Topic: &quot;I am in batch 1 and I am screwed by knc.&quot; (Read 3214 times)

Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

Quote from: m3 on July 05, 2014, 06:05:37 PM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

That may be true at today's difficulty, however the difficulty will rise rapidly over time, making it difficult to recoup all of your initial investment for the miner and your electric costs.

ALToids

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if you preordered a mining rig be ready to face trouble and delays. Worst comes to worst you participate in a class action lawsuit.

Most ASIC preorder failures will never even get to that point. Ever hear of bASIC? One of the most trusted forum members started that and it went belly up and there is nobody to sue.

m3

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if you preordered a mining rig be ready to face trouble and delays. Worst comes to worst you participate in a class action lawsuit.

NapoleonBonaparte

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Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

Quote from: allsopfree on July 04, 2014, 03:23:32 PM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

"IF" doesn't reward well in investment world.

demme

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Another Scam like mt.gox i guess, good luck in future

Nice comparison, indeed, spot on Roll Eyes

allsopfree

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Another Scam like mt.gox i guess, good luck in future

xstr8guy

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Glow Stick Dance!

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

They won't be making ASICs for the general public after they ship the last Titan. Home mining is dead and you won't be able to buy anything but crap hobbyist mining gear by October... maybe sooner.

RoadStress

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Quote from: brian_23452 on July 02, 2014, 11:12:53 AM

So, I'm looking to get a list together of other people who are in the same boat with a view to pursuing joint legal action if KnC don't honor refunds.

Let us know when/if you start the legal action because I wish to donate something for the cause. Good luck.

gmaxwell

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Please pay attention to the original post. This isn't a thread to debate KNC generally, the OP is "looking to get a list together of other people who are in the same boat with a view to pursuing joint legal action if KnC don't honor refunds". Please try to confine your responses to addressing that.

demme

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Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

Yea, but a month ago it would have been 12BTC. A month before that, it would have been 30BTC. It's halving every month, on a daily basis (meaning for instance, two weeks from now you will no longer be on pace to make 5BTC for that first month). In reality, if the trends from the past 6+ months hold steady, if you had 200 Mh/s today, in one month you would earn about 4.5BTC. But in two months you will have earned only 7, and in three months you will have earned only 8.25, and in four months you will have earned only 9. It isn't worth calculating after that as the gains are nonexistent. Obviously these numbers are not exact but the trend for the past 6 months is remarkably steady so there is little reason to think it will suddenly change, unless you think SCRYPT coins in general are going to suddenly skyrocket in value vs BTC.
Now when you consider that you won't be getting 200Mh/s today, but rather several months from now, it is easy to see that his statement "people who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment" is a huge understatement.
Naturally though, KNC will get their units 1-2 months before their customers, and they will pay cost for the units, so they will make a substantial profit.

I'm pretty sure they sit on their units for some time, but saying they mine with their units for 1-2 months is not true.

It is us, the customers who are paying for the units when we deposit our pre-order $$$$....

They could keep all units and not sell one machine and hope they get their investment back from mining, or they could take pre-orders, mine/"TEST" them and then shipping them out. The second one is a 100% sucess as they already have gotten paid b4 they even start making units

brian_23452

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Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

Yea, but a month ago it would have been 12BTC. A month before that, it would have been 30BTC. It's halving every month, on a daily basis (meaning for instance, two weeks from now you will no longer be on pace to make 5BTC for that first month). In reality, if the trends from the past 6+ months hold steady, if you had 200 Mh/s today, in one month you would earn about 4.5BTC. But in two months you will have earned only 7, and in three months you will have earned only 8.25, and in four months you will have earned only 9. It isn't worth calculating after that as the gains are nonexistent. Obviously these numbers are not exact but the trend for the past 6 months is remarkably steady so there is little reason to think it will suddenly change, unless you think SCRYPT coins in general are going to suddenly skyrocket in value vs BTC.
Now when you consider that you won't be getting 200Mh/s today, but rather several months from now, it is easy to see that his statement "people who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment" is a huge understatement.
Naturally though, KNC will get their units 1-2 months before their customers, and they will pay cost for the units, so they will make a substantial profit.

bitgeek

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Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

Quote from: NapoleonBonaparte on July 02, 2014, 08:49:39 AM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

That's what I'm talking about, the numbers look promising, and mining can be a rewarding hobby, but it starts to look grim if you can't be sure to receive the hardware at all.
Mining industry would be a dream land full of rainbows and ponies if the manufacturers started being honest and deliver products on time.

An investor has a lot of variables to consider, like exchange rates, power consumption and difficulty, and on top of this we have to worry that they may simply not deliver, or worse take our money and run (or file for bankruptcy which is the same thing).

raskul

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If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

if you have 200MH/s today, you'd be mining 5BTC per month.

NapoleonBonaparte

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If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

People who pre-order Titan will have trouble getting back their investment.

user27

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Quote from: raskul on July 02, 2014, 02:50:17 AM

If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

I expect Titan to be fine; as I understand it the original KnC team moved from 28nm BTC rigs to 28nm LTC rigs and the noobs moved in to screw us on Neptune.

bitgeek

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If they run into similar problems with Titan this might be the end of their journey. There are already competitors with cheaper hardware.

user27

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Quote from: user27 on July 02, 2014, 02:48:29 AM

I'm getting worried that they shipped all but two out of batch 1 now; surely people would have posted here otherwise?

u27

you can cite prejudice if this is the case. first they ban you from their forum for asking perfectly legitimate questions, then they refuse to ship a product you paid $10k for.

I'd take it to a lawyer, stinks of prejudice.

Anna just told me they are still shipping and they have chips... funny how nobody has posted a "got my miner today!" on their "shipment progress confirmation" thread since Q2.

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/47413-neptune-shipment-progress-confirmation-thread?p=49231#post49231

I despair.

raskul

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Quote from: user27 on July 02, 2014, 02:48:29 AM

Quote from: AFox on July 01, 2014, 06:04:56 PM

Oh, i didn't see that news.
Oh well, it's a good time to ask for a refund. They cannot use their "We are shipping" excuse to refuse them.

I'm getting worried that they shipped all but two out of batch 1 now; surely people would have posted here otherwise?

u27

you can cite prejudice if this is the case. first they ban you from their forum for asking perfectly legitimate questions, then they refuse to ship a product you paid $10k for.

I'd take it to a lawyer, stinks of prejudice.

user27

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Quote from: AFox on July 01, 2014, 06:04:56 PM

Oh, i didn't see that news.
Oh well, it's a good time to ask for a refund. They cannot use their "We are shipping" excuse to refuse them.

I'm getting worried that they shipped all but two out of batch 1 now; surely people would have posted here otherwise?

u27

AFox

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Quote from: user27 on July 01, 2014, 05:32:52 PM

Quote from: AFox on July 01, 2014, 01:05:16 PM

I am in batch 1 and KfC have run out of chips to make more Neptunes in the near future let alone ship them. This is the first time that they have broken promises / failed to deliver is such an easily provable way (it's Q3!).

And where did you get that information, sir ?

Please back this up with an official source and not a troll on the forum.

You're kidding right? How about https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-95 for an official source?

Oh, i didn't see that news.
Oh well, it's a good time to ask for a refund. They cannot use their "We are shipping" excuse to refuse them.

user27

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Quote from: user27 on July 01, 2014, 05:32:52 PM

So they ran out of hardware for now but are giving you the hash rate without you actually having to pay for electricity or to wait for them to ship/setup? Roll Eyes

I refunded my Neptunes a while ago.. but if I was in someones situation I would PREFER they cloud mine to save me $ - unless holding the physical machine to make less profit is what you're after?

Additionally, they could have said "we ran out, sucks, we'll ship them when we can" but they didn't - they are giving you the hash rate they owe you + no electric fees.

They offered a second miner from batch three some time back in order to compensate for rise in difficulty and stop everybody from refunding; they now require people to agree to a new set of T&C to take the cloud hashing option. The small print in the new T&C removes the second miner so nobody in their right mind would agree to it.

raskul

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Quote from: AFox on July 01, 2014, 01:05:16 PM

I am in batch 1 and KfC have run out of chips to make more Neptunes in the near future let alone ship them. This is the first time that they have broken promises / failed to deliver is such an easily provable way (it's Q3!).

And where did you get that information, sir ?

Please back this up with an official source and not a troll on the forum.

You're kidding right? How about https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-95 for an official source?

looks like it

Quote

Each and every production-ready Neptune processor we’ve been able to produce has been shipped out to customers as fast as possible.

meaning, they didn't actually receive all of the batch of chips they had in the oven...

Quote

We’re continuing with deliveries of Neptunes as fast as we can produce, but the demand for Neptunes has been bigger than the successful yield of 20nm wafers has been able to satisfy.

sounds about right.

user27

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Quote from: AFox on July 01, 2014, 01:05:16 PM

I am in batch 1 and KfC have run out of chips to make more Neptunes in the near future let alone ship them. This is the first time that they have broken promises / failed to deliver is such an easily provable way (it's Q3!).

And where did you get that information, sir ?

Please back this up with an official source and not a troll on the forum.

You're kidding right? How about https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-95 for an official source?

AFox

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