Else > Informational products category is not allowed.

The guidelines for digitally delivered goods help prevent feedback manipulation or artificial increases in eBay seller ratings. The guidelines also help protect members by preventing item listings that may infringe on the intellectual property rights of others.

You can list most digitally delivered goods, but only if you use the Classified Ad format and list your item in the Everything Else > Information Products category.

Here's more information on our policy:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/downloadable.html

Virtual currency such as Bitcoin, Peercoin, Litecoin, and others, can only be listed in the Classified Ad format. Additionally, PayPal prohibits the transfer of funds for transactions related to virtual currency, therefore PayPal cannot be offered as a payment method for these items.

If you have more questions, contact our policy experts:
http://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/cusr?query=1387&domain=email1254

Please be sure your future listings follow these guidelines. If they don't, they may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including restrictions of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account. "

And after viewing the downloadable goods policy i found:

"Examples of digitally delivered goods that can't be advertised on eBay:
MP3 music copied from a CD you own or recorded at a concert
eBooks you don't own the copyright to and aren't authorized  to resell by the owner, the owner's authorized agent, or the law
Songs you bought from iTunes
Movies you copied from DVDs you own
Video games you copied from the original CDs
PDF files of product manuals or user guides that you don't own the copyright of or you aren't authorized to resell by the owner, the owner's authorized agent, or the law
Online gaming accounts or artifacts such as characters, currency , or other items in any format"

Keyword being Currency if you haven't seen it. 

Not only that, but this is what Paypal has to say about things:

"Per our current Acceptable Use Policy for Money Service Businesses, PayPal may not be used to operate a currency exchange, bureau de change or check cashing business including the sale of Bit coin.”

and the fact that:

"It’s illegal to operate a currency exchange – online or offline – without proper registration as a money transmission business. This is the same statute under which the US bank accounts accounts of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox were seized..."

I noticed that there were a lot of listings for say 0.1 or 0.01BTC and they were going for a lot more than they would cost on any other exchange. I had the idea to sell small denominations to maximize profit, but I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth the risk.

i don't have an answer to your ebay question but why sell on ebay? it's otc style and price could be low and risk is high. why not just sell on any exchange like ours?

eBay terms seem to be up to the interpretation of the person reviewing the case.  I bought a bunch of paper wallets that were supposed to be loaded with 1 BTC each, they had 0 each.  When disputing the cases I won 2 of them, but lost the third.  The seller knew to claim they were "intangible goods", and apparently the person reviewing the third case said "this item violates PayPal's Acceptable use Policy."  The item was clearly not as described, which I easily proved by showing them the blockchain information, but they decided to side with the seller.

The only thing I learned is not to use eBay and especially not PayPal for anything related to bitcoins.

Sorry to bring up an old thread but this comes up high in Google results and I felt I needed to clear up this misinformation. I've sold many digital goods over the years. I can assure you that the "selling a pretty picture or a funny joke" and then sending a "free gift" hasn't worked in years, and is explicitly stated in their rules. This will not protect you.

Also, while shipping with tracking will protect you from an item not received dispute, there is ABSOLUTELY NO SELLER PROTECTION for an item not as described dispute. If any buyer claims you sent an empty envelope, they will win every single time unless they appear to be an obvious repeat scammer.

I've browsed eBay before looking for BTC and other alt currencies but have found the prices to be overly high - you've got to bear in mind the fees the seller will incur. This with the added risk of chargebacks I would steer well clear.....

I am a long time seller on eBay and I know that no matter what you write in the terms of your sale if it conflicts with eBay or paypal buyer protection program it is ignored.

As a seller you are never protected with sales of non-tangible items, I.E: Ebooks, Scripts, Programs, Bitcoins etc.

But in the case of bitcoin you have the option of delivering a paper version of the item. If you want to sell bitcoin on ebay you must make it a physical item that is shipped and TRACKED for proof of delivery, with the option of instant delivery through the clients wallet. In this case I believe your transaction is protected under the seller protection program and no matter what the client does on their end like cancel the payment through their card, you the seller will be able to keep the money associated with the transaction.

You could also make a listing where you sell a physical item that includes a bonus free bitcoin or something like that.

I.E:

1 U.S Penny + 0.01 bitcoin bonus free directly to your wallet.

In this case you deliver the penny tracked, obviously, then send out the bitcoin payment. If a client tries to dispute the sale you have proof of delivery which is pretty much all you need to keep your money.
 

No more safe but it's the very last option to sell your Bitcoins on eBaY, jcoin200.

Yeah, Bittylicious is probably the quickest and easiest way to get BTC and FTC.

I'm sure if ebay creates its own marketplace for coins, the prices wont be much more than regular exchanges. They're only a massive premium because people will pay that just to get coins easily and with PP.

I bought my very first Bitcoin and LTCs and FTCs off ebay with paypal and no problems. It's a shame PP can be exploited by scammers so easily as it's a great  way to get coins simply and quickly.

I'm surprised they haven't already, but I'm sure they will in the future.

I am also curious of this. I have seen a million Infinitecoins go for $200+ on ebay. I bought 3 million off ebay a month ago for £7 and I thought I overpaid  .

I guess you could sell them for money orders, but you don't want to take any form of payment that could come from a victim of fraud(that likely includes bank transfers). The real solution here is that you have to trust the buyer. If you don't trust the buyer don't let them purchase from you.

I'm curious, have any of these auctions for obscene amounts(2-3x market rate) been legitimate?

It's not possible to sell BTC on eBay safely as eBay always give protection to the buyers for intangible goods such as virtual goods. So the best thing to do is to do it off of eBay and stay away from PayPal!

if ebay found out you were selling BTC through their services, and if the buyer sent a complaint to them, they'd probably just "freeze" your funds/paypal account... because BTC is a threat to ebay/paypal. they already enjoy fucking over sellers as much as it is, i doubt they'd flinch at the chance to stop bitcoins.

Would it be safe to send a paper wallet to their home address as long as they paid with a bank transfer or sent you a cheque or cash in the mail? Could they still open up a dispute? I don't think they could do anything that way, could they?

It's extremely stupid to sell BTC on ebay! There are 3x the risk of being victim to the reversal scam. First, they can claim they never received anything. Posting a wallet address to the ebay transaction is a good idea, but when it comes down to it, I don't think it will help much. Do you think the monkeys in ebay's resolution center will bother learning the logistics of bitcoin and how the blockchain works? That's outside of their obligations. If they don't see a tracking number for shipping, you won't be protected.

If the scammer doesn't win the dispute on ebay, he can try again on paypal. Selling BTC or other digital currency is actually against paypal's terms of service. There are just too many stories of paypal reversal scams when selling BTC.

If paypal is not in the scammer's favor, they can still file a chargeback if they linked their credit card to paypal. Credit cards almost always side with the customer (the scammer in this case).

NEVER consider selling BTC on ebay. That's asking to lose your BTC. Just pay the premium doing it on large exchanges, or do it through localbitcoins.com if you want low fees.

Bottom line is dont sell digital items through ebay/paypal because they will SCREW you.

I was an arrogant little shit and thought I was clever.

Not sure how someone could see their auction go to 3x the price at any exchange and not realize the buyer is a scammer.

ebay is too risky, especially with paypal. if you aren't using paypal, what would be the point? use localbitcoins instead.

The only possible methods to directly select are paypal (and bank transfer?) so you can't directly use anything other than those,and Although I am not sure but if you use any other (payment method) and were reported you might be suspended from e-bay.
And a side note although you must already know but PayPal is a no-go.

Ebay is not a safe place to sell. I can't recommend it.

I got scammed buying paper wallets.  The seller said they were each loaded with 1BTC (they weren't).  Then he knew eBay had a loophole that didn't protect "intangible goods" which they consider a bitcoin to be.  Anyway I ended up getting most of my money back, but it really scared me from doing any BTC deals on eBay ever again. 

Chargebacks are easy. If you send something, and you have a confirmation that SOMETHING was delivered, you're protected. Paypal is not evil enough to make you pay for people who (theoretically) had their card stolen and fraudulently used. Not yet at least.

I guess people also don't want to commit fraud/theft when they've given their home address out. Chargebacks still scare me though.

Ebay really needs to develop its own escrow service for dealing in cryptos. They're seriously missing out on a lot of cash.

They could, but that's a less common route of scam. Much more common is the chargeback. You are protected from chargebacks so long as you have proof of delivery. SNADs are harder than INRs to disprove.

What's to stop them claiming there was no paper wallet in the letter and still get a refund?

I lost over $800 to scams on ebay a year back or so.
Paypal will NOT accept transaction IDs as valid proof of delivery.
If you want to sell coin, you need to ship a tangible item.
Most of the good sellers send a physical slip with a keypair address on it to the buyer, via delivery confirmed USPS.

How did you get scammed buying BTC on ebay?

How small are the denominations? If it's tiny amounts for a few dollars then most scammers will leave you alone. Just make sure you state they can only buy one at a time and must leave feedback after each successful purchase before they can buy another. There are ways to significantly minimise getting scammed, but it's never gonna be 100% foolproof, so it's up to you whether you take the risks. One thing to note is the mark up on selling coins on ebay is huge, so even if you have a few chargebacks/disputes you still might be in profit, so that's worth considering.

But maybe not a credit card chargeback.  I was hoping someone on here has had success selling small quantities on eBay.  I am really scared to after being scammed once, but I am going to try to find a safe way to do it.

Wow. Frankly easier to just set up and verify an account on an exchange 

I believe making the buyer write his BTC address in the paypal note is enough to win a potential dispute.

I found this statement on a seller and thought it was good:

This auction is for 0.010 BTC (Bitcoins). Bitcoin is the world's first all-digital currency, and nothing  physical will be delivered. I will deposit the amount of 0.010 BTC (Bitcoins) to your Bitcoin address within 24 hours of your payment. It  may take some time to clear.


If you don't agree to all of my terms and conditions,  - Or do not meet the minimum requirements,   - Do not purchase this item.   - The transaction will be cancelled!!!


By purchasing this item, you agree to all of the following terms and conditions: You must have a Bitcoin wallet set up for me to send your 0.010 BTC. You must leave your Bitcoin wallet address in the "Note to Seller" field during Paypal checkout. The Bitcoin address you send me is final, so triple-check that it is correct. No refunds will be issued after  the coins have been sent.  You agree that having the transaction marked as confirmed on blockchain.info will be sufficient as proof-of- delivery of your 0.010 Bitcoins and that this confirmation is enough to end any and all eBay and/or Paypal  disputes in favor of the seller. To reduce scamming, Your Paypal account must be Verified with a Confirmed address. Your eBay account must have be at least 1 year old. Your eBay account must have at least 25 positive feedback Your eBay account must have at least 1 positive feedback within the last 30 days or 2 within the last 60 days Your eBay account must have at least a 99% feedback rating. In addition, to make sure your accounts haven't been hacked, I will send an email to your Paypal email to  verify the purchase as well as your Bitcoin wallet address. You must respond to this email within 24 hours. You must pay within 24 hours of purchasing the item. Do not order more than 1 at a time unless we already have a transaction history. Finally, I reserve the right to cancel any transaction for any reason. If you don't agree to all of my terms and conditions,  - Or do not meet the minimum requirements,   - Do not purchase this item.   - The transaction will be cancelled!!! Bitcoins are expected to rise significantly in value over the coming months. Get them cheap while you can! If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

As far as I understand a Purchase through Paypal cannot be reversed if you prove that the goods have been delivered. So make sure your buyer writes his Bitcoin address in the note when he transfers money to you through Paypal. That way you can prove you've sent the bitcoins to buyers address by pointing to the transaction on Blockchain.info.

Not even with MoneyPak?  Even if they send a receipt showing they paid with cash?

you cannot sell on ebay in any way that is not revesible

Anyone know of a secure way to sell bitcoins on eBay?  I'm thinking about selling mine in small denominations to increase profit, but I am worried about going through PayPal.  Is accepting MoneyPak safe/non-reversible?  I have been scammed once on eBay buying bitcoins and I am not going to let it happen again.  Thanks for any input.