HydroMining | Bitcointalksearch.org

kjlimo

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1031

Quote from: kidgorgeous on October 01, 2012, 02:08:31 PM

If the announced increase in hashrate of the butterfly SC singles does pan out (60GH versus 40 GH) will the bonds get the extra increase included in their hash rate? Would it work out to something like 320MH per bond. Also what's you SC upgrade order number?
-A happy Hydrobond holder.

Yeah, I'm surprised there has been no increase in the price of this bond... guess it's time to get some more on the cheap Cheesy

Jurek

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

There is no such thing as a happy BOND holder...

kidgorgeous

member

Activity: 75

Merit: 10

If the announced increase in hashrate of the butterfly SC singles does pan out (60GH versus 40 GH) will the bonds get the extra increase included in their hash rate? Would it work out to something like 320MH per bond. Also what's you SC upgrade order number?
-A happy Hydrobond holder.

Jurek

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

Dividends?

Jurek

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

Thanks for pointing this out. I got to the bitcoin game a bit late, there is a lot to catch up!

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Jurek on August 09, 2012, 04:58:18 PM

So you are offering free upgrade to 215Mh/s per bond, right?

That's 1.325/215Mh/s ~ 0.006BTC per 1Mh/s after upgrade. That's about two times cheaper than what Bitbond offers. What's the catch?

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2012, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: amazingrando on July 29, 2012, 12:20:44 PM

* Free: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 12.5Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for free
* Small upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 45Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 0.25 btc
* Large upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 450Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 5.5 btc

In other words, assuming a value of 0.50BTC per BITBOND share:

Free: 12.5 Mh/s for 0.50BTC = 25 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0400BTC / 1 Mh/s
Small: 45 Mh/s for 0.75BTC = 60 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0167BTC / 1 Mh/s
Large: 450 Mh/s for 6BTC = 75 Mh/s per BTC, 0.0133BTC / 1 Mh/s

This bond is only invested in butterfly singles. The bonds you are talking about are invested in gpu equipment. It's a whole different situation for them.

labestiol

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

Quote from: Jurek on August 09, 2012, 04:58:18 PM

So you are offering free upgrade to 215Mh/s per bond, right?

That's 1.325/215Mh/s ~ 0.006BTC per 1Mh/s after upgrade. That's about two times cheaper than what Bitbond offers. What's the catch?

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2012, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: amazingrando on July 29, 2012, 12:20:44 PM

* Free: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 12.5Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for free
* Small upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 45Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 0.25 btc
* Large upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 450Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 5.5 btc

In other words, assuming a value of 0.50BTC per BITBOND share:

Free: 12.5 Mh/s for 0.50BTC = 25 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0400BTC / 1 Mh/s
Small: 45 Mh/s for 0.75BTC = 60 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0167BTC / 1 Mh/s
Large: 450 Mh/s for 6BTC = 75 Mh/s per BTC, 0.0133BTC / 1 Mh/s

That's an easy one, bitbond & gigamining are making a profit from the transition to asics, he's not.

(disclosure, I own some hydromining bonds)

Jurek

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

So you are offering free upgrade to 215Mh/s per bond, right?

That's 1.325/215Mh/s ~ 0.006BTC per 1Mh/s after upgrade. That's about two times cheaper than what Bitbond offers. What's the catch?

Quote from: odolvlobo on July 31, 2012, 03:36:00 AM

Quote from: amazingrando on July 29, 2012, 12:20:44 PM

* Free: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 12.5Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for free
* Small upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 45Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 0.25 btc
* Large upgrade: 2M/s BITBOND converts to 450Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for 5.5 btc

In other words, assuming a value of 0.50BTC per BITBOND share:

Free: 12.5 Mh/s for 0.50BTC = 25 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0400BTC / 1 Mh/s
Small: 45 Mh/s for 0.75BTC = 60 Mh/s per BTC, or 0.0167BTC / 1 Mh/s
Large: 450 Mh/s for 6BTC = 75 Mh/s per BTC, 0.0133BTC / 1 Mh/s

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: sunnankar on August 06, 2012, 12:52:40 AM

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 22, 2012, 01:04:06 AM

I have made a update regarding the ASIC announcement. I set the bond price at 1.73 btc.

Is there something unclear about the announcement that would lead to uncertainty or are these currently undervalued compared to GIGAMINING or BITBONDS?

GIGAMINING - 1.13 - .226
BITBONDS - 0.45 - .214
HYDRO.BONDS - 1.335 - .1335

Some of the older more popular bonds are being overvalued. It's hard to believe bonds invested in gpu's would hold a value that high with ASIC's coming out.

sunnankar

legendary

Activity: 1031

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 22, 2012, 01:04:06 AM

I have made a update regarding the ASIC announcement. I set the bond price at 1.73 btc.

Is there something unclear about the announcement that would lead to uncertainty or are these currently undervalued compared to GIGAMINING or BITBONDS?

GIGAMINING - 1.13 - .226
BITBONDS - 0.45 - .214
HYDRO.BONDS - 1.335 - .1335

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Payments Issued 8-5

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Shadow383 on July 29, 2012, 08:51:35 PM

In an ideal world, what I (and I suspect many others) are looking for in mining assets is something very much like this, but as a share rather than a bond.
IPO it, set it so that half the mining proceeds (less the cost of your cheap power + 5% or so for yourself) get paid out as dividends and the rest get spent on new hardware for the company. You'd end up with quite a large hashrate quite quickly. I'd certainly be happy to invest Cheesy

There's no reason why you couldn't do a second IPO Wink

You can always reinvest your dividends. If you reinvested half your dividends you should end up with nearly the same result.

Shadow383

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

In an ideal world, what I (and I suspect many others) are looking for in mining assets is something very much like this, but as a share rather than a bond.
IPO it, set it so that half the mining proceeds (less the cost of your cheap power + 5% or so for yourself) get paid out as dividends and the rest get spent on new hardware for the company. You'd end up with quite a large hashrate quite quickly. I'd certainly be happy to invest Cheesy

There's no reason why you couldn't do a second IPO Wink

chunglam

donator

Activity: 229

Merit: 106

Quote from: cuz0882 on July 22, 2012, 06:28:03 PM

Quote from: chunglam on July 22, 2012, 04:58:54 PM

This week's payment?

Payments sent.

Received, thanks.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: chunglam on July 22, 2012, 04:58:54 PM

This week's payment?

Payments sent.

chunglam

donator

Activity: 229

Merit: 106

This week's payment?

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Payments issued 7-15

chunglam

donator

Activity: 229

Merit: 106

0.197 BTC per Mh/s with free ASIC upgrade, good deal.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Payments issued 7-8

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Payments issued.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: EskimoBob on June 22, 2012, 08:57:24 AM

If you like to make this bond even remotely interesting, fix part of the coupon and let part of it float, based on Mh/s.
Make it even more serious, add a fixed price and the date, when your bonds mature aka date and price you buy back all the bonds.
This is how bonds are usually issued. This perpetual garbage, with floating call price and what not, has to die

It's impossible to know what the profits will be from a single. I've set the price to be as fixed as possible.

Quote

If you really want to issue a proper perpetual bond, fix the call price and set a reasonable call protection (date before bonds can not be called).

Let me ask this. Will you lend me money on similar terms like this perpetual garbage that floats around in GLBSE? Something like this: I'll pay you a part of what ever I can earn from the money you gave me and I'll pay you back the loan when it has become worthless (coupon payments are close to 0 an nobody wants to hold the bond any more)? Pay pack the loan when? Oh, when ever I feel like

Will you lend me money on those terms?

Yes, I just had $2,500 in GBLSE before I purchased my last order of singles. It's impossible to know if mining will be profitable in the long run. Bond holders are taking the same risk as normal miners. If you want a guaranteed buy back date and price they have US Savings bonds with 2.2% yearly interest.

Quote

BTW, In case of liquidation, bond owners come fist and you have to pay them before stock holders get anything. This also means you have to buy back all the bonds. Debt (bond, perpetual or not) must be taken care of first.

Why are you telling me this? Stop TROLLING everyone's security threads. Get a life dude.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

If you like to make this bond even remotely interesting, fix part of the coupon and let part of it float, based on Mh/s.
Make it even more serious, add a fixed price and the date, when your bonds mature aka date and price you buy back all the bonds.
This is how bonds are usually issued. This perpetual garbage, with floating call price and what not, has to die

If you really want to issue a proper perpetual bond, fix the call price and set a reasonable call protection (date before bonds can not be called).

Let me ask this. Will you lend me money on similar terms like this perpetual garbage that floats around in GLBSE? Something like this: I'll pay you a part of what ever I can earn from the money you gave me and I'll pay you back the loan when it has become worthless (coupon payments are close to 0 an nobody wants to hold the bond any more)? Pay pack the loan when? Oh, when ever I feel like

Will you lend me money on those terms?

BTW, In case of liquidation, bond owners come fist and you have to pay them before stock holders get anything. This also means you have to buy back all the bonds. Debt (bond, perpetual or not) must be taken care of first.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

I have made a update regarding the ASIC announcement. I set the bond price at 1.73 btc.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 05, 2012, 06:28:50 PM

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on June 05, 2012, 02:12:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

This may add cost, but I think that it would increase investor confidence, so you should do it.

I've been meaning to do it for myself as well. It's not very much to cover against that. I will see about getting it done before I sell any bonds.

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on June 05, 2012, 02:12:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

This may add cost, but I think that it would increase investor confidence, so you should do it.

Stephen Gornick

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1010

Quote from: ?? on ??

Right now I have 20gh of personal mining rigs and singles. I have more 10 singles ordered, most should be here when they ship out the next batch. I will only sell bonds that can be covered by what I'm currently running. All bonds will go towards singles until something better comes out.

Can the equipment be commercially insured against theft (& fire)?

Stephen Gornick

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1010

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 11:06:14 AM

It is a bond like stated above. The power costs may not seem to matter, but if I could no longer afford to mine because of high power costs it would matter. I would not invest with someone who had low profit margins with the block reward dropping to 25 soon.

Exactly! A bond is essentially a loan. Even if you trust the issuer to continue paying even if the venture is losing money, there is much less default risk if the venture is profiting well.

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 08:49:22 AM

my power cost at .0208/Kwh.

How? Is that a commercial rate?

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 08:49:22 AM

Comments are welcome.

Will this be a corporation, LLC, or sole proprietorship?

Looking forward to the details, like how much capacity, what type of mining equipment and facility, your qualifications, etc.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

That is an inaccurate assessment. Garr255 is not setting up an account for an anonymous person, he is housing and managing the hardware while the anonymous person has provided the financial liquidity. A synergy bond will be = to 1mhash while a hydro bond = 10mhashs. A synergy bonds hash rate is 10 times less so the price must be about 10 times less ending up very near your price/mhash ratio.
Synergy is being run by the same guy who runs cognitive. So I do not see any more risk than hydro.
Hydro does offer a much higher buy back rate of 1.3 compared to synergies 1.05. That is a more competitive stance.

Quote

"If operation is ceased at any time, during the same week the Investor, not the Manager, will repurchase all bonds at 105% the 744 hour average price."

I got the impression the anonymous investor is responsible for buying back bonds in liquidation, which would take responsibility off the manager..

punningclan

sr. member

Activity: 283

Merit: 250

Making a better tomorrow, tomorrow.

Low power mining operations are definitely lower risk and you have a cool name, I'm in!

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 03:54:00 PM

read the forum thread

The forums thread doesn't state a price and it hasn't been released onto glbse yet so no ticker yet.
Birds tell me that its price will make it very competitive in price. I am not just going off the thread.

It sounds like a person who is trusted is setting up a account for someone anonymous, but taking no responsibility for the account. The anonymous person claims to have enough liquid cash to cover all the bonds. Instead of using his money, he's paying to borrow it. The only price listed, was the same as me charging 2.5-3.0 btc. If they do default on the bonds the only person you can go after is the anonymous guy. If hes already risking his money, why borrow it at all?

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

read the forum thread

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 03:50:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

How do you plan to compete with synergy.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-competitive-mining-bond-synergy-25ghs-glbse-84993

Good question, I want to hear (read) the answer.

What's their Ticker symbol on GLBSE? or price?

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

How do you plan to compete with synergy.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-competitive-mining-bond-synergy-25ghs-glbse-84993

Good question, I want to hear (read) the answer.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Please give 2 example payout calculations, one with a week without difficulty changes and another one with a difficulty change during the week.

I'm currently evaluating mining bonds to conformity to their claimed payout rate and these things can become interesting to say the least...

Blazr

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1006

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 03:03:26 PM

I thought I already had listed the buyback price earlier. It's up there now. Most bonds can be repurchased buy the issuer. I don't see how they could guarantee a price at liquidation though.

Most mining bonds are perpetual mining bonds (they last forever). The only way the bond can be cancelled is by the issuer buying back, there is no liquidation as the bond holders don't own any assets, so it is a guaranteed price.

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 02:04:31 PM

I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I've looked at a lot of the mining bonds. I have not seen anyone with a guaranteed buyback price.

You didn't look hard enough then. All of the mining bonds have a buyback clause, those selling shares of a mining company don't have a buyback clause.

YABMC:

Quote from: https://glbse.com/asset/view/YABMC

THE ISSUER can buy back the bond at any time at a price equivalent to 105% of the highest price the bond was last traded on GLBSE over the previous 15 days (360 hours).

Bitbond:

Quote from: https://glbse.com/asset/view/BITBOND

The bond issues reserves the right purchase back coupons at 110% of the 15 day average trading price on GLBSE.

So just to clear things up, are you selling a bond, or shares in your mining company?

Not trying to argue with you or find fault in your operation, just want to get this clear as I'd like to invest. I don't think many people would invest in a bond without a buyback clause as it wouldn't make sense, you would be promising to pay us the mining proceeds forever and would have no way of cancelling the bond.

I thought I already had listed the buyback price earlier. It's up there now. Most bonds can be repurchased buy the issuer. I don't see how they could guarantee a price at liquidation though.

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

sounds good

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 02:34:28 PM

Quote from: tgmarks on June 04, 2012, 02:27:53 PM

I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Same here. However, I think that there are a couple of rough spots in your presentation.

Ya, I was filling out the GLBSE forms this morning and needed a link for bitcointalk. Figured I would get a chance to work on it before anyone posted..

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: tgmarks on June 04, 2012, 02:27:53 PM

I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Same here. However, I think that there are a couple of rough spots in your presentation.

tgmarks

donator

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

I'm very interested. Will keep an eye out for the IPO.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 02:04:31 PM

Quote from: Blazr on June 04, 2012, 01:09:52 PM

As mentioned, if its a bond we don't care about your electricity price. If it becomes unprofitable to mine, most bonds will buy back the shares at a higher price.

I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I've looked at a lot of the mining bonds. I have not seen anyone with a guaranteed buyback price.

Nearly every mining bond out there has a clause similar to "Buying back for 110% of higherst trade in the last 5 days" or so. You seem to be wanting to offer a share in your mining operation instead...

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Blazr on June 04, 2012, 01:09:52 PM

As mentioned, if its a bond we don't care about your electricity price. If it becomes unprofitable to mine, most bonds will buy back the shares at a higher price.

I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I've looked at a lot of the mining bonds. I have not seen anyone with a guaranteed buyback price.

Quote

Anyways I'm interested, mainly due to it being hydropowered. Is there a buy-back clause, and when do you plan to open the IPO?

I'm not in a hurry, I wanted to get some feedback first. Maybe a week or two. I would not have a buy-back clause just what's listed above.

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: Blazr on June 04, 2012, 01:09:52 PM

As mentioned, if its a bond we don't care about your electricity price. If it becomes unprofitable to mine, most bonds will buy back the shares at a higher price.

Anyways I'm interested, mainly due to it being hydropowered. Is there a buy-back clause, and when do you plan to open the IPO?

+1

Blazr

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 1006

As mentioned, if its a bond we don't care about your electricity price. If it becomes unprofitable to mine, most bonds will buy back the shares at a higher price.

Anyways I'm interested, mainly due to it being hydropowered. Is there a buy-back clause, and when do you plan to open the IPO?

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 12:39:28 PM

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 11:26:18 AM

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 10:04:52 AM

are you using hydro power?

That's why I used the name..

Are you generating the hydro power? If not, how are you sourcing your power?

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/jun/01/cheapest-electricity-in-the-entire-country-but/

Ok. Thanks.

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: cuz0882 on June 04, 2012, 11:26:18 AM

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 10:04:52 AM

are you using hydro power?

That's why I used the name..

Are you generating the hydro power? If not, how are you sourcing your power?

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vernon715 on June 04, 2012, 10:04:52 AM

are you using hydro power?

That's why I used the name..

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: brendio on June 04, 2012, 10:13:36 AM

Is this a bond or a share? If it's a bond, we don't really care what your power costs you. It makes no difference to payouts as these are calculated according to a formula for the PPS expected output. Your costs are included in the price you offer the bonds for. And the hardware is yours. Bondholders have no claim. But if it breaks down, the issuer is liable for replacing it.

For a share offer, power costs do matter as they are expenses of the company. Shareholders generally have a claim over assets in liquidation and are liable for expenses in replacing faulty hardware not covered by warranty.

Do a bit more research of the current offerings and what terms they have and work out which category you fit in.

It is a bond like stated above. The power costs may not seem to matter, but if I could no longer afford to mine because of high power costs it would matter. I would not invest with someone who had low profit margins with the block reward dropping to 25 soon.

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: brendio on June 04, 2012, 10:13:36 AM

Is this a bond or a share? If it's a bond, we don't really care what your power costs you. It makes no difference to payouts as these are calculated according to a formula for the PPS expected output. Your costs are included in the price you offer the bonds for. And the hardware is yours. Bondholders have no claim. But if it breaks down, the issuer is liable for replacing it.

For a share offer, power costs do matter as they are expenses of the company. Shareholders generally have a claim over assets in liquidation and are liable for expenses in replacing faulty hardware not covered by warranty.

Do a bit more research of the current offerings and what terms they have and work out which category you fit in.

+1

brendio

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Is this a bond or a share? If it's a bond, we don't really care what your power costs you. It makes no difference to payouts as these are calculated according to a formula for the PPS expected output. Your costs are included in the price you offer the bonds for. And the hardware is yours. Bondholders have no claim. But if it breaks down, the issuer is liable for replacing it.

For a share offer, power costs do matter as they are expenses of the company. Shareholders generally have a claim over assets in liquidation and are liable for expenses in replacing faulty hardware not covered by warranty.

Do a bit more research of the current offerings and what terms they have and work out which category you fit in.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

0.0208 of what per kWh exactly? USD? EUR? BTC?

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

are you using hydro power?

zerokwel

sr. member

Activity: 464

Merit: 250

Hydro as he's using cheap hydropower ?

what price are the shares going to be?
How many are going to be issued?
what happens if you no longer want to offer this buyback rates etc?
Or if your equipment blows up etc?

Vernon715

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Why is it called hydro mining?

cuz0882

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

News

Things may be on hold for a while. You can msg me directly if you have questions.

Topic: HydroMining (Read 8264 times)