Topic: I found insight into the bitcoin market I want to share with you all (Read 1389 times)
September 28, 2011, 04:08:31 AM
You call it the manipulator, i call it the chicken-and-egg-problem because of the low market cap. at the moment you 'just' need 500.000 US$ / 100.000 BTC to bring the market in the direction you want. If you finish (best over several days buying/selling) the market runs further in the direction you went. For 'the market' this situation is like lottery or black/red roulette. 6 month ago the same was already possible with 50.000 US$. today the market cap is bigger, so the guy needs more money. thats the good message. the bad is until we'r not at a market cap to absorb 1-5 Mio Trades 'bitcoin trading' remains a 50% lottery for all 1.000 US$ - 100.000 US$ Traders with very high fees compared with stocks. Since 10th of sept. we're 'dancing on the 4.75 - 6 cliff line'
September 28, 2011, 02:05:48 AM
Why not skip all the trouble and just ask mtgox to increase your limits?
Beat me to the punch. You can provide secondary ID like a passport and you can withdraw a lot more than $10k.
Second, any talk of 'the manipulator' as a real entity (beyond a joke) is pure tomfuckery. Every day, stock brokers make mistakes that cost their clientele a month's worth of trading on Mt. Gox. The money tied up in bitcoin is some fucking frat boy's trust fund.
September 28, 2011, 12:21:50 AM
You are all forgetting the withdraw limits. MtGox and similar have 100BC a day (bitcoin7 has 50BC a day and I think one has 500BC a day). MtGox and most have $1000 a day with $10,000 max a month
Let's say you have 20,000 bitcoins that you want to sell right now and you don't care how low the price goes.
1) You make accounts with each trading site.
2) You make a dwolla account and confirm it to your bank account.
3) You transfer in enough coins to make it worth $1000 without going over, which at most prices is 180 coins.
4) Then you sell on each site.
5) Then you withdraw the coins.
6) Then you withdraw dwolla to your bank account.
Okay now you got more coins.
7) Change your IP address. This takes 2 minutes.
Repeat step 1. Do step 2 but with a fake name and phone # and a different bank account (keep your real first and last name). Do steps 3-6.
9) Repeat step 7 and 8 about ten more times to get 20,000 coins sold and transferred out. You might run out of bank accounts so you will either have to open new ones or wait till the next day and likely you will just end up waiting.
The result is it takes a long time so no one is going to sell 20,000 at once to cash out for use.
Let's say you have 20,000 bitcoins that you want to sell right now and you don't care how low the price goes.
1) You make accounts with each trading site.
2) You make a dwolla account and confirm it to your bank account.
3) You transfer in enough coins to make it worth $1000 without going over, which at most prices is 180 coins.
4) Then you sell on each site.
5) Then you withdraw the coins.
6) Then you withdraw dwolla to your bank account.
Okay now you got more coins.
7) Change your IP address. This takes 2 minutes.
Repeat step 1. Do step 2 but with a fake name and phone # and a different bank account (keep your real first and last name). Do steps 3-6.9) Repeat step 7 and 8 about ten more times to get 20,000 coins sold and transferred out. You might run out of bank accounts so you will either have to open new ones or wait till the next day and likely you will just end up waiting.
The result is it takes a long time so no one is going to sell 20,000 at once to cash out for use.
Why not skip all the trouble and just ask mtgox to increase your limits?
September 27, 2011, 04:23:00 PM
You are all forgetting the withdraw limits. MtGox and similar have 100BC a day (bitcoin7 has 50BC a day and I think one has 500BC a day). MtGox and most have $1000 a day with $10,000 max a month
Let's say you have 20,000 bitcoins that you want to sell right now and you don't care how low the price goes.
1) You make accounts with each trading site.
2) You make a dwolla account and confirm it to your bank account.
3) You transfer in enough coins to make it worth $1000 without going over, which at most prices is 180 coins.
4) Then you sell on each site.
5) Then you withdraw the coins.
6) Then you withdraw dwolla to your bank account.
Okay now you got more coins.
7) Change your IP address. This takes 2 minutes.
8) Repeat step 1. Do step 2 but with a fake name and phone # and a different bank account (keep your real first and last name). Do steps 3-6.
9) Repeat step 7 and 8 about ten more times to get 20,000 coins sold and transferred out. You might run out of bank accounts so you will either have to open new ones or wait till the next day and likely you will just end up waiting.
The result is it takes a long time so no one is going to sell 20,000 at once to cash out for use.
Let's say you have 20,000 bitcoins that you want to sell right now and you don't care how low the price goes.
1) You make accounts with each trading site.
2) You make a dwolla account and confirm it to your bank account.
3) You transfer in enough coins to make it worth $1000 without going over, which at most prices is 180 coins.
4) Then you sell on each site.
5) Then you withdraw the coins.
6) Then you withdraw dwolla to your bank account.
Okay now you got more coins.
7) Change your IP address. This takes 2 minutes.
8) Repeat step 1. Do step 2 but with a fake name and phone # and a different bank account (keep your real first and last name). Do steps 3-6.
9) Repeat step 7 and 8 about ten more times to get 20,000 coins sold and transferred out. You might run out of bank accounts so you will either have to open new ones or wait till the next day and likely you will just end up waiting.
The result is it takes a long time so no one is going to sell 20,000 at once to cash out for use.
September 27, 2011, 03:00:16 PM
You ("manipulator") sells or buys 10,000 coins to then create thousand orders of "100 coins max" for several weeks? Yeah right that's how people do it. Why not trade 100K coins right away moving the market to a completely new price where "bots" will stablizie it? This theory is very silly, sorry. And the attempt to look for a mysterious "manipulator" is silly as well - there are many traders of various sizes, most with several hundred coins, some with thousands, some move the market 1-2%, some 10-20%, but it's all similar trades, there's no real mystery behind it.
If you want to sell lots of coins, you do it slowly while the market is high. If you want to buy lots of coins you do it slowly while the market is low. You don't put in a big order to move the price till you get them at your ideal price.
September 27, 2011, 02:52:27 PM
You ("manipulator") sells or buys 10,000 coins to then create thousand orders of "100 coins max" for several weeks? Yeah right that's how people do it. Why not trade 100K coins right away moving the market to a completely new price where "bots" will stablizie it? This theory is very silly, sorry. And the attempt to look for a mysterious "manipulator" is silly as well - there are many traders of various sizes, most with several hundred coins, some with thousands, some move the market 1-2%, some 10-20%, but it's all similar trades, there's no real mystery behind it.
September 27, 2011, 02:17:49 PM
It's not the typical market influence. It's something with the bots, how they worship any change in price no matter what it is. The price is set it seems by large orders on MtGox and then the bots that follow them, not by real demand.
Step 1: The Manipulator buys or sells 10,000 coins.
Step 2: Everyone fixates on the changed price despite that it's too low or too high.
Step 3: Price stagnates while The Manipulator buys or sells 100,000 coins (yes 10x as much) at the new price.
Step 4: The Manipulator is done so he returns to step one.
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!
Step 1: The Manipulator buys or sells 10,000 coins.
Step 2: Everyone fixates on the changed price despite that it's too low or too high.
Step 3: Price stagnates while The Manipulator buys or sells 100,000 coins (yes 10x as much) at the new price.
Step 4: The Manipulator is done so he returns to step one.
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!
September 27, 2011, 02:17:12 PM
This is new somehow?
September 27, 2011, 02:16:22 PM
Large orders influence markets. Film at 11.
September 27, 2011, 02:09:56 PM
Whenever someone does a big buy or sell or like 10,000 coins or more, the price moves. And then to matter if it's overpriced or underpriced, all the bots gather around it like it's the word of God. And then as long as nobody buys or sells too much at once (like 100 coins max at once) then it will just stagnate there forever. When done on MtGox, then all the other exchanges copy your trend. Plus some speculators will flock around your new trend pushing it further in the direction you want.
So all you have to do to manipulate the market is just a huge buy or sell and watch the bots and speculators flock treat your new price like the standard. Then you can pick away at slowly buying or selling your coins off.
So all you have to do to manipulate the market is just a huge buy or sell and watch the bots and speculators flock treat your new price like the standard. Then you can pick away at slowly buying or selling your coins off.
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