Because now I am sure I won't use an exchange this will kick out the many people who would have bought in at 5 BTC or whatever.
Maybe someone wants to run a pass through?
Topic: idea (Read 10416 times)
Sent a PM.
I'd be happy with dividend payouts, compounding sounds impractical. I'd prefer directly after rice sales, and for now BTC.
I don't mind if Goat is the majority owner, as long as share holders are owners.
I didn't want a daily price chart, more like quarterly, maybe together with a small newsletter to shareholders (nothing fancy).
As always the biggest problem is transparency and trust. Not saying I do or don't trust Goat ultimately, but the long term nature and likely very low liquidity of this investment makes the risk/reward calculation extremely difficult. Not knowing the country and rice market does not help either.
First there will be a contract.
There is not one now because we are in the feedback stage.
yes, but the feedback could be much more precise if you had some rought draft for common reference. Currently everyone only has his own assumption to go on. Doing this "advance payment" off your time would also indicate that you are serious and allready thought about this. There is not one now because we are in the feedback stage.
I thing goat should start writing some basic contract draft. The basic idea is interesting but it's the details that count
other points:
obligatory " why shoud I trust you, at this profits I'm still fucked if you run 5 years from now".
the contract should let shareholders vote to recieve payouts in a currency other in bitcoins, in case bitcoin fails.
shareholder own what exactely? land, rice produced?
you should offer divident reinvesting.
you should offer me some way to keep my shares in cold storage. After investing I should be able to print everything, file it, and pull it out to vote or cashout (see divident reinvesting) a decade from now.
disclaimer:
I admit I'm more interested to see if this works out and getting a reference framework for the future than investing huge summs. actual investment from my side would be in single BTC digits.
I just read up on this whole thread. It's interesting, and would be a good showcase for legitimate BTC uses.
I can imagine investing a minor sum, and would like to see the following (eventually):
* I want to see the share holder contract, and a translated contract with the farmer(s).
* Detailed information about the land and the owner who holds it on investors behalf.
* I don't think you rely on GLBSE or other exchanges, they are still too volatile.
* From what I read I think the shares would be stock style, giving shared ownership, shared risk, and shared profits?
* Who will do the rice selling and for what fees?
* Do you plan to wind this down by selling the land eventually,
* or just have individual owners sell their shares for profit? If so, on which market?
* How do you plan to handle shared decision making?
* If this reaches the size of a company, do you plan to register share holders (partners) by name and verified identity?
* Can you evaluate the land price regularly to provide a current NAV to share holders?
I share this concerns.I can imagine investing a minor sum, and would like to see the following (eventually):
* I want to see the share holder contract, and a translated contract with the farmer(s).
* Detailed information about the land and the owner who holds it on investors behalf.
* I don't think you rely on GLBSE or other exchanges, they are still too volatile.
* From what I read I think the shares would be stock style, giving shared ownership, shared risk, and shared profits?
* Who will do the rice selling and for what fees?
* Do you plan to wind this down by selling the land eventually,
* or just have individual owners sell their shares for profit? If so, on which market?
* How do you plan to handle shared decision making?
* If this reaches the size of a company, do you plan to register share holders (partners) by name and verified identity?
* Can you evaluate the land price regularly to provide a current NAV to share holders?
other points:
obligatory " why shoud I trust you, at this profits I'm still fucked if you run 5 years from now".
the contract should let shareholders vote to recieve payouts in a currency other in bitcoins, in case bitcoin fails.
shareholder own what exactely? land, rice produced?
you should offer divident reinvesting.
you should offer me some way to keep my shares in cold storage. After investing I should be able to print everything, file it, and pull it out to vote or cashout (see divident reinvesting) a decade from now.
disclaimer:
I admit I'm more interested to see if this works out and getting a reference framework for the future than investing huge summs. actual investment from my side would be in single BTC digits.
I just read up on this whole thread. It's interesting, and would be a good showcase for legitimate BTC uses.
I can imagine investing a minor sum, and would like to see the following (eventually):
* I want to see the share holder contract, and a translated contract with the farmer(s).
* Detailed information about the land and the owner who holds it on investors behalf.
* I don't think you rely on GLBSE or other exchanges, they are still too volatile.
* From what I read I think the shares would be stock style, giving shared ownership, shared risk, and shared profits?
* Who will do the rice selling and for what fees?
* Do you plan to wind this down by selling the land eventually,
* or just have individual owners sell their shares for profit? If so, on which market?
* How do you plan to handle shared decision making?
* If this reaches the size of a company, do you plan to register share holders (partners) by name and verified identity?
* Can you evaluate the land price regularly to provide a current NAV to share holders?
I can imagine investing a minor sum, and would like to see the following (eventually):
* I want to see the share holder contract, and a translated contract with the farmer(s).
* Detailed information about the land and the owner who holds it on investors behalf.
* I don't think you rely on GLBSE or other exchanges, they are still too volatile.
* From what I read I think the shares would be stock style, giving shared ownership, shared risk, and shared profits?
* Who will do the rice selling and for what fees?
* Do you plan to wind this down by selling the land eventually,
* or just have individual owners sell their shares for profit? If so, on which market?
* How do you plan to handle shared decision making?
* If this reaches the size of a company, do you plan to register share holders (partners) by name and verified identity?
* Can you evaluate the land price regularly to provide a current NAV to share holders?
You're bullish on BTC, yet you denominate your investment in USD. If the price of BTC rises (as you presume), you will have to pay much more than 4-6% per year. I hope you realize that.
i dont think you understand. Im paying dividends in rice.
I will if they want. But they will have to pay customs and shipping. So I'm going to assume they will want me to sell it for them in fiat, I then convert the fiat in the BTC and send them the BTC.
Maybe you could get a rice distributor to adopt bitcoin, then you can sell the rice for bitcoin, thus removing one step of transactions? This might take a few years, but eventually everybody will know about bitcoins, and many will see the advantages of the system for international payments.
You're bullish on BTC, yet you denominate your investment in USD. If the price of BTC rises (as you presume), you will have to pay much more than 4-6% per year. I hope you realize that.
i dont think you understand. Im paying dividends in rice.
Interesting thought. Deposit btc but denominate the asset in USD ?
Basically just use BU (Bitcoin Union) instead of WU (Western Union) to zap the USD over to him...
-MarkM-
I like this. I'm pretty sure a transaction fee is magnitudes and magnitudes less than what Western Union charges.
Interesting thought. Deposit btc but denominate the asset in USD ?
Basically just use BU (Bitcoin Union) instead of WU (Western Union) to zap the USD over to him...
-MarkM-
Over the course of a year, the price of bitcoin can and will change significantly, right? Naturally, purchases of shares and payouts could be handled with fiat $. Bitcoin would still be used for the transfer of money.
My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?
My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?
We have sold LoC notes denominated in dollars using BTC as a transfer mechanism. These are private notes though we favor dealing with a few sophisticated investors than trying to compete in the ponzi-o-rama (3% per week, no 5% per week, no 7% per week, no 1.2% per day, no ∞ per millisecond).
Trying to do it on GLBSE (or any exchange) would be very difficult. Even the IPO would be tough because if you want a fixed dollar face value the amount paid in BTC is going to continually vary. GLBSE (or any exchange) could with minimal change in code support dollar denominated assets (traded w/ BTC). Look at bitmit.net as inspiration. They allow sellers to sell dollar denominated products in BTC by showing the price in USD with the continually adjusting BTC equivalent.
Interesting thought. Deposit btc but denominate the asset in USD ?
Just to make clear since the rice will be the dividend I will have to sell this for fiat, buy BTC and then send them on. The only other option would be for me to mail you rice.
We should think of this investment as based in fiat but only use BTC as a medium of exchange (cuz its fast and almost fee free). When you hold this investment you should not think of it as a BTC investment but as a fiat investment. The land will need to be bought and then sold back into fiat due to local laws.
If you want to invest with this, do not take BTC from your saving account, take fiat buy BTC and then send that.
I'm very bullish on BTC but I also do not want all of my eggs in one basket.
Also keep in mind this might be a high risk investment. Rice might not grow every year due to drought or flooding. Land prices might free fall. Anyway I think it will be better than fiat and can't wait to go look at the different plots. The guy that will be assisting us and farming for us is highly competent and I trust him.
Thanks.
Thanks.
We should think of this investment as based in fiat but only use BTC as a medium of exchange (cuz its fast and almost fee free). When you hold this investment you should not think of it as a BTC investment but as a fiat investment. The land will need to be bought and then sold back into fiat due to local laws.
If you want to invest with this, do not take BTC from your saving account, take fiat buy BTC and then send that.
I'm very bullish on BTC but I also do not want all of my eggs in one basket.
Also keep in mind this might be a high risk investment. Rice might not grow every year due to drought or flooding. Land prices might free fall. Anyway I think it will be better than fiat and can't wait to go look at the different plots. The guy that will be assisting us and farming for us is highly competent and I trust him.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Over the course of a year, the price of bitcoin can and will change significantly, right? Naturally, purchases of shares and payouts could be handled with fiat $. Bitcoin would still be used for the transfer of money.
My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?
My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?
We have sold LoC notes denominated in dollars using BTC as a transfer mechanism. These are private notes though we favor dealing with a few sophisticated investors than trying to compete in the ponzi-o-rama (3% per week, no 5% per week, no 7% per week, no 1.2% per day, no ∞ per millisecond).
Trying to do it on GLBSE (or any exchange) would be very difficult. Even the IPO would be tough because if you want a fixed dollar face value the amount paid in BTC is going to continually vary. GLBSE (or any exchange) could with minimal change in code support dollar denominated assets (traded w/ BTC). Look at bitmit.net as inspiration. They allow sellers to sell dollar denominated products in BTC by showing the price in USD with the continually adjusting BTC equivalent.
Most people have set up similar to the way fiat systems are set up: they have one "special" asset/commodity that is "local currency" and gets special treatment or focus on account of its being the local favourite.
That is basically a bias people have brought with them from the fiat world. In Open Transactions assets are assets, you can trade any for any, you can send any of them as dividends any time you choose and so on. Well okay, shares are special in the sense that to accomodate people's preconceptions the ability to send dividends is only enabled for assets of share type, but really you could choose to set up your dollars asset contract using type share if you wanted to be able to send dividends to all holders of dollars so there can be that distinction between shares and other types of assets but its up to you to use it or not when creating your asset contract.
(Eventually there will also be a type "deeds" for things of which each instance is individual too, for things like real estate or vehicles etc.)
A lot of the bias comes simply from being on the bitcointalk forum, if you were in the alternate blockchains forum maybe there would be more variety.
-MarkM-
That is basically a bias people have brought with them from the fiat world. In Open Transactions assets are assets, you can trade any for any, you can send any of them as dividends any time you choose and so on. Well okay, shares are special in the sense that to accomodate people's preconceptions the ability to send dividends is only enabled for assets of share type, but really you could choose to set up your dollars asset contract using type share if you wanted to be able to send dividends to all holders of dollars so there can be that distinction between shares and other types of assets but its up to you to use it or not when creating your asset contract.
(Eventually there will also be a type "deeds" for things of which each instance is individual too, for things like real estate or vehicles etc.)
A lot of the bias comes simply from being on the bitcointalk forum, if you were in the alternate blockchains forum maybe there would be more variety.
-MarkM-
Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.
Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.
A French one, too, at that. Shame on you! Shoo shoo!
That's not the number of the beast, thats the natural number following 665 and preceding 667. Sheesh!
(but let's not hijack this thread with nazi analogies and numerology)
Damn Goat enslaving the disadvantaged and sullying the good name of Bitcoin, all in one fell swoop!
But seriously - after thinking about this proposal a more, I still like some of the ideas. A bitcoin-backed security that is something other than loans or mining is hugely likeable on its own.
I was wondering about the long-term nature of the hypothetical rice-farming asset - this got me thinking about how it would affect payment of dividends. Over the course of a year, the price of bitcoin can and will change significantly, right? Naturally, purchases of shares and payouts could be handled with fiat $. Bitcoin would still be used for the transfer of money.
My ultimate question - Why don't any securities do this?
Would it not be disastrous if a borrower was repaying a loan in a currency that has just doubled in value? I don't even want to think about being that guy...
Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.
Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.
A French one, too, at that. Shame on you! Shoo shoo!
That's not the number of the beast, thats the natural number following 665 and preceding 667. Sheesh!
(but let's not hijack this thread with nazi analogies and numerology)
Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.
Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.
A French one, too, at that. Shame on you! Shoo shoo!
That's not the number of the beast, thats the natural number following 665 and preceding 667. Sheesh!
(but let's not hijack this thread with nazi analogies and numerology)
http://s17.postimage.org/7eiptj6u5/seem.jpg
Say what you will about the asset proposal, but the area looks pretty cool.
I wonder is that an artificial lake there or did they refurbish a natural one into that rectangular shape?
It's tremendously huge.
Say what you will about the asset proposal, but the area looks pretty cool.
I wonder is that an artificial lake there or did they refurbish a natural one into that rectangular shape?
It's tremendously huge.
What area specifically are you talking about?
The one in the picture of course. That's Siem Reap is it not?
Clicking through the images on the map I find it mostly very beautiful.
I believe that's West Baray, and yes it is artificial. There is also a smaller, East Baray reservoir.
Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.
Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Don't listen to LoupGaroux, he's a Nazi.
Really? A Nazi? That's the best you could come up with? Well, I guess someone willing to embrace the Number of the Beast in his moniker will certainly expect to find a lot of followers with that kind of thinking. Have a good life, 'cause your afterlife is going to suck something awful.
http://s17.postimage.org/7eiptj6u5/seem.jpg
Say what you will about the asset proposal, but the area looks pretty cool.
I wonder is that an artificial lake there or did they refurbish a natural one into that rectangular shape?
It's tremendously huge.
Say what you will about the asset proposal, but the area looks pretty cool.
I wonder is that an artificial lake there or did they refurbish a natural one into that rectangular shape?
It's tremendously huge.
What area specifically are you talking about?
The one in the picture of course. That's Siem Reap is it not?
Clicking through the images on the map I find it mostly very beautiful.
I'm tempted to quote that for posterity, but I suspect a couple of acres of sharecropping will not have quite the same ecological impact.
Ok, plan aborted... Back to the lab to think of a more evil "plot"...
dang, and the takeover of cambodia bit was just getting my interest! (joke!)
Actually, it would more correctly be described as the Khmer Empire, but what's a little fact-checking in a lively discussion such as this? The people who first acknowledged Jayavarman II as king of the world, were the Khmer, they set up a ritualistic capital for him at Angkor, thus the name as an Era, but not an Empire.
And unfortunately, those giant land improvements were the downfall of the Khmer Empire, causing at the time the single greatest deforestation in the history of the planet, and the loss of topsoil and the clogging of their vitally important waterways made commerce impossible.
Although, those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are forever doomed to repeat them. Have fun with your rice plantation.
And unfortunately, those giant land improvements were the downfall of the Khmer Empire, causing at the time the single greatest deforestation in the history of the planet, and the loss of topsoil and the clogging of their vitally important waterways made commerce impossible.
Although, those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are forever doomed to repeat them. Have fun with your rice plantation.
I like the idea, in general. Farming is a great long term business to be in, and it'd be great to have a rice play in bitcoin. Goat does pretty well with money IMO. I'm not worried about losing it all on one of his ventures 
Sharecropping (ganja) in norther California is pretty successful for seasoned farmers. both the landowner and the sharecropper do rather well. In fact, most of those same landowners started as sharecroppers. This represents a vast majority of the real wealth in rural northern CA. I'm not sure how much people pay in other parts of the world, but around here 50-60% is pretty common for a high-risk, possibly illegal crop..I'd imagine it'd be cheaper to grow some rice, or lettuce...or alpaca.
Unfortunately, the morons abound on this forum, and getting intelligent investors to see the idea through the venomous garbage is likely an uphill battle.
Sharecropping (ganja) in norther California is pretty successful for seasoned farmers. both the landowner and the sharecropper do rather well. In fact, most of those same landowners started as sharecroppers. This represents a vast majority of the real wealth in rural northern CA. I'm not sure how much people pay in other parts of the world, but around here 50-60% is pretty common for a high-risk, possibly illegal crop..I'd imagine it'd be cheaper to grow some rice, or lettuce...or alpaca.
Unfortunately, the morons abound on this forum, and getting intelligent investors to see the idea through the venomous garbage is likely an uphill battle.
Rice has actually been cultivated in Asia for over 5,000 years. Of course, nobody would expect a Tourette's sufferer and scammer like Goatse to actually do any research before totting out his latest scheme to liberate funds from others for his own benefit.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
^
Issues
Big issues. Scammers and white slavers make me want to puke. Arrogant jag offs like Goatse are even worse in combining both attributes in one pile of shit.
Slavery? you must be kidding. You have made it clear that you do not like me and have called me all sorts of names. Fine, but this is not slavery.
Also you call me a scammer a lot. I would like you to please start a thread in the scamming section and list your evidence. I know you won't do this because I am not a scammer. :/
Thank you.
Sorry Goatse Boy, I don't play games in the scammer forum, I'm a Free Market kind of a guy. I am just going to let the market tear you to shreds. I'll just be the guy shining the kitchen light on the cockroaches like you.
I have a friend who makes about 100k a year rice farming on leased land (in the US), I don't know what the lease costs him, but its probably around half the price his crop sells for. He's a very oppressed slave.. He lives in a nice house, with a nice wife and kids, drives his nice truck out to his leased farmland everyday parks it in his huge barn full of equipment and works the fields.. Its rough I tell ya!!
Wait until each every piece of his equipment starts breaking down.... 
Facing hard elements is always tough, no doubt about it; it can be inspirational too, that's why I like to watch shows like Gold Rush and Swamp Logger on the discovery channel.
I have a friend who makes about 100k a year rice farming on leased land (in the US), I don't know what the lease costs him, but its probably around half the price his crop sells for. He's a very oppressed slave.. He lives in a nice house, with a nice wife and kids, drives his nice truck out to his leased farmland everyday parks it in his huge barn full of equipment and works the fields.. Its rough I tell ya!!
Sharecropping is one small step away from slavery. Your record for bottom-feeding scammery on this forum speaks for itself.
The farmer gets a percentage of the profits. That is about as much the opposite of slavery as it gets. How would you arrange things differently?
Rice has actually been cultivated in Asia for over 5,000 years. Of course, nobody would expect a Tourette's sufferer and scammer like Goatse to actually do any research before totting out his latest scheme to liberate funds from others for his own benefit.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
^
Issues
Big issues. Scammers and white slavers make me want to puke. Arrogant jag offs like Goatse are even worse in combining both attributes in one pile of shit.
I dunno why anyone would invest with Goat...especially after reading this
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112071.40
edit: lol he deleted all his posts in that thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112071.40
edit: lol he deleted all his posts in that thread
Rice has actually been cultivated in Asia for over 5,000 years. Of course, nobody would expect a Tourette's sufferer and scammer like Goatse to actually do any research before totting out his latest scheme to liberate funds from others for his own benefit.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
Offering to "buy" land in the name of others in a country where he cannot legally do so, and put Third World farmers into indentured servitude to serve his greed? Goatse has just sunk to a brand new low for the bitcoin community. He is the vilest, nastiest scammer and manipulator imaginable. Why not just whip over to Pattaya and open up a personal services tourism business? That seems to be about the level you are willing to play at Goatse boy.
This is too fucking much.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
So he is responsible for their quality of life but at the same time SHOULDNT employ them?
I don't understand.
I do not think you bothered to read the thread. I just do not think you understand what is going on here.
I read the entire thread before posting. There is no need to try to discredit my points by saying I do not comprehend what has been stated. I am simply asking for some very basic information and stated some risks not yet fully discussed.
But really to be clear if you do not think the land value of Cambodia will go down, do not invest. If you think the price of food will go down, do not invest.
It is clear that when you state this you mean value in fiat. However, the investment will be denominated in BTC if you list on the GLBSE. Both the value of land and the value of BTC can fluctuate greatly in terms of KHR. Purchasing land with KHR exposes investors to compounded risk. For example; if the value of BTC(in KHR) increases at a greater rate than the value of land(in KHR) increases, the ROIC will be negative for investors who bought the asset (this is simply in regards to the land, not rice.)
It is not rocket science. Rice farming has been going on for over 100 year now... We pretty much know what to expect... Also we pretty much know what will happen when you just QE3...
Again, I would like to state claiming such certainty is dangerous. Even if future KHR values of land and rice were certain (and they are not), there is still the variable of KHR/BTC.
I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.
You say dividends; but could you please clear this up the following:
Do you mean a 100% payout to shareholders of net income in the form of dividends? If so, the 4-6% figure would be a shockingly low ROIC; especially for an emerging market play. It would also mean 0 capital to grow and expand. A 0 growth venture with such limited ROIC seems quite underwhelming for shareholders.
So we should have an asset that goes up in value compared to fiat and pay dividends in an asset that should also go up in value compared to fiat. The price of food will only go up.
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
This statement seems highly speculative. This venture would likely have extremely tight net margins. Therefore, even a small decline in the price of rice could shift the return to a negative value. Pairing this risk with an issuance denominated in btc would likely expose shareholders to extreme risk.
It seems you are also downplaying or not even illustrating many of the potential risks with this venture.
If there is enough interest in this operation, I suggest creating a much more formal model to present to potential investors.
Currently, from my vantage point, this investment would likely not many sense for a practical investor.
This might not be a bad idea if it is not limited to one farm. Perhaps a group of farmers will join together to form an international fund. I was thinking of buying a tea plantation in the Philippines. I won't need investors, but it might help the business grow faster.
I do know a few others (one guy even on this forum) who does the same. But why do you think more than one farm is good? Wouldmany small farms be better than one large farm?
Thanks.
This might not be a bad idea if it is not limited to one farm. Perhaps a group of farmers will join together to form an international fund. I was thinking of buying a tea plantation in the Philippines. I won't need investors, but it might help the business grow faster.
I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.
I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.
Well that bubble was quite obvious. I remember since I was a child wondering who on earth would buy all the houses they were building, since our population has been stable for at least a decade.
But food can be traded all around the world, and overall we will always need more and more of it.
I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.
I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.
Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.
Maybe your investments but mine have been pretty solid. You can check my history on all of my bonds.
BTW for about the 5th time we are not going to hire anyone and there is nothing on the land but dirt (and soon to be rice)....
I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.
Its also better to use btc to send fiat value overseas than paying western union so as long as you arent selling btc you already have its a good investment.
Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.
One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?
How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.
If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.
What I meant is you can't ask for an investment in BTC through the Glbse and offer a positive return in BTC with any certainty.
One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?
How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.
If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.
Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen
Chang Hum, You clearly did not read the thread. If you had you would realize that we are not going to buy machinery. A farmer who already farms rice will use his already paid for stuff to farm our rice for us. In exchange for his stuff and free time he will get a percent of the rice.
Also I highly doubt that your family has rice farms in Cambodia. I understand that you live in Thailand and like me, I think rice farming in Thailand is not a good market to get into. However we can get the same amount of rice for less than half the cost doing it in Cambodia. I think that land price in Cambodia will move up in value and become close to equal to Thailand and in the mean time I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.
Thank you.
Also I highly doubt that your family has rice farms in Cambodia. I understand that you live in Thailand and like me, I think rice farming in Thailand is not a good market to get into. However we can get the same amount of rice for less than half the cost doing it in Cambodia. I think that land price in Cambodia will move up in value and become close to equal to Thailand and in the mean time I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.
Thank you.
No they don't, just my 2 cents good luck with it
I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.
That's pretty much the same conclusion I reached after researching investing in ag business around the world, not only in poor economies.
Unless you are Jim Rogers of course
One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?
If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.
Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!
Bitcoin is not seen by the average world citizen as low risk and the average world citizen does not see rice farming, something that has been done for 10,000 years as high risk. Some people would think rice farming to be more stable than BTC but I will admit most of these people might be found outside of this forum.
I'm not saying you should sell BTC to invest in this project, I love BTC, but if you want to invest some of your fiat in this project BTC is a good way to send that value to me.
BTC is more than just a commodity to be stored it is also a way to send wealth around the world safely in seconds.
Thanks.
I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.
Do you know how would those peasants in Cambodia react to your ideas? I am quite sure they would not be happy that some spoiled Westerner (correct me if I'm wrong) is keen on imposing limits on freedom of others, freedom which would result in them having a job to support their families.
You raise an interesting point. Given Cambodia's history with slavery farming (farmers can similarly become indentured to the landowner after a bad year under sharecropping), I would be interested to know their opinion about Goat's proposed venture.
If they agree to work it will mean that the pros outweigh the cons.
One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?
If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.
Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!
One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?
If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.
Btc like usd and thai baht will float. How the value gets to me i.dont care. I can take gold or even rice and potentally pay out the same. I could mail investers rice if they want. On the phone so sorry for unclear messagea. Thx
Yeah think you're kind of missing the point. Never mind!
You should not think of this as a btc investment. Btc in this case is only a way to move fiat and rice. Thanks
Oh OK you're not funding with btc right? Sorry I didn't realise you could do GLBSE investments in USD and you used the term BTC several times in your pitch
Gene - what is such a leftist as you doing on this forum?!
I guess being disgusted by people wanting to establish an indentured-servant plantation in Cambodia makes that person a "leftist." I'm going to guess you're an American. Can you guess which was the party of Lincoln, the emancipator of slaves?
What is the basis of your guess? This is an international forum and no, I am not an American.
I am from a country with a rich history of serfdom (with its last forms declining in 1930s) but I believe everyone should be given freedom to decide for themselves.
I am against state interventionism in favour of those whom you may deem as being 'oppressed' in the same manner as I am against intervenionism in favour of those who are able to provide an opportunity of work to abject individuals as a mutually benefitting alternative to poverty.
Do you know how would those peasants in Cambodia react to your ideas? I am quite sure they would not be happy that some spoiled Westerner (correct me if I'm wrong) is keen on imposing limits on freedom of others, freedom which would result in them having a job to support their families.
After talking with the guy who will odds are farm or manage the land 4 to 6% seems to be a more realistic return. (I will update OP)
This is not guaranteed but what should happen in an average year.
Also due to flooding in the area this year there are more sellers than buyers. Land should be able to be bought at free market prices for less than average.
Still no land has been bought at this time and I am still seeing if the community is interested in investing with me.
Thanks.
This is not guaranteed but what should happen in an average year.
Also due to flooding in the area this year there are more sellers than buyers. Land should be able to be bought at free market prices for less than average.
Still no land has been bought at this time and I am still seeing if the community is interested in investing with me.
Thanks.
i am very interested in investing in this project.
but after all the scams and my newborn daughter...i dont have btc now and it'll take a little until this changes.
in dec a project (from me and a friend) will start to fly: maybe things look differently afterwards.
one question: who will own the land? you or your shareholders?
what possibilities can you offer if i want to sell my shares?
i'd also prefer to invest directly in you and skip the middleman
If you do this please do not list on GLBSE.
I think GLBSE could be a good place to list even if you have a few large investors. There is no reason shares have to be below 1 btc in price, you could have shares be 10 btc if you want. The GLBSE would then keep an orderly record of who owns how much of the investment, and allow people who invest the ability to sell that investment at a later date.
I'm not list on GLBSE.
Your investment is a relatively long term asset. you should provide liquidity to your investors on some time-framely matched infrastructure. I don't think GLBSE will last long enough to match your asset life time.
There are worries in other asset discussion thread that people who don't trust GLBSE ask the issuer think some back up plans when the GLBSE disappeared. GLBSE is a very centralized exchange. surely Nefario will meet some serious legal trouble later and the whole GLBSE shut down, most of the investors cannot prove that they hold a certain interest in your operation.
Your investment is a relatively long term asset. you should provide liquidity to your investors on some time-framely matched infrastructure. I don't think GLBSE will last long enough to match your asset life time.
There are worries in other asset discussion thread that people who don't trust GLBSE ask the issuer think some back up plans when the GLBSE disappeared. GLBSE is a very centralized exchange. surely Nefario will meet some serious legal trouble later and the whole GLBSE shut down, most of the investors cannot prove that they hold a certain interest in your operation.
Hey do you live in China by the way mate?
I'm not list on GLBSE.
Your investment is a relatively long term asset. you should provide liquidity to your investors on some time-framely matched infrastructure. I don't think GLBSE will last long enough to match your asset life time.
There are worries in other asset discussion thread that people who don't trust GLBSE ask the issuer think some back up plans when the GLBSE disappeared. GLBSE is a very centralized exchange. surely Nefario will meet some serious legal trouble later and the whole GLBSE shut down, most of the investors cannot prove that they hold a certain interest in your operation.
Your investment is a relatively long term asset. you should provide liquidity to your investors on some time-framely matched infrastructure. I don't think GLBSE will last long enough to match your asset life time.
There are worries in other asset discussion thread that people who don't trust GLBSE ask the issuer think some back up plans when the GLBSE disappeared. GLBSE is a very centralized exchange. surely Nefario will meet some serious legal trouble later and the whole GLBSE shut down, most of the investors cannot prove that they hold a certain interest in your operation.
This shows the beauty of bitcoin. Because of bitcoin, we have the option to invest in a small operation on the opposite side of the globe. It opens the financial market worldwide and allows freedom for your money.
"Sharecropping" has a negative connotation to many people because of the system used in the US after slavery was made illegal, where rich landowners basically continued slavery by having the poor former slaves work the land for no pay. Sharecropping can be much more equitable and viable if the people who work the land get a meaningful portion of the profits. It all depends on how the crop is shared between the landowner and the landworker.
"Sharecropping" has a negative connotation to many people because of the system used in the US after slavery was made illegal, where rich landowners basically continued slavery by having the poor former slaves work the land for no pay. Sharecropping can be much more equitable and viable if the people who work the land get a meaningful portion of the profits. It all depends on how the crop is shared between the landowner and the landworker.
Sharecropping is a word that has so many really negative connotations, especially in the USA, given our historical fuckage of other races.
At least getting away from that terminology and finding a new, respectful, term would, well, reduce the douche factor.
Maybe collective farming?
This is too fucking much.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Thanks for the link but I am talking about Cambodia not the USA. I have people who want to farm this land because they will make more than working in the Nike factory down the road... Should I tell them sorry I wont let you farm it after all cuz some guy on the internet said you were like slaves? Free market...
Indentured servitude in the name of the "free market" as a way for people to save themselves from other rapacious exploiters. It matters little what country it is. I suspect that you think this scheme would be easier to pull off in a place like Cambodia than the US or Europe precisely because they're currently more desperate. You're right about that.
I've never said or written this to anyone before: you are fucking scum.
^ +1 people creating jobs in country's with high unemployment should be shot in my opinion!
This is too fucking much.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Thanks for the link but I am talking about Cambodia not the USA. I have people who want to farm this land because they will make more than working in the Nike factory down the road... Should I tell them sorry I wont let you farm it after all cuz some guy on the internet said you were like slaves? Free market...
Indentured servitude in the name of the "free market" as a way for people to save themselves from other rapacious exploiters. It matters little what country it is. I suspect that you think this scheme would be easier to pull off in a place like Cambodia than the US or Europe precisely because they're currently more desperate. You're right about that.
I've never said or written this to anyone before: you are fucking scum.
How much have you done the research?
Is the land allowed to build a house or factory on the land (which means stop grow rice) and sell it to other people? Do you have such plan?
Is it closed to the city? which city? Location? Sellers?
Is it allowed a foreigner to buy a land? Is it allowed to be sold right now and in the future?
Taxes?
Is the land allowed to build a house or factory on the land (which means stop grow rice) and sell it to other people? Do you have such plan?
Is it closed to the city? which city? Location? Sellers?
Is it allowed a foreigner to buy a land? Is it allowed to be sold right now and in the future?
Taxes?
This is too fucking much.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
Goat, you've made it clear that you're a sad little fuck, but you've gone above and beyond with this sharecropping idea.
Let's take a look at sharecropping in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States
This is indentured servitude, just one small step away from slavery.
Fuck you. Get the fuck out of here; you are a sack of shit.
its not that expensive to open a coorp. (as far as i understood nefario glbse does not fall under any money regulation laws)
main problem are taxes (and the paperwork)
i see it as a mayor step for bitcoin itself. it would gain trust by many people and could attract real investors.
we are there if the next facebook considers glbse for their ipo
main problem are taxes (and the paperwork)
i see it as a mayor step for bitcoin itself. it would gain trust by many people and could attract real investors.
we are there if the next facebook considers glbse for their ipo
Food is a pretty safe bet, especially staple foods. Good choice.
Did you take a look at the watering situation at that piece of land? Is there a natural flooding source available or will you have to rely on artificial irrigation?
Did you take a look at the watering situation at that piece of land? Is there a natural flooding source available or will you have to rely on artificial irrigation?
Natural flooding. That is the only way I would go in this part of the world. Also there is not one piece of land that I have picked out. There is a rice farming area that I have in mind and will be going back there in 3 weeks to make a purchase. However I wanted to get some feedback on the asset idea to see if there was some significant interest. If so I might get a larger area and might be able to get a higher percentage of the rice yield.
Thank you.
I have interest, however for something long term such as this, there is going to need to be a little bit more than the rinky dinky GLBSE "contract" format, an actual asset charter and the like would be imperative to deal with any and all legal implications that could arise.
Can you legally own land in Cambodia?
Are you a Cambodian citizen?
Because it looks like its legal for you to own an apartment or condo, but land purchase is against the law for Foreigners.
To be honest I'm unclear on your legal status because of your wife, etc
I think this is a great idea, I just want a clarification on the legal status of it.
Are you a Cambodian citizen?
Because it looks like its legal for you to own an apartment or condo, but land purchase is against the law for Foreigners.
To be honest I'm unclear on your legal status because of your wife, etc
I think this is a great idea, I just want a clarification on the legal status of it.
Hi all.
I have been looking into buying land and farming for a while now and it looks like I'm going to go ahead and do it in Cambodia. (maybe Thailand and Missouri too at a later date)
I have been looking into buying land and farming for a while now and it looks like I'm going to go ahead and do it in Cambodia. (maybe Thailand and Missouri too at a later date)
Says the goat who claims he cant even afford a lawyer:
I'm in Thailand and I do not have the money to hire a lawyer to file a complain on my behalf.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/going-after-trendon-shavers-pirateat40-btcst-108282I will wait in queue to lend you 1000s of BTCs for a multi year farming project that doesnt even produce a return in BTC, so you are shorting them.
I think this is a good idea if only to diversify the market with a security that isn't bitcoin related.
From an investment perspective, this could be very attractive. To my knowledge, there's no easy way for someone here in America to invest in something like this without existing connections.
You mention that the land will increase in value. This is undoubtedly true. I'm wondering, how would shareholders benefit from the valuation of the land in this case?
From an investment perspective, this could be very attractive. To my knowledge, there's no easy way for someone here in America to invest in something like this without existing connections.
You mention that the land will increase in value. This is undoubtedly true. I'm wondering, how would shareholders benefit from the valuation of the land in this case?
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