I hate hardware wallet being made eye-catching.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 28, 2020, 08:03:28 AM

It would certainly solve the "not obviously a hardware wallet" issue, but eBay tells me that original Game Boys in good condition are going for up to $100, so it doesn't really solve the "don't steal this because it isn't worth anything" issue.

But it solve OP concern, which is hardware wallet have eye-catching/unique design.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 28, 2020, 08:03:28 AM

I'm now also picturing some ridiculous scenarios where you design it so you can only unlock the wallet if you do a certain task in game, like go to a certain location and use a specific item, or make a specific pattern in Tetris or something, haha.

You would need to have access to source code of the game (where you modify and compile it). The good news is there are many open-source game than i expected (https://archive.org/details/gamesourcecode & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_available_source_code), so your scenario is more realistic that you expect.

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Quote from: btcb3g1nn3r on December 28, 2020, 12:19:23 PM

I would like to have a design like a digital picture frame: keep a slideshow with family pictures or single picture, use that display when doing crypto transactions

Sometimes the best hidden things are in plain sight Cheesy

Your thought is good. But don't post the method on internet if you are actually going to use it.
I post my cold store method just bcz I was about to abandon it and I have changed to another methods.
When I said remote control like hw wallet, it actually means I would never use it(or just use it as a bait) but seeking others that may blend into env.

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I would like to have a design like a digital picture frame: keep a slideshow with family pictures or single picture, use that display when doing crypto transactions

Sometimes the best hidden things are in plain sight Cheesy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

It should be possible since few people already tried it (https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gameboy-plus-raspberry-pi-equals-arcade-machine/), they even made a guide about it at https://imgur.com/a/jyjmG

Wow. I am officially impressed. Cheesy

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 28, 2020, 08:03:28 AM

but eBay tells me that original Game Boys in good condition are going for up to $100, so it doesn't really solve the "don't steal this because it isn't worth anything" issue.

Probably that won't be a big issue. Most probably the thieves will come targeted and will look for Bitcoin stuff, not an old Gameboy, unless they want to play with it.
And even if they do so, it will take them a while to figure out it's a hardware wallet and how to start it up, time that should be enough for the owner to move the funds safely away.

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It would be big challenge to make Bitcoin wallet software which work on old device. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Advance#Technical_specifications, it has 16.78 MHz processor & 256KB RAM.

Yeah, I wasn't envisaging making a Game Boy run wallet software, but rather putting a Raspberry Pi inside an Game Boy case. It's possible to link up the Game Boy's cartridge reader to the Pi's USB port, and I see in your link you shared in your next post that those people linked up the cartridge reader to the SD card port. Since it will all be running off the Raspberry Pi, then there would be no need for a physical switch like NeuroticFish has suggested, and simply keying in the correct button combination could launch the wallet. The wallet could either be stored on the Pi itself and accessible even without a cartridge connected, or you could store different wallets on different cartridges. It would certainly solve the "not obviously a hardware wallet" issue, but eBay tells me that original Game Boys in good condition are going for up to $100, so it doesn't really solve the "don't steal this because it isn't worth anything" issue.

I'm now also picturing some ridiculous scenarios where you design it so you can only unlock the wallet if you do a certain task in game, like go to a certain location and use a specific item, or make a specific pattern in Tetris or something, haha.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

But it's different case if we only use the gameboy case & replace the hardware with RPi 0.

Or there may be a way to put in both hardware and have somewhere a switch between the 2 "worlds" (to boot as gameboy or hardware wallet).
It may be easier to implement for the compatibility with the cartridges, but then the (good!) idea about hidden key combination may not work.

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Quote from: stompix on December 27, 2020, 03:56:23 AM

As ranochigo said, in order to make the device blend in you must also put it close to others or out in the open, and that's where the juice, dog mistaking it for its toy, kid playing around accidents happen.

Not really. I have a small box filled with spare USB cables, USB drives, SD cards, some spare headphones, etc. kept on the top shelf of a cupboard. Just miscellaneous electronic junk. Another nondescript USB drive thrown in there will attract no attention from anyone, it isn't an attractive target for thieves since the resell value of the entire box is probably around $20, and it is out of the reach of kids, pets, and other accidents. If a thief looks in the box then there is nothing to attract attention, and if a thief steals the entire box they couldn't access the coins anyway since the USB drive is encrypted. Conversely, if a thief looks in the box and sees and recognizes a hardware wallet, then I have just made myself a target for further thefts or physical coercion.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on December 25, 2020, 09:09:54 AM

Another candidate may be a Gameboy, where actual games can be there to indeed hide the actual use of the device.

I'm now picturing different wallets stored on different game cartridges, encrypted in hidden volumes, and you have to enter a specific button combination like a cheat code to unlock them.

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Quote from: ranochigo on December 25, 2020, 03:52:47 AM

Quote from: Saltius on December 25, 2020, 03:48:41 AM

I myself prefer, say, a remote control looking hardware wallet with a TV/air conditioner which it can actually control.
Then nobody would doubt it is just a controller.

Until one day, your wife throws the remote control away or your kids dunk it in their orange juice Wink

.

Despite of being shiny or not, it would still get thrown or dunked when misfortune comes upon.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on December 25, 2020, 09:09:54 AM

I have a Nano S and it looks almost like an USB stick.
Trezor looks somewhat like the remote control for the garage (?)

The remote controls usually have too many buttons, even those for A/C. Another candidate may be a Gameboy, where actual games can be there to indeed hide the actual use of the device.
Would such device get more users? I kinda doubt it, but it's up to HW producers figure it out if it worth it (if you propose that to them).

So now some devices look somewhat close to existing electronics, while others not at all. If that matters to you, buy accordingly.

Bravo for a Gameboy. Of coz a gameboy should have a screen no one doubts.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 26, 2020, 12:20:27 PM

Quote from: Saltius on December 25, 2020, 03:48:41 AM

They should not have unique lookings and should not be easily distinguished from other electrical devices.

All hardware wallets are going to have a unique look to them. If you want something that is indistinguishable from a USB drive or other generic hardware, then use such generic hardware. It won't be as convenient as a hardware wallet, but it can be just as safe, if not safer, provided you set it up and use it correctly. An encrypted USB drive which you can use to boot to a live OS and interact with your wallet in an airgapped environment. An encrypted airgapped old laptop, or if you need something even more portable, Raspberry Pi or mobile device. There are multiple non-hardware wallet options.

That is why I still use a used cellphone as cold storage. I put many old used cellphones together in a drawer without a lock. Just a phone tomb if you ask my family members.
I did have considered buying a unique looking hw wallet with half a coin put inside to work as a bait.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 27, 2020, 03:10:57 AM

Well, isn't that the whole point behind not wanting them to have a unique and recognizable design? If a thief doesn't know what a hardware wallet is, then they just look like a slightly unusual USB stick, key fob, remote control, etc., and are unlikely to attract any great attention.

As ranochigo said, in order to make the device blend in you must also put it close to others or out in the open, and that's where the juice, dog mistaking it for its toy, kid playing around accidents happen. But if you avoid this and you put it in your safe I doubt (although thieves have shown to be pretty stupid sometimes) someone who breaks in it will think this is just a remote or a useless USB stick that has nothing of importance on it.
So you will need a place where to blend in as nothing special but at the same time a place safe enough to avoid daily house accidents or incidents Grin

While I agree that having a device with "Bitcoin storage" with golden 1-inch letters all over it's a bad idea at a certain point and more importantly the value held in it the design will lose a lot of its importance in preventing theft.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on December 25, 2020, 09:09:54 AM

Trezor looks somewhat like the remote control for the garage (?)

To me, it looks a lot like the old glucometers we were using, two buttons, a small display, and quite rugged compared to other small devices I've encountered.
My remotes for the gates at home and the arms barriers at work are far simpler than it.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on December 26, 2020, 03:14:56 PM

Good point, but how likely that random thieve who will come to your home will be knowledgeable to know it? Offcourse unless you're victim of targeted attack.

Well, isn't that the whole point behind not wanting them to have a unique and recognizable design? If a thief doesn't know what a hardware wallet is, then they just look like a slightly unusual USB stick, key fob, remote control, etc., and are unlikely to attract any great attention. If a thief knows what a hardware wallet is, then these devices are all instantly recognizable, and the thief can then choose to A) ignore it, B) steal it and attempt to break in to it later such as is possible with Trezor devices, or C) physically coerce you in to handing over your coins.

If, as I said above, you had your wallets instead stored on an encrypted USB drive (for example), then a thief will never know what is stored on that drive. Bonus points if you create a hidden volume so you can decrypt the drive to reveal a bunch of non-crypto related "sensitive" data.

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Does hardware wallets really have eye-catching design? I don't think so. Ledger basically looks like simple USB flash. Trezor also doesn't looks like some fancy thing - it looks like some kind of controller. And as said above, you can buy case for hardware wallet to hide it. Finally, even if someone will rob you, it's not end of the world as long as you have recovery seed, thieves will only get device.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 26, 2020, 12:20:27 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 25, 2020, 01:28:08 PM

As long as the thieves don't know your seed phrase and codes, they shouldn't be able to access your coins.

This is not true for Trezor devices, and any other hardware wallets which are based on Trezor devices (such as the KeepKey). A knowledgeable attacker can, with physical access to the device for around 10 minutes and less than $100 worth of hardware, extract the seed phrase and therefore steal all coins which are not further protected by a passphrase.

Good point, but how likely that random thieve who will come to your home will be knowledgeable to know it? Offcourse unless you're victim of targeted attack.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on December 25, 2020, 01:28:08 PM

As long as the thieves don't know your seed phrase and codes, they shouldn't be able to access your coins.

This is not true for Trezor devices, and any other hardware wallets which are based on Trezor devices (such as the KeepKey). A knowledgeable attacker can, with physical access to the device for around 10 minutes and less than $100 worth of hardware, extract the seed phrase and therefore steal all coins which are not further protected by a passphrase.

Quote from: Saltius on December 25, 2020, 03:48:41 AM

They should not have unique lookings and should not be easily distinguished from other electrical devices.

All hardware wallets are going to have a unique look to them. If you want something that is indistinguishable from a USB drive or other generic hardware, then use such generic hardware. It won't be as convenient as a hardware wallet, but it can be just as safe, if not safer, provided you set it up and use it correctly. An encrypted USB drive which you can use to boot to a live OS and interact with your wallet in an airgapped environment. An encrypted airgapped old laptop, or if you need something even more portable, Raspberry Pi or mobile device. There are multiple non-hardware wallet options.

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So let 'em steal your device. As long as the thieves don't know your seed phrase and codes, they shouldn't be able to access your coins.

Amazon sells some kind of Ledger-mounting device meant to conceal it under a table if I'm not mistaken, and Ledgers are small enough that they can be hidden pretty much anywhere.

Quote from: ranochigo on December 25, 2020, 03:52:47 AM

Until one day, your wife throws the remote control away or your kids dunk it in their orange juice Wink

.

So true, and it would be weird for a thief to find a remote control locked up in your safe. But honestly, unless you're storing a bunch of altcoins, I'd just go with a paper wallet. There are so many ways you can disguise a seed phrase or some other form of your private keys; it's really only limited by your imagination.

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You can use some services that redesign your wallet so that it looks different. It gives you some molds that you put the wallet in. These molds may be a cup of tea, a part of the table or a small book.

Some services hide your wallet and your wallet seed in paintings or some artistic frames so that it becomes impossible to imagine that these drawings are your key.

ready cases are sold for 15$

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Quote from: Saltius on December 25, 2020, 03:48:41 AM

They should not have unique lookings and should not be easily distinguished from other electrical devices.

I have a Nano S and it looks almost like an USB stick.
Trezor looks somewhat like the remote control for the garage (?)

The remote controls usually have too many buttons, even those for A/C. Another candidate may be a Gameboy, where actual games can be there to indeed hide the actual use of the device.
Would such device get more users? I kinda doubt it, but it's up to HW producers figure it out if it worth it (if you propose that to them).

So now some devices look somewhat close to existing electronics, while others not at all. If that matters to you, buy accordingly.

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I think hardware wallets should be made small enough to fit on keychains, where the rest of your keys to your house/car/other places are. You wouldn't dare misplace or lose your keychain so keeping the hw wallet in that place is safe.

I think the Trezor is small enough to fit in one is it? Despite not having any holes for it.

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Quote from: Saltius on December 25, 2020, 03:48:41 AM

I myself prefer, say, a remote control looking hardware wallet with a TV/air conditioner which it can actually control.
Then nobody would doubt it is just a controller.

Until one day, your wife throws the remote control away or your kids dunk it in their orange juice Wink

.

I think it'll be cool to have hardware wallets which can blend into the surroundings. I doubt that'll ever happen, the demand for that is fairly low given how everyone seeks in a HW wallet is it's user interface and the appearance is secondary. You could possibly prevent this from happening by buying a case for it and hide your "presumably" small hardware wallet inside some sleeves.

HW wallets can get bulky depending on what you're looking at.

Saltius

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They should not have unique lookings and should not be easily distinguished from other electrical devices.

I don't think it cool but shouting rob me or confiscate my coins to others instead.

I myself prefer, say, a remote control looking hardware wallet with a TV/air conditioner which it can actually control.
Then nobody would doubt it is just a controller.

Topic: I hate hardware wallet being made eye-catching. (Read 264 times)