How whales convert their crypto to INR!

vino.gcs

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Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

Very interesting discussion, I am following with interest
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pawanjain

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Quote from: kentrolla on May 19, 2024, 05:26:08 AM

Quote from: Bureau on May 18, 2024, 11:23:11 PM

Quote from: TheUltraElite on May 18, 2024, 11:17:53 PM

Hawala system, obviously illegal in India under PML Act but it runs well and speculations galore, it is commonly used by drug mafias, underworld bosses to run their money.

Whether they use bitcoin, possible but they dont likely use the exchanges that we use. OTC traders exist in different difficult to reach sections of the internet and they are helping such users.

Most of them have hired CAs that are well versed with all these "cat and mouse" chase methods.

Hawala system is still active in India and most friendly country for doing hawala is UAE and UK. But, I doubt a whale will be interested in using this system. As you said they have CAs to take care of the tax I still doubt they will be interested in fiat. Unless they are using the crypto market to convert black to white.

I think Hwala system is the only way of converting crypto into INR but lately there has been so many crackdowns and we are made to believe it's really difficult to do hawala but I feel it's to deceive us and I have heard from people who were once involved in this activity that the raids are pre-planned just like custom catching gold smuggling as we never heard about those who are caught in these activities after few months because they are silently released. Hawala is still very much active and also there are other ways like setting up dubious service based organisation and getting paid for service which never took place. Here the whales will be both client and service provider.

The hawala system is still active and I am sure a lot of people would be using it regularly for crypto related transactions.
Although it's a convenient way for P2P transaction but it is still very risky as it is operated very secretively.
Just imagine you get cash worth 20 lakhs, you can't count it in front of them and so you go to a secluded place or your house and then find out that the cash is fake.
You go back to the Hawala but they don't accept your fake notes. You can't go to the police since it's not legal.
What would you do in such a case ? This is something I have been wondering for a while.
This is why Hawala should be avoided as it is very risky.

Bitcoin Smith

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Quote from: TigerMart on May 21, 2024, 08:11:24 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

Such similarity. Much WoW! Roll Eyes

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoIndia/comments/1cjzw72/how_do_whales_convert_it_to_fiat_indian_whales/

I don't understand what you are trying to imply. But here is that thread from reddit.

How do they do it? isn't what I wrote in the first post or the one that you quoted.

TigerMart

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Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

Such similarity. Much WoW! Roll Eyes

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoIndia/comments/1cjzw72/how_do_whales_convert_it_to_fiat_indian_whales/

pakhitheboss

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Quote from: kentrolla on May 19, 2024, 05:26:08 AM

Quote from: Bureau on May 18, 2024, 11:23:11 PM

Quote from: TheUltraElite on May 18, 2024, 11:17:53 PM

Hawala system, obviously illegal in India under PML Act but it runs well and speculations galore, it is commonly used by drug mafias, underworld bosses to run their money.

Whether they use bitcoin, possible but they dont likely use the exchanges that we use. OTC traders exist in different difficult to reach sections of the internet and they are helping such users.

Most of them have hired CAs that are well versed with all these "cat and mouse" chase methods.

Hawala system is still active in India and most friendly country for doing hawala is UAE and UK. But, I doubt a whale will be interested in using this system. As you said they have CAs to take care of the tax I still doubt they will be interested in fiat. Unless they are using the crypto market to convert black to white.

I think Hwala system is the only way of converting crypto into INR but lately there has been so many crackdowns and we are made to believe it's really difficult to do hawala but I feel it's to deceive us and I have heard from people who were once involved in this activity that the raids are pre-planned just like custom catching gold smuggling as we never heard about those who are caught in these activities after few months because they are silently released. Hawala is still very much active and also there are other ways like setting up dubious service based organisation and getting paid for service which never took place. Here the whales will be both client and service provider.

If and only if the motive is to convert black money to white then apart from Havala their are other options like buing gold/sovereign bonds from another country or buying items such as a paintings which never sees depreciation. They can be easily brought to India by paying a small duty fee and can be easily sold to anyone from the elite class.

As per my knowledge Havala is not that easy and has high risk after 2014. There was a time when workers from middle East use this method to save money from the tax man. It was one of the favourite way for corrupt officers and ministers to invest in property abroad.

kentrolla

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Quote from: Bureau on May 18, 2024, 11:23:11 PM

Quote from: TheUltraElite on May 18, 2024, 11:17:53 PM

Hawala system, obviously illegal in India under PML Act but it runs well and speculations galore, it is commonly used by drug mafias, underworld bosses to run their money.

Whether they use bitcoin, possible but they dont likely use the exchanges that we use. OTC traders exist in different difficult to reach sections of the internet and they are helping such users.

Most of them have hired CAs that are well versed with all these "cat and mouse" chase methods.

Hawala system is still active in India and most friendly country for doing hawala is UAE and UK. But, I doubt a whale will be interested in using this system. As you said they have CAs to take care of the tax I still doubt they will be interested in fiat. Unless they are using the crypto market to convert black to white.

I think Hwala system is the only way of converting crypto into INR but lately there has been so many crackdowns and we are made to believe it's really difficult to do hawala but I feel it's to deceive us and I have heard from people who were once involved in this activity that the raids are pre-planned just like custom catching gold smuggling as we never heard about those who are caught in these activities after few months because they are silently released. Hawala is still very much active and also there are other ways like setting up dubious service based organisation and getting paid for service which never took place. Here the whales will be both client and service provider.

Bureau

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on May 18, 2024, 11:17:53 PM

Hawala system, obviously illegal in India under PML Act but it runs well and speculations galore, it is commonly used by drug mafias, underworld bosses to run their money.

Whether they use bitcoin, possible but they dont likely use the exchanges that we use. OTC traders exist in different difficult to reach sections of the internet and they are helping such users.

Most of them have hired CAs that are well versed with all these "cat and mouse" chase methods.

Hawala system is still active in India and most friendly country for doing hawala is UAE and UK. But, I doubt a whale will be interested in using this system. As you said they have CAs to take care of the tax I still doubt they will be interested in fiat. Unless they are using the crypto market to convert black to white.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Hawala system, obviously illegal in India under PML Act but it runs well and speculations galore, it is commonly used by drug mafias, underworld bosses to run their money.

Whether they use bitcoin, possible but they dont likely use the exchanges that we use. OTC traders exist in different difficult to reach sections of the internet and they are helping such users.

Most of them have hired CAs that are well versed with all these "cat and mouse" chase methods.

Bureau

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Activity: 490

Merit: 279

Quote from: avikz on May 09, 2024, 12:42:31 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

No Whales would want enforcement directorate to knock on the door. So even if the Wales are converting to fiat, they do not convert big amounts.

As per the PMLA act, if an account receives more than 10 lakh in one go, that transaction needs to be notified to the income tax and enforcement directorate by the banks. So Whales usually converts less than 10 lakhs in one go.

They can surely use the legal route by paying 30% taxes. But I don't think anyone is actually following the same.

Rich people never pay taxes and neither do poor in India. A whale is an individual or an institution which is backed by a team. That team is hired to make their financial life easier and they will find alternative options to avoid taxes or to reduce taxes. In crypto world there is nothing like reduce tax but there is a concept of using shell companies that can help them park their funds in tax heavens.

kentrolla

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Even I don't have an answer for this but there is no way whales are paying 30% as tax and there are numerous ways they may cashout or convert to INR, for example they may transfer it to hub of black money Dubai and then from their they may withdraw in any local account and do hawala to India as there are lot of loopholes which they may utilize but paying 30% is never an option.

avikz

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Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

No Whales would want enforcement directorate to knock on the door. So even if the Wales are converting to fiat, they do not convert big amounts.

As per the PMLA act, if an account receives more than 10 lakh in one go, that transaction needs to be notified to the income tax and enforcement directorate by the banks. So Whales usually converts less than 10 lakhs in one go.

They can surely use the legal route by paying 30% taxes. But I don't think anyone is actually following the same.

Bitcoin Smith

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on May 09, 2024, 07:41:39 AM

@Bitcoin Smith, whales never convert crypto to INR. A whale can be considered as an institutional investor or a private investor whose main objective is to gain high profit through market manipulation or short selling. A whale is not like a retail investor who will need money after a certain amount of trade. They invest with certain goals and unless they achieve it they keep funds on the exchange as explained by @Bureau.

I do accept whales rarely convert their crypto to fiat but the point of discussion is to find how they will do when they want to and dodge paying the taxes. There are certain period even I noticed it by myself where trade books on wazirx filled with 100s of bitcoin but that's all probably before that 30% tax rate was implemented.

pakhitheboss

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@Bitcoin Smith, whales never convert crypto to INR. A whale can be considered as an institutional investor or a private investor whose main objective is to gain high profit through market manipulation or short selling. A whale is not like a retail investor who will need money after a certain amount of trade. They invest with certain goals and unless they achieve it they keep funds on the exchange as explained by @Bureau.

Do remember a whale is not a guy who is alone as he will have employees working under him to look into all aspects. They generally don't convert crypto to fiat whereas they use NFT, STO, and other options to hold on to their profits. That is why the NFT market never follows the crypto market which has been proven multiple times, if you do not agree then do a Google search.

Bureau

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Quote from: Bitcoin Smith on May 09, 2024, 02:19:16 AM

I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

First of all a whale will never convert Bitcoin to fiat. If they do sell thier Bitcoin then they will convert it into stablecoins. They will never use local exchanges for conversion or for trading as the volumes are far lesser than international exchanges. If you are not aware then let me inform you that whales never trade as retail investors do. They will use OTC service provide by a big International exchange. If you do a Google search you will find Binance provide OTC service. Whales are very smart and do know the loopholes that can be used to stay away from tax. They invest in the market for long term gain which can be typically 10 years time.

Bitcoin Smith

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I have this question for very long time especially when I see max trading limit on exchange goes even upto crores which means potentially people can convert how much amount they have in BTC to INR but there's no way someone who is selling huge amount is going to pay 30% tax and even 1% TDS seems too much considering the value in INR.

So what are the possible alternatives you think they convert BTC to INR if they wanted to.

Mostly all I see is going to Dubai set up a company and then transfer funds to INR but it's really feasible or how do you think they convert.

Let's speculate and bring in all your imagination guys. Grin

Topic: How whales convert their crypto to INR! (Read 160 times)