Topic: I would like to address my negative trust feedback and apologise (Read 622 times)

I'm afraid it's not that simple. As @devans pointed out, they were aware of the fact that much of the source code and scripts were copied from bustabit v1. And it was evident, even from the front end, that a good part of the content was plagiarized from the Bustabit website. However, it's their actions after being exposed that make them untrustworthy and deserve condemnation. They denied the allegations, fabricated lies, and changed the content on the website and removed their Github in an attempt to conceal the truth, rather than admitting, apologizing, and paying the license to the original developer.

It could be as simple as them hiring a coder to make their website therefore them funding the project. Maybe they have no idea what the coder is doing as they are looking at the final product (website) and are unaware of the other details.

If that is what happened they are not suited to operate a website such as crash because they will be reliant on the coder and would be open to being scammed by any and all that have access to the server.

Coin selection means selecting which inputs to use for a certain output. It's a great way to improve privacy. You can't just use this as a buzz word and then say you mean you also use altcoins.

I'm very curious what "sophisticated coin selection algorithm" you're using. It really sounds like you're just using buzz words, so it would be great if you can back it up.

Are you saying you hired someone to write your text, and they copied it from somewhere else? If so, did you report them to the "official website" you hired them from?

Sort of. In principle publishing source code in itself doesn't grant any rights to use it yet. But bustabit v1 is released under the AGPLv3, a common open source license. That means that anyone can use it for free–even commercially–as long as they abide by the terms of the license. Mainly that means publishing your fork of the source code under the same license. Casinos only need to purchase a paid license from bustabit if they want to use the code without making it open source under the AGPLv3 themselves.

Arguably the biggest issue here isn't even plagiarizing bustadice's website–which has never been open source for what it's worth–using the verifier code without permission or potentially pirating back end code from bustabit v1. None of those are mistakes that 8bethub couldn't have come back from had they owned it, apologized and actually fixed the issues. But denying allegations even when they are obviously true for everyone to see and gaslighting anyone that points it out is a huge red flag IMO.

Thank you for creating the screenshot compilation, by the way. I hadn't even realized the plagiarism went so deep and assumed it was mainly just the landing page.

I hope devans can make a comment here to clarify the situation

Once the source code is out there is allows anybody to use it but the conditions or licences come in different formats. If I recall correctly v2 was not being made available for sale by devans.

The difference between open source code and free software is still a mystery to many people. Even if the code is open source, you still need to respect the license. Unfortunately, even some developers ignore this as well.

But nevertheless, it is clear from these screenshots that there was plagiarism involved. Even the layout appears to be a copy with slight changes. That is never a good start for a business.

My understanding it it's open source, so anyone can use it.  But if you want to run your own site with it, you need to pay for a license - otherwise you're stealing it.

What you said is spot on and very hard to take a differing view based on what has been posted thus far.

The amount of effort and finances it would have taken for the website to have been started could most probably and easily have been better spent by making a website similar to Bustabit without copying.

Has an accusation been made against the OP for stealing the crash code? I was under the impression v1 of the Bustabit code was (and is) open source whereas v2 was never for open source but was available to sell. Does anybody have any information on this?

If they really put good time and effort into starting a project why would they be so stupid and lazy to ruin it all by not fixing these mistakes?

Even just the effort to clone something, don’t you think it would be worth the effort not to screw it up like this?

Lazy lazy lazy
Even for a fast exit scam.. Come on, you can do better..

Well it is not looking good for them, they cannot deny they have not at least in part copied the Bustabit website text and layout.

They continue to deny they are using the Bustabit source code for the crash game citing it has been modified but they really have not done themselves any favours by creating an apology thread yet still not fully accepting they (or their developers/coders) have messed up.

That makes it very hard for them to build a reputation and for them to be taken seriously.

Oh ok, guess just a lot of coincidences and you didn't just pick a different bootstrap template and change a few words here and there.  Apologies.  

bustadice "Next Generation Dice" | 8bethub "Next-Gen Dice game"




And I'm sure the back end is 100% original  

You may have missed the fact that @devans already tagged their account and commented on this a month ago.




Why do you think bustabit should check the case again? Although the casino can continue to operate and build their reputation from here, it doesn't change the fact that they started out in an unethical manner. It should serve as a learning experience for everyone involved and a reminder that reputation matters a great deal, and you don't want to screw it up. Especially if you're just starting out.

You calling us a clone is unfair and deluded, whatever you think, there was hard work put into this, our platform is not merely a clone.

Yes, if anyone has the time and can check this exact path, please do. The website is a dice casino too! The registration, login, chat window are nothing like bustadice. Those things you mentioned just are not true, but if others would like to check and give their input, that would be great.

You can check it for yourself.

Go to Bustadice. Register account, look around.
Go to 8bethub.  Register account, look around.

The registration window, the chat, the game play, the layout ...8bethub is just a clone of bustadice and they're claiming it's all original.

Isn't it important what bustabit has to say here?

I would want bustabit bustadice team to check the case again. We can not be sure that their intention was bad. It's obvious that they were lazy but that does not prove the wrong intention. If a business wants to establish their brand in the community then help them. We will not know a scam until it happens. I think we became too proactive to us and not considering us that we are becoming isolated from the world.

I did say that that was the case, and the closeness almost exactness in the text is not permissible. We got that and are simply trying to make it better. No one on our side is the victim when we have come here, admitted to the mistakes and improved on them. And no, the codes are not used anymore, many martingale scripts as such can be used on our platform, but we did not just delete, as it would defeat the point

Agreed, if I was to use any of the actual backend no? And no, the github repo is not being used anymore at all, not only hidden.

And also, FWIW, just because OP made all of his repos private/deleted them, doesn't mean he's not still using the code without paying for a license.  Which, appears to be the case.


This is the part that makes it worse not better: "simply close in meaning, not exactly the same at all. I meant something totally different too".  

You didn't mean something different, you just copied them.  It's obvious, why try to say otherwise?

Stop doing those things that make it worse I guess.  Acting like you're a victim here is one of them.

Fair enough. Although FWIW just because code is on github doesn't imply you can use it for what ever you want, you still need to follow the license

But the code was the scripts on github buddy, that was all, no other code was taken and our backend is completely different. I never actually left it unseen, sadly, I was not told abnout the situation on this forum since few days ago, when I followed this up as the person in charge here clearly did not do a great job. But that is my bad for choosing my team wrongly. Again, mistakes on the homepage are totally punishable, clearly there was word-by-word but in the heat of the launch, I did not believe that the person in charge would copy to the letter, which I am sorry for, but I also find it hard to deal with this as apart from improving, apologising and trying to display transparency, I am able to offer anything, just so maybe we are understood. The team members at fault were dealt with too, and I made it my priority to deal with this whilst improving the platfrom with your feedback, which yes, I should have done way earlier.

And that is indeed elements on the homepage, text elements like I said. How can I improve and get better if every single action I take it seems to be making it worse not better mate? Should I just leave it unspoken about? Me and my team made a mistake, I dealt with it and fixed it, as you can see, that section is not even there anymore. The designer used the words literally, when I said to take bustadice, which I am a fan of, as inspiration. It was my mistake for allowing it, but I am trying to make it better

 The reality is you did pirate code without permission and outright plagiarized website copy even when it contained claims that were obviously not true. I only left my negative feedback, because instead of immediately apologizing you ignored the issue and acted like it wasn't real -- which is not exactly confidence inspiring behavior.

That said, I'm not trying to be a copyright police either, nor is it my intention to try punish you either. And not to drive too fine of a point on it, but the industry is now full of dozens of competitors who actually have an impeccable multi-year history.

You're making things worse, not better.

I know that plagiarism, even little, or even if chanced or removed, it is in the end still plagiarism. But what I am trying to get across is that the only parts that were in this discussione were some text elements on the homepage, that were simply close in meaning, not exactly the same at all. I meant something totally different too, which I did explain, however, I did remove that in order to try show that I will improve the platform. And about the code, nothing was plagiarised from bustadice's code at all, the gitbhub repos should have never been used either, and I did makje sure to get this point across to my team by removing the person who thought it would have been a good idea. That is why I am taking this here, as althought his post was valid, there was some sort of misunderstanding too, and I cleared that, improved on that too I hope.

I disagree. Don't you think it's fair to warn the community if you, for example, find a project with a plagiarized whitepaper or fake team members, or a casino with a plagiarized content and an unlicensed script?


It's a matter of opinion. You are free to exclude the mentioned DT members from your trust list if you don't agree with their opinion.


I suggest you read the OP's post again, and also the trust feedback left on his profile.

Of course you are right, and it was my mistake, however Daniel gave me the red tag instantly after leaving a comment on my thread, and I did email him immediately after from my company email, but I never got a reply. I did email the bustadice mail, maybe that is why. Yeah, thank you for that, it is what I am trying to do, to improve the casino so that I can offer the best services, hopefully with that, trust and a new chance will come too.

I remember this case back then. The mistake you made was to keep in denial about some issues until you got the negative feedback. Had you acted proactively in removing all the copied content or even contacting the owners of bustadice about permission to use the code, maybe things could have gone differently.

Right now, the only people who can remove the negative feedback are those that left it to your profile. Some forgive, others don't.
I don't know if you had apologized to them right after the incident, but if you did, and they didn't respond. Then you are going to have to focus on your casino and give them time to see if they can have a change in their opinion about your business in the future.

I would be more than happy for them to have a look, maybe even contact me privately personally, so that I can prove that none of their work is being used anymore, or at any point did we try to be seen under such bad light on here. However, it was me and my team's own doing, which I had some removed and improved I hope, as the website is now changed and made better, I am happy to be supporting bustadice, as a previous player myself, credits should be given to them, however I did make sure to remove related stuff, until I get any of their permission or even attention here.

Also, I am happy to have some people test my platform.

Absolutely correct! It's crazy how some DT just give out neg tag at any slice chance, and if Bustadice has no problem with other start-up casinos using some of their content, I don't see why some random internet users who aren't related to Bustadice would take matters into their own hands. The site has yet to defraud anyone, and no withdrawal issues have been reported.

The red is excessive; he admitted his mistakes and made amends; I hope the DT reconsiders and gives him another chance. Everyone is deserving of it. Cheers!

Edit;
@devans what do you think? ( Bustadice admin)

If bustadice does not have any problem then I do not see anyone else should have any problem.

I have not read all the posts from the reference thread but I feel this is too harsh to justify a project, before giving them a chance to defend. If we continue labeling new projects are scam then projects that are looking to build their brand around the community they will eventually lose interest from the forum. I hope we are not isolating us.

The members are free to leave whatever feedback they want but I think a neutral should be more than fine in the case.

Negative feedback is used for high risk of losing money and to warn other users if an user has a potential to become a scammer. When you're create a casino and blatantly copying other casinos content without any permission, it's a red flag and worth to warn other users due to unprofessional you're. If you think replacing the contents with the original one and ask apologize are enough, you're wrong.

I'd think it should be removed when there's many users already played and have an experience on your casino, this mean you're already proving you're not a scammer.

And this is very fair, the only thing is we have not used their source code, that is what I was saying, not one bit of their backend was used. To automate playing on such casinos, you can use a written code such as martingale, which my developer used, this is also found online free to access, and that is what was briefly used, however, we understand they were not okay with it, and changed it immediately.

This isn't true, bustadice doesn't give license to their source code. Without any license it only means the source code is available and usually it's interpreted as all rights reserved. But even with license, usually there are few limitation and obligation. Here's snippet from GitHub documentation,

Where a few reputable members are asked to deposit, make a one-time wager, and try the withdrawal option, as well as give honest reviews about the site, and get paid for test running the site in order to build trust here. I sent you a link.

Precisely my point, I get it, because we got inspired by some very little design aspects, i admired their work, nothing was copied 100%, not even half. But fair, I have taken all of that down, now the website has 0 plagiarism, I also understand I should have had nothing from the start, but in my opinion it did not! In their, they thought it did and out of respect I took it down, and publicly apologised.

The casino is totally legitimate, there is deposits, withdrawals, from IP addresses around the world, I would really not be able to fake this, I have all of this as proof. Not a single withdrawal issue or deposit being missing. Sure! the backend is totally fully ours. Again, I should have not even used anything similar, or the github similarity, it is all done, it was a mistake that will not happen again. I listen to every feedback, nothing was stolen, copied or faked or anything else. Their permission should have been asked for from the start even for the little elements we got inspired from, which I am at fault and coming here transparent to say.


Also. what does this honest review campaign consist of if you dont mind expanding a bit, I would like to know.

From my own little language of code and GitHub, I believe all open source code is free to use by anyone. Isn't that correct?

The main issue I expected to see was withdrawal issues and not a few texts copied, so I'll ask again! Is this casino being accused of fraud?

I noticed that every script on the sites is visible to everyone; however, I was unable to read the code; could someone with code knowledge at the very least check it out?

@8bethub I always recommend that new casinos run a week-long honest review campaign to test the site. It could have saved you a lot of trouble. However, it is not too late.

Ok so we are going to dismiss the fact there is proof, on an official website where I hired this person and I am working with, all chatting being done on there. You cannot think that as the negative comments were all taken off, there is very little to nothing left of the homepage, which was the page they had problems with. We operate only on the play page! I have proof to back everything i said, all changes, all transactions, proof of deposits even etc.

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It is not about all this money buddy, there is no need to buy a license from bustabit, as we are not a crash website. Why buy it from bustadice since we copied nothing either, or are they the dice-casino license owners? Did they patent it? You are right, if i did pay them i would save a lot of headache, but apart from the github scripts (aka the martingale code for example, that is online available to use) nothing was used from their code

If you had all this money to pay a developer and players and whatever else, why not just spend a little more and buy the license from bustadice/bustabit owner? You would have saved yourself a lot of headache by doing so.

eh, if only I had a dollar for every time I heard a scenario like this. You pay someone for a job, but he did the plagiarism trick on you.
I've been looking at your site and I think all the negative reviews are spot on. better try to give all the answers about your illegal casino, though I doubt you're offering anything substantial.

after all that's been said, I'm getting closer to red-tagging you.

Well buddy I understand you are trying to understand the situation, but you are wrong in some ways. There is no software needed, I hired an experience website developer with vast experience in blockchain coding as he created other crash and dice casinos before mine. I can of course prove this, I paid him quite well for the job. The website is authentic and fully ours. Yet no, as this was me purely apologising, we did not steal, copy or take anything, those people i mentioned are unhappy with the fact that we had similarities. I brought this here as a gesture of goodwill, and removed everything they had said, not because I scammed anyone, or copied, i simply listened to them and wanted to make everyone happy!

Can you prove that here, to show your license or anything?


I don't it's enough to say you're sorry and your unprofessional and dishonorable behavior should be forgotten. all scammers say that, after removing the stolen articles or code.
you only recognized the problem after it was pointed out to you, and that is the basis of the problem. you simply showed yourself to be a person who has no sense if he does something dishonorable.
you did not convince me with your pathetic letter, sort everything out first, then ask for forgiveness. But you are very far from that.

Hi there, i am the owner of 8bethub.com

We started off on the wrong foot, as our gambling platform was put through some tough criticism which most was accepted, and worked upon. I would like to take this opportunity to address our negative trust feedback and try show you guys how we have sorted it out, and that we are not a scammy casino at all.

I will start in order, with @RHavar 's feedback: "Running a pirated casino, which makes it impossible to trust (e.g. in their announcement claims "We use a sophisticated coin selection algorithm tailored to 8bethub" which is just some text they copied from bustadice without going through the effort of making their own coin selection etc. etc. "

I understood his point and agreed to him being upset about it, however, what we meant in the description of our website, although sounded similar, had a different meaning as we work differently to bustadice, and offer more coins to play with, hence why the words being used, I understand they meant something different, but so did we. We are not a scammy pirated casino at all, and we have had a dozen of people come from here and trust us with deposits, from which we gave withdrawals too.

To fix this, we have eliminated the similar homepage from 8bethub and now we are fully working based on the play page only, whilst we create our very own design.

Secondly, @devans ' comment: "In addition to obviously plagiarizing large parts of bustadice.com, 8bethub is also using bustadice's code without its permission. "

This links to the above, as the part we got inspired from them was totally removed, all text that was any similar, also removed. The codes he is referring to were the scripts on github, also removed and we are working hard to make our own scripts. However, the backend to our site is fully ours, completely different, as you know how hard it is to copy a website's code entirely.

To fix this, we have removed all similarity in the mentioned parts above.

Lastly, @TwitchySeal said "Using someone else's work without their permission. Red flag. " which I hope we have covered by now and you may please check, here 8bethub.com as I am happy to work and change anything else you may have an issue with.

I sincerely apologise to have started like this, and would like to say I am myself an ex player of both bustabit and bustadice and I admire both platforms, to be seen by them, even in this negative manner was a wow moment for me, I am trying to prove that we deserve a second chance, and all feedback was as you can see taken in and worked upon.

I would like for those things to potentially be understood and the negative ratings removed so that we may continue here, starting fresh.