Topic: How to stop paying taxes, and get out from under government control. (Read 791 times)

Is that a claim or a complaint? File it if you like.

Check https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bundys+jury+nullification&t=hd&ia=web for jury nullification.

Jury nullification is something that the people have forgotten about over the last 100 years. But they are waking up. Besides, Wikipedia doesn't show the truth except when it suits them. So, how do you know?

What you are doing is playing lawyer.

But you don't know anything about it.

For example, take one of your favorite mantras. Jury Nullification.

Here's an unbiased look at the subject. Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Pretty much shows that anyone that goes for it has at best a 1-5% chance, doesn't it?

Consider the court system. Often a judge or the attorneys in a case will site some other case from years before to make a point for upholding a certain position in the case at hand. And adjudications are often made based on these other cases.

But none of the other cases fit the current case exactly. If the defendant had the ability to speak in court - or maybe to even think - he might bring this up as a point for not using examples in other similar cases. If he did bring it up in the right way, it could change the whole outcome in his case.

The point? If you want to do a trial such and such a way, you are going to get such and such results. If 99% of the trials are done in such and such ways, there will be such and such results.

I am not suggesting that the law and tax code can be overcome (so to speak) using the standard approach. What I am saying is that when one uses other laws, codes, and court cases in other ways, to fight an IRS case, the outcome is essentially guaranteed to be different than the standard.

It's difficult to find court wins against the IRS, of the kind I am talking about, because the IRS often drops the case when it sees that they are going to lose. Often the judge or a prosecutor will dismiss the case when they understand that losing it could set precedent against the IRS. So, even if the records of the case exist, they don't show anything definitive.

The law is the law. All I am saying is that the law in the OP links is sufficient to stop not only IRS taxes, but even property taxes when handled the right way. If you don't want to believe that there is a possibility, so you don't really even look or consider, that's fine. Your choice. Or maybe you just don't have time to study it.

Actually I think your bluff has been called, and your antics and theatrics are on the line as true or false.

People here who have experience with the law and with the tax code know that your ideas on this subject are ridiculous.

However, some are not and they could be harmed if they listened to you.

Folks - whoever reads this - I apologize. It wasn't my idea to get PopoJeff all riled up like this. Now, everybody will have to be careful in his jurisdiction.

If he is DPS, or some other form of State cop, he will be out to ticket anybody he can, just because he is riled with me. So, be careful to be law abiding within his district.

No more going 2 or 3 mph over the speed limit. No more screeching tires even a little. Check your lights to be sure they are all working. And be sure to use your turn-signal for every turn, even if you don't think he is watching.

Most of all, get to the OP and follow the links. Study hard so that you know how to beat him in court when he bothers you for essentially nothing.

Again, sorry for getting him this riled at everybody. I know. He's riled at me. But he will take it out on everybody hoping that he might somehow get me. Does he have police brutality websites against him already?

There isn't any fight. There is nothing to win. The IRS has acknowledged what I am doing, and I don't pay.

You suggest to renounce my US citizenship. But that is exactly what getting State Citizenship is all about. Check the OP links. Not that anybody needs this. It simply makes things easier.

When I did the legal/lawful thing that I am telling you about, that is when the IRS penalties and interest went away.

Let me tell you one thing that is very important for you. In your state of mind, if you somehow find out that everything that I am saying is true, don't do it yourself. You simply don't have the mentality for it. Your mindset will cause you to make mistakes.

You are knowingly breaking the law as defined in the United States Code.  The 9th Amendment was not added to allow people to break the laws they don't agree with. LOL.

Your rights are not violated when you pay taxes.  You are fulfilling your obligation as a US citizen.  If you don't like it, renounce your citizenship and you will not have to pay taxes.

BTW, when a SWAT team swarms your compound one day, you will have about 2 minutes to drop your weapons, if you plan to walk again.

I am telling you, you cannot win this 'fight'.  You are breaking the law, you are getting away with it for now, but when they find out, they will come after you hard.

Who knows they might be already counting the penalties and interests and are just waiting for the right time to take it all away.

The law of the land is private property, and the right to contract based on it. This is shown by the jury in court, and the 9th Amendment.

Just because you say that all US citizens and permanent residents are subject to the federal income tax, doesn't make it true.

If some government agent or agency takes your property away, either you don't know how to protect it, or they are disobeying the law. Your labor is your property. Your income is simply a representation of it.

It's the fact that I agree with the laws that I don't pay income tax. If you would like to focus on a section of the law that talks about how much you should pay, rather than the section of the law that shows you that you don't have to, that's fine with me. Along with me, most of the rest of the people who focus on the non-paying parts of the law, don't pay, either.

If you are the US citizen, you must follow the law of the land (Title 26 of U.S.C.).  All US citizens and permanent residents are subject to the federal income tax.  It does not matter if you agree with it. You are liable and uncle Sam with come to collect.  Take away all your property and sell it at auction, freeze your bank accounts, take your precious AR15s and throw you in jail.

If you don't pay taxes because you do not agree with the laws, you will be charged with tax evasion.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26

yes...

Clueless again. You are so off in left field.
I dont know how else to explain it to you. I'm sure everyone reading this has figured it out.

But I'll try one more time before i leave you in your fantasy world.

I have no attorney to arrange this.

I do, however, represent the state in a 25sq mi area for 40hrs a week.  What I am telling you is... come commit a violation/crime of your choice where I have jurisdiction, in my district, while I'm working. You choose your action, one you think you can get out of with your red flag list.

I'll represent the state's interest. And you play your red flag theory.  Since we are both on this forum offering opposite opinions of your theory, we can post the results for the others.

You are so sheltered.

Did you ever see anyone stand in court not represented?... stand without an attorney, not propria persona, not sui juris? Until you see a man stand in court as an unrepresented man, you are missing a whole lot of freedom.

It would be interesting to see the contract or agreement your attorney would come up with, that we would have to sign to do this thing, with the assurances that I would get paid if I won, and maybe with hold harmless clauses included.

Did anyone ever get a summons to appear for some violation where he was offered the choice of the charge to be presented against him? You are so naive. If you really are a LEO, you are kinda on the lower end of the stick. LOEs don't ask their "victims" to pick the infraction that they are going to be charged with. If they do, they are completely disregarding the justice of the situation. Google "police brutality."

You are so confused..  and its quite apparent you have no clue how the legal system operates.

Nice talk though.  Good luck

Thought i made it quite clear.   Pick your violation.... speeding, stop sign violation, drunk in public, etc...    you do it and I'll take the appropriate action.  Then pull your special list out when the case goes to court.

Well, since you want to play with the court system, and you don't even know what that means, how do you expect to win in court with some kind of a frivolous accusation?

In court, a man has the right to face his accuser. Are you going to be my accuser on the indictment? If so, what harm or damage did I do to you since we agreed ahead of time to do this court thing? Show me the harm or damage, and prove that I did it.

But if the State is my accuser on the indictment, let him take the oath and get on the stand so I can cross examine him. Can the State take the oath and get on the stand? Isn't the State just paperwork? If someone else gets on the stand, I will be requiring that he prove that he is Mr. State of XXXXX. If he isn't and can't, perhaps he is perjuring himself.

So, why go through the trouble of doing your thing? My accuser won't get on the stand, or you will be in trouble for playing with the court system.

No idea what you mean by that.

But what violation/crime do you think can be avoided by getting on your imaginary list?

So, now you want to play with the court, right? Seems that we are posting our results already.

Alright, want something sincere.   Say $100.  Or even $1,000.  I will offer any amount for proof, not just BS video's or websites. 

Or, If you want to put the proof in the pudding, you name the charge/violation you want me to write... I'll give you a location/date.  We can meet there. I'll cite/arrest/issue summons for the law you wish to violate..... and we can play it out in court. 

And we can both post the results in this thread

You sound like the kind of person who would say, regarding the 9/11 Trade Center conspiracy, "If it was an inside job, somebody would have talked." The fact is that many people have talked. The conspiracy goes so deep, that they are not being given the acceptance they deserve.

It's the same with the State Citizen knowledge. The conspiracy against State Citizenship goes deep. So, are you simply ignorant? Or are you part of the conspiracy?

The fact that you offer a "3 gazillion dollar reward," shows that you are not sincere. But if you say that you said that you "will" offer that reward, shows that you are simply trying to mix us up just like government tries to do all the time.

Suppose someone shows you what you are denying exists, and they come to collect on your "reward," if you stand in court as a man, you can claim that the most you can afford to pay is $5 a month. If you haven't thrown yourself into a position of accepting court decisions regarding your monthly payments, you can get off just about scott free. I mean, what's $5 a month?

Just because you never took part of a situation where you have seen the red flags, doesn't mean that others haven't. What generally happens is that the standard LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) asks for clarification when he runs into something like this that he doesn't understand. His superior officer goes up the chain of command asking for advice regarding what to do. It gets to a judge who has the red-flag info, or understands the interpretation of it, and he is the one who says, "hands off in this instance."

If there is an arrest made without clarification of a "red flag," it is ultimately dismissed in court once it has been made known that the accused knows what he is talking about. The LEO is never given clarification of what happened. He/she knows that something doesn't seem kosher, but he never figures it out.

The fact that you haven't seen any of this is the same as all kinds of other LEO who haven't seen it. There are few people who fight it this way. And when one does correctly, the judge or prosecutor drops the case.

Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyOBKiHUbuw .

Benjamin Franklin once said. " there are only two things certain in life,death and taxes."

There are plenty of tax avoidance schemes out there, but most of it would just minimize the taxes you have to pay and it's mostly for the very rich people.
Tax is inevitable. You stop paying taxes when you're dead.

Taxes are the lifeblood of government. Paying taxes is a good thing.
 

Sometimes these so-called "anti-statist" posts amuse me for their controversial claims. Having gone over the previous comments, I surmises that there's a conspiracy page here somewhere which I'm afraid, I'd have to say "pass" to.

I'm pretty sure that the world's best and brightest accountants and lawyers are trying to 'solve' these taxation concerns using whatever means possible. But in truth, many of them will eventually fail and get discovered.

Google tried it, Apple tried it, Amazon tried it - and once it gets discovered, the media publishes the story. If it doesn't get media mileage and public furor, other like-minded smaller business entities try to copy and emulate. Eventually, the sheer number of corporate identities doing the "really effective tax avoidance" scheme, gets found out, because of an idealistic insider, a investigative media reporter or simply because the system failed.

Two things you cannot avoid: death and taxes.

Unless. Maybe. Unless, you are a stateless entity.

But even stateless entities or individuals, need to have a place of residence right? And in making an income through work, business or investment must disclose this information. Even if you somehow manage to not disclose that, when you buy things in certain countries, the act of buying has an automatic de facto "tax" imposed on it, that's already been factored into the price of the good.

Even then! If somehow through sheer perspicacity you manage to avoid all of those, if you live in a failed state such as say, Somalia, taxes come in other coercive forms made through the local militias. In short, as long as your assets and identity are tied to a normal functioning state, it will by means of force, coercion and whatever means at its disposal - find a way to tax you, whether you like it or not.

Ok...   I finally read the link you provided.  All I can say is wow.   That is so full of BS, lies, inaccuracies, and flat out false information.  

So you get put on a "Red Flag" or "Restricted" list that says the cops know you are special?
You wont get taken in on warrants for not paying or responding to traffic citations?
Affidavit of high crimes and treason can get the judge/cop/prosecutor in trouble?

I pray that anyone who believes this load of crap prints out a copy and shows it to the arresting officers. The body cam footage will be priceless entertainment.

I've worked for the government since 1990. Both Federal, and local law enforcement.  And I will offer a 3 gazillion dollar reward to anyone who can provide direction to this Red Flag or Restricted list.

Most of my talk is about people who are not taxpayers.

Voluntary taxation - You have voluntary control. If you are not a taxpayer, you have essentially volunteered to not pay taxes.

Mandatory law - The law of the land is contract law. Becoming a taxpayer is the law of the land for those who have contracted to so be.

Taxation compliance - The IRS can be all over the board regarding how they treat various taxpayers. They are generally hands-off with regard to a knowledgeable person who isn't a taxpayer.

Failure to comply - If you volunteered to be a taxpayer, you had better comply. Not only is there threat of punishment if you don't, but it is unethical to break your contracts and agreements. This is standard knowledge.


The point is the difference between a taxpayer and a person who isn't a taxpayer, even if the non-taxpayer is in the same job as someone else who is a taxpayer.

The U.S. tax code operates on a system of voluntary compliance. Some taxpayers have used the voluntary nature of the tax system to support their claims that they don't have to pay tax at all. However, it isn't the payment of the tax itself that is voluntary. Rather, it's the manner in which people submit their own taxes.

Voluntary taxation

The nature of the voluntary tax system in the U.S. takes the calculation of taxes owed out of the hands of the federal government. You are responsible as an individual taxpayer to calculate what you owe. You're expected to voluntarily comply with the tax code by reporting what you owe to the government and paying the entire amount that you owe under the law.


Mandatory law

The Internal Revenue Code is the law of the land when it comes to determining your tax liability. While you may be able to take a deduction here or there that's in a gray area, and you may be able to argue that you have complied with all applicable tax laws, the taxes that you are legally required to pay are outlined in the IRC. You can find the IRC via the IRS website, which will direct you to the Cornell University Legal Information Institute website.


Taxation compliance

Between the complexity of the tax code and general human nature, the IRS is convinced that U.S. taxpayers, in aggregate, do not pay their fair share of taxes. As of 2006, the IRS estimated that the tax gap between what taxpayers paid and what they owed was $450 billion. This is part of the reason why the IRS conducts audits. Since 100-percent compliance would be nearly impossible to achieve or enforce, the IRS has a goal of 90-percent compliance.

Failure to comply

Although the U.S. tax system is voluntary, failure to comply carries stiff penalties. If you under-report your income or overstate your deductions, you'll face fines and interest charges. If you fail to file a tax return, the IRS will file a substitute return based only on the information it has—meaning you likely won't receive the benefit of any deductions and will end up paying more tax than you should. The IRS also has the power to levy your bank accounts, garnish your wages and place a lien on your property if you don't voluntarily pay what you owe. In serious cases, you may even face criminal charges.

Nobody is saying that, depending on your circumstances, you won't have to fight it in court with the IRS. And I am not suggesting that anyone do this without knowing what he is doing. But...

You only get into any position in the USA by contract, IRS or otherwise. By the US Constitution, contracts are voluntary. If you volunteer in, you can volunteer out. The OP takes you to sites that show you how your parents volunteered you in when they signed for your SSN. But that only lasts until you are of age, except if you maintain the position of volunteering in.

Just to show you that it is voluntary, consider the 13th Amendment:
Why is the 13th Amendment relevant? Because you work on a job for a certain salary, etc. If they take some of it in the form of taxes that you haven't volunteered into, they are taking it in a way that makes it involuntary servitude or slavery. If they say that government is providing you with all kinds of benefits for your tax money, and therefore it isn't involuntary servitude, let them show you an itemized list of the things that you actually got from them, in such a way that anybody can see that you got them. In other words, let them show the receipt you signed for actual, tangible government benefits that you really received.

I mean, when you go to a store and buy some products, they give you an itemized receipt, and they keep a copy. For bigger items, like something that you might pick up at a warehouse, they get your signature on the line when you pick it up. In court, let government provide their copy with your signature for things they gave you, and that you actually received, in return for your money. If they can't show this, they are trying to swindle you out of your property in an involuntary servitude way.

If you haven't done this, how can you say that it doesn't work this way? Others HAVE done it this way, and it works. But don't do it unless you know that you are not a taxpayer, and are in the right frame of mind to show them this fact. And definitely don't do it if you are contracted with them in some way.

Thats not how it works.  Thats not how any of this works

The question is, Can YOU read without assuming?

A1 in the link starts: "Some taxpayers assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary." And that statement is absolutely true. The fact is that you can find taxpayers and non-taxpayers all over the place who assert all different kinds of things.

Since I wasn't talking about taxpayers, your link is probably not applicable. I didn't read it all, because I found the word "taxpayer" throughout, and I didn't find "non-taxpayer" or "not a taxpayer."

When you look into it, you will find that taxpayers are people who have a voluntary contract or voluntary agreement with the IRS. The word "taxpayer" isn't a normal word in the dictionary, except that it might gradually be becoming one. Rather, "taxpayer" is a legalease word. It is legal language, and you don't really know what it means, because judges can change it's meaning any time they want in court, because it is a legal word.

People on a simple job sign a W-4 in a standard way. They are taxpayers because they agreed to be such by voluntarily filling out and signing this form. There are ways around this, and still filing a W-4 in the regular way. One of them is by becoming a State Citizen rather than a U.S. citizen, as spoken about in the OP and other areas of this thread.

But the way to get around it when you ARE a U.S. citizen, is to write "n-a" on all the blanks of the W-4, "Exempt" on line 7, and sign it "non-assumpsit, Your Signature." To make this even stronger is to sign it "non-assumpsit, By: Your Signature, Agent, Man."

Now, if you have other documents that you have signed with the IRS, depending on what they are, you might still be a taxpayer. But if you don't have any other agreements or contracts or signed documents with the IRS, and only the W-4 as I have outlined above, you probably aren't a taxpayer, no matter where you live or work. Btw, if there is pressure on you to fill out a 1040, fill it out the same way: "n-a" on all the lines, and sign it "non-assumpsit, Your Signature."

You do it this way because you are not a taxpayer, and you don't really have any right to be filling out their forms. Just be sure to maintain the fact that you are not a taxpayer in any of your letters or other paperwork with them, and by signing: "non-assumpsit, Your Signature."

The "Frivolous Tax Arguments in General" at https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-a-to-c is absolutely correct. It is for taxpayers, and if you want to be such, pay your taxes. In addition, if you use IRS forms in ways other than I have provided above, you might be making yourself into a taxpayer. If you are a taxpayer, pay your taxes. You have volunteered into the system by certain IRS documents you have signed. Don't break your contracts and agreements.

+1

How about it BADecker?  Can you read?

Don't listen to some crazy militia guys, they will land you in jail.

Don't believe nonsense you might see on the internet.

https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivolous-tax-arguments-section-i-a-to-c

Can't you understand what I'm saying? I wrote it twice already. I repeat, nobody's looking for me, I'm not breaking any law. I'm fully legal.
Haven't you heard of the Bahamas, Monaco, Dubai? There are several countries in the world without any income tax.

There are also countries which do not tax foreign income.

It is very possible and legal not to pay any income tax, and millions of people do.
But i still pay property tax, VAT, tax on petrol, etc... You can't avoid those.

Understand my comment,when you are not getting any attention from the government for violating the laws means you are not making huge amount of money.

Right>

Silly comment. I'm not looking for attention but I'm not hiding. Never underestimate the taxman, he also looks for small fish.

Wasn't aware of this. Quite surprising actually.

All you are doing is expressing that you like to keep your head in a hole in the sand.



Those of us who know what is going on, and would like to see change back to a time where people had real authority over their lives, are learning and using the methods available to us to put government wrongdoers back into the spot they need to be... out of our lives.

If you have an SSN, you are either a US citizen or a permanent resident and you are liable to pay income taxes to the IRS. No ifs or buts.

Nobody cares if you agreed to it or not, whether you like it or not.  

IRS will come down on you like a sledgehammer.  I would not fuck with them if I were you.  They will clean you up real good.  You and all your extended family.  You will forget your name once they are done with you.

You aren't exactly right. There is more to it.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Social Security Administration (SSA) are two different agencies. The reason the IRS issues SS numbers is that these two agencies have an agreement.

When anyone signs an application for a SS card and number (SSN), does the application ever state that anyone owes taxes? How about the IRS? No! The most that it might say on the app is that the SSN should be used for paying income and SS taxes if any are due.

This means that there has to be a different method for determining if taxes are due.

If the method for determining that taxes are due has found that taxes are owed, it is only right and legal and honorable to pay them. There isn't any question about it. If taxes are due, the one who owes should see to it that they are paid.

But that isn't what having a SSN is about. It's not about stating that someone has taxes due. It's about paying into the SSA system IF SS taxes are due.

IRS taxes are a different thing. How does one find out if IRS taxes are due? There is only one way, even though there may be several methods to get to that one way. The person voluntarily admits that he owes taxes. That's the only way.

A W-2 form is hearsay. It has no signature on it. The odds are exceedingly small that an employer will ever step up to the witness box in court and state that he knows for a fact that the amount on the W-2 form is the gross income of any employee. He won't do it because he doesn't know for a fact that he would be right. The most he might do is state that the amount on a particular W-2 form is the amount that he put there.

The point is, the only way for income determination, and taxes owed determination, is by voluntary self-assessment. There is no agreement or contract that taxes are owed until someone signs such an agreement or contract. You do it when you sign the 1040 form or the W-4 form (or other IRS forms). Otherwise you owe no taxes.

If you were ever issued SSN, you have to pay taxes on your passive and active income.

If you don't, you'll end up in jail and lose all your net worth.

Taxation is stealing. In America, if people use the law right, they don't have to pay taxes. The law is against stealing. The only reason why people pay is that they don't know the law, and most government people are trying to hide the law from them.

Means you are not making money in millions that is why you didn't get attention.

Last time I've paid income tax was in 1997, so it can be done... And no country wants to put me in jail.

I would not advice any one to take that part because ,taxes are use to build the economy of any country ,we need roads, hospital these are done with the money we give to government as taxes

---

I believe that is not the best approach to it because paying taxes will increase I infrastructure

---

The federal government can arrest a person that fails to pay is taxes

---

There is a lot if benefits that is associated with tax payment,which can lead to the upgrade of the economy

---

People who try to skip tax payment might end up in jail it ask to pay higher from fine with is quit higher than the previous amount to be paid

^^^ Actually, that is not entirely true.

Part of the meaning is to not supply government people with pay, because you don't really know that they will do a good job. It seems that the non-governmental business sector uses money far more wisely than government does.

Another part is that you get to decide to whom you are going to donate, rather than being force to let government people decide for you. In ages past, hospitals and churches and private organizations took on the job accepting donations and handling what was done with the money.

Another part is that  you aren't required to pay for things that you don't believe are right. Say you are a Democrat. Say,also, that the Republicans are in control in government. You are adamantly against the wars that the Republicans are promoting with your tax dollars. But taxation forces you to pay.

Be honest. Get rid of taxation. Buy what you want from government... or elsewhere if government quality or price isn't good enough. Donate to those who don't have as much money as you do. And don't force others to pay for things that you want.

Use all your earned money for yourself not for the welfare of you country is the literal meaning of not paying taxes to your government.

  what do you mean?

I am also not using the government offering facilities that much but still I am paying for it just because I was born in that land.Unfair though.

If I have one more life,I would like to born where there is no government and taxes,so tht I can enjoy with what I have no need to beg from government.

So, let me ask you. If you don't use transportation (because you walk to work), and you don't have insurance because you never need it, and your kids support you so you don't have a retirement fund, why should somebody (government) steal much of your money to give to other people who want all the stuff you don't want?

Somebody pays for stuff. Why not the people who use it? Then you wouldn't have to support a bunch of bureaucrats for doing the office work to regulate all the taxes.

If the average grocery store customer pays $300 a month for groceries, but you only pay for $150 for groceries, should you really all pay $300 just so that somebody else can get $400 worth? Wouldn't you rather buy what you want, pay for it, and let the other people handle their affairs?

Get your hand out of my pocket. Buy your own transportation, insurance, retirement fund, library usage time, hospitalization, etc., and get your hand out of my pocket. Nobody says you can't go and donate your money wherever you want. But don't steal mine.

Don't use banks for transactions.

If chance for doing personal transaction always go with it so it won't be recorded anywhere.

Learn about tax avoiding and evading.

If you want to pay no taxes then you will have to pay for everything. Transportation, insurance, retirement funds etc.
A system that doesn't require you to pay taxes is based on the fact that no good or service is on the government's hands. Something that leads to economic inefficiencies, thus it is catastrophic for any state.

But Spendy is right... if you want to be a US citizen, and live in the US. Or almost right.

The point of this thread is being a State Citizen, receiving all the benefits of US citizenship, but not being a US citizen, and still living in America. It's perfectly legal to do. And it works like I have said. All the States (that have income tax) base their income tax on Federal IRS forms. A person who is a State Citizen is not a US citizen necessarily. If he is not a US citizen, but IS a State Citizen, has no filing or paying requirements of US citizens.

People who are from other countries outside the USA, might have difficulty obtaining State Citizen status. But they might not. State Citizen non-US citizens are protect by State autonomy, from US requirements in many things. After all, the US gave the States their autonomy. And the 10th Amendment upholds this autonomy, even though the States don't always exercise every aspect of the autonomy that they have.

So, if you are not a US citizen, but have accepted US reporting and paying status (green card), you might be required to to file and pay. But if you get State Citizenship status, you aren't required to file or pay, even though you live in the USA.

I'm not American, but I know there's another way. You may legally avoid US tax, if you're a US citizen permanently living outside the US, and if you earn less than $100,000 per year.

I get it. You mean nothing.     

I mean all the crap you are spouting.

It's as simple as this. You don't pay taxes to other countries that you are not a citizen of. Most countries make statements that their land is their country. But the USA essentially has basic law that shows that if you are a man/woman, you don't have to be part of the USA country, even if you live on the land that the USA determines to control.

Who knows maybe your country could turn into most corrupted country in the next year itself if everyone got the same mindset as yours.

There is corruption, yes, but it, if my mind doesn’t fail me, doesn’t affect citizens as much as it does in some third world countries.

If you didn't mistake then the word corruption won't exist now.

What about not earning income as a US citizen?     

Or did you mean everything previous in this thread?

The only way to be a US citizen and not pay federal income taxes is to become a resident of the US territory, Puerto Rico.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16385658/puerto-rico-taxes-hurricane

Everything in this thread to the contrary is a lie.

Why not pay taxes? After all, they often go to good deeds, to health care, the environment, etc. Or am I mistaken somewhere?

Hey, I've been doing that for more than 20 years, so I know how it works.

I'm not paying any income tax, but I'm paying my property taxes, last year I've even paid VAT on a car I had just imported to a country where I'm not living. It's stupid, but there's no way I could have it registered to my name otherwise...

You are absolutely right in the fact that you pay taxes one way or another. Some jobs are very taxing on your strength. And, even if you don't pay IRS taxes directly, some of the money interaction you do with others winds up in the pockets of the IRS. So, yes. Taxation will always happen in some form.

In the USA, it is advisable to not become a non-citizen. There are many perks for a State Citizen. One of the perks is that IRS law is not a thing that happens to you directly. And State taxes is another.

Why does the IRS not tax a State Citizen? Because the State, having been given autonomy with its statehood, is like a different country. As long as you do not sign up with the Federal Government for something where you sign directly with them, IRS taxes don't apply... just like a China citizen doesn't pay IRS taxes if he doesn't sign up with the USA for something from the USA directly.

And the reason why a State Citizen doesn't pay State income taxes is, all the States base their income taxes on the Federal. If you don't have any IRS taxes, you can't have any State taxes... nothing to base it on.

Even as a non-citizen, most countries withhold taxes on passive earnings form your financial instruments in that country.

There are some countries where you pay no tax on dividends or capital gains but for the most part, if you have substantial assets in stock markets around the world, you'll be paying taxes to the countries where those securities domicile.

If you a legal resident of a country, you are liable for property and income taxes, in addition to any value-added taxes on goods and services, duties, license fees etc.

There are several ideas here, as I am very experienced with these questions, I can give some much needed explanations.

1/ It's absolutely impossible to stop paying tax.

You sure can avoid paying income tax, but if you drive a car and buy gas, sleep at an hotel or buy a sugary drink, you will pay some tax doing any of those acts.

2/ You can get out of government control.

I know because I've done it. The last time I've paid income tax was in 1997, and nowadays, I don't even bother filling a single tax form. I wouldn't not even know in what country I should fill one as I'm traveling all the time. I'm writing this from Chisinau, Moldova. I've arrived in this country yesterday, and I'm leaving next week. But not paying income tax is only one side of the question, I've stopped being a citizen. I don't vote. I couldn't even register to vote as I don't have a fixed address in the country which grants me a passport.

That's the point, you must stop being a citizen.

Snopes will tell you that it's a joke that doctors kill many times more people than guns. Snopes is fake news sometimes. This means that you can't trust them ever. Here is one of the statistics they say is a joke:
Search DuckDuckGo - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gun+hospital+death+compare&t=h_&ia=web to see what others have to say.

So, why would anyone think that taxation is just at all? Buy what you need from Government. If they can't compete with private sector business, stick them in their own little corner, and let them keep their hands out of our pockets.

Why pick a ruler? Pick the 12-person jury of your common, neighborhood friends. If you can't trust them, why would you think that you can trust a ruler?

That is the way it is in the USA and several other countries. When you go to court, you need to ask your questions, claim your claims, make your points, in the right way. And if you make your points ahead of time by letter to the right IRS people, the IRS will back off before court, if you show them you know what you are doing.

Only a socialist will blame people for starving state institutions and collapsing the economy by evading taxes. A socialist who doesn't know that taxes don't only come from the people's income. I have always said that there are just and unjust taxes and we not only have the right, but an obligation to argue and fight unjust taxation. Making you think that your income tax makes the fire dept. and the hospitals going is an old story told by government officials.

If there is a thief in your house,who keep stealing money from all the corners but you are awake and letting that all the money to be stolen?

Or try to do something against him for stopping and killing him?

We have the power to pick one who is going to rule so we can decide who is going to be the good and evil.

^^^ This is the sign of a good person. If it is karma, or if it is something else, a person who does good and wants to do good is a good person.

We stop paying taxes because they are being used to do all kinds evil by evil people, but we only want to do good.

TheTinyDot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

I believe karma is a bitch,if you fuck once it will keep fucking you again and again so I just want to be good and good for anyone.

why do you propose geographic discrimination and hatred?

if us stops free trade agreements also with its allies it will simply be dropped and world will appoint a new leader for example russia and gives a fuck about us and us dollar.

Now, I know that you aren't that dumb, to think that having a SSN automatically tells the IRS all your income. But the point isn't what the IRS thinks it knows. The point is who the IRS is.

When the IRS attacks someone to bring them to court, they always (mostly by far) put THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. Jon Doe on the indictment. Jon has the right to face his accuser in court. It is the most  basic of court rights... face his accuser to cross examine him under oath. So, how does anyone get THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA to take the oath and get on the stand?

A second point is the US citizen point. What you do is get a passport that shows that you are a State Citizen, not a US citizen. This means that you are not under direct obligation for taxes to the IRS, because the IRS is Federal, and you are State. Since all the States base their income taxes on Federal returns, and you don't have a Federal return because it is not mandatory for State Citizens, you don't have any State taxes.

No matter how much info the IRS gets on your income, there isn't any IRS agent that follows you around and sleeps with you so that they can record your earnings. Even if they got past the point of your accuser, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, getting on the stand, no IRS agent will state under oath that he knows for a fact that you made such and such income. They don't know. And they won't purger themselves. And it is your private info so they can't require you VOLUNTEER it.

The point is, you are not liable to pay income taxes unless you sign some paperwork that makes you liable. The W-4 stuff I talked about previously shows that you don't have a reporting agreement with them. If you don't have a reporting agreement with them, you don't have to file tax returns.

I know. I have used it, and it works. So, it's not nonsense. Rather, you enjoy seeing others being slaves. So you don't like it when people become free.

If you have an SSN, IRS knows about all your earnings both active and passive, anywhere in the world.

All US citizens are required to provide their SSNs when they open bank accounts anywhere on this planet.

IRS gets annual reports of your passive earnings, your account balances, etc.  You are liable to pay taxes and will be prosecuted if you don't report your income and they catch you.

Sooner or later.  No matter what you say and do.  Please stop this nonsense.

Actually, it is the stupidity of those who buy foreign cars that are doing the damage. In America, we don't need foreign cars. We can make our own stuff just as good. If Government had not been populated by one-worlders, we would have had, say, 500% import taxes on imports long ago. Then we would have to make our own goods, because we couldn't afford foreign goods. Jobs would come back. We could be strong because there would be no need for income taxes when Government is getting plenty of money from import taxes.

Somebody said that we need rare earth metals from China. But now we are finding out that we can make our electronics without them. We can do it all here. We don't need the world. The world needs us.

There isn't any hiding about it.

There are two kinds of people:
1. People who want to be left alone;
2. People who won't leave them alone.

Simple, honest people want to do their thing without harming anyone. The others want to steal as much property that they can get from everyone. The government can be used by anyone.

The property stealers think that becoming government officials gives them strength to take property from others. They don't realize that if they push the peaceful people hard enough, the peaceful people will use the same government against the government officials. And it will go much harder for crooked government officials, because they have taken the oath of office wherein they state that they will be good guys.

IRS has always said that taxes are voluntary. And they are. I have just shown you how to stick it to IRS officials who want to steal your money property, when they mess with you because you volunteer out. If you don't like volunteering out, don't do it. But if you want that freedom to NOT volunteer out, but to remain in, you have to give the freedom to others to volunteer out if they want.

i want to see those idiots who first damage state scientific institutions and then starve to death when the economy collapses because of their stupidity, unfortunately they will then migrate to societies where the people werent that stupid, but this is another proof that socialism is trash,

Possibly we can hide ourselves from getting into the eyes of government but at some point we will get caught and will be getting an image like most wanted criminal so most people will afraid of this and paying taxes to the governments even without any ask from the officials.

I don't encourage anyone to violate the laws of government but we are living among the most corrupted people so its not a big sin to evade taxes personally but still I don't do due to the fear of getting a badge like criminal if I get caught.

The thing is, that nobody who doesn't pay taxes is evading, except when he says he is evading.

Anybody in government or outside of it can accuse anyone of evading. But that doesn't mean they are evading. They are only evading when they agree to it in court. Reasons why they might agree include that some judge convinced them, or a plea agreement, or they are ignorant of court procedures, or a jury convicts them, and others. But one of the things the paperwork in the OP sites shows them is how to aim for getting out of it all right from the start.

The initial thing to do is to sign every document: all rights reserved, non-assumpsit, By: Signature, Agent. Do this one, simple thing, and watch how fast they change their tone with you. Throw in your claim to face your accuser, and watch their prosecutor throw out the complaint against you.

There wasn't any evading until you agree that there was. Your freedom allows you to agree, but to also disagree.

Evading tax is illegal so don't do it but actually we can avoid taxes by investing on the right thing which makes the investor more rich and rich whereas the salaried person give some part as tax to the governments.Doing business and registering expenses is one of the best and simple way to avoid taxes.

Actually, you are wrong. And here's why.

All of the reporting is based on voluntary dissemination of the amount of earnings. If you don't want to volunteer your private info, nobody knows what your gross income is, because they don't know how many under-the-table jobs you did.

If they come after you, take them to court in a claim that states that you would voluntarily pay anyone who you harmed. No IRS agent will testify that you harmed him. But even before that, on any indictment against you, it will always be THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. you. Standard court law is that you get to face your accuser and cross examine him. When will THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ever take the oath, get on the stand, and testify.

If someone gets on the stand, the first thing you ask him is, are you THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If he says "yes," get him to show his ID to prove it... maybe drivers license. But even if he does prove he is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, how have you harmed him? Let him show the harm or damage you did to him so you can pay him what you owe him. Even California has laws on the books that state that there has to be real damage, not some fake damage like you hurt his feelings. And get him to show and prove the exact amount. He can't.

How do I know this works? Because I tried to do it. But they wouldn't let me. They simply disappeared when I tried it. Now, I could go after them and sue them. But... we'll see.

LOL. Even if you are not a US citizen living in the US, you are subject to withholding taxes, property taxes, etc.

Give up your US citizenship, see what happens.  You will be an outlaw in no time.  No money, no SSN, no job, and might be picked up by ICE, LOL.

You guys just drink too much moonshine, LOL.

But not necessarily.

If you don't have a contract with government stating that you are going to pay taxes, and you file a formal court claim against anyone in government who is messing with your property, you can stave off government intruders. Physical property seizure will be a return of far greater $amounts when you win in court, if you do it the common law, man-to-man way.

Don't sell your property. Rather, place it in trust with yourself as the trustee. If you find a prospective buyer, make him the successor trustee, in line to take over if you resign from your trusteeship. When he has paid you, resign. No sale... the same trust still owns the property. No sales tax, because no sale. If the government is picky, have him place his money in trust, and make you the successor trustee. When he resigns, you become the trustee of the money trust.

All perfectly legal and lawful, upheld by the freedom to contract expressed by the US Constitution and courts, and upheld by all State Constitutions... because they all have agreed to uphold the US Constitution.

Not only is this legal, it's also lawful. It has to do with contract law. Living in your definition of the USA doesn't have anything to do with it. The USA is what upholds what I have written, and many people are doing it all the time, with more learning how.

People are finding that, if they were born in a State, that they are not really US citizens... although the US accepts them readily. So, they are changing their status on paper to State citizen through things like this - http://coppermoonshinestills.com/id71.html.

What happens when you become a State citizen and not a US citizen, with regard to income taxes? You don't have to file with the IRS... except to tell them that you are not making any agreements with them. All State taxes are based on IRS returns. No IRS return = no State return, either. Totally legal and lawful.

If you are the kind of person who wants to pay, great! Pay. But why do you want to take my freedom to NOT pay away from me? You are a slave maker, at least in spirit. And you want to make slaves of anybody who is free, especially if they use the law to be free.

At best you are a hypocrite. At worst you are a complete controller/slave-maker. That's way more socialistic and communistic than exercising your freedom.

If you own property (including an apartment/condo) and don't pay property taxes, eventually the government will just seize your property and sell it to recover taxes (and a shit load of fees) owed.  I don't think there's any way around that.

Also, if you sell it with owed taxes, the government will get paid before you do.

Even if it were legal you should not be allowed to do this.

People who do not want to pay taxes in the USA should not be allowed to live permanently in the US, own any property, be a citizen, etc.

You don't want to pay taxes? Fine, you will be stripped of the US citizenship, or Green Card, your property, the bank accounts will be seized without compensation and you can immigrate to any country that will take you.

Either you are part of that society or you are not.  Being part of that society means you have to contribute to it.

Selfish leeches should be removed, or incarcerated IMHO.

All you tax "resisters" will be put in jail and your property will be seized, one way or another.  Only complete morons can follow your logic.

"I don't have to pay taxes but I will drive on public roads, drink water from public aquifers, send my kids to public schools, get my government IDs or other services, register my real property, etc."

Are you a complete moron, or you are just pretending to be one?

That is a very socialist/communist way of thinking.  I want stuff but I don't want to pay for it.

Right! If you file your W-4 with your employer, n-a (non-assumpsit) on all the lines except the "EXEMPT" line, where you write EXEMPT, and sign it non-assumpsit, By: Your Signature, Agent, you can sue your employer if he withholds.

"Non-assumpsit" means "no-contract" to the IRS. They will honor it if you don't have some other contracts with them, because taxes are voluntary by contract or agreement. Your employer might not honor it, however, because he is basically ignorant about the voluntary nature of income taxes.

It's actually not illegal to not pay your taxes in the USA.  You can't be arrested for refusing to pay.

Lying on your taxes is a different story.

Why are people been arrested because they refuse to pay tax in the USA? In every country, people that have no such of income and has no home or any taxable assets are completely exempted from tax.
 The recommendations op is given will definitely going to land someone that try to do that in prison. Paying of tax is good if the governments and tax officers are not embezzled the money and the proceed from tax are used to build social amenities.

As long as you don't own a home, plan on buying a home, own a business, are employed by a business, or plan on being employed by a business for more than a few months, then yeah, US taxes are completely voluntary!

I'm in the UK. Taxes here are only voluntary if you are a citizen of the City of London.

This is the exact point. In the USA, income taxes are legally voluntary. Have you never see the paperwork that the IRS published in the past that said your taxes are voluntary?

If you volunteer in, you can volunteer out. But you can't even tie your shoe laces if you don't know how. So, learn how to volunteer out if you want. Otherwise, your taxes are voluntary. And voluntary means they are essentially gifts from you.

I believe that it is better to follow the laws of your country, and to pay taxes, even if you disagree with the use they make of the money. This doesn't prevent you from arranging your affairs to reduce your tax liabilities, and to follow a lifestyle that provides you with the greatest freedom. This is why I have become a digital nomad, but I don't try to fight the system, I just try to take advantage of it wherever possible.

Haha i saw those videos, it is funny how people believe everything they see on the internet, and when they try that thing in the real  life, they get owned:D

Only way to avoid paying taxes all together  is if you go to the jungle, cut yourself completely from society and try to be self-sufficient. And maybe , just maybe you might get away with it.

There are some great youtube compilations of these idiots trying to sell all those nonsensical arguments to cops and judges.

search "sovereign citizens getting owned" and enjoy.

 

Of course it doesn't work. Magic doesn't just happen because you have some paperwork, or because you watched some Youtube videos, or because you listened to some law guru. But, when you make things happen, they do.

Generally the judge isn't going to get up, call in the local newspaper or TV guy, and say, "This guy won. We lost." There are many records of wins with this stuff, often because the judge helped somebody out a little with the guy's own paperwork.

When a prosecutor drops the charges and the case, most people don't know how to go after reimbursement. And if the case is dropped, it doesn't getrwritten up in court records with enough detail to tell what happened or why. Paperwork like this is giving people a winning edge all over the place.



EDIT: Look through the instructions for filling out the paperwork. When you sign the paperwork, you sign it: By: Your Signature, Agent. Under Laws of agency, you aren't responsible for what the principal does. So, whoever that principal is that is named in the paperwork, you get the paperwork done, you get your status, but you aren't responsible, except if you harm someone.

This is an amazing guide if you want to get arrested, put in front of a judge and told that you have to do whatever they tell you because being a state citizen isn't going to work in the least. I've seen more and more videos of people doing this, but it still doesn't work.

This is some old BS that people try to cite from one of the original documents relating to the formation of the US. So just don't try this or you're going to get arrested.

Become a State Citizen, and back it up with man-to-man common law.

BEAT THE LAW | DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY | STATE CITIZEN PASSPORT - http://coppermoonshinestills.com/id71.html.

Learn more - http://www.abodia.com/.

Even more - http://jurorinlaw.com/talkshoe/klentz/.