Topic: I have $40,000 to invest (Read 4653 times)

Hi,
As current volatility in bitcoin market and exchanges, it is actually not a good time to trade in bitcoin! Due to the high charges as compared to forex market or commodities, maybe another 5 times of current daily trading volumes only will view as a profitable chances to jump in! Just for reference!


Cheers

Investing can be fun! Have you thought about trading in altcoins? I have been and it's kept me entertained seeing the prices go up

I use Vircurex and have this Referral Code that gives you 10% off fees + extras if you want to give it a go:

Referral Code: 534-2017

More info:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/does-anyone-need-a-vircurex-referral-code-10-off-fees-287997

thanks to everyone. I have decided to just invest in the coin and not worry about mining. it seems to be falling now so I might wait a few weeks. hopefully i can pick it up at $100/each.

If you want to dabble in mining hardware then bitfury 55nm products for Oct delivery = easy decision. Ignore all the 28nm magical unicorn powered ASIC hype until someone actually makes a real live tangible product AND ships it...hold the vapors. Even then, do not be drawn into a long lead time order queue, these are ROI meat grinders with massive risk and little associated upside at this point.

Exchange some fiat for bitcoin and then exchange some bitcoin for litecoin. Something along the lines of a 90/10 BTC/LTC split. Ignore all the other alts.

Then if you're really feeling adventurous down the road and have done mass quantities of research you can deploy some portion of your cryptos and invest in a few established crypto securities. If you do this last then do so in an absolutely sterile emotionless fashion(or as near as you can manage). This is the unregulated wild west and there are people all over that attempt to cause large price swings just to shake out weak hands and increase their profits at others' expense.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

If you want to buy a miner and can't get immediate delivery -- or close to it.

I would recommend using the money as a down payment on a cottage or a boat.

If it were me I would split it evenly between mining hardware and buying BTC.

I would put in a range of buy orders for BTC of ~15,000 when the market seems to be plunging and buy the rest in LTC.For any BTC ASIC,I would wait until one of the .28 nm ASIC companies to deliver on one of their products first and if it is successful invest in their upcoming generation.

I think by the end of the year we might be looking at devices closing in on well over 200 terahash next year.

Hi Man,
I love your quotes! And I love what you can see in the future! Most people here seems not really love in bitcoin, what they are thinking is just a quick getting rich schemes in a very short time! If so many experts that find ROI is so difficult to archieves, why they are still so donk to invest so much money to build farm or data centre? Invest in a business and hoping 6 months to ROI, it's got to be kidding! That's call quick get rich schemes or ponzi, not investment in a long term business!


Cheers!

Don't mine.


Use it all to buy BTC.

Invest those btc in bonds with a guaranteed yield like Xbond, ukyo.loan, and great.loan all of which pay 18.5% APY. Invest in coinlenders too although I consider that more risky.

Um not many people in the US pay that much for power.  Most people fall into the 0.11 to 0.14 category.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

If you're tempted about trying trading, since the majority of traders lose on the long run I would put 70-90% of my holding on several papers wallet that I wouldn't touch. Maybe you could also invest some on https://www.havelockinvestments.com the platform I trust the most.

Invest by betting on Satishi Dice 
Just kidding!

You could buy and hold a chunk of BTC, and also try some BTC market trading? Would probably get a better return that mining in the long run.

Heh, I agree. cypherdoc kind've spilt the beans a bit that they're prepping to trigger the MPP. John S. hasn't mentioned anything official yet. Something about HashFast being able to do it because they went: small?  

So in the near term, bare rigs with cheap high quality chips could be a winner with HF & CT most liking having to trigger their MPP...which is why it looks like me & several other miners are chipping in to help Barntech to do some bare rigs that just need chips from HashFast and Cointerra. I have this dastardly plan where we offload the customer service and education stuff to us so he can focus on getting product out the door faster instead of answering questions, handling sales, refunds, basic tech support, etc..

Anyone else interested in helping out please let us know. We've got a handful of vetted members so far willing to help out Barntech in whatever way we can help:

You can also leave your first reservations on that thread. We're aiming for speed to market w/ the best quality parts as soon as tech specs/schematics are available.

Thirdly, Barntech was talking about a $650 32GH/s unit also being a possibility, if that's interesting as well please leave your comments and/or reservations on this thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/first-avail-reserv-cthf-bare-rig-gb-bitmine-28nm-chip-buy-discussion-288101

TL;DR: If a HashFast or Cointerra bare rig, and/or $650 32GH/s sound interesting, please let Barntech & other system builders know in the thread link above.

Those companies can make and ship a million units a day, but as the difficulty get's higher, there could be zero return on investment in all time frames. The only way to counter the observed increase rate in difficulty is progressively cheaper & more efficient equipment and/or much higher bitcoin price. Avalon and Asicminer are among the least efficient asic equipment out there (BFL and BitFury both ship and have better efficiency). With a more conservative monthly difficulty increase of 60% (it's averaging 70% now) and bitcoin valued at $250 (double the current price) you would STILL be making a losing investment in both Avalon and Asicminer for at least the next year with no hope for ROI. If you plan to break even in one year due to bitcoin increasing, then you should just buy bitcoin instead of turning your wheels to catch up with your ass.

If you can't get some serious leveraged deals, then the best thing is to hold bitcoin for now, imo.

As for respect of bitcoin enthusiasts, that has zero bearing on the wisdom of an investment.

Thanks, we are in the first 350 orders. I guess if I were the OP, I would go with Cointerra or Xcrowd. Although I haven't really been keeping up with the "politics" of them. Don't know if they're delayed or what's up. Cointerra seems promising.

both those companies showed they can make hardware faster than other companies

no one knows the btc price so it's always a gamble with ROI

no one talks about a damn timeframe when they mention ROI. it's like everyone expects to get their month back in 6 months; that's ridiculous. If you only plan to fuck with btc for 6 months, you don't get much respect from the veterans here.

You got a deal that is no longer available to the person that started this thread. All HashFast pre-order spots are filled. Your deal includes a ROI guarantee that could provide you with 400% more hashing power. I don't think this guarantee will come with subsequent orders.

My partner and I invested 70k in HashFast

Can you justify recommending to order either avalon or asicminer hardware at this time? What would be the time to ROI for either hardware even if received today?

Test your idea here:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

What a fantastic community; all these guys jumping in to help

My advice/opinion would be to buy btc mainly; its been sideways for a while it's about time to have a good sustained rally

but diversification is best; so maybe use 10k to buy some mining equipment from one of the best producers, avalon or asicminer, and the rest just purchase btc

oh and this should be in the 'mining support' section:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=40.0

40K USD on hand. You better invest on Scrypt mining instead of SHA256 mining.

I think, the amount is enough to build the Oil fish's oil (Mineral oil or Vegetable oil) array.

Each being should be executed with many 7970s.

If unsure, You may invest on the given company, Perhaps you should discuss this with cloudhashing as 1 Thash/s may come reasonable. I think.

2015?  There are more than 5PH(est closer to 8PH) of current pre-orders that are supposed to be delivered by the end of 2013.

If you're speaking of Butterfly labs mini-rig, then absolutely no. The only mining hardware worth looking at right now is BitFury 55nm hardware and 28nm hardware (my choice would be Cointerra). That said, what you can do is this: Order Bitfury or Cointerra hardware now. When you receive it, then sell it immediately. You will most likely be able to mark it up 50% and find a buyer pretty fast. You could also mine with it, but reselling for a profit isn't a losing path.

Other than that, then just buy bitcoin. It should go up eventually as bitcoin is more adopted widely (i.e. more demand for bitcoin builds).

A third option to evaluate is to put some funds to work in a mining operations (like Lab Rat Mining) [disclosure: I have an interest in Lab Rat Mining] and receive dividends on company "shares" or "bonds" from the company doing the mining for you. And if the company does well, you can resell those "shares" or "bonds" at a higher price, but of course it carries risk like any other investment. I've been following Lab Rat Mining pretty closely, and it looks to have decent potential in it's start-up phase, so far.

Yes I would agree, Activemining is going to be a big company and shares are cheeap right now

Heres a bunch of info!


News:
http://www.easic.com/vmc-uses-easic-to-achieve-24-756-ths-bitcoin-miner/
http://www.coindesk.com/vmc-closes-deal-for-28nm-asic-chips-in-24-5-thsec-miners/
http://thegenesisblock.com/easic-announces-24-ths-hash-fast-miner-activemining-shares-move-70/

Official Threads:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/activemining-the-official-active-mining-discussion-thread-252531
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/activemining-overview-and-speculation-thread-254930

Shares:
https://btct.co/security/ACTIVEMINING
https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

editzeditzeditz

For 2015   I estimate hash rate to hit over 5000TH/s

If you are gonna invest... you need to partner with a bulk asic deal or get someone to build an asic / fpga farm for you.

I started early 2013....I am just starting to make ROI.   Expect to be in debt 3 times longer than calculations predict or invest in BTC very wisely.

Buy one singe usb erupter from Canary.  You can run it and look at the blinky-light.

Take the rest and buy BTC.

Reasoning: There are LOTS of big pockets funding "mining operations" and lots of players potentially bringing hardware in Q4 2013 and Q1 2014. 

Why not invest instead in a mining company?

Thats what im doing atm

I would get some shares from ActM

https://bitfunder.com/asset/ActiveMining

Check the last PR from eAsic

http://www.easic.com/vmc-uses-easic-to-achieve-24-756-ths-bitcoin-miner/

Active Mining FAQ:

http://www.activeminingbtc.com/

Buy and hold.

Please reread my suggestion. BFL was not my first choice for the OP.

I found your problem.

Just buy coins and trade them for profit. Mining is not worth it anymore. I have a few usb erupters to keep things going but they won't produce much with the diff increases. Any mining gear you buy now will take some time to get and will be mining at a fraction of the expected output when you actually receive it. Trade between BTC,LTC, and USD. Good luck.

Look, mining isn't just an "investment", you would be purchasing equipment that you are responsible for and have to run to make a profit.  The only way around this is to pay for hosting somewhere.  In this case, the hosting company would keep your hardware on site, connect it to a pool on your behalf, and pay out to your wallet.  Take a look at KnC, you will find the fees though are actually quite expensive.  You may never actually get an ROI on your investment because difficulty is increasing at a rate of 110% per month right now, rapidly diminishing returns that can't really outlast the cost of expensive hosting.

You do have other options, you can buy BTC, or you can even invest in BTC businesses.  My business partner and I are working on two projects right now.  We have purchased our own mining equipment and identified a commercial location with electric rates at .04/kwh.  This is significantly less than the average .15 to .18 that most americans pay, and in the EU rates can exceed .30/kwh.  We are planning out a data center for a hosting service on this location.  Our rates would be considerably less than most hosting services given that we can pass on the savings to our clients.

The other business involves a billpay service.  The company is CoinChex LLC, site is under development.  I'm spreading my risk all around and investing in multiple aspects of the bitcoin economy.  This is probably the best way to generate ROI and reduce your risk.

I would buy coins at this point.  Hold them and wait until Generation 3 comes out and see how the profitability is.  Anything under .07/Kwh is getting into the lower tier of power.  I personally pay .02/Kwh but I had to build a data-center to take advantage of it.

Good point but I wouldn't recommend BFL neither. I would recommend not mining at all for now unless the main goal is not achieving a positive ROI. It's way less risky to simply buy bitcoins and hold.

For someone who is just getting into BTC mining, I would not recommend anyone who has not already delivered. Has Cointerra delivered anything in the past? I say this for the same reason I'm not recommending KNC, even tho I don't think KNC is a fraud/scam.

I don't think KNC has showed working prototype to-date, but they have less than 30 days to deliver first batches of units - Good luck. Amen.

You forgot: http://cointerra.com/shop

I would probably order from them instead of BFL Monarch. In fact, I would never order from BFL.

There are many places you can buy ASICs: BFL, KNC, BitFury, ASICMiner, Avalon clones, and maybe a few others I'm not sure are scams or not.

There are 4 big factors: Price, Speed, Power Consumption, and Lead Time. Each manufacturer has their own pros and cons.

ASICMiner has the absolute lowest lead time, but their prices, speed, and power requirements are pretty crappy. BFL's Monarch is the opposite: it has great price, speed, and power efficiency, but the lead time is a bitch.

I know BitFury is now shipping, and customers are mining away with their devices. I don't think KNC has delivered anything to-date.

If I were choosing, I would go with BitFury, or if you feel like taking a risk, go with Monarchs.

Hi,
Maybe your type on investment are in more conservatives type! If for myself with 40k available to invest and I can take the risk, why don't I invest in multiple ways instead of only a way to success! What you suggest is buy now and wait for another 4-6 months only making decision to jump in mining or not? So after 4-6 months, will all the manufacturer stop saturated with pre order machine? So if it is the result going on same, so there is no point to jump in anymore by that time because you have late for another 4-6 months!

Another point, we can't envy someone to start earlier mining, we can only blame ourself why we are so late to know the market of Bitcoin! So the earlier miner gets all mining gear earlier on pre order? They are still the same just keep upgrading the machinery instead of only waiting the pre order to arrive!

I only can says, if I gonna invest in this time, I will not only purchase in pre order and wait them to arrive, I will go 2 way by purchase pre order and current shipping machinery to start building a farm if I can see a good market future in Bitcoin!

Remember, TIME is the most important in the world that money can't buy and of course it won't wait you! Waiting is just let the chances slips away from you! When you only use basic calculation instead of taking some risk or gamble, you are not the only 1 in the world who can use basic calculation for ROI! If there is a risk, there are hidden opportunities!

No offense, just my silly point of view!


Cheers!

The mining equipment market is very saturated with pre-orders at the moment, and the prices today are virtually guaranteed not to make a positive RoI in comparision to buying and holding BTC.  I'd suggest you buy BTC for now and watch the mining equipment manufacturers for the next 4-6 months and see which ones excel and which ones fall to the wayside.  Buying equipment at this moment in time means you are gambling that you can get it fast enough to benefit you.  The downside to this is all of the other people who have invested as much or more than you that have been happily mining away from the last several weeks to several months or will soon be happily mining away on their delivered pre-orders.

Some of the 'potential' miners that may or may not become available in the future are down under $10/GH.  In 6 months time, when this insane growth has tapered off and only something like quantum computing could cause a repeat, would be the time to evaluate what is available and whether the cost vs return is more worthwhile than holding the BTC you invested in.  The current trending indicates you may need $1-3/GH(or less) to be profitable.

Do not buy now is the best advice to follow.

Hi,
IMO, let's get back to some true stories before we hop in either trying to mine or buying bitcoin as an investment!
Firstly, Bitcoin price is hovering around USD 130 per pieces by now! Since I have noted that you have written a post saying how many kWh suggestions if BItcoin hovering around USD 100? So if you thinking the price will only about there, what makes you a decision of only buying instead of mining it all by yourself? You are buying at USD 130 when you think the price will go at USD 100 only, it only brings mean that you are burning money slowly and not sort of investing!

Secondly, with a 40k of investment, since we called it investment and it should be a long term instead of touch and go! Yes indeed mining difficulty is keep rising and miner gets not that fast and not that much anymore! But 1 fact is the machine that you invest in are yet to stop and it is still continue generating a small income to you although not that much anymore!

Third and last, investing using only buying instead of mining only give you one way instead of multiple chances to reach your target! Lets get back some basic decision making! What makes you a strength in your heart to buy Bitcoin? Of course you see the market potential in Bitcoin makes you to purchase it and keep as investment! So if this makes you to do a decision to buy, then why don't you let it keep generating instead of only that amount in your wallet? Isn't it mining is more multiple way and buying is only a one way ticket?


Just in my opinion and I am not a financial advisor!


Cheers

Hey folks.

I understand that the first people to get the best miners can make a lot of profit, but as more competition comes on to the market, obviously difficulty goes up and the hardware depreciates/captures a smaller piece of the pie. On the flipside, theres probably not many average bitcoin loving joes who bother to mine, and even less who have the required capital to buy the best miners.

Therefore is it worth it to just buy the best and take a gamble that no better miners will be released?

Depends on what your goals are really.

Mining is quickly becoming a serious game with serious capital involved. If you are wanting to invest $40k into mining gear, you would be moving far past mining as a hobby. Bitcoin mining is going pro quickly, but can still enter easily with something as simple as a Erupter USB as long as you don't care too much about ROI and are doing it just because it is cool and want to support the network, as every little bit helps. The ROI issue will likely level out but not for some time in a period of explosive growth, so doing the math is very important if you want to see a profit.

I would say start small and see how it grows on you with some Erupter USBs or other lower cost options. Diversity in your portfolio is recommended as it is impossible to tell ultimately where it all goes from here. Buy some coins, securities (or start a securities fund), mining gear, or use your funds to start a Bitcoin accepting business of some kind. In my case I am doing all of those things in the form of BlockBurner  

You could do split it 3 ways: BTC, a Cointerra IV at $14K, and maybe a couple of KnCs, BitFurys or a HashFast since they have the best Miner Protection Program. You'd be hedging your bets on some of the strongest ASIC mfgs. IMO while still holding BTC long term.

I'm not an investment adviser, of course, and I can't tell you what to do with your money but: Your best returns may come from just buying & holding BTC with the way the net. difficulty is going at the moment.

You will most likely get a lower ROI if you try mining. I would buy bitcoins and hold. Maybe read and learn more while using dollar cost averaging method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging

P.S. What is the ideal price for electricity per kw/Hour to run this profitable if we assume bitcoin price hovers around $100?

Hey folks, I have a spare $40k

I want to know if its worth it to buy a mining rig and if so, what should I buy and how do I run it?

Or is it better just to put the cash into bitcoins and just sit on them for a few years?

I want to try mining just for fun, but am a complete noob.

Someone please enlighten me.

Note, this is cash that I can afford to lose, but obviously I'm looking for a profit