Topic: I got it all wrong from the beginning (Read 347 times)

Mostly some apps have a watermark on their front. When people use it they don't want to come the watermark on their front. So, they just download a crack for it, and when they download a crack for it, it requires their email or some malware that simply hacks their laptop, their mobile phone, or any other device they are using. In this way, most of the users are being scammed, and their wallet passwords which are stored in their email stolen.

The wallets are not different, it's the same wallet replicated across multiple devices or software thanks to its seed or private keys. Your coins are never in any of the wallets you use. The wallets only store keys. These keys are digital in nature, so you can import and export them elsewhere. You can replicate the keys to your house multiple times, but they still unlock that one door where you live and not different houses.

Nothing, obviously, I forgot the details, but it was like only my 3rd month learning about crypto, so yeah, I was pretty stupid back then.



Yeah, I did a hard reset on the phone, because my mom want to use that, so I all the app is gone on the old phone.

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Seems like I need to clarify that this event happened like 3-4 years ago, and it's like my 3rd month learning about crypto.

Misunderstandings among beginners are common. In fact, I personally used to be one of those people who also misunderstood crypto wallets. Even worse, I used to think that saving on a centralized exchange and in my personal wallet was equally safe. Only after I learned everything did I start to understand the real concept. And then I started using my personal wallet and of course I also copied my Mnemonic Phrases onto paper. I avoid saving mnemonic phrases in a file on the computer. I prefer to copy them manually by handwriting on paper. I feel it is much safer.

If the wallet does not give us private key, then it is not our wallet. Regardless whether it is an open source or closed source.  Without any private key we do not have 100% access to our coins. I greatly agree that we must avoid using these kinds of wallet because  these kinds of wallet can forbid us to access our coins once the creator of the wallet decided to commit a rug pull. It is the same with the saying "not your keys not your coins"

I am sorry about your sad experience, although it happened years ago but it is something sad to remember. Everyone has their version of stories to tell. This industry is wide and also technical, it takes consistency to be accustomed to the happenings here.
Do you care to know what I and my friend did before I corrected it. My friend had the feelings that his Trust wallet seed phrase is leaked. I downloaded another wallet for him and still imported same seed phrase into the new wallet, still maintaining the Trust wallet seed phrase. Can you imagine how naive?

It is not recommended, to store some of the important information inside the app lock, particularly a private key and wallet address. What if many of your pals have access to your phone and know all of your passwords? Not all of your friends are trustworthy. What do you believe will occur? They will measure that they  have access to your app, where you will keep all of the relevant information.Your wallet will eventually be empty since their next goal will be to figure out how to acquire access to it.

I didn't know you could just put your seed phrase in any wallet. So you can have one seed phrase for different wallets?

But I feel this is not too safe. Isn't this somehow like having the same password for different accounts on your phone?
If somebody succeeds in getting one of your passwords then they have access to several of your accounts.
If whoever is trying to hack you or steal from you somehow gets the seed phrase to one wallet, they have access to all your wallets.

But you could still use your IMToken wallet on your old phone, right? You wouldn't automatically lose all your tokens just because you bought a new phone, even if you didn't save your private key or seed phrase.  Just fire up that old phone, and you're back in business. unless, of course, your old phone is lost or destroyed and you can no longer use it.

What did you think would happen once you changed phones? I have heard of ImToken but don't know anything about the wallet. I am guessing it's non-custodial. While you were setting it up, you were surely given instructions to back up the seed or private keys, and it's not an account-based custodial service. By switching to a new phone, you have to re-enter and import certain information to gain access to your coins. If it's not an account protected by an email and password (which ImToken probably never asked you about), the only identifiable information is the one displayed to you during the setup stage. 

I believe you are correct that writing it down and secure it is much better than saving it online because I have seen many people who save many of their private keys online and after changing their phone lost their phone it affects them, many people save it on their Gmail and sometimes they forget the Gmail password, and some people save it in there phone and after they lost their phone or changed it they will forget it. And as you well know, humans have a tendency to forget things because we cannot keep everything in our heads because doing so would be excessive. Therefore, it is best to write down important information and save it safely.


Even last week, I came across at least two individuals who misplaced their private key and are currently without access to it due to changing phones. They both have tokens to receive in some bounties they completed in the near future, which is the most painful aspect of it. I did not lose the private key, but I can still feel the pain because losing something important from your wallet is painful. This incident also affected some people who were knowledgeable about cryptocurrencies. I would also like you to know that nobody is perfect and that everyone makes mistakes in life. What we should remember is that mistakes are part of life and what we should do is to inspire them to maintain their security, which I think will benefit even some beginners.

Well, we are a bit different because I keep my wallet information safe and sound and untill now, I haven't lost it or getting compromised. There might be a reason why you did it but in my case, I was told to keep it safe and secured because if someone gas access to it then that person will have access to the wallet and may be able to steal your funds. If that happens then better solution is to create a new wallet and abandon the old one for safety and your funds will no longer be stolen unless it is compromised too.

You are correct!
Although i am replying based on what op said, naturally you and i knows that any wallet without private key or seedphrase is only on a watch or monitoring, but for op to be able to have access to his wallet again if actually his phone got stolen he could have copied out his private keys and seedphrase to other device so that he could be able to import them back with the private key or seedphrase to have full control of his wallet again. That was my point and nothing much.

OP's addressing a very common misconception that often is done by Newbie, I used to be like this too at my first time learning about crypto. I really thought that those app was where I store my Coin. I used to join multiple altcoins (erc-20) bounty campaign when the ICO boom happened, and I store all of my token in an app called IMToken, one day I buy a new phone and poof I lost all my tokens because I didn't save my private key/seed phrase.

This is how the wallet works you just tell how it works from what is wallet to how to use it. The wallet is just like something that you usually use in your pockets for saving and collecting money the same as the digital wallet works. This wallet is not hardware and you can't touch it but you can store your all digital current in this digital wallet the most important thing in the wallet is your seeds when you have your own seeds no one steals them The only defect is if you lose your seeds that whole asset in that account was prohibited and can assess your wallet just take the example of satoshi Nakamoto millions of bitcoin were placed in his wallet but no one can even know about it and now all that bitcoin is useless

Just a comment here: you should not be using any of that wallet software except Electrum. They have been suffering from security vulnerabilities and Atomic wallet even got hacked and people lost millions with no rationale given of what happened yet; https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/atomic-wallet-hacked-get-your-funds-out-now-5455045

Technically speaking, a wallet is consisted of the transaction labels as well, none of which is backed by a seed phrase.

Blockchain technology is mainly innovative because of the immutability it offers. Not some mnemonic standards.

It is still a wallet since it holds your funds and transaction history but the seed phrase is the most important component of a wallet. Also, I wouldn't advise you to store your assets in a wallet that you've imported the seed phrase on different wallet applications such as Electrum, Bluewallet, Trust wallet, it exposes you to a lot of dangers.

Losing your phone and importing the seed phrase in another device is no guarantee that your funds will  be intact. A thief can steal steal your funds, always add extra layer of security on your phone and wallet.

Storing seed phrase online is a risky way to safe keep and secure our funds as it can be
easily  hacked by an hacker attack. Keeping it written on a paper is a simple but convenient and secure way since it's offline all you got to do is to search for a safe place and keep the paper/booklet. While using paper we should also ensure that the ink we are using to write down our seed phrase is an indelible ink that won't fade off over time. Another alternate means to store private seed offline is by using the metallic steel carving in your seeds it's is sure to stand the test of time even over a hundred years owing that it's securely hidden.

I’m not sure what you really trying to prove here about the definition of wallet. All that you mention is technically functioning as a wallet since you can access your funds and manage it once you import your private key or seed phrases. Also you generate your seed phrase on one of this wallet and you can just use it on different wallet since they are just using same path to connect on blockchain.

Private key and seed phrase is by definition your keys to your wallet which holds asset on the blockchain. You can’t access your crypto assets on the blockchain without importing keys to the wallet. Having the ability to import your keys on different wallet software doesn’t mean that they are not wallet.

We all took things as wrong at the start so no tension and accepted the new technologies I am glad that you are making efforts and learning the potential of decentralization and non-custodial wallets. Because those who will learn these basics things and how much benefit these features have for an individual then they will automatically start to accept the fact that banks are doing wrong to us.
They are using our assets for their own benefits and besides this, we all should follow a single statement that those who have the keys are the real owners of the tokens they have. This means if you are using a custodial wallet where you don't have to get the key instead you are just relying on some wallet and giving your funds to them and then you are taking risks just like holding your funds on centralized exchanges.

But there are some pros and cons to it. For example, if you are storing your funds on cexs then you are no longer the real owner of your own funds but if they get lost and the cex you have chosen is a reputed one then that cex will refund you like the Binance and others. But they also refuse to refund so do not rely on others while you have the facility to be your own manager of your assets. Be your own boss and owner of your own assets and never depend on others in the case of tokens.

You have started a good topic, it works as a piece of information for those who are not aware of this fact and a reminder for those who already know it. Well, both ways a good discussion it is, which most of the newbies don't question about. As they think they are storing their tokens on some drive or servers of the TW or any wallet.

The only thing that matters is you should consider a non-custodial wallet for your tokens or coins. Because "if you don't own the keys then you done to own the tokens or coins". Simple as that but if you chose the way of having seed phrase to yourself then you are the only person who will be responsible for the loss (if any happens) you will be keeping track of your keys and must make sure that it did not fall into the wrong hands.

And if you choose a way of custodial wallet like of some exchange wallet where you don't have the chance if keep a key for yourself because they are the ones with keys. And they can lock or do whatever they want to do with your tokens. How scary is that?

But many repeated exchanges have built enough trust among users that people don't even hesitate to store thousands of dollars on those exchanges.

In online works, security is very important, because If the phone you are using has been lost, if you have put a screen lock, a pattern or key lock then other users can't open it easily but if these security system hasn't been implemented then it would be difficult for the users to keep himself safe from the loss of his apps. So, there should be always some locks inside the mobile phone like fingerprint on every app, whether that includes your wallets which you are using and this also includes the YouTube channel information if someone has any. So, all this information would be safe.

But the seed phrase you have imported should also be saved on a USB, or in your laptop, and should be at least in three places. For example, if you lost your mobile phone and your laptop got dead, then it will be present in your USB. I hope you understand!

Take note it's a bad security practice if you import the seed phrase into a different wallet software.
Sample if you generated a seed phrase from Coinomi it's not advisable to import it into Trustwallet, Electrum, or any wallet. That's a bad habit if you keep continue to do this you just make your wallet exposed to more potential security risks and privacy leaks.

Always remember that the security of your wallet is your responsibility and always follow the best practices to avoid potential risks.

Just one thing to add to what you said. You are probably talking about generating seeds/private keys and importing those in 3rd-party wallets because importing addresses won't get you anywhere as your coins will be non-spendable without the private keys. Bitcoin Core doesn't support the import of seeds. You can only import private keys into this software.

While doing so make sure you don’t fall into the risk of embedding them into app locks because most people use this app locks to password their applications like wallet and it is very risky because this third party locks can have access to things on the app that one wouldn’t be aware of.


Read the replies above, even if it is your phone, it is a bad culture to be importing your seed phrase or keys on different devices, it creates redundancy to that seed and should any of the phone or device get caught with malwares that get your seeds them been even on other phones will be exposed. Develop the culture of storing them offline or in single device and then use watch only wallets on the others if need be


It is actually hard to extract private key from some closed source wallets except maybe you use the mnemonic seed to extract it from ioncoleman but there are some that can actually gives one the private keys. But the biggest thing in avoiding closed source wallets is the fact that you can even be able to see the source code and most of them make changes unknowingly to the users. One can’t even find out how is keys were generated or even maybe they have back door to store it. Closed source wallet should be definitely avoided

Too many risks with crypto wallet OP, the idea of having to type in your recovery seed into a new wallet using your keyboard scares me, this is why I still have some love to paper wallet, they are offline and there is no fu*k up from wallet softwares or some stupid back door happening, even the hardware wallets can get messed up from the manufacturer through updates.

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It's risky to be in crypto honesty, but it's just too risky to be out of Bitcoin, I consider learning everything to limit that risk so I suggest you do the same thing too.

Don't go around doing stupid thing on your phone, make sure you import recovery seed into a phone that's brand new, because old phones are unsafe, you never know the type of person that used the phone last.

Avoid stupid keyboards on play store, they might have access to every words you type on the phone and that includes you improving your recovery seed into your crypto wallet, better stick with OEM keyboard.

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I am used to creating wallet offline and the day it goes online is the day I am ready to sell everything in that wallet, I monitor using my public address only, it's safer for your crypto wallet to be offline than online.

It is not an option to produce, but if the wallet does not give you a private key, it is most likely closed source and therefore you cannot trust it. Avoid using any closed source wallet, it is not well audited and there is no option to extract the private key.
As mentioned above, to enhance the security of your account, try to reduce exposure of seeds to the Internet or include them in other wallets.

I advise you to learn the basics by reading the book “Mastering Bitcoin”^[1] or watching Andreas’^[2] videos.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook
[2] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJWCJCWOxBYSi5DhCieLOLQ

it best practice to always lock your important apps with password or finger print. Also ensure all security setup on the wallet is activated. This will secure your wallet from intruders if the phone get loss. If you have private key without a high security measure, the new holder of the phone can enter your wallet and transfer your asset.

Securing your is the most important. Login to your wallet on different phones is not too idea, if you will do that, make sure it's your phone, else you stand the risk of been hacked.

Keep note: if you generating an address from Trust wallet aka not secure because of closed source and you generate it through online, you can't expect it's already safe when you import it to secure wallet e.g. Bluewallet, Electrum, Bitcoin Core etc. This is because the closed source in Trust wallet make everyone don't know what they do with the customers' address.

So the best way is generating address in a secure wallet and use it in a secure wallet too.

A wallet without its private keys is just a watch-only wallet that you can't do much with. If there are no private keys, there is no signing and broadcasting transactions from that phone. And if you can't do that, then the whole mobile wallet losses its point.

If you said they are wallet it shows your private keys can be manipulated that is, its through those app you can generate your private key and without any of them you can't generate keys and seedphrase to have your public address. So alternatively you can call them wallet as the name implies but someone to say that aren't wallet then you are trying to complicate issues among those who doesn't have a deeper revelation on how they are being configured and operated. Yes there is nothing argue about all you said, technically they are correct but analytically the noob needs to follow due processes to understanding more better.

But however you need to keep your keys and seedphrase out of your phone to another device or flash drive maybe to your system, and before your phone to get misplaced or stolen you needs a solid password otherwise if your phone isn't in security lock then there are every probability that someone can use your phone to transfer all your assets if your phone is without a good security locked.

If you lose your phone, someone might gain access to it, penetrate a weak wall of security, and get to your wallet and keys. You shouldn't recommend to people to keep using the same wallets that a 3rd-party somewhere might be trying to get into.

But even if you are the only person in possession of the keys, it's still not the best way to use the same seed across multiple wallets and devices. Why? If one of those wallets gets hacked, it's as if all your wallets got hacked because they share the same seed/keys. If one wallet turns out to have weak RNG or malicious developers who backdoor it or make it vulnerable, it's as if all your wallets are like that. Ultimately, you lose your coins. It's better to spread them out among wallets generated by trusted software/hardware on safe devices. 

Which is exactly why continuing to use a wallet whose keys are left on a phone you lost and someone else stole potentially weakens your security and makes you vulnerable to theft.

You seem don't understand importance of mnemonic seed, private key and risk when you import your private key or mnemonic seed.

When you do it, do it offline.

When you are considering to import your wallet mnemonic seed to a website, a wallet software, you must know you are leaking it to a third party if that website or wallet software has back doors.

I advise you don't import your wallet mnemonic seed to any wallet software if you want to do it to have an experience or to satisfy your curiosity. It's risky.

Technically a "wallet" file contains your keys (public or public and private), addresses, transaction history and unspent transaction outputs (aka coins).
Your seed phrase is the "master" key that would create all your keys, this is why the only thing you need to backup is that phrase and you can recover it using any wallet software that supports the algorithm; but you still have to create a wallet to get all your keys and transactions and sync to be able to know your balance and spend.

Technically what we discuss here is jut a key derivation function and KDFs existed before bitcoin and blockchain technology.
This technology is revolutionary for many reasons such as being able to create decentralized money.

Yes thats how it worked actually. As long as you have the seed phrase kept somewehere else besides the phone you used then you can always plug in that on new device and check your wallet. Sometimes having it written on a piece of paper and securing it is much better than save it somewhere online. Thats a back up plan that everyone must be accustomed too.

LOL I've been wondering for a long that the app I have on my phone is my wallet and all that. I had no idea that I had misunderstood this. Let me now explain what I recently learned about your wallet.
Let's start with the fundamentals of wallets for people who are new to this area.
 
It's not a wallet in the conventional sense, whether it's Metamask, Electrum, MEW, Trust, Coinomi, Atomic, or any other program you consider a wallet.

Actually, you can use these wallet software to securely maintain and access your cryptocurrencies, NFTs, and other blockchain assets.

Your private key or seed phrase is what makes up your wallet.

For illustration:

It provides the option to produce a seed phrase or private key when you install Metamask.
Other programs like Trust, MEW, and Atomic may all access your ETH if you use the same seed phrase across them all.
Therefore, the next time you download a wallet app, you won't need to create a new seed phrase; instead, you can import the one you already have to manage your current funds across different apps.

It's important to know that seed words are incredibly versatile and let you manage assets on any platform.

Your phone was lost?

No issue. Get a new one, put your seed phrase in whichever wallet you choose to install, and then. Because no other entity has access to your information, it cannot be hacked or copied.

Blockchain technology is so revolutionary because of this.

It's also important to stress that you should never give someone your private keys. The only access point to your blockchain assets is through your keys, which ensures their security.