Topic: Hypothetical idea for better initial distribution of a new coin (Read 672 times)
Sounds similar to an IPO
February 05, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
The problem with most coins seems to be that those people who got in at the start end up controlling a large amount of the coin which will hurt the coin in the long run due to increased price volatility and lack of wider community support, trust, and goodwill. A coin with a more equal initial distribution may also fail due to lack of people having enough vested interest in it to drive development and promotion.
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Helix coin. Your wallet address is equal to your unique genetic code. You enter a blood sample into your wallet and it generates and address for you and deposits 1 coin. The fairest coin ever. Everyone gets one. Even the unborn will get a coin when they appear. No premine, no instamine.
February 05, 2014, 03:28:16 PM
I will have a look in to NEM but it seems a bit like NXT for people who missed the chance to initially invest in NXT (but I may be wrong!)
I admit it would be hard to implement a cap on how much of this currency someone could get as they could create multiple wallets to get round any cap. This same issue may relate to the voting but again I am sure we could come up with some way round this.
We would need to think very carefully about the pricing and cap for instance a 1$ = 1 coin with a cap of 50 million would potentially generate 50 million $. I would be very surprised if any one person or entity would speculatively invest enough to have a destabilizing large stake in this! Especially as having this big a stake would probably result less trust in the coin and therefore a much more risky investment. Obviously setting such a high target would run the risk of falling way short (which may not necessarily be a bad thing).
We may even be able to have it so the community invests and then votes on when the cap shall come in to force, say when a million coins have been sold or 100 million etc depending on how much investment is coming in and how complete the Coin ecosystem is.
You may also need to have it so the price increase every few months by 5% against the dollar or something just to motivate people to move sooner.
I wonder how much it would cost to build a new Coin with all the security and apps and have the coin adopted by everyone from your local corner shop to Amazon.com? I doubt anyone in the world could tell me but it would be quite a lot. But then you may get a snowball effect especially if people did not feel like they had completely missed the boat to invest…..
E.g Everyone Invests 1$ at a time gaining 1 coin. Until the point comes when we have market dominance, the coin is everywhere. As ubiquitous as the US$ but entirely decentralized. The global user community then votes to end production and unpin the coin from the $. Production ends, a cap is reached. The price increases, the $ falls. Everyone wins apart from the Banks and corrupt governments. A new golden age for mankind starts.
That last bit obviously is a bit hyperbolic but I am just thinking out loud now.
I admit it would be hard to implement a cap on how much of this currency someone could get as they could create multiple wallets to get round any cap. This same issue may relate to the voting but again I am sure we could come up with some way round this.
We would need to think very carefully about the pricing and cap for instance a 1$ = 1 coin with a cap of 50 million would potentially generate 50 million $. I would be very surprised if any one person or entity would speculatively invest enough to have a destabilizing large stake in this! Especially as having this big a stake would probably result less trust in the coin and therefore a much more risky investment. Obviously setting such a high target would run the risk of falling way short (which may not necessarily be a bad thing).
We may even be able to have it so the community invests and then votes on when the cap shall come in to force, say when a million coins have been sold or 100 million etc depending on how much investment is coming in and how complete the Coin ecosystem is.
You may also need to have it so the price increase every few months by 5% against the dollar or something just to motivate people to move sooner.
I wonder how much it would cost to build a new Coin with all the security and apps and have the coin adopted by everyone from your local corner shop to Amazon.com? I doubt anyone in the world could tell me but it would be quite a lot. But then you may get a snowball effect especially if people did not feel like they had completely missed the boat to invest…..
E.g Everyone Invests 1$ at a time gaining 1 coin. Until the point comes when we have market dominance, the coin is everywhere. As ubiquitous as the US$ but entirely decentralized. The global user community then votes to end production and unpin the coin from the $. Production ends, a cap is reached. The price increases, the $ falls. Everyone wins apart from the Banks and corrupt governments. A new golden age for mankind starts.
That last bit obviously is a bit hyperbolic but I am just thinking out loud now.
February 05, 2014, 02:22:42 PM
The problem with most coins seems to be that those people who got in at the start end up controlling a large amount of the coin which will hurt the coin in the long run due to increased price volatility and lack of wider community support, trust, and goodwill. A coin with a more equal initial distribution may also fail due to lack of people having enough vested interest in it to drive development and promotion.
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
You need to look at NEM:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-nem-4-billions-coins-part-1-this-thread-is-no-longer-used-422129
Even though there is a linear increase in the buy-in price per coin, the difference between paying 4$ or 40$ for a 1/3000th stake will be negligible if NEM makes it.
Not to siderail, but how would you go about convincing somebody that a redone protocol on top of a relatively new protocol is a worthy investment?
February 05, 2014, 02:18:48 PM
The trickiest thing is finding the correct type of community to invest, and then finding the correct community to embrace and support this coin.
Going down the path you proposed, it's highly likely that you encounter significant resistance, and quite easily, significant amounts of FUD. Even with a blockchain as a measure to ensure proper distribution, what's to stop collusion or worse scapegoating someone?
The other thing to consider is what defines a "fair initial distribution?" What if someone has a significant sum they want to invest? What's available to stop them? Sure we could make individual caps, but what is to stop someone from making or buying tons of sock puppets? And if we're okay with significant investment, should we be concerned with somebody essentially have an overwhelming majority of stake?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the ideas you present, but there are some difficult questions to be addressed.
Going down the path you proposed, it's highly likely that you encounter significant resistance, and quite easily, significant amounts of FUD. Even with a blockchain as a measure to ensure proper distribution, what's to stop collusion or worse scapegoating someone?
The other thing to consider is what defines a "fair initial distribution?" What if someone has a significant sum they want to invest? What's available to stop them? Sure we could make individual caps, but what is to stop someone from making or buying tons of sock puppets? And if we're okay with significant investment, should we be concerned with somebody essentially have an overwhelming majority of stake?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the ideas you present, but there are some difficult questions to be addressed.
February 05, 2014, 02:13:48 PM
The problem with most coins seems to be that those people who got in at the start end up controlling a large amount of the coin which will hurt the coin in the long run due to increased price volatility and lack of wider community support, trust, and goodwill. A coin with a more equal initial distribution may also fail due to lack of people having enough vested interest in it to drive development and promotion.
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
You need to look at NEM:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-nem-4-billions-coins-part-1-this-thread-is-no-longer-used-422129
Even though there is a linear increase in the buy-in price per coin, the difference between paying 4$ or 40$ for a 1/3000th stake will be negligible if NEM makes it.
February 05, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
Yes I think that is a fair analogy but I would be confident the community has the technical ability to create a system for selling the coin, pooling the profits and then distributing them based on a democratic system with out any one person or group being able to run away with the money. Is this not the whole idea of the Blockchain?
If the use of $$$ is problematic I am sure Bitcoin or some other relatively stable coin could be used.
If the use of $$$ is problematic I am sure Bitcoin or some other relatively stable coin could be used.
February 05, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
So, essentially, a corporation where each shareholder is on the board of directors?
I have a rebuttal:
Assuming that my above comparison is accurate, consider that corporations are legal entities that can be sued, regulated, all the legal verbs, etc. With a cryptocurrency, it's impossible to objectively be sure that the developers won't just say "All the coins are sold, time to skip town."
I think it's an interesting idea, but one that can't be implemented due to the trust required.
I have a rebuttal:
Assuming that my above comparison is accurate, consider that corporations are legal entities that can be sued, regulated, all the legal verbs, etc. With a cryptocurrency, it's impossible to objectively be sure that the developers won't just say "All the coins are sold, time to skip town."
I think it's an interesting idea, but one that can't be implemented due to the trust required.
February 05, 2014, 01:32:30 PM
The problem with most coins seems to be that those people who got in at the start end up controlling a large amount of the coin which will hurt the coin in the long run due to increased price volatility and lack of wider community support, trust, and goodwill. A coin with a more equal initial distribution may also fail due to lack of people having enough vested interest in it to drive development and promotion.
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
What we need is a coin which rewards early investors but not to the point that it puts off any further investment.
Something like this may solve this issue:
A Preminded POS coin (stay with me) with the price initially pegged to, for example, the US Dollar $ until all coins have been sold. Say 1$ = 10 coins. People could then invest in this coin and the money generated would then go 100% in to a development and promotion "bounty" pot which users of the coin could vote on do determine its distribution. eg the community (holders of coin) could vote that the creation of a new website, android client, etc, may be worth 3000$ or something.
So if people invest 100000 usd worth of currency in to this new coin, 100000 usd of development could take place with no one getting insanely wealthy and the developers getting a fair rate of reward.
I would hope people may invest this coin because they can see how much money / effort will go in to development with none of the "bad blood" and "jealousy" you see on forums at the moment. People who invest early would still hope to see a very good rate of return in the long run after price controls are removed (when all the coins have been sold and an open exchange is set up) leaving them with a fully functioning highly developed coin with no one group of people owning too big a stake and no one bitching about how the initial release was sooo unfair.
Once all the coins have been sold a small transaction fee could be used in roughly equal amounts to:
1. Reward people maintaining the network
2. Go in to a pot which would be distributed based on user’s votes (fixing any issues, promoting the currency, giving away to external groups, distributed evenly or unevenly back among users as interest, whatever)
I suggested a Preminded POS coin as I see mining as quite resource inefficient and contributing to disparity of initial distribution of some coins.
I am clearly new here and have no vested interest in any coin (I sold my few Bitcoin when the price went crazy last year). If this idea or one like it already exists please let me know or feel free to tell me why this idea would not work. However I would certainly be interested in investing in a coin with a big development budget and a sensible initial distribution!
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