Topic: IB TIMES: The Soaring Cryptocurrency Set To Surpass Bitcoin (Read 1196 times)
Yes, search forum for gbiachi thread (hope I spelled that right). He lined up the number of zero wallets with metcalfs law and it looked pretty legit to me.
Bitcoin is its own enigma. I intentionally withhold strong beliefs as to what its value should be as i think it is absent any real relative comparison. We do not really know where all of this goes. $10 would be more surprising than $10,000 but both are conceivable. That is rare in the universe.
The chart is really ugly here though. I am hoping it is a bear trap before the next leg up. Otherwise it would look like this if it were a bubble popping; with target sub 300. I am not betting that way just what a bubble pattern would project. I would hate to see that at this point, as we are very close to bridging mainstream.
One other concern, maybe, plot "bitcoin" in google trends and it is somewhat lagging hut useful indicator, probably a meta-metcalf law in the search rate of a network.
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
I don't think I this point that you really need to compare Vertcoin to Bitcoin. I think that what you need to consider is what the next best alternative to Litecoin is...
What I ponder now is valuation of bitcoin (i have argued that it is absolutely not a bubble for months and that said, damn is the chart ever a textbook bubble it makes me really nervous).
If I were bitcoin rich, and I am not, I would have 20% of my coin spread across ltc amd vtc as a hedge of sorts. I could see the spread between them narrowing only on the sheer cliff that separates them now for what has the same storage use once we have an exchange that doesnt. Completely. Suck.
In regards to your first point about the valuation of bitcoin, one factor that most people don't consider is that some number of Bitcoins have been lost with estimates ranging anywhere from 30% to 65% due to carelessness in the early days when bitcoin wasn't worth anything. http://readwrite.com/2014/01/13/what-happens-to-lost-bitcoins#awesm=~ov8aMQFKMZNfOT So I think that you need to take this into account when looking at the total Bitcoin valuation of 12B USD and realize it might be closer to 6B USD.
The market cap of the three largest remittance companies that I know of are(UAE is estimated):
Western Union 8B USD
UAE exchange ~5B USD
Moneygram 1B USD
giving just these three remittance companies a valuation of 14B USD compared to maybe 6B for bitcoin. Also, Bitcoin will do things for e-commerce and Forex that none of these companies could even dream of which are many of orders of magnitude larger. So, in the short term we may see some correction in the price of Bitcoin, maybe down to $500 USD, but in the long term it is no where near its potential.
In regards to your second point, if I were bitcoin rich I would do the exact same thing.
That may be the right way to value it. On the other hand the payment networks have disgusting gross margins. Part of bitcoin value is it shaves those to nil. So on an earnings basis they would not compete. On the third hand (as an economist I get three hands at least), in theory bitcoin can be multiples larger than the furrent carriers because global and paywalls, micropayment or realtime payments (wouldnt it be badass if people fould pay their bills by the hour instead of every 1st and 15th or whatever?? No bottleneck at paydats in the economy, could do it wit pension payments and welfare bennies even) etc. bigger market.
I break into a few angles though. Vtc is the first thing I have seen worth buying (obviously long there) for spec potential because they are A+ devs with an A- algorithm. As a store of value I cannot buy btc here because it is terrifying to buy something for $800 that was $9 a year ago. That is not sound investment stratagy on my part and I would have said same at $90 last march or whenever so grain of salt. It is just a lot of money to have exposure. But if a couple alts, and ltc and vtc fit the bill for now can hold stable i see them as savings acccounts to my bitcoin checking account. Or vtc maybe more an IRA since by the time I ever get an order done on coinedup to sell some I will probably be old enough to make it qualified money.
Don't know I. Am no expert but bitcoin is close to being widely enough accepted i can start weening off the fiat altigether and that makes altcoin diversification, while still totally sketch, more appealing and at the same time btc as backbone is crucial as payment system and fiat gateway even if i keep my savings in altcoin.
But isn't that a beautiful picture emerging as fuzzy as it is. Bankless living, amen.
For things that are characterized as traditional investments I would absolutely agree that something that has rapidly risen 10X or 100X in value would definitely be an investment to be skeptical of, but Bitcoin is not a traditional investment as we know it. According to Metcalfe's Law, the value of a network increases proportional to the number of connections in the network. The number of the connections in the network increases with the square of the number of nodes or users. Therefore, Bitcoins value could very well be justified and the only traditional investment that it might be compared to would be internet focused companies in 1992.
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
I don't think I this point that you really need to compare Vertcoin to Bitcoin. I think that what you need to consider is what the next best alternative to Litecoin is...
What I ponder now is valuation of bitcoin (i have argued that it is absolutely not a bubble for months and that said, damn is the chart ever a textbook bubble it makes me really nervous).
If I were bitcoin rich, and I am not, I would have 20% of my coin spread across ltc amd vtc as a hedge of sorts. I could see the spread between them narrowing only on the sheer cliff that separates them now for what has the same storage use once we have an exchange that doesnt. Completely. Suck.
In regards to your first point about the valuation of bitcoin, one factor that most people don't consider is that some number of Bitcoins have been lost with estimates ranging anywhere from 30% to 65% due to carelessness in the early days when bitcoin wasn't worth anything. http://readwrite.com/2014/01/13/what-happens-to-lost-bitcoins#awesm=~ov8aMQFKMZNfOT So I think that you need to take this into account when looking at the total Bitcoin valuation of 12B USD and realize it might be closer to 6B USD.
The market cap of the three largest remittance companies that I know of are(UAE is estimated):
Western Union 8B USD
UAE exchange ~5B USD
Moneygram 1B USD
giving just these three remittance companies a valuation of 14B USD compared to maybe 6B for bitcoin. Also, Bitcoin will do things for e-commerce and Forex that none of these companies could even dream of which are many of orders of magnitude larger. So, in the short term we may see some correction in the price of Bitcoin, maybe down to $500 USD, but in the long term it is no where near its potential.
In regards to your second point, if I were bitcoin rich I would do the exact same thing.
That may be the right way to value it. On the other hand the payment networks have disgusting gross margins. Part of bitcoin value is it shaves those to nil. So on an earnings basis they would not compete. On the third hand (as an economist I get three hands at least), in theory bitcoin can be multiples larger than the furrent carriers because global and paywalls, micropayment or realtime payments (wouldnt it be badass if people fould pay their bills by the hour instead of every 1st and 15th or whatever?? No bottleneck at paydats in the economy, could do it wit pension payments and welfare bennies even) etc. bigger market.
I break into a few angles though. Vtc is the first thing I have seen worth buying (obviously long there) for spec potential because they are A+ devs with an A- algorithm. As a store of value I cannot buy btc here because it is terrifying to buy something for $800 that was $9 a year ago. That is not sound investment stratagy on my part and I would have said same at $90 last march or whenever so grain of salt. It is just a lot of money to have exposure. But if a couple alts, and ltc and vtc fit the bill for now can hold stable i see them as savings acccounts to my bitcoin checking account. Or vtc maybe more an IRA since by the time I ever get an order done on coinedup to sell some I will probably be old enough to make it qualified money.
Don't know I. Am no expert but bitcoin is close to being widely enough accepted i can start weening off the fiat altigether and that makes altcoin diversification, while still totally sketch, more appealing and at the same time btc as backbone is crucial as payment system and fiat gateway even if i keep my savings in altcoin.
But isn't that a beautiful picture emerging as fuzzy as it is. Bankless living, amen.
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
I don't think I this point that you really need to compare Vertcoin to Bitcoin. I think that what you need to consider is what the next best alternative to Litecoin is...
What I ponder now is valuation of bitcoin (i have argued that it is absolutely not a bubble for months and that said, damn is the chart ever a textbook bubble it makes me really nervous).
If I were bitcoin rich, and I am not, I would have 20% of my coin spread across ltc amd vtc as a hedge of sorts. I could see the spread between them narrowing only on the sheer cliff that separates them now for what has the same storage use once we have an exchange that doesnt. Completely. Suck.
In regards to your first point about the valuation of bitcoin, one factor that most people don't consider is that some number of Bitcoins have been lost with estimates ranging anywhere from 30% to 65% due to carelessness in the early days when bitcoin wasn't worth anything. http://readwrite.com/2014/01/13/what-happens-to-lost-bitcoins#awesm=~ov8aMQFKMZNfOT So I think that you need to take this into account when looking at the total Bitcoin valuation of 12B USD and realize it might be closer to 6B USD.
The market cap of the three largest remittance companies that I know of are(UAE is estimated):
Western Union 8B USD
UAE exchange ~5B USD
Moneygram 1B USD
giving just these three remittance companies a valuation of 14B USD compared to maybe 6B for bitcoin. Also, Bitcoin will do things for e-commerce and Forex that none of these companies could even dream of which are many of orders of magnitude larger. So, in the short term we may see some correction in the price of Bitcoin, maybe down to $500 USD, but in the long term it is no where near its potential.
In regards to your second point, if I were bitcoin rich I would do the exact same thing.
I just sent a bit of btc to Poloniex because Cryptsy keeps timing out to get some Vertcoin and sit on it for a bit. Does anyone have an idea how many confirmations are needed for it to hit Poloniex? So far I got 2 confirmations in the Blockchain addy. 
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
I don't think I this point that you really need to compare Vertcoin to Bitcoin. I think that what you need to consider is what the next best alternative to Litecoin is...
Agree here. Bitcoin is the de facto winner of the payment system. They have hit criical mass as paypal did.
What I ponder now is valuation of bitcoin (i have argued that it is absolutely not a bubble for months and that said, damn is the chart ever a textbook bubble it makes me really nervous).
Is holding bitcoin a better move than holding a solid altcoin (of which vtc and ltc are my only considerations) as growth and value propositions over a currency already up 40,000% from a year ago when the two are fungible?
If I were bitcoin rich, and I am not, I would have 20% of my coin spread across ltc amd vtc as a hedge of sorts. I could see the spread between them narrowing only on the sheer cliff that separates them now for what has the same storage use once we have an exchange that doesnt. Completely. Suck.
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
I don't think I this point that you really need to compare Vertcoin to Bitcoin. I think that what you need to consider is what the next best alternative to Litecoin is...
I am more and more a fan of competing currencies. I know the "there can be only one" crowd is pretty purist and I get that but why not let people choose their own money.
Anyway I am seeing bitcoin beat up a bit the last few hours, Gox got down to $800 what is up?
Meanwhile Yahoo picked that story up. Someone is pulling some strings somewhere I bet you.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/vertcoin-soaring-cryptocurrency-set-surpass-bitcoin-165058275.html#G6t7xb8
I think you must fundamentally ask yourself what the value of litecoin is... When you compare it to bitcoin there is nowhere near as comparable of a following, marketplace, marketcap, et cetera. This means that litecoins value has be do to something else. If you look at the original intent of litecoin it was to be GPU resistant, which turned into ASIC resistant. Presently there are FPGAs released and soon there will be ASIC'S. The problem that litecoin was meant to solve was the problem of eventual centralized control that is likely the inevitable free market result of having highly specialized hardware and economic advantages of scale, or ASICs. Now that litecoin is succumbing to the power of ASIC's it is no longer the next best alternative to bitcoin. Litecoin can be easily replaced by something that promises to fulfill on litecoins original intent of maintaining a decentralized system.
One of those alternatives is clearly Vertcoin with its adaptive N-factor scrypt which will prevent ASICs from becoming practical. This is due to the fact that on die memory is very expensive, so to make an affordable ASIC that would be able to handle the future memory requirements of vertcoin you would need lots of IO's. The number of IO's and the packaging required by them would be the ultimate limitation to making a practical ASIC to run Vertcoin. The ability to make a practical ASIC is further hampered by the fact that Vertcoin's algorithm effectively changes every 18 months, so it would be difficult to justify the cost in designing and manufacturing an ASIC that only had one design cycle before becoming obsolete.
One of those alternatives is clearly Vertcoin with its adaptive N-factor scrypt which will prevent ASICs from becoming practical. This is due to the fact that on die memory is very expensive, so to make an affordable ASIC that would be able to handle the future memory requirements of vertcoin you would need lots of IO's. The number of IO's and the packaging required by them would be the ultimate limitation to making a practical ASIC to run Vertcoin. The ability to make a practical ASIC is further hampered by the fact that Vertcoin's algorithm effectively changes every 18 months, so it would be difficult to justify the cost in designing and manufacturing an ASIC that only had one design cycle before becoming obsolete.
The name was the hardest part for me to get over when I hit the buy button. But it sounds better in French and Google is the dumbest name ever.
Not sure how that article got written but good to have a little PR that doesn't require a dog meme lotto so etf I will take it.
Ps i may bump once in awhile but I don't spam. That's just tacky.
It is the first article I have seem claiming bitcoin is at all threatened by an altcoin. Let alone a brand new one.
How many coins you suppose the author is holding?
Hehe yes, exactly. Either a very ill informed author who does not understand quite how easy at this stage of its lifecycle it would be for a copy and paste to come along and steal it's thunder, nor whom has looked into scrypt jane coins either or possibly has bought a vast bag of them whilst they cost nothing. To be fair it is a good coin but come on ...bitcoin is now in danger??
Anyway just my opinion..it's good coin but this is wreckless marketing that can cause investors a lot of financial damage. I don't think the name is great either, i mean what's in a name but vertcoin just doesn't sound too exciting to me anyway. Yeah one of the best of the last wave but not as exciting as this article makes it out.
Ps i may bump once in awhile but I don't spam. That's just tacky.
It is the first article I have seem claiming bitcoin is at all threatened by an altcoin. Let alone a brand new one.
How many coins you suppose the author is holding?
bump it some more ....i think it should remain at the top forever....
then underneath it make 50 more vertcoin spam threads and bump them...
we get it, it was slightly different to ltc.... wait for 50 more vert coin clones coming next week.
This is NOT the bitcoin killer, i think scrypt jane coins are actually better in many ways. This is marketing madness.
then underneath it make 50 more vertcoin spam threads and bump them...
we get it, it was slightly different to ltc.... wait for 50 more vert coin clones coming next week.
This is NOT the bitcoin killer, i think scrypt jane coins are actually better in many ways. This is marketing madness.
I wonder about that same thing for sure cryptohunter. Will there be a critical mass in a few coins or do they all cannibalize demand?
Going to find out soon enough.
bump it some more ....i think it should remain at the top forever....
then underneath it make 50 more vertcoin spam threads and bump them...
we get it, it was slightly different to ltc.... wait for 50 more vert coin clones coming next week.
This is NOT the bitcoin killer, i think scrypt jane coins are actually better in many ways. This is marketing madness. Impending crash incoming. Dangerous investment at this point.
Can you guarantee this will be more expensive next week than it is now?? don't over pump things ... it's a good coin compared to most but it is already at a very high value, it could correct much lower at anytime so after a 15000% increase i guess now could be the time to be cautious or await a bit of a correction.
then underneath it make 50 more vertcoin spam threads and bump them...
we get it, it was slightly different to ltc.... wait for 50 more vert coin clones coming next week.
This is NOT the bitcoin killer, i think scrypt jane coins are actually better in many ways. This is marketing madness. Impending crash incoming. Dangerous investment at this point.
Can you guarantee this will be more expensive next week than it is now?? don't over pump things ... it's a good coin compared to most but it is already at a very high value, it could correct much lower at anytime so after a 15000% increase i guess now could be the time to be cautious or await a bit of a correction.
Now traded at cryptsy, coinedup, poloniex, and swissex.
Still in the single digit prices for a coue more hours. Then it is off to eat litecoin.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vertcoin-soaring-cryptocurrency-set-surpass-bitcoin-1435261
Quote
When bitcoin was launched back in 2009, anyone with a computer connected to the internet and with the right software could mine it. Early users gathered thousands of coins with ease, but because they were worth a tiny fraction of their current value there was no real incentive to mine them more quickly.
But now, huge gains in value over the last six months mean the problem with bitcoin - and, to a lesser but growing extent, litecoin - is how difficult the cryptocurrency has become to mine.
In the early days of 2009 any miner could earn coins using their own computer, but as bitcoin's value rose and more people started mining, the difficulty to extract the currency increased, leading to an arms race where the winners spent tens of thousands of pounds on dedicated hardware known as ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit).
Why is vertcoin different?
David Muller's Vertcoin hopes to offer an alternative. By taking the foundations of bitcoin and making some adjustments, vertcoin punishes miners who use powerful machines and work together in 'pools' to monopolise the mining market....
But now, huge gains in value over the last six months mean the problem with bitcoin - and, to a lesser but growing extent, litecoin - is how difficult the cryptocurrency has become to mine.
In the early days of 2009 any miner could earn coins using their own computer, but as bitcoin's value rose and more people started mining, the difficulty to extract the currency increased, leading to an arms race where the winners spent tens of thousands of pounds on dedicated hardware known as ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit).
Why is vertcoin different?
David Muller's Vertcoin hopes to offer an alternative. By taking the foundations of bitcoin and making some adjustments, vertcoin punishes miners who use powerful machines and work together in 'pools' to monopolise the mining market....
Full article for details.
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