How would you convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong?

samputin

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Quote from: Naida_BR on June 06, 2020, 02:48:04 AM

When someone is a thief it is not a matter of religion but a matter of education.

And may I just add that it's also a matter of being human.

You don't have to use biblical or religious verses just to convince an atheist that stealing is wrong. Yes, stealing is against one of the 10 commandments. But even without knowledge about the 10 commandments of God, one would know that taking something from others without their permission is wrong. How? Just by being human. Like, how would you feel if someone stole from you, right? Just by simply putting oneself in somebody else's shoes would allow one to think about his actions first.

Point is, regardless of religion, regardless of what one believes in, stealing is wrong.

BADecker

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Quote from: af_newbie on June 05, 2020, 10:52:19 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 05, 2020, 08:03:56 PM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on June 05, 2020, 01:19:34 PM

Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

You basically described the ruling elite. But still members of the ruling elite believe in existence of God. No problem for these thieves.

And what if God commands to kill non-believers? What if God asks to give golden hemorrhoids as a sacrifice? Both of these things happened in past and more.

God doesn't command this. But if you really believe that He does, you better obey Him.

Btw, if you think the Christian God and the Muslim God are the same God, you are missing it.

Cool

How many Gods are there?

There is one God, the Creator of everything.

But every atheist holds himself up to be god simply by not realizing the Creator from viewing nature.

Cool

Guryon_master

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Quote from: BADecker on June 03, 2020, 12:16:21 PM

Everybody knows in his heart that stealing is wrong. Knowing what's wrong isn't the point.

Cool

Absolutely!
why would bother such kind of person if from the first place he already knew about. I mean what's the point? You can't really convince him at all but I think you can help him by convincing him to accept it or else he will just keep trying to deny it.

BADecker

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How would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong?

Send him to Russia or China, and let him start over from scratch.

Either he will be dumb enough that he gets executed (if he is lucky), or he will get into big government and destroy the whole country, himself included.

Cool

20kevin20

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

At that point, the thief is relying solely on trust. He trusts the paid bodyguards, the bribed judges, the pulled strings just because of the money he has. At one point, the bodyguards themselves could steal and he would never even notice as the trust is too high - or the judges could be given an even higher bribe by a millionaire/billionaire to give that atheist thief a hard to digest sentence.

It's just common sense. You don't steal something somebody else has worked hard for. It's about being fair to everyone else. I never even thought of stealing as a sin or anything related to religion. It's a society thing really. How do you convince an atheist criminal or an atheist rapist that killing people or torturing them is wrong?

KonstantinosM

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Here's how to demolish his argument with an argument.

How do you convince a christian rapist that rape is wrong?

Rape is supported by the bible, you have a powerful man who has killed his male neighbors and taken all the females including the children. The rapist is really strong so that nobody not even the government can't catch him.

He uses the bible to justify his actions and claims that he acts according to god. He marries the now orphaned children and rapes them.

Or how do you stop a christian slave owner?

The bible does support slavery as well. Again with the same stupid argument the slaver is all powerful yadda yadda blah blah blah.

The reason why stealing and murder is wrong is because we live in a society. If stealing was allowed then there is a possibility that your stuff gets stolen. Everyone has an interest in not having their stuff stolen. So a thief like that will not only be stopped by the victims but by the sheer will of the people or those who have a duty to protect them.
(for example the police) or a mob of people who are sick of that shit.

Your friend's argument is dog shit.

edit: Spelling

madnessteat

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Quote from: Naida_BR on June 06, 2020, 02:48:04 AM

When someone is a thief it is not a matter of religion but a matter of education.
It doesn't matter that this guy is an atheist. He is not educated that he should not do that and we have to blame their family at first - their parents - and in a second thought his teachers at school.

You are right, we have been taught morals and norms of behavior through education and religion since childhood.

It is quite possible that this guy just denies morality because his parents suffered from this system and could not give this guy a decent education.

If such a person is not able to convince not to steal himself, it is better to seek help from psychologists.

Naida_BR

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When someone is a thief it is not a matter of religion but a matter of education.
It doesn't matter that this guy is an atheist. He is not educated that he should not do that and we have to blame their family at first - their parents - and in a second thought his teachers at school.

tvbcof

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I dunno. How would you convince a 'man of the cloth' that diddling little kids is wrong?

af_newbie

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Quote from: BADecker on June 05, 2020, 08:03:56 PM

Quote from: MysteryMiner on June 05, 2020, 01:19:34 PM

Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

You basically described the ruling elite. But still members of the ruling elite believe in existence of God. No problem for these thieves.

And what if God commands to kill non-believers? What if God asks to give golden hemorrhoids as a sacrifice? Both of these things happened in past and more.

God doesn't command this. But if you really believe that He does, you better obey Him.

Btw, if you think the Christian God and the Muslim God are the same God, you are missing it.

Cool

How many Gods are there?

BADecker

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Quote from: MysteryMiner on June 05, 2020, 01:19:34 PM

Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

You basically described the ruling elite. But still members of the ruling elite believe in existence of God. No problem for these thieves.

And what if God commands to kill non-believers? What if God asks to give golden hemorrhoids as a sacrifice? Both of these things happened in past and more.

God doesn't command this. But if you really believe that He does, you better obey Him.

Btw, if you think the Christian God and the Muslim God are the same God, you are missing it.

Cool

MysteryMiner

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Death to enemies!

Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

You basically described the ruling elite. But still members of the ruling elite believe in existence of God. No problem for these thieves.

And what if God commands to kill non-believers? What if God asks to give golden hemorrhoids as a sacrifice? Both of these things happened in past and more.

boyptc

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No need to relate this with religion.

Stealing is stealing and it can easily be understood that taking something you don't own is bad. But the situation makes it complicated because of those paid bodyguards and authorities.

And that relates it to reality.

LTU_btc

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I don't see relation between religion and stealing. I think you need to use other arguments than God's laws. Laws, criminal code, morals and is probably better, especially if you're talking with an atheist. "What if someone will steal from him, would it be OK?" or something similar probably is strongest argument.
But sometimes you simply can't other people opinion and any logical arguments will not work. He will try to counter your arguments, now matter how ridiculous it is. So, such discussion would be just waste of time.

BADecker

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How would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong?

I would show him all the life and health the medical is stealing from people - especially the children - with their toxic medicines and vaccines, and hope that his pity steps in and makes him realize that stealing is bad.

Cool

af_newbie

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

Stealing is wrong because it causes harm to another sentient being.

Follow this rule and you will be fine; no matter if you belong to religious cult, or not.

bkbirge

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Pretty simple. It causes pain and hardship to others when you steal. And eventually that ripple effect would be felt in everyone's lives including the thief's. No religion needed to see that being a thief is bad.

CryCrptoCry

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 01:07:18 PM

Quote from: CryCrptoCry on June 03, 2020, 12:38:09 PM

Now ask your friend to define Good and Bad. There is no objective morality out there so it will be very hard for him to define it ( because he is listening to Jakir Naik crap lol ). Stealing is not good neither it is bad (in an objective sense). Good and Bad are social constructions which we made for evolutionary reasons. So this question does not make sense, it is like asking what is the color of love ( many will say red/pink lol) ?

This doesn't make sense. You are supporting the very which you intend to contrast.

If good and bad are not objective according to you, you are actually supporting what my friend said, that good and bad isn't objective but what God has revealed to human beings. Your logic breaks your own conclusion.

Quote from: DireWolfM14 on June 03, 2020, 12:48:47 PM

Which came first, ~~the chicken or the egg~~ ethics or religion? I have nothing against religion or religious people, but the notion that one needs religion to be ethical is not only ludicrous, but kind of disturbing. I guess that's why we have religion, for those who are incapable of behaving ethically without the threat of fire and brimstone and eternal damnation.

I don't disagree. But I think religion from ancient times has had an influence in shaping the molarity and ethics which we today believe in. A sky daddy isn't truly needed to define morality, but keeping slaves were legal very recently till even in countries where state and church were separated!

I know it is hard to understand but look at following way,

1) Why your theist friend is asking the question? Because he knows that there is no objective morality out there which is the point of an atheist and is very hard to dismantle because of logical in nature. So what he is doing is turning the table which you must have prevented in the very first place by asking him to define what is Good and Bad.

2)He is setting a closed ended question by presenting atheist as thief. You can ask him why loving your neighbors is good for a religious person (in absolute sense)?

Renampun

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you have a funny friend...
I am a Christian and certainly I will explain stealing is wrong based on God's law: "The 7th Commandment", but if the atheist persists, then I will leave him because he is only opinionated by his thoughts and that is difficult to change.

madnessteat

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I would just hide some very important thing for him for a while (I think one day is enough). But he needs to use this thing every day, not be able to quickly replace it and the loss of which would cause him anxiety.

After a day, I would return this thing to him and explain that this anxious feeling is experienced by every person who has lost something or who has been robbed.

jrrsparkles

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No matter how much rich you are and how much security you have the death will arrive that is the only time people will realize so until that you can't change them so be a good person to yourselves and if everyone thinks in that way then there will be no crimes.

iamsheikhadil

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Quote from: CryCrptoCry on June 03, 2020, 12:38:09 PM

Now ask your friend to define Good and Bad. There is no objective morality out there so it will be very hard for him to define it ( because he is listening to Jakir Naik crap lol ). Stealing is not good neither it is bad (in an objective sense). Good and Bad are social constructions which we made for evolutionary reasons. So this question does not make sense, it is like asking what is the color of love ( many will say red/pink lol) ?

This doesn't make sense. You are supporting the very which you intend to contrast.

If good and bad are not objective according to you, you are actually supporting what my friend said, that good and bad isn't objective but what God has revealed to human beings. Your logic breaks your own conclusion.

Quote from: DireWolfM14 on June 03, 2020, 12:48:47 PM

Which came first, ~~the chicken or the egg~~ ethics or religion? I have nothing against religion or religious people, but the notion that one needs religion to be ethical is not only ludicrous, but kind of disturbing. I guess that's why we have religion, for those who are incapable of behaving ethically without the threat of fire and brimstone and eternal damnation.

I don't disagree. But I think religion from ancient times has had an influence in shaping the molarity and ethics which we today believe in. A sky daddy isn't truly needed to define morality, but keeping slaves were legal very recently till even in countries where state and church were separated!

cabron

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Is didn't know atheist approve stealing. But its breaking the law and its in every constitution.

The easiest way for them to realize that stealing isn't good is to steal something from them. If that doesn't work then steal more from them, take their car and credit cards. I'm sure they value money like everyone else and if they complain that means you did a wrong thing which is exactly stealing.

DireWolfM14

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Which came first, ~~the chicken or the egg~~ ethics or religion? I have nothing against religion or religious people, but the notion that one needs religion to be ethical is not only ludicrous, but kind of disturbing. I guess that's why we have religion, for those who are incapable of behaving ethically without the threat of fire and brimstone and eternal damnation.

CryCrptoCry

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First of all, tell your friend to stop listening to Jakir naik. Because he took his argument (as per your description) from the below mentioned lecture of Jakir Naik.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSvmlX8g3ig (argument starts 6.50 in video, so skip all crap).

Now ask your friend to define Good and Bad. There is no objective morality out there so it will be very hard for him to define it ( because he is listening to Jakir Naik crap lol ). Stealing is not good neither it is bad (in an objective sense). Good and Bad are social constructions which we made for evolutionary reasons. So this question does not make sense, it is like asking what is the color of love ( many will say red/pink lol) ?

BADecker

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 12:19:00 PM

Quote from: BADecker on June 03, 2020, 12:16:21 PM

Everybody knows in his heart that stealing is wrong. Knowing what's wrong isn't the point.

Cool

How so? The thief wouldn't consider it wrong, after all the easy money he gets to make on an hourly basis. He's in full profit all the time. Why would he feel sad and wrong for something that benefits him so much?

The laws are written in the heart of everyone. Sometimes the circumstances make it difficult to determine if one is obeying or disobeying. And after a time of disobedience, one can harden his heart so he almost can't feel the law any longer. But the law is still there.

Consider. Where did you get your hands and arms? I mean, if you lost an arm, is there any place you can go to get it back, or a new one grown? The original was given to you free, as a gift.

In the same way, the law of giving is written into the heart... not the law of stealing.

Cool

KingScorpio

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Quote from: iamsheikhadil on June 03, 2020, 11:55:52 AM

I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

you can give him some kind of identiy and domesticate him, so he doesnt want to damage a local economic system,

but in general it is very difficult, thats why there is police, besides not just atheists steal also religions steal and rob from each other and their sects

iamsheikhadil

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Quote from: BADecker on June 03, 2020, 12:16:21 PM

Everybody knows in his heart that stealing is wrong. Knowing what's wrong isn't the point.

Cool

How so? The thief wouldn't consider it wrong, after all the easy money he gets to make on an hourly basis. He's in full profit all the time. Why would he feel sad and wrong for something that benefits him so much?

BADecker

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Everybody knows in his heart that stealing is wrong. Knowing what's wrong isn't the point.

Cool

iamsheikhadil

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I am an agnostic but more towards atheism.

I was arguing with my religious friend and he said that it's impossible to lead a life without God's laws and set morals. And he asked me this question that how would I convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong.

The thief is so smart and has made millions. Police, courts, judges are in his pocket. He can't get arrested. No harm to him. So he can't see why it's wrong for him to steal?

The best answer I could have thought of was "maybe someone will steal from the thief himself and that way the thief would consider stealing wrong". But he refuted saying the thief has bigly paid bodyguards and security so he's rich enough to not get robbed himself.

What's your take on this, share opinions Cheesy

Topic: How would you convince an atheist thief that stealing is wrong? (Read 424 times)