I can't find the file to let me connect a Bitcoin Full Node for Ledger Live App?

dkbit98

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Quote from: RickDeckard on January 11, 2024, 04:47:28 PM

I suppose that a better way to do this would be to build Ledger Live from source[2]? If, for some reason, users still would like to install Ledger Bitcoin application they can also do it without the need of Ledger Live by running python utilities[3].

There is one guy who is trying to clean the code of ledger live and make it better, but last thing I saw him saying that it is going to be hard to make it work without bugs.
This is because ledger implemented tracking crap in every segment of application, and cleaning it up is a Sisyphus work.
Here is the open source code of Lecce Libre app by REKTBuildr, but use at your own risk:
https://github.com/rektbuildr/lecce-libre

Pmalek

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Quote from: RickDeckard on January 11, 2024, 04:47:28 PM

What I found at the time is that you can generate the seed offline by simply plugging the device into a USB powered port and selecting "Create New Ledger".

Hmm, so the seed generation can begin even before you complete the Ledger Live onboarding process and the genuine check. I remembered it to be the other way around. But like I said, several years have passed since I last had to play around with that.

Quote from: RickDeckard on January 11, 2024, 04:47:28 PM

However, since they wanted to use all the crap that Ledger has to offer, they needed to run a genuine check (which, by the way, is incredible good at doxxing your information each time that you install an app on the device[1]) in order to run Ledger Live and proceed in installing apps and whatnot.

A real nightmare would be if they knew exactly who owned which device with some unique key identifier that gets tied to your name after you purchase the product. They would then have the apps, balances, and people owning said coins and tokens. All that is missing are the seeds and private keys, which is being handled by Ledger Recover and hopefully hasn't been retrieved in secret already.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 11, 2024, 11:41:57 AM

(...) But are you sure, as in you have tested it, that you can generate your seed without interacting with the native software app?

Full disclosure: I don't own a Ledger device. I have, however, a couple of friends that I wasn't successful in putting sense in their heads and they ended up buying a Ledger device because, according to them, "they seem to be a legit company"

. Since the damage was already done, I tried my best to learn how they could distance themselves the most they could from Ledger Live. What I found at the time is that you can generate the seed offline by simply plugging the device into a USB powered port and selecting "Create New Ledger". However, since they wanted to use all the crap that Ledger has to offer, they needed to run a genuine check (which, by the way, is incredible good at doxxing your information each time that you install an app on the device[1]) in order to run Ledger Live and proceed in installing apps and whatnot.

I suppose that a better way to do this would be to build Ledger Live from source[2]? If, for some reason, users still would like to install Ledger Bitcoin application they can also do it without the need of Ledger Live by running python utilities[3].

[1]https://crypto.bi/forum/threads/a-look-at-ledger-live-genuine-check-reveals-its-impossible-to-avoid-being-tracked.6/
[2]https://github.com/maxwell-k/ledger-windows-build
[3]https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledgerctl

Pmalek

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Quote from: RickDeckard on January 08, 2024, 06:16:19 PM

Since you do not need Ledger Live to generate a seed, you can just generate a new seed with the device and then proceed to follow the previous guides in order to use your device with Sparrow.

Well, you are going to need Ledger Live to finish the onboarding process and install the bitcoin application on the hardware wallet. But this part of your post that I quoted got me thinking now. It's been a long time since I set up my Ledger device, so I can't remember the exact steps. But are you sure, as in you have tested it, that you can generate your seed without interacting with the native software app?

RickDeckard

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 07, 2024, 07:45:13 AM

For most people it will come down to personal preference, but if you want the simplest way to connect to your own node then Sparrow is the way to go.

Independently of my stance regarding Ledger (I do not support their products & company), I do agree with o_e_l_e_o - Connecting your node with Sparrow is a very straightforward process (Windows[1] or macOS[2]) and so is creating a watch wallet using a Ledger device[3].

Since you do not need Ledger Live to generate a seed, you can just generate a new seed with the device and then proceed to follow the previous guides in order to use your device with Sparrow.

[1]https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/connect-node.html#sparrow-setup
[2]https://armantheparman.com/sparrowcore/
[3]https://armantheparman.com/ledgersparrow/

dkbit98

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Quote from: Thomas29 on January 07, 2024, 07:30:51 AM

Hmm thanks for the suggestion and why I have not heard of sparrow until now, especially if it's easier to use than Electrum what are the pros and cons between using the 2 Wallets?

Electrum wallet supports Lightning Network, unlike Sparrow wallet, but if you need QR code functionality than Sparrow is much better.
I also think that Sparrow wallet is supporting more hardware wallets and diy signing devices, and it can support Coinjoin.

You can compare this two and other wallets on thebitcoinhole website:
https://thebitcoinhole.com/software-wallets

o_e_l_e_o

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Both wallets are great. Both offer a lot of what you want from a light wallet, such as coin control, RBF, and so on.

I would say Electrum is probably simpler to use. Sparrow provides a lot of more advanced functions that Electrum doesn't, such as descriptors, which makes the interface a little bit more complicated (but you don't have to engage with these things if you don't want to). Sparrow is easier to connect to your own node, though, and therefore easier to use privately. Sparrow also integrates Samourai's Whirlpool, giving you direct access to coinjoins. Electrum supports Lightning, which Sparrow doesn't.

For most people it will come down to personal preference, but if you want the simplest way to connect to your own node then Sparrow is the way to go.

Thomas29

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Hmm thanks for the suggestion and why I have not heard of sparrow until now, especially if it's easier to use than Electrum what are the pros and cons between using the 2 Wallets?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: satscraper on January 03, 2024, 04:24:51 AM

Thus, one can stop all those connections via firewall rules.

Absolutely, but that's a lot more than simply connecting to your own node, which was the original statement.

Quote from: Thomas29 on January 02, 2024, 05:25:49 AM

Okay how do I set up my own node for Electrum desktop wallet to be used alongside my hardware Ledger Nano S?

You need to run your own Electrum server first. There are a variety to choose from - EPS, ElectrumX, electrs, Fulcrum - each with their own pros and cons. I'd agree with satscraper though, and I would also suggest Sparrow which will connect to Core directly without requiring additional server software.

satscraper

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 01, 2024, 03:05:24 PM

Connecting to your own node does nothing to stop any of this from happening.

In my view, blocking all of those connections is not a problem at all.

Wireshark (or similar traffic analyzers) could help to identify those IP that receive data collected by LL . Thus, one can stop all those connections via firewall rules.

Quote from: Thomas29 on January 02, 2024, 05:25:49 AM

Okay how do I set up my own node for Electrum desktop wallet to be used alongside my hardware Ledger Nano S?

tutorial

However, for pairing your Ledger Nano S, I would advocate Sparrow wallet rather than Electrum. The relevant procedure for Sparrow is more straightforward.

Thomas29

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 02, 2024, 02:29:36 AM

If you are using a Ledger Nano with Electrum, then there are three things to consider:

1 - You don't need to worry about the tracking features in Ledger Live while you are not using Ledger Live. However, at some point you must have used Ledger Live in order to initialize your device, and you may use it again in the future to either update your device or install different apps.

2 - You don't know what (if any) tracking software is embedded in the Ledger Nano itself, since it is closed source.

3 - If you are using a third party server with your Electrum client, then that server will see all your addresses and transactions. You should ideally be pointing Electrum at your own Electrum server connected to your own node.

Okay how do I set up my own node for Electrum desktop wallet to be used alongside my hardware Ledger Nano S?

Pmalek

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Quote from: satscraper on January 01, 2024, 04:29:31 AM

Ledger Live gathers the whole bunch of data which threatens your privacy and being connected (on default) to company's server sends collected stuff to their analytics.

Thus connecting it to your own node (like Bitcoin Core) ensures those data will never leave your computer. The instruction on setting up the LL - Bitcoin Core working tandem can be found here.

I can't prove it and don't have the skills to interpret code, but I am pretty sure that the moment you create your crypto accounts using Ledger Live (and that's the only way you can do it), Ledger will have enough data on you to know and track what your addresses are. Thus, they can also see your balance in the future, with or without you querying everything through your own node.

o_e_l_e_o

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If you are using a Ledger Nano with Electrum, then there are three things to consider:

1 - You don't need to worry about the tracking features in Ledger Live while you are not using Ledger Live. However, at some point you must have used Ledger Live in order to initialize your device, and you may use it again in the future to either update your device or install different apps.

2 - You don't know what (if any) tracking software is embedded in the Ledger Nano itself, since it is closed source.

3 - If you are using a third party server with your Electrum client, then that server will see all your addresses and transactions. You should ideally be pointing Electrum at your own Electrum server connected to your own node.

Thomas29

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Okay so I use a Ledger Nano S hardware wallet with Electrum usually. Would I even benefit from worrying about this?
?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: satscraper on January 01, 2024, 08:49:24 AM

I have said that those collected data "will never leave your computer" which means LL proceeds with data gathering but fails in feeding Ledger's server with those data if connectivity is established between LL and Bitcoin Core rather than between LL and company's server.

Or you think they can be exposed to Ledger sever even in this case.

If yes, prove.

A bitcoin node does not have the capability to receive information on what Ledger Live version you are using, which parts of the software you click on, which pages you visit, and so on. This telemetry is sent to Ledger separately to the connection to their node to sync your wallets.

If you look at some of the information posted from the original user who discovered this tracking (such as here, here, or here), you'll see plenty of code phoning home to various web addresses, URLs, API endpoints, etc. Connecting to your own node does nothing to stop any of this from happening.

satscraper

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 01, 2024, 06:39:26 AM

Quote from: satscraper on January 01, 2024, 04:29:31 AM

Thus connecting it to your own node (like Bitcoin Core) ensures those data will never leave your computer.

That's not accurate. Connecting to your own node does mean you won't be querying Ledger's nodes for your transactions and balances, but Ledger Live still collects a whole ton of other information and phones that home to Ledger entirely separately.

I have said that those collected data "will never leave your computer" which means LL proceeds with data gathering but fails in feeding Ledger's server with those data if connectivity is established between LL and Bitcoin Core rather than between LL and company's server.

Or you think they can be exposed to Ledger sever even in this case.

If yes, prove.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on January 01, 2024, 06:39:26 AM

The best option here is to not use a Ledger device at all. The best way to use a Ledger device (other than through an entirely airgapped computer) will be with non-Ledger Live software such as Electrum or Sparrow, which in turn is connected to your own node.

Agreed, having Passpor2, I don't use Ledger.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: satscraper on January 01, 2024, 04:29:31 AM

Thus connecting it to your own node (like Bitcoin Core) ensures those data will never leave your computer.

That's not accurate. Connecting to your own node does mean you won't be querying Ledger's nodes for your transactions and balances, but Ledger Live still collects a whole ton of other information and phones that home to Ledger entirely separately.

The best option here is to not use a Ledger device at all. The best way to use a Ledger device (other than through an entirely airgapped computer) will be with non-Ledger Live software such as Electrum or Sparrow, which in turn is connected to your own node.

satscraper

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Quote from: Thomas29 on January 01, 2024, 01:37:10 AM

I'm not clear at all what this does other than help a bit with privacy and or anonymity to set up a full Bitcoin node so I don't have to trust my information to come from Ledger Live from what little I do understand is that's basically what it does changes the source of information for Bitcoin to the source?

Ledger Live gathers the whole bunch of data which threatens your privacy and being connected (on default) to company's server sends collected stuff to their analytics.

Thus connecting it to your own node (like Bitcoin Core) ensures those data will never leave your computer. The instruction on setting up the LL - Bitcoin Core working tandem can be found here.

Thomas29

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I'm not clear at all what this does other than help a bit with privacy and or anonymity to set up a full Bitcoin node so I don't have to trust my information to come from Ledger Live from what little I do understand is that's basically what it does changes the source of information for Bitcoin to the source?

Topic: I can't find the file to let me connect a Bitcoin Full Node for Ledger Live App? (Read 193 times)