If AI were to somehow hack into Bitcoin Core

firesurfer

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 27, 2023, 02:10:47 PM

Perhaps there would be a role for an advanced enough AI to help design the next generation of ASICs and squeeze out a bit more efficiency, but an AI isn't going to attack bitcoin.

I've heard about AI cameras and now AI computers, AI miners. The idea is great. Is there anything we can do to improve mining equipment? Such development of AI will entail many problems in mining. Will they one day take away the miners' rewards and create their empire?

Godday

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If AI develops to be insanely powerful and insanely powerful, I think that's also true for digital currency mining companies, or for all the technological systems that exist in this world. Believe me. AI will not develop unilaterally. There will be many startups in the world that will also develop AI. Digital world security companies will also develop AI. So if you say there will be an advanced AI that will hack a Bitcoin core I think it is almost impossible to happen. If I were the owner of a cryptocurrency mining company then I would also be hiring experts in the field of cryptocurrency and digital security to develop incredibly sophisticated AI to counter all kinds of outside cyber attacks.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 11, 2023, 01:32:08 PM

Hacking a repository doesn't mean that you're hacking the actual thing. The moment something changed in the repo, we'd notice-- or at least the devs would.

I believe there are lots of developers watching the Bitcoin repository, so whenever there is an update or modification, it will be easily noticed and reviewed. The exploit will be easily detected and fixed before the problem escalate.

Quote from: so98nn on March 11, 2023, 01:15:30 PM

Hmm, just now AI evolved to write articles and everyone thinks it’s age of AI. That’s merely bullshit and nothing else bruh. Stop using AI word and hacking they are just unsynchronised blend of programming. Who the hell would invest in AI programming is able to hack into bitcoin core and destroy. In addition the devs sitting there aren’t just sitting in an emptiness. They would “react” to so called AI.

I don’t know why but AI is really getting in the heads of every person these days. Why no one is stating that AI could help us shape the future of bitcoin. May be it would help us solving the scalability issues, or may be mining could be eased with it and so on…!

Because AI is the trend and buzzword at this moment. that is the main reason why AI is really getting in the heads of every person who knows it these days. But honestly, I believe in the future of AI it's that this era is too early for it to compete against humans.

BlackHatCoiner

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Hacking a repository doesn't mean that you're hacking the actual thing. The moment something changed in the repo, we'd notice-- or at least the devs would. Also, why don't you make the same question for a human? Humans are more intelligent than AIs at the moment.

Quote from: NotATether on February 21, 2023, 03:30:10 AM

Besides, if AI were smart enough to do that, then AI "bias" ethical issues would be non-existent.

Just because some AIs are trained to have ethical values, it doesn't mean all do. Pretty much the opposite; it's only a built-in feature. In my opinion, the most ethical among all is the one that doesn't have any ethics to enforce, like ChatGPT.

so98nn

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Hmm, just now AI evolved to write articles and everyone thinks it’s age of AI. That’s merely bullshit and nothing else bruh. Stop using AI word and hacking they are just unsynchronised blend of programming. Who the hell would invest in AI programming is able to hack into bitcoin core and destroy. In addition the devs sitting there aren’t just sitting in an emptiness. They would “react” to so called AI.

I don’t know why but AI is really getting in the heads of every person these days. Why no one is stating that AI could help us shape the future of bitcoin. May be it would help us solving the scalability issues, or may be mining could be eased with it and so on…!

firesurfer

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I think it will take a supercomputer to run that AI, which will take more time than we imagine. I'm not so sure AI can do it but there are more things out there that are worth hacking than Bitcoin such as banking systems and data of significant world companies.
The Bitcoin network will fork to another fork or be updated when any attack occurs.

buwaytress

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on March 11, 2023, 08:18:04 AM

Quote from: tread93 on March 09, 2023, 11:05:57 PM

Yeah you're probably right, I mean nothing is impossible though right? Look all I'm saying is that the rate of computational power is still doubling every 2 years if I'm not mistaken.

It doesn't matter how much computational power you have if I refuse to run your code. You can hack the whole of GitHub and upload malicious software in to every repository in existence, not just Bitcoin Core. None of that achieves anything unless people actually download and run your malicious software.

And of course as the computational power of a malicious attacker increases, then the computational power of honest users, honest nodes, security software, etc., also increases at the same rate.

Exactly.

Even if CCCP and every bigwig in the world got together and did a 99% attack, go ahead. I'll sit back and wait, the good nodes (some already we know on this forum) will reorganise, they'll all be stuck with their useless chain, see how much debts they'll be sitting with after that.

Would probably be super inconvenient at worst, but we'll get over it and be stronger for it.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: tread93 on March 09, 2023, 11:05:57 PM

Yeah you're probably right, I mean nothing is impossible though right? Look all I'm saying is that the rate of computational power is still doubling every 2 years if I'm not mistaken.

It doesn't matter how much computational power you have if I refuse to run your code. You can hack the whole of GitHub and upload malicious software in to every repository in existence, not just Bitcoin Core. None of that achieves anything unless people actually download and run your malicious software.

And of course as the computational power of a malicious attacker increases, then the computational power of honest users, honest nodes, security software, etc., also increases at the same rate.

tread93

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Quote from: death69 on February 26, 2023, 06:26:42 AM

Yo, that's a dope question you've thrown down. Hypotheticaly, a badass AI comp with infinite computational muscle could try to jack into the Bitcoin Core protocoll and tweak the transactional deets. But when it comes down to the reel deal, it's a slim chance of success, my dude. The Bitcoin net is locked down by some mad complex crypto algorithim that needs a whole ton of processin power to bust through.

Not only that, but like u said, you'd need a 51% attack or more to pull this off, and it's unlikely anyone homie could gather up that much mining power. Plus, the Bitcoin community is always tweakin their security game to keep any possible attaks at bay. So while we gotta stay sharp, it's crazy unlikely that some powerful AI comp could hack the Bitcien net, my friend.

Yeah you're probably right, I mean nothing is impossible though right? Look all I'm saying is that the rate of computational power is still doubling every 2 years if I'm not mistaken. Bitcoin will here in 2123, still on the last percentage of mining if I'm also not mistaken there also. In 100 years there is no telling what can be done or where progress will be in this industry and really everything in general. None of us will even be here, which is so wild to even think about. If anything though, this would definitely make for an epic movie though right ?! hHahha I'd watch it.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: kryptqnick on February 27, 2023, 01:04:53 PM

While AI is advancing fast, I don't think we've seen examples of it deciding to do anything specific (it merely responds to humans and what they prompt it to do).

In terms of the two attacks we are talking about here - the ECDLP and a 51% attack - neither are particularly helped by the umbrella term of "AI". Until we have (or indeed, if we ever have) large, stable, functioning quantum computers capable of running Shor's algorithm on the size of numbers we are using (which will be decades away at a minimum), then the best attack against the elliptic curve multiplication used in bitcoin requires in the order of 2¹²⁸ operations. An AI can't change that fact. Maybe it can run those operations slightly faster, but 2¹²⁸ is still many orders of magnitude outside the realms of possibility.

And in terms of a 51% attack - an AI can't generate hash rate unless it has the hardware to do it. And we already have very specialized hardware called ASICs which do just this. Mining bitcoin is not a difficult problem which requires a super advanced AI to figure out - it's simply a case of performing a very simple hash operation as many times as possible as quickly as possible. And so any AI running on non-ASICs will be inferior to the ASICs we already have.

Perhaps there would be a role for an advanced enough AI to help design the next generation of ASICs and squeeze out a bit more efficiency, but an AI isn't going to attack bitcoin.

kryptqnick

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I hope o_e_l_e_o is right, and that's a great thing about community projects: there are different people to notice mistakes, attacks, potential risks, and together they can achieve more than one person ever could. While AI is advancing fast, I don't think we've seen examples of it deciding to do anything specific (it merely responds to humans and what they prompt it to do). But it's a risk worth considering, of course. As for the 51% attack, I guess it's more real than AI hacking into Bitcoin Core, but it's 'impossible' due to potentially enormous funds and other resources it would require.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: death69 on February 26, 2023, 06:26:42 AM

Hypotheticaly, a badass AI comp with infinite computational muscle could try to jack into the Bitcoin Core protocoll and tweak the transactional deets.

No, it can't. If you "tweak" the details of a transaction, then (outside of transaction malleability which does not affect where the coins end up anyway) the transaction becomes invalid for the signature provided and would be rejected by the network. The AI would either have to fork bitcoin to something different which does not require signatures to spend coins (which as I covered above would simply fork a very small minority of nodes who chose to ran the malicious software off the main chain and on to something other chain which would not be bitcoin), or they would have to break the ECDLP, which is impossible with current technology, even for an AI.

Quote from: death69 on February 26, 2023, 06:26:42 AM

Not only that, but like u said, you'd need a 51% attack or more to pull this off, and it's unlikely anyone homie could gather up that much mining power.

Again, this is not correct. Maliciously changing the code being ran by nodes, and acquiring 51% of the hashrate, are two entirely different attacks.

kelechi

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Everyone says there is no way there will be 51% problem with BTC

death69

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Yo, that's a dope question you've thrown down. Hypotheticaly, a badass AI comp with infinite computational muscle could try to jack into the Bitcoin Core protocoll and tweak the transactional deets. But when it comes down to the reel deal, it's a slim chance of success, my dude. The Bitcoin net is locked down by some mad complex crypto algorithim that needs a whole ton of processin power to bust through.

Not only that, but like u said, you'd need a 51% attack or more to pull this off, and it's unlikely anyone homie could gather up that much mining power. Plus, the Bitcoin community is always tweakin their security game to keep any possible attaks at bay. So while we gotta stay sharp, it's crazy unlikely that some powerful AI comp could hack the Bitcien net, my friend.

fenixosup

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I hope that dev team is smart enough to prevent it, they can just rejects any malicious commits

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: mendace on February 21, 2023, 09:22:21 AM

Absolutely true, but could it slow down or freeze the "blockchain" if it were to repeat the attack sequentially? I mean if it repeats it in bursts and all nodes would be forced to fall back to the predicted version every time.

No, because this would require every node to simultaneously update to the malicious version, which will never happen.

There is no auto-update mechanism in bitcoin and no mechanism to push updates or code changes on nodes. Node operates must voluntarily choose to download and run the new version. Looking at https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/nodes right now, there are 11 different versions of Bitcoin Core which have more than 100 nodes running them. Only around 25% of nodes are running some form of version 24, which was released over 2 months ago, and 75% of nodes are still running older versions. So even if a malicious version was published and 25% of nodes moved to this malicious version, the other 75% of nodes would continue running non malicious versions. Assuming a similar split of hashrate, then all that would happen would be the average block time would increase by a few minutes until the 25% of miners realized they were mining a malicious fork and switched back to bitcoin.

mendace

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 19, 2023, 03:45:38 PM

No. If someone could hack the Github repo and introduce malicious code in to Bitcoin Core, then it would be very quickly picked up and announced in the community and no one would download and use the malicious version, therefore achieving nothing. It is not possible to simultaneously hack every instance of Bitcoin Core which is currently running in order to change the code of every single node. And even if such a thing did happen, the new forked coin would not be bitcoin and every node could just revert to and older non-malicious version of the software and pick up the real bitcoin chain where it was left off.

Absolutely true, but could it slow down or freeze the "blockchain" if it were to repeat the attack sequentially? I mean if it repeats it in bursts and all nodes would be forced to fall back to the predicted version every time.

Aanuoluwatofunmi

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core and every system running it to change the code/transactional data?

Bitcoincore isn't just a program, it also follows the strict adherence to the protocols attached with the use of blockchain technology,fine and good everything has been programmed about bitcoincore but it does not work outside the consensus its made up with, that means no any form of alterations is allowed to bridge the ones it operates under and AI is just another program on it own which follows a different pattern entirely from that of bitcoincore.

NotATether

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Quote from: Z-tight on February 19, 2023, 05:09:48 PM

Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core

If there is ever an AI with unlimited computational power

Why do people keep writing about AI as if it is a very smart hacker?

AI is just a large neural network, that's all. Whatever it is not trained to do, it cannot do.

Besides, if AI were smart enough to do that, then AI "bias" ethical issues would be non-existent. The fact that it is a very trending topic states that AIs have a long way to go before they become sentient.

BenCodie

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 04:42:36 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on February 19, 2023, 04:00:14 PM

Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

Now this is an interesting subject. With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer ...

No.

Just a flat out no haha love it. Okay well AI can’t get past BTC, the government can’t, is there anything that could possibly ever stop Bitcoin?

Probably not, and that's why we are all here and why it still has value today. Even nuclear war can't take down BTC, there are multiple satellites already in space that are keeping copies of the Bitcoin blockchain/running a Bitcoin full node...so Bitcoin is capable of living on longer than what we will.

davis196

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During the past few years, most posts on Bitcointalk were about "Will Quantum computers destroy Bitcoin?".
Now the trend is shifting towards "Will AI destroy Bitcoin?". This is hilarious. What happened to Quantum computers? Are they still a threat? Grin

An AI bot cannot perform a 51% attack, because it lacks the resources and the potential profits won't be higher than the costs.
OP, you should learn more about how the blockchain works. I don't consider myself to be an expert, but such ignorant questions are funny.
I'm waiting for the next wave of forum posts titled "Will {insert random high tech term here} destroy/hack Bitcoin?" Grin

o48o

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

Now this is an interesting subject. With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core and every system running it to change the code/transactional data? Its so wild even thinking about it, and obviously nearly impossible to do. But does anyone know the exact math or how to run an equation to figure out how advanced a system would need to be to do this? Obviously would need to be a 51% attack or more to achieve this, and I do believe the largest mining pools are run out of China, so largely they would probably need to be on board with something like that, right?

There's not going to be such thing as unlimited computational power, and if there would be, we would live in a whole different kind of world.
Anyway you can see the cost of 51% attack from here: https://www.crypto51.app/
It would be throwing money away because they would make way more money just using that mining power to mine bitcoin Tongue

.

decodx

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Quote from: Lucius on February 20, 2023, 05:51:09 AM

@tread93, unfortunately, you don't ask questions that have too much to do with reality - because 2-3 days ago you wondered if Satoshi left some kind of hidden entrance, today you think that AI will succeed in somehow harming Bitcoin - even though AI will not be intelligent enough for a long time to even recognize what is in a certain photo, let alone carry out sophisticated attacks on something much more complex.

It's sad to say, but we've been seeing it a lot lately - loads of people don't really get what today's "AI" is all about or how it works. Instead, their perceptions are heavily influenced by the depictions of artificial intelligence in science fiction and similar genres of popular literature and movies. Also, there's a fair bit of hype and exaggerated claims surrounding the capabilities of AI, which can fuel unrealistic expectations and contribute to misunderstandings about what it can actually do. That's why lots of folks think that AI will just magically turn into all-knowing machines that can solve any problem in a snap, but that's actually pretty far from the truth. While AI has made impressive strides in recent years and can indeed excel at certain tasks, such as processing large amounts of data, it still has its limitations and may never be able of truly human-like intelligence or solving complex problems without assistance.

Quote from: Lucius on February 20, 2023, 05:51:09 AM

Here, read something interesting - and solve reCaptcha less because that's how AI becomes smarter

If you can identify what’s in these images, you’re smarter than AI

Cool article! @tread93, you should check out some more stuff like this to get a better handle on what AI is all about and what it's not. This could save you the trouble of asking such questions on the forum in the future.

Lucius

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@tread93, unfortunately, you don't ask questions that have too much to do with reality - because 2-3 days ago you wondered if Satoshi left some kind of hidden entrance, today you think that AI will succeed in somehow harming Bitcoin - even though AI will not be intelligent enough for a long time to even recognize what is in a certain photo, let alone carry out sophisticated attacks on something much more complex.

Here, read something interesting - and solve reCaptcha less because that's how AI becomes smarter

If you can identify what’s in these images, you’re smarter than AI

thecodebear

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No. That's not how Bitcoin works. Kinda the whole point of Bitcoin is attacks don't work on it because it is decentralized. That's what makes it different than every other computer system in the world.

AI can't do anything. Now you could talk about a virus that is meant to infect Bitcoin nodes or Bitcoin miners or something (which doesn't require AI doing anything), but as soon as people realized it they would just shut down their machines.

As far as hacking Bitcoin Core, that isn't a system. It's just the code. The system is the many thousands-strong decentralized network that makes up the Bitcoin network. Changing the code on Github of Bitcoin Core won't do anything because the maintainers would immediately see it and see someone had hacked into their Github account and get rid of the changes.

Bitcoin is immune to the sorts of attacks that traditionally take down computer software programs. This is one of the reasons it is such a revolutionary technology and why its success has never been repeated and nothing challenges it.

dothebeats

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I doubt it would be feasible at all. It would be a wasted effort since the chain would simply fork and move on. Also, it would easily be a wrong move considering that that time could easily be poured into something more meaningful. And, the AI can write beautiful code all it wants, but that's not the point, it would still need a machine that has unlimited computational power that can do the actual work.

So no, the AI will not do shit. And if it does shit, the network can easily undo everything and just split from that chain.

BlackBoss_

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Bitcoin Core has never been hacked.

AI is trained by big data that originally created by human and if human have yet found bugs to hack Bitcoin Core, AI won't have enough data to learn and hack Bitcoin Core. Bitcoin Core have bugs with its software but has never been hacked and those bugs were fixed by Bitcoin Core developers with time and each version.

Bitcoin Core is not the only wallet software for Bitcoin and what hacks can steal our keys if we create our wallets offline, air-gapped?

hatshepsut93

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There's no AI that you are talking about. What people call today AI is just a digital parrot that copies certain skill without understanding what is it doing. Neural network can't write any sort of sophisticated code, it can't solve complex tasks. "AI hacking Bitcoin Core" is a complete nonsense. It's not even worth discussing.

decodx

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 04:42:36 PM

Just a flat out no haha love it. Okay well AI can’t get past BTC, the government can’t, is there anything that could possibly ever stop Bitcoin?

You kind of already answered it yourself: "something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power", except the AI part is completely unnecessary and pointless. The SHA-256 algorithm used for mining is surprisingly simple and can in fact be done by hand (and possibly a calculator if you're really bad at math), but it requires an extremely large number of "rounds" to mine a block. Therefore, you do not require any 'intelligence' but rather a specialized chip that can process the algorithm rapidly. This is precisely what ASIC miners do.

lionheart78

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I do not think it will have the ability to hack Bitcoin core in its current state. Even quantum computers do not guarantee that they can hack Bitcoin security, what more an AI with limited computational power and data feeds.

For an AI to hack the blockchain, the AI creator must be knowledgeable enough to break the security of Bitcoin and feed the AI that information. , which I think is next to impossible.

Z-tight

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core

If there is ever an AI with unlimited computational power, then BTC may not be the first target or what we would worry about most at that time, it would first hack into other systems that don't really have strong protection. The banks, financial institutions and traditional services are not even safe. BTC network has a way to evolve to counter things like these, but if something like this happens, it isn't only the BTC network that would have to work on counter measures for it, almost every other system will have to as well. So people should stop it with the thought that quantum computers, AI are like a direct threat or a flaw to the BTC network.

tread93

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Quote from: odolvlobo on February 19, 2023, 04:00:14 PM

Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

Now this is an interesting subject. With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer ...

No.

Just a flat out no haha love it. Okay well AI can’t get past BTC, the government can’t, is there anything that could possibly ever stop Bitcoin?

odolvlobo

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

Now this is an interesting subject. With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer ...

No.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core and every system running it to change the code/transactional data?

No. If someone could hack the Github repo and introduce malicious code in to Bitcoin Core, then it would be very quickly picked up and announced in the community and no one would download and use the malicious version, therefore achieving nothing. It is not possible to simultaneously hack every instance of Bitcoin Core which is currently running in order to change the code of every single node. And even if such a thing did happen, the new forked coin would not be bitcoin and every node could just revert to and older non-malicious version of the software and pick up the real bitcoin chain where it was left off.

Quote from: tread93 on February 19, 2023, 02:05:24 PM

Obviously would need to be a 51% attack or more to achieve this, and I do believe the largest mining pools are run out of China, so largely they would probably need to be on board with something like that, right?

A 51% attack is a completely different concept and has to do with a single malicious miner controlling a majority of the hashrate. It has nothing to do with hacking Bitcoin Core.

digaran

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Right. They need to have lost their minds to do that. Because any malicious attack would result in a hard fork, and thus, their now shitcoin is worthless.

An AI with unlimited CCAP is a fiction, even if something like that existed, bitcoin would be the perfect currency if we are speaking about intelligence here and not a dumb talking machine. The concern that stems from the notion of having a super intelligence computer is that, they could enslave us, confine us, and at the end when the machine sees that we can't change, it would plot an extinction level event.

We are essentially afraid of AI because it can see through our BS, and since it's a machine, it wouldn't feel anything when it tries to kill us all.
Bottom line, AI and bitcoin are actually the same.!

tread93

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Now this is an interesting subject. With AI becoming so advanced so quickly I wonder if it would ever even be possible for something like a crazy powerful AI computer w/ like unlimited computational power to hack into BTC Core and every system running it to change the code/transactional data? Its so wild even thinking about it, and obviously nearly impossible to do. But does anyone know the exact math or how to run an equation to figure out how advanced a system would need to be to do this? Obviously would need to be a 51% attack or more to achieve this, and I do believe the largest mining pools are run out of China, so largely they would probably need to be on board with something like that, right?

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