Topic: How would a world with BTC as reserve currency look like? (Read 3814 times)
Now the rise of Bitcoin serves the interests of a small but rapidly growing industry which offers everyone the hardware, specially "ground" under the high performance computing and allows you to "print" a new coin. So, in addition to pure speculators, the rising cost of "friend" is interested, this category of businessmen.However, it is necessary now to start thinking about what will happen when the dust settles, and earned on the provision of digital Klondike it all off to count the profits. The opened pattern can be very, very trivial – and not the fact that she would much like to state institutions, accustomed to consider themselves the exclusive guarantors of monetary circulation.In the XIX century there were a good joke: "gold fevers" most of the money earned by the sellers of tools for miners.
Those are legit concerns, even tho i've read its not 51%, you would need more than it actually. We've had 51% scenareos before and nothing happened. My main concern is the transaction volume being too hardcore for the 1MB block size.
The block size is not set in stone. It can be modified if and when the need arises.
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.
The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.
If these pitfalls were escaped, I suspect the exchange rate would become significantly more stable.
Thoughts?
Big circulation and transfer speed is the fundamental, second to countries to recognize the value of application of the currency
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.
The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.
Thoughts?
At first glance it seems to me that a constant hash rate race between states would mean millions and billions of money pretty much down the drain. Let's look at what is happening right now. More and more powerful mining equipment is being built, though it would be fair to ask, is there a purpose in this race that wouldn't be met with just ordinary computers but for needless competition?
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.
The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.
If these pitfalls were escaped, I suspect the exchange rate would become significantly more stable.
Thoughts?
This change would be a slow process.
The switch would probably happen incrementally, from state to state or country to country over a period of years.
The entire world would not accept this change overnight.
Same thing happened with the introduction of dollars when they began phasing out using gold as a day to day currency.
This would affect every country's economy as they would have to overhaul entire monetary systems that have been in place for decades.
The country that would probably be most affected would be the USA because they would no longer be able to print money out of thin air.
How would the USA operate their "black budget" when there is only transparency in all transactions?
These are very interesting questions.
The switch would probably happen incrementally, from state to state or country to country over a period of years.
The entire world would not accept this change overnight.
Same thing happened with the introduction of dollars when they began phasing out using gold as a day to day currency.
This would affect every country's economy as they would have to overhaul entire monetary systems that have been in place for decades.
The country that would probably be most affected would be the USA because they would no longer be able to print money out of thin air.
How would the USA operate their "black budget" when there is only transparency in all transactions?
These are very interesting questions.
You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?
You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.
I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a 20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering
.So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system
You can look through my posts to get an idea (where I live). So you are obviously looking for a new bitcoin bubble to unfold, though it may never happen again (like gold may not reach 1900$ per ounce in the foreseeable future)... I'm curious, how many bitcoins you have, and at what price you bought them?
Russia?
Man i start to like the BRICS more and more, your banking system is so much better then. Also the financial responsibility is much higher there, and the gold backing etc etc.
Maybe its because of my resentment of the western financial system that bought be into bitcoin but, still this doesnt mean that the eastern banking system is perfect, far from it.
See the western system is just totally rotten, no doubt about it, but i still think that the Bitcoin is a much more efficient one than the BRICS payment system aswell, since its costlesness. Now the great would be if the mainstream system would merge with Bitcoin and provide interconnected services.
I would like a bank to have a service where you could buy and sell bitcoins directly from my checking account, until I see that i`ll remain skeptical.
Once the banking system decides to implement that, then i`ll regain my respect for them, until then, i`ll be watching it developing.
I own ~3 BTC bought none, i earned them and sold a few stuff
You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?
You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.
I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a 20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering
.So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system
You can look through my posts to get an idea (where I live). So you are obviously looking for a new bitcoin bubble to unfold, though it may never happen again (like gold may not reach 1900$ per ounce in the foreseeable future)... I'm curious, how many bitcoins you have, and at what price you bought them?
You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?
You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.
I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a 20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering
.So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system
What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...
Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could
Man you are totally offtopic. Those 7 points that i emphasized there (exactly for the purpose of people understanding it, but looks like they dont) is exactly valid, and if you look around the financial sector for other new ventures from the post .com era you see that all of them needed between 5-12 years to reach mainstream. Bitcoin is halfway through and its doing a pretty good job so far, so i dont understand whats your problem about that.
I was talking about wire transfer, it takes 4 days to clear with all those stupid AML regulations, a grandma sends 15$ for his grandson in another contry and shes a suspect for terrorism is pretty ridiculous, yes she also has to wait 4 days.
A credit/debit card is not a money transmitter, it's more like a shopping coupon/token, because you can only purchase from preselected vendors (approved by our beloved ruling class), and you can't transmit money p2p with it. Also a card is directly bound to the owner, and can't be transferred, while a bitcoin address can.
So in this perspective, you have to go through like days of AML verification processes, (just look how many identity verification exchanges need for you to buy bitcoin from them), and it still takes 4 days to clear it's pretty silly.
Not to forget that they also charge 5% comissions. for card shopping and more for wire transfer.
On the other hand, you can "open a bitcoin account" in 2 seconds (depending how fast your processor generates the address), send money in 10 minutes, and you can also sell your bitcoin address, however it has no particular reason to do it.
Don't you see the crucial difference between the traditional financial system and bitcoin or are you just playing the ignorance?
You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read your own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back (cash-back) for shopping...
I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards
What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...
Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could
Man you are totally offtopic. Those 7 points that i emphasized there (exactly for the purpose of people understanding it, but looks like they dont) is exactly valid, and if you look around the financial sector for other new ventures from the post .com era you see that all of them needed between 5-12 years to reach mainstream. Bitcoin is halfway through and its doing a pretty good job so far, so i dont understand whats your problem about that.
I was talking about wire transfer, it takes 4 days to clear with all those stupid AML regulations, a grandma sends 15$ for his grandson in another contry and shes a suspect for terrorism is pretty ridiculous, yes she also has to wait 4 days.
A credit/debit card is not a money transmitter, it's more like a shopping coupon/token, because you can only purchase from preselected vendors (approved by our beloved ruling class), and you can't transmit money p2p with it. Also a card is directly bound to the owner, and can't be transferred, while a bitcoin address can.
So in this perspective, you have to go through like days of AML verification processes, (just look how many identity verification exchanges need for you to buy bitcoin from them), and it still takes 4 days to clear it's pretty silly.
Not to forget that they also charge 5% comissions. for card shopping and more for wire transfer.
On the other hand, you can "open a bitcoin account" in 2 seconds (depending how fast your processor generates the address), send money in 10 minutes, and you can also sell your bitcoin address, however it has no particular reason to do it.
Don't you see the crucial difference between the traditional financial system and bitcoin or are you just playing the ignorance?
First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?
I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry
Ok i highly suggest you to watch this video about Bitcoin's growth curve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI
Also every single mass mania had atleast a 7 year unfolding period: facebook founded in 2003 it needed until 2007-2008 to become mainstream...
And so on, besides facebook and others had massive money backing them while bitcoin is only founded by the people, as i pointed out wallstreet is not interested in it yet, plus banks have other agendas trying to discredit it so that their own ponzi finance can become in monopoly.
Bitcoin is just challenging the global ponzi scheme, and if the nasty regulators dont interfere, it will eventually replace it.
Even if you just look at the money processing aspect, its far more superior than western union, credit cards and other BS. Instead of waiting 4 days for a transaction you wait 10 minutes....
The only, and i emphasize the only thing holding bitcoin back is the lack of media attention + progaganda trying to demonize it.
If people are dumb enough to hold Greek bonds, then they are dumb enough to believe the demonization of Bitcoin, just like you believe in it (no offence meant)....
SO you see, media is the utmost important factor here, and the propaganda is strong believe me.
What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...
Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could
First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?
I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry
Ok i highly suggest you to watch this video about Bitcoin's growth curve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI
Also every single mass mania had atleast a 7 year unfolding period: facebook founded in 2003 it needed until 2007-2008 to become mainstream...
And so on, besides facebook and others had massive money backing them while bitcoin is only founded by the people, as i pointed out wallstreet is not interested in it yet, plus banks have other agendas trying to discredit it so that their own ponzi finance can become in monopoly.
Bitcoin is just challenging the global ponzi scheme, and if the nasty regulators dont interfere, it will eventually replace it.
Even if you just look at the money processing aspect, its far more superior than western union, credit cards and other BS. Instead of waiting 4 days for a transaction you wait 10 minutes....
The only, and i emphasize the only thing holding bitcoin back is the lack of media attention + progaganda trying to demonize it.
If people are dumb enough to hold Greek bonds, then they are dumb enough to believe the demonization of Bitcoin, just like you believe in it (no offence meant)....
SO you see, media is the utmost important factor here, and the propaganda is strong believe me.
So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?
Nobody has written about your topic.
Well, reserve currency doesn't exclude its use as currency in the common sense. All past reserve currencies were directly national currencies.
This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?
Oh c'mon man, you skeptics are saying the same thing over and over again.
I explained this in the Economics section already like 10 times already
1) Bitcoin is new, 6 years is not exactly a good sample to look at, but the mere existence of BTC proves that it will go on much longer
2) It was a bubble phase like with everything else.
The fact that the tulip mania in the 1600's crashes means that there is nobody selling tulips today? No it just means that the price of it got to a real level, the same can be said about bitcoin
3) The yearly inflation of BTC is still a bit high, so wallstreet is not that interested in it yet, but it will decrease eventually to 0%
4) The media demonizes it and statists are trying to sabotage it with regulation
Under these conditions its hard to grow to the moon, but dont be afraid it will get there eventually.
5) Just wait until Greece collapses and takes the EU with it (the 1000$ burst was because the maffia started seizing Cyprus accounts, what will happen when the Greeks start robbing their accounts => They are already looting private pensions lol) So yeah...
6) The US debt and Japan's debt is also not very shiny, so as the global economy gets worse and worse bitcoin will act as the perfect safe haven currency!
7) You are very impatient bro, stop looking for get-rich-quick and focus on longer picture!!
First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?
I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry
This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?
Oh c'mon man, you skeptics are saying the same thing over and over again.
I explained this in the Economics section already like 10 times already
1) Bitcoin is new, 6 years is not exactly a good sample to look at, but the mere existence of BTC proves that it will go on much longer
2) It was a bubble phase like with everything else.
The fact that the tulip mania in the 1600's crashes means that there is nobody selling tulips today? No it just means that the price of it got to a real level, the same can be said about bitcoin
3) The yearly inflation of BTC is still a bit high, so wallstreet is not that interested in it yet, but it will decrease eventually to 0%
4) The media demonizes it and statists are trying to sabotage it with regulation
Under these conditions its hard to grow to the moon, but dont be afraid it will get there eventually.
5) Just wait until Greece collapses and takes the EU with it (the 1000$ burst was because the maffia started seizing Cyprus accounts, what will happen when the Greeks start robbing their accounts => They are already looting private pensions lol) So yeah...
6) The US debt and Japan's debt is also not very shiny, so as the global economy gets worse and worse bitcoin will act as the perfect safe haven currency!
7) You are very impatient bro, stop looking for get-rich-quick and focus on longer picture!!
So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?
Nobody has written about your topic.
So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?
I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?
Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.
The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx
According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all.
It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.
No, not Italy. Spain wants to stay and Italy even more. The European Union without Italy is unimaginable. Italians love the convenience of the Euro and Italy is a founding member of Europe. The problem in Italy is its inefficient administrations.
Quote from: Armstrong
The Majority Are Just Fools
In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.
I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.
This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.
In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.
I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.
This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.
Why beat about the bush (no pun)? Did Hillary say something astonishingly new or truly insightful? Or is this society somehow more corrupt, and the majority of people are more sheep-like than they were through out the human history on average? If we see something today, does it mean that when we didn't see it, it didn't exist or happen?
These are actually rhetorical questions...
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 17: the majority are ALWAYS wrong (Hillary Clinton)
Subject: Mar 17: the majority ALWAYS fights their own shadow (Hillary Clinton)
From: iamback
Date: Tue, March 17, 2015 10:36 am
To: "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
No the people love all that spending. They would clamor to get their slice of the spending too.
And then blame “the 1%” for the problem, i.e. the “99% versus the 1%” Hegelian Dialectic (ain’t it hilarious to see the masses blaming their shadow and not realizing it).
Politicians are also quite clever in hiding their sources of ill gotten wealth:
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/17/the-majority-are-just-fools/
Subject: Mar 17: the majority are ALWAYS wrong (Hillary Clinton)
Subject: Mar 17: the majority ALWAYS fights their own shadow (Hillary Clinton)
From: iamback
Date: Tue, March 17, 2015 10:36 am
To: "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
...there would be an uprising if people realized how much money our governments waste on a daily basis.
No the people love all that spending. They would clamor to get their slice of the spending too.
And then blame “the 1%” for the problem, i.e. the “99% versus the 1%” Hegelian Dialectic (ain’t it hilarious to see the masses blaming their shadow and not realizing it).
Politicians are also quite clever in hiding their sources of ill gotten wealth:
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/17/the-majority-are-just-fools/
Quote from: Armstrong
The Majority Are Just Fools
In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.
I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.
This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.
In 2000, Bill and Hillary Clinton owed millions of dollars in legal debt. Since then, they’ve earned over $130 million. Where did the money come from? Most people assume that the Clintons amassed their wealth through lucrative book deals and high-six figure fees for speaking gigs. Now, Peter Schweizer shows who is really behind those enormous payments.
I was asked to review the documents when Hillary amazingly made hundreds of thousands of dollars trading futures at the same precise time she was in meetings. Her lawyer had an account at the same firm and a trade would be put on but left open until the end of the day. It would be a spread long and short the same commodity. At the end of the day, the losing trade went to her lawyer and the win into her account. Today, that is called money laundering.
This is why society must crash and burn. It is just too damn corrupt and the majority are simply sheep who believe whatever they say. The politicians know the people are stupid and the press is on their side. So how can we reform without being forced? Sorry, it is just impossible.
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.
Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener
They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.
You're probably right, there would be an uprising if people realized how much money our governments waste on a daily basis.
Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.
The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx
According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all.
It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.
Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.
The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx
According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all.
It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.
By definition a reserve currency means offchain transactions are not performed in reserve currency.
If instead the currency is used for all transactions, then there are no more national central banks and thus no FX reserves.
Please make up your mind what this is thread is about. The thread title says "reserve".
If instead the currency is used for all transactions, then there are no more national central banks and thus no FX reserves.
Please make up your mind what this is thread is about. The thread title says "reserve".
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.
Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener
They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.
Using a mixer should be considered as high treason with all ensuing consequences including confiscation of bitcoins. Splitting coins between several wallets should also entail a forfeit penalty without exceptions...
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.
Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener
They wouldn't allow for such transparency. They would probably use a mixer or something.
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
Being able to track and see what your bitcoin taxes are being spent on (by the government) would be interesting to say the least.
Browsing through the financial records of all politicians would surely be an eye-opener
- What would need to change for this to happen?
I don't know if that is going to happen in the first place. If it were, maybe the biggest concern is on the security part and how cold storage will work out here. Also Bitcoin needs to have worldwide adoption. People's mindset and perception need to change and not to link bitcoin towards illegal activities.
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
Oh, certainly the price will go up. There will be huge demand.
- What would be the benefits of this?
Bitcoin will be an alternative to gold.
- What would be the downside of this?
Not that I can see.
I don't know if that is going to happen in the first place. If it were, maybe the biggest concern is on the security part and how cold storage will work out here. Also Bitcoin needs to have worldwide adoption. People's mindset and perception need to change and not to link bitcoin towards illegal activities.
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
Oh, certainly the price will go up. There will be huge demand.
- What would be the benefits of this?
Bitcoin will be an alternative to gold.
- What would be the downside of this?
Not that I can see.
Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.
The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx
According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all.
That would bring huge changes, with countries unable to run a deficit.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
You could still borrow BTC. Or work with a token that could be redeemed for BTC.
Govt will always be running some kind of fractional reserve. Don't you think?
Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.
Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.
They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.
If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?
They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.
This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?
It's currently in an inflationary era of around 10% this year. Let's revisit the price around the time of the next halving. But yes, we are all guilty of wishful thinking (I know I am).
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.
Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.
They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.
If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?
They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.
This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.
Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.
They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.
If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?
They don't need it, but we do. And eventually bitcoin will take over, so they will have no choice but to adapt or perish. So if they are smart, and they are, they will just probably invest in it, and then take over bitcoin by owning a big market share.
Which i am fine with, because it will be atleast transparent and they cant do the QE anymore...
They will build all their derivative empire back, but this time it will be a legit foundation, and bitcoin will probably be a reserve currency, de facto, because they won't admit it, but de-facto it will be.
Yes some of them will feel threatened, and they will fight back, but eventually they will switch to bitcoin because it's just way more convenient, and people will become more productive this way...
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.
Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.
They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.
If they already have total control over the monetary system, why would they need anything else? Until they see a threat to their position, they won't do anything. The question is why you think bitcoin somehow threatens them. The bitcoin market is minuscule at best and it doesn't grow, so why should they care?
Also, how can bitcoin possibly take over, if these elites control both money flows and the sources that give birth to these flows?
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
No, why can't they just invest in bitcoin too? They are capitalists aren't they, they should adjust themselves to the market situations.
Sure now they have total control over the monetary system, but if they buy enough bitcoins they can control the bitcoin network too. They own the capital, they can control, simple as that.
They won't lose their power only if they are utterly stupid to wait until it completely takes over. If they are smart they invest in it now, which they probably do, hidden of course.
The only thing bitcoin will do it create transparancy. Yes the CB thieves can't rob us anymore trough inflation, but the legitimate investors can still hold a good market share on it, so capitalists wont be hurt.
See bitcoin is pro capitalism, not anti, so all true capitalist can jump on the ship with us aswell. As for the looting thieves in the banking cartel, they have no choice but to find a more legit profession. The market no longer needs their looting service
Old money won't let this happen, since this will necessarily bring forth redistribution of real wealth, and the wealthy elites won't be happy up to the point of physically eradicating the new competition. So, for this to happen (that is for a world with BTC as a reserve currency to come about), you first need to strip the global elite of their power. In the past this happened through natural disasters (like epidemics, famine, catastrophes, etc) or warfare...
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
Downside to this - loss of monetary flexibility.
There was a period of time when essentially the reserves of central banks was held in the form of gold. The Bretton Woods system tied the exchange rate of every currency to a known weight of gold. The effect of using Bitcoin as reserve currency would essentially be something similar. We know that all countries decided to drop the peg of their currencies to gold eventually.
It would be , probably, the same way as gold is the reserve currency, it is used as garantee so countries can acquire more debt, it would be overvalued and highly regulated at state level, individuals would use the same way we use it today.
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
1 What would need to change for this to happen?
2 What would change once it actually is used for it?
3 What would be the benefits of this?
4 What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
1 What would need to change for this to happen?
2 What would change once it actually is used for it?
3 What would be the benefits of this?
4 What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
1) Nothing, people would need to use bitcoin and stop using fiat crap. We dont need the maffia to give us permission to use bitcoin instead of $ or €, we would just simply use it and ignore what the maffia thugs tells us to do... People would be free!
2) True Freedom, political thieves, thugs and parasites would lose all their power which would be too good to be true...
3) Freedom? We would get rid of the 10.000 year old BEAST of the State & Government and similar forms of tyrranical ruling classes, which are the worst parasites that drink our blood and energy and money for 10.000 years...The control freaks would be gone once and for all...
4) Poor politician maffia thugs would lose their control over the human population, man it makes me so sad
- What would need to change for this to happen?
Greedy bankers and politicians would have to change. They all come from a different era (look at what Buffet is saying) and old farts like that don't change easily.
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
Bitcoin would go through the roof and we'd all gain much from it.
- What would be the benefits of this?
Banks would lose a lot of control and would have much less to say and couldn't blackmail whole countries anymore, taking advantage of the ones in debt.
- What would be the downside of this?
Who knows, maybe it would destabilize some economies. I'm sure not all countries would finally accept it. The world rarely agrees on something (think Russia vs USA).
Greedy bankers and politicians would have to change. They all come from a different era (look at what Buffet is saying) and old farts like that don't change easily.
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
Bitcoin would go through the roof and we'd all gain much from it.
- What would be the benefits of this?
Banks would lose a lot of control and would have much less to say and couldn't blackmail whole countries anymore, taking advantage of the ones in debt.
- What would be the downside of this?
Who knows, maybe it would destabilize some economies. I'm sure not all countries would finally accept it. The world rarely agrees on something (think Russia vs USA).
Why does the general consensus seem to be that there would not be debt based govt money?
There could be but if Bitcoin is the main reserve currency, it means it is widely used and a lot of people don't fall for the fiat sleezy tactics so there would be less fiat systems.
This is actually a point I am very interested in knowing. Basically this will determine how the systems really change.
The price will be huge (1+ million per coin) the price would be really stable and you could sleep at night knowing you would wake up with the same price.
And this is mostly due to a working financial derivatives market. Those markets help find the real price very fast and help stablize prices in the longer term. High market cap is also helping with this.
Why does the general consensus seem to be that there would not be debt based govt money?
There could be but if Bitcoin is the main reserve currency, it means it is widely used and a lot of people don't fall for the fiat sleezy tactics so there would be less fiat systems.
eating a wagyu foie gras hors d'oeurve.
After reading this I'd rather see bitcoin sinking into oblivion.
The price will be huge (1+ million per coin) the price would be really stable and you could sleep at night knowing you would wake up with the same price.
Why does the general consensus seem to be that there would not be debt based govt money?
Imagine how peaceful the world would be if governments could not print currency to fund wars. How would history look if the Soviets had to pay for the invasion of Afghanistan with real currency? Or if the Third Reich simply didn't have the hard currency to build their war machine.
Lol, this sure stopped the Romans, oh wait. Wars were still fought. The generals promised their troops land and other things. Instead of taking from others by stealth with fiat cash debasement, they would just physically take land from some guy and give it to the soldier, or the soldiers would rebel against the general for false promises.
Like a deflationary hell.
There would undoubtedly be some short term pain. The long term benefits outweigh the short term pains by a large margin. If governments cannot devalue currency people can retain their wealth and personal freedoms. Imagine how peaceful the world would be if governments could not print currency to fund wars. How would history look if the Soviets had to pay for the invasion of Afghanistan with real currency? Or if the Third Reich simply didn't have the hard currency to build their war machine.
Like a deflationary hell.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
Mass adoption is important for this to happen, to serve as a currency, bitcoin needs to be used as the other traditional currency, as of now, bitcoin is consider as a long term investment, which few hold in cold wallet, or used it as an instrument as daily trade, this does not serve the true purposes of bitcoin as a currency
but before being use as a currency, bitcoin need to have a stable price
Mass adoption is important for this to happen, to serve as a currency, bitcoin needs to be used as the other traditional currency, as of now, bitcoin is consider as a long term investment, which few hold in cold wallet, or used it as an instrument as daily trade, this does not serve the true purposes of bitcoin as a currency
but before being use as a currency, bitcoin need to have a stable price
That would bring huge changes, with countries unable to run a deficit.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
You could still borrow BTC. Or work with a token that could be redeemed for BTC.
Govt will always be running some kind of fractional reserve. Don't you think?
That would bring huge changes, with countries unable to run a deficit.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
That would call for an entire new class of politicians, as those who are in power now have no idea of what a balanced budget is.
It would need to be decentralized, it would need to have a community driven authentication system for transactions, it would need to be accessible to everyone, it would likely need to have a hard version (like cash) in the near term or for people without easy electronic access.
The only real change is that I would be sitting in my penthouse in toronto or tokyo or my mansion in LA, sipping on chateau mouton rothschild, and eating a wagyu foie gras hors d'oeurve.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
Bitcoin needs to be properly regulated internationally before this could happen and masss adoption has already taken place.
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
It will change the way people deals with money, the socio-political make-up of each country will change.
Other than the fact that the dollar would be destroyed, I don't think there would be much difference.
So if the dollar would be destroyed, don't you think this would have massive consequences, as printing USD is the biggest source of funding for the US govt?
Hey guys,
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.
- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?
Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!
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