Topic: I would like to understand something basic about TREZOR (Read 956 times)

it is a wallet.
a wallet just stores the privkey.. EG paperwallet.
the misconception is the wallet need to be the program.. but a wallet, just like that leather thing in your back pocket just stores the access to funds.(privkeys)
a wallet is just not a LITENODE like electrum/multibit which is a program that communicates AND has a wallet.

did you know core 0.13.1 is a full NODE, yet doesnt have the segwit wallet enabled.
inshort this means it doesnt let users make segwit keys. thus while segwit is not yet 'on the network' people cannot accidently make a segwit transaction which is deemed 'anyonecanspend' at the moment. core will release a new node implementation 'when they are happy' after activation that does include a functional segwit wallet (inshort able store of segwit keys)

as many have said in the past. bitcoin wallets doesnt store funds, so 'wallet' is a bad buzzword anyway. it should have always been called (for analogy purposes).. a keyring, you know the hoop of metal which 'secures and keeps keys together'

if electrum is running within the linux environment, within the USB drive and nothing is required by your main computer to be installed then indeed you have made it more secure. just still watch out for anything getting downloaded to your usb stick, like an electrum update. (which could be a trojan risk to prompt you to type in/import your privkey)

though you may have other reasons to enable persistence. this feature can allow data on the drive to be added. its not like an ISO that stays fixed

TREZOR itself is not really a wallet as you know it from say electrum or multibit.

It is a device that stores the private key outisde of your computer in a way that the private key itself is never send outisde of the device. This way, even if there is malware on your pc, they will never have access to the private key.

In addition, there is a pin on the device with a scrambled keypad that changes every time, making software that tracks your screen unable to tell what your pin is.

I think TREZOR are perfect for people that want to safely store their coins on an online pc AND want the convenience of being able to spend them without too much hassle.

I don`t understand how TREZOR is more secure then all the other wallets.

I don`t trust startup companies too.

I can`t see any point in this.

What? Tails Linux is a live OS that can be booted only thru a USB thumb drive or a live DVD/CD. You can enable persistence as I did so that changes I did will not be erased. Using it is very easy and just like any Linux OS. The advantage is it is very secure because you do not store anything in your regular computer's HD that you use daily.

How does it sacrifice security? As long as you keep the USB safe and encrypt it with a password, no information can be leaked.
Electrum offers users with the backup seed and you can restore it if anything goes wrong.

There in lies the problem. The persistence volume sacrifice your security that Tails offers you. A normal Tails setup wipes everything after every session, but when you enable persistence, this
volume mounts with every session. The latest version of Tails have Electrum pre-installed, but only retains your wallet information, when you enable persistence. The other danger is when the
persistence volume corrupts... then the wallet is gone. Right.

The Trezor have ways to resotore the seed, when things goes wrong.  

Yeah. Trezor gets way more attention than it actually deserves. I wanted a hardware wallet, but instead of a trezor I got a ledger wallet which I feel is just as good as the trezor at a much lower price. If you really want a hardware wallet, I would buy a ledger.

I find it safe if you can store your paper wallet/private key in safe place and never store them in any computer that have internet access. Also to access those funds you can use any of the web wallets that have import address feature for example i use blockchain.info wallet > scan private key than just send those bitcoin wherever you want. But if you are looking to store 100BTC+ better take proper precautions.

Very creative, But can you tell us about the efficiency and accuracy of your hardware portfolio creation?(advantages and disadvantages for using it)
Because it will give motivate to someone for building his hardware wallet. It looks like a simple step. 

Sending Bitcoin from paper wallets is relatively easy and safe, as long as you created it in a safe environment and spent it safely. However, paper wallets are a one-time use thing and they should be discarded after the balance is spent.

Anyway, if you want an air-gapped wallet that is safe:
#1. Install and setup Electrum on an offline computer, remember to backup the seeds.
#2. Use the Electrum on your online computer to setup a watch-only wallet.
#3. You can make unsigned raw TX, save them into a thumbdrive, transfer to your offline computer to sign them.
#4. Transfer back to online computer to broadcast.

This is probably one of the most foolproof method to use.

restore? you mean something like spending it?
paper wallet is your private key(s) printed on a piece of paper either encrypted or not. and for using the coins (spending) you install any bitcoin wallet client that offers import feature and import those private keys if they are encrypted you enter your password to de-crypt them first and then you are good to go.

and this process is as safe as the environment you are doing it in. eg. a clean computer.

The restore process from a wallet paper, is it safe? or easy?

Can you write detail setup procedure for this or give link for full procedure? Sound really interesting.

I mostly use electrum for bigger transaction and blockchain mobile wallet for day to day small transaction. I have gone through fewer hardware wallet but using them seems quite confusing task. I find its better to print paper wallet in offline computer, laminate it and put it in stainless steel jar. Store it in safe place or hide it under your backyard.

I am now beginning to think my cheap home made "hardware wallet" is more secure than Trezor. I installed Tails Linux in a USB, enabled persistence and I am using an Electrum wallet that came preinstalled. All traffic goes thru Tor so it is good for anonymity and I never use it except as a Bitcoin wallet.

Finally someone gets the point. TREZOR is hyped all around the clock. Even if it were secure against any type of malware / phishing, you still have to rely on the startup company to continually provide services for it. That's a huge disadvantage and a significant risk if you're not an engineer yourself. What if your TREZOR stops working and there is no replacement from the manufacturer? What if TREZOR support is dropped from wallet software and service offerings by the company are discontinued?

That's why I think, buying a TREZOR makes no sense. It's expensive and provides inferior security compared to a simple paper wallet. A paper wallet needs no infrastructure and no services. It's also more resilient than a piece of electronic hardware. You can generate thousands different addresses if you want at minimal cost. Risk management is therefore a lot easier using paper wallets.

ya.ya.yo!

You do not even need to buy a hard wallet like Trezor. Using cold wallets is the best option, in my opinion. Use an online wallet like Coinbase or Blockchain for small transactions, receiving money or daily spending and when you want to save or put some money away, print out a cold wallet and send your sum to it.

Thank you for your expended explanation sir.

i agree although trezor is a hardware wallet. to get full functionality you need browser add-ons and connect via their server. (facepalm to obvious trojan/hack weakness via phishing sites and hijacked add-ons) though you can link it to other desktop wallets like multibit, etc. but still..

though trezor and other hardware wallets are one security 'step up' from the standard desktop installed software due to the privkeys/seeds not being stored on the computer the app/add-on is stored. and many steps up from just a webwallet...its still not perfect and still has points of weakness.

the two main desktop wallets that are compatible with trezor and can be deemed trusted are
electrum and multibit

advantages of trezor:
private key/seed held separately from computer. adding the layer of defense

disadvantages:
watch out for any desktop app/browser addin/page telling you there is an error and you need to type in your seed. be cautious to check its a real error and not a phishing attempt

a true hardware wallet should not connect to any middlemen service or require anything installed on a persons pc to function. hopefully future hardware wallets will be true independently and fully run from the USB hardware device, without risk of fake "error, please type in seed" phishing scams via trojans.(no requirement to download/use anything on pc/middleman webservice)

Hi Guys,

TREZOR is just another layer protection to your wallet, which in this case, to get a full functionality i need to open a wallet in TREZOR's website (startup company - I know with great reviews).

i won't get the full functionality with other compatible  wallets. So, basically, what's the point?  and which wallet is the most reliable in this moment who support TREZOR? been hurt by so many exit scams....I don't want to put my BTC into a startup company (with all of the respect).