If bitcoin becomes generally adopted, will 21million btc be enough for everyone?

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on August 21, 2022, 04:55:23 AM

I think the quantity isnt matter even 20billion people or more shares it. The important is its value in thr future even a 0.01 could be a 10k usd each and there would still be enough divisible by the users. Supply and demand affects the price and utility so a fraction of btc could be worth alot even not 1 whole piece of btc.

Surely the price will increase much, if indeed it exceeds Enough to be distributed to all of him, then it is unlikely that the price will crash, because everyone around the world already has bitcoin, that's an odd problem in my mind, otherwise it would be something stunning...

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Quote from: yazher on August 22, 2022, 05:42:28 AM

We won't really need them all to make transactions, we already found a way to fix that problem because as of now, there are lots of cryptocurrencies that are close to bitcoin and they can be added as the main crypto adopted as well. But unfortunately, most of them are centralized and don't have the bitcoin traits which make it unique to become a candidate for total adoption all around the world to be one of their official currencies.

Anything can happen. With technology it is possible to make changes. When the World is ready to get adopted to technology, even if the limited supply of bitcoin isn't enough then something new can take the place of bitcoin and fulfill the needs. However no technology will be able to provide the effective functionality same as what we're experiencing with bitcoin

yazher

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We won't really need them all to make transactions, we already found a way to fix that problem because as of now, there are lots of cryptocurrencies that are close to bitcoin and they can be added as the main crypto adopted as well. But unfortunately, most of them are centralized and don't have the bitcoin traits which make it unique to become a candidate for total adoption all around the world to be one of their official currencies.

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People do not understand that 21 million Bitcoins is actually a lot of coins, not only today when globally a very small percentage of people use Bitcoin, but it will be similar in the next 5-10 years, considering that there will always be many more who will want to sell, but those who will want to buy. Furthermore, it is wrong to think that in the near future (even in the distant future) the majority of people will use Bitcoin as a currency or a store of value, because Bitcoin has existed since 2009 and it turned out that the majority of people are not interested in such a thing, and even more that they do not understand what Bitcoin represents.

Apart from that, who says that one day in the future a consensus will not be reached to increase the max supply? People did much more stupid things than that...

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Quote from: franky1 on August 19, 2022, 06:06:18 PM

there are only 190,000 tonnes of gold
is that enough for everyone

answer of course yes. no one needs or wants a whole tonne.
no one needs a whole BTC

each btc can be divided into 100,000,000 parts (a sat)

same as how if 1btc is considered "a tonne" 1btc can be considered as 1000x of 0.001btc
where that 0.001btc is like 1kg
where 0.000,001btc is like 1gram

so if most people have devices or tooth filings to have a gram of gold.
with alot more to spare

each person can have 100sat
with alot to spare

And meanwhile everybody keep getting rich just by holding ??

What is the morale behind that ?!

CryptoHeadlineNews

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The answer to the question is that Bitcoin is divisible, and it can be divided into several basic units/fractions just like Gold and our Fiat currency, but the total number of persons in this world can never be able to acquire a whole one full Bitcoin if it is generally accepted, because one thing about Bitcoin is that the higher the demand, the higher the price will increase, making it impossible for people who aren't financially buoyant to get a whole of it but could acquired some fraction of it as there amount could afford.
So the answer to your question is "Yes" because if bitcoin becomes generally adopted, 21million btc will definitely be enough for everyone

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on August 20, 2022, 04:39:02 PM

It is not mandatory that one must own one full bitcoin to be able to carry out transactions in bitcoin, even with as little as 0.00001 btc, one can carry out transactions bitcoin transaction easily.

You are right, even on legacy address, the dust limit is 546 sat or so, even lower if using segwit address, which means presently, people can spend as low as 546 sat.

The dust limit is default on nodes, that does not mean that even 1 sat can not be sent successfully because the dust limit can be changed, not a concensus rule. Which means if bitcoin increase more in value and people have no option than to spend it, the default value would have been adjusted in a way spending 1 sat would be possible.

Quote from: Leviathan.007 on August 22, 2022, 01:58:32 AM

... and the people who own more than one bitcoin will be very rare in the world, but still, there will be enough bitcoins for everyone in the world.

Having 1 BTC is not what that matters if bitcoin keeps increasing in value.

Leviathan.007

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Even if bitcoin is generally adopted or not there will enough bitcoins for everyone the only thing here is the number of bitcoins for each person in the world because if the adoption happens and more people will be attracted to bitcoin and more countries will accept and use bitcoin there will be more demand and more buys and investors which means with the same amount of bitcoin we will have more demand this will make bitcoin very expensive and the people who own more than one bitcoin will be very rare in the world, but still, there will be enough bitcoins for everyone in the world.

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I think the quantity isnt matter even 20billion people or more shares it. The important is its value in thr future even a 0.01 could be a 10k usd each and there would still be enough divisible by the users. Supply and demand affects the price and utility so a fraction of btc could be worth alot even not 1 whole piece of btc.

tranthidung

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Quote from: dezoel on August 21, 2022, 04:38:40 AM

No, the world population is not considered by the time Satoshi created bitcoins because why would he only create 21 millions of it? When the number of population is much higher than that.

Many possible explanations for that but only satoshi knows.

In email to Mike Hearn, it's what satoshi wrote and you are free to interpret it but it can be a full explanation or just a partial one. Who knows?

Quote

My choice for the number of coins and distribution schedule was an educated guess. It was a difficult choice, because once the network is going it's locked in and we're stuck with it. I wanted to pick something that would make prices similar to existing currencies, but without knowing the future, that's very hard. I ended up picking something in the middle. If Bitcoin remains a small niche, it'll be worth less per unit than existing currencies. If you imagine it being used for some fraction of world commerce, then there's only going to be 21 million coins for the whole world, so it would be worth much more per unit. Values are 64-bit integers with 8 decimal places, so 1 coin is represented internally as 100000000. There's plenty of granularity if typical prices become small. For example, if 0.001 is worth 1 Euro, then it might be easier to change where the decimal point is displayed, so if you had 1 Bitcoin it's now displayed as 1000, and 0.001 is displayed as 1.

Anyway, it was set and can not be changed. I don't think of reasons to waste our time to figure out why it was set like that.

Furthermore, having more Bitcoin in total supply is not good for its value. Having less Bitcoin in total supply will make no sense because it will result in non-timing scarcity when the adoption for Bitcoin is not big enough. I think satoshi just did a magical timing set-up for Bitcoin total supply.

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No, the world population is not considered by the time Satoshi created bitcoins because why would he only create 21 millions of it? When the number of population is much higher than that. He is too smart not noticed it but even if the supply is equal to the number of population, there is still no guarantee that every single person will use a bitcoin because not all are educated and not all have the gadgets to be able to start using a bitcoin.

Maybe satoshi didn't increase the supply because he already know that 1 btc can be divided in so many parts and it is hard for a common individual to obtain a whole bitcoin due to its expensive price.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

Do you think the world population was considered during the creation of bitcoins? Was the intention to create enough bitcoins that could serve the entire world population should it be generally adopted, since it is what we all hope for, can the 21 million bitcoins be enough for the entire world population if it is generally adopted? As at 2009 when cryptocurrency began use, the estimated world population was 6,898,305,908, Currently 2022, the estimated world population is now 7,975,105,156. That an estimated additional 1,076,799,248 persons in a space of 13 years. We know this number will not become smaller as the population will continue to increase regardless of setbacks in forms of the pandemic, war etc Will general adoption really work?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population

It is not necessary that when a person wants to own bitcoin it should be 1BTC, when you own 0.00001BTC it is also bitcoin. So I think no matter how much supply there is, there will be enough for everyone worldwide. Not to mention everyone will need bitcoin, there will be people who work hard to accumulate and there will also be people who don't bother about it.

Since bitcoin has a limited supply and cannot generate more than 21 million BTC when bitcoin adoption is widespread, the increased demand for bitcoin will drive the bitcoin price higher, so accumulating bitcoin from here is what we need do.

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21 million bitcoins for the entire world is more than enough, even if bitcoin was just 100,000 units, it is still enough since bitcoin can also be spent in smaller units which we refer to as satoshi.
It is not mandatory that one must own one full bitcoin to be able to carry out transactions in bitcoin, even with as little as 0.00001 btc, one can carry out transactions bitcoin transaction easily.

So personally, I see no problem at all with bitcoins low supply for 21 million for over 7 billion people, but rather, I see the low supply as a good opportunity as this creates scarcity and as demand increases, so will the price increase too.

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Quote from: |MINER| on August 20, 2022, 04:05:04 PM

Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

~snip~

If you ask me this question, my answer would be little diplomatic and that is that bitcoin is not enough for everyone and this is one of the reasons why bitcoin is so successful. As the use of Bitcoin continues to increase day by day, it will continue to become valuable, as gold already is. "Not enough for everyone "Maybe because of this Bitcoin will one day reach a value what we can't even imagine right now

^Why not?
It was already said above that we can even own satoshi and that will become valuable soon and it could be the transaction through the lightning network since the value of miner fee will become expensive too. As of now, we have 19,127,162 BTC circulating supply and I think that amount will be more and we divided it into a fraction number. So it is not 21 million BTC.
You have it if you can afford to buy it, that is the right answer, not the amount of BTC that is to be accumulated.

darkangel11

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I wouldn't even focus on trying to divide bitcoin by number of people in the world because it's pointless. You won't find a single technology in this world that every single person uses and that includes the Internet, telephone, cars and electricity.

There are people who live without power, there are people who live without phones, there are people who never held a dollar or euro, there are people who never will and will die somewhere in East Russia, milking a cow or plowing a field without being aware that there are people who mine a decentralized currency Wink

Bitcoin doesn't have to be enough for everyone but I'm sure it will be enough for those who choose to use it.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

~snip~

If you ask me this question, my answer would be little diplomatic and that is that bitcoin is not enough for everyone and this is one of the reasons why bitcoin is so successful. As the use of Bitcoin continues to increase day by day, it will continue to become valuable, as gold already is. "Not enough for everyone "Maybe because of this Bitcoin will one day reach a value what we can't even imagine right now

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Quote from: samuraijin on August 20, 2022, 10:15:19 AM

If the supply is truly distributed to everyone then of course the price of Bitcoin will increase sharply, but this is on the contrary the price of bitcoin continues to decline, what happens, if we have the determination to collect bitcoin you can play trading if you have capital or can visit freebitco.in to get some Satoshi, although it's quite a bit if you are patient to collect it then you will feel like getting 1 BTC in a year, that's if you are a patient person..

The best way to collect bitcoins consistently is by mining. Freebitcoin only gives a few satoshi and even then it is still limited. and trading must also really be able to do analysis so that the plan to collect bitcoin can be carried out. Mining is the best way but you have to use a mining rig which is certainly quite expensive to be able to mine a lot of bitcoins.
bitcoin is currently still distributed to everyone who knows about bitcoin and some bitcoin wallets that can no longer be opened with large amounts will certainly become bitcoins that can't be taken anymore.
21 million bitcoins will not be fully distributed properly.

hatshepsut93

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At 8 billion people and 21 million BTC that's 0.002625 per person or 262500 satoshis. That's more satoshis per person than USD per person currently. And in Lightning Network it's possible to have units smaller than Satoshis. And also it's possible to upgrade the protocol to divide Bitcoin into smaller units than satoshi.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

Do you think the world population was considered during the creation of bitcoins? Was the intention to create enough bitcoins that could serve the entire world population should it be generally adopted, since it is what we all hope for, can the 21 million bitcoins be enough for the entire world population if it is generally adopted? As at 2009 when cryptocurrency began use, the estimated world population was 6,898,305,908, Currently 2022, the estimated world population is now 7,975,105,156. That an estimated additional 1,076,799,248 persons in a space of 13 years. We know this number will not become smaller as the population will continue to increase regardless of setbacks in forms of the pandemic, war etc Will general adoption really work?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population

if general global adoption were to occur then the supply of bitcoins would definitely run out.
you don't need to worry about that because if the general adoption is successful and the bitcoin supply runs out automatically its value will soar continuously if the demand is increasing and in 1 bitcoin it can be shared or held by several people if the value of 1 bitcoin itself is so high.

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I think whether it's enough for everyone depends on the purpose, kinds of usage and what we mean by 'everyone'. And I honestly don't think an additional billion of people makes a big difference here either.
If you mean enough for everyone to have a bit of money in Bitcoin, then yeah, it's enough. If you mean for everyone to have at least a tenth of Bitcoin, then no, not enough. But since Bitcoin is satoshis, and the price of Bitcoin grows with the increasing demand, 21 million BTC is enough if we remember those things, Moreover, everyone never uses anything. If it's money, we can exclude children, for example (at least to a certain age). If it's Bitcoin, we can exclude all those who don't have access to the Internet and to a digital device (smartphone or laptop). It also shrinks the number of actual potential users by quite a lot.

Mr.right85

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Quote from: franky1 on August 19, 2022, 06:06:18 PM

there are only 190,000 tonnes of gold
is that enough for everyone

answer of course yes. no one needs or wants a whole tonne.
no one needs a whole BTC

each btc can be divided into 100,000,000 parts (a sat)

same as how if 1btc is considered "a tonne" 1btc can be considered as 1000x of 0.001btc
where that 0.001btc is like 1kg
where 0.000,001btc is like 1gram

so if most people have devices or tooth filings to have a gram of gold.
with alot more to spare

each person can have 100sat
with alot to spare

I am out of smerit else, this analogy ought to have gotten a few even though it might have meaned nothing to you. Your response to this is precise and some worth speaks my mind in a way I won't have said it but surely, a lot better by using calculations and another relatively scares commodity.

In response to OP, if we try to quantify and value bitcoin based on its market price today, its surely not going to be enough but, there is no where in all of this where it becomes compulsory that everyone most own or use bitcoin.
The scarcity of bitcoin today is relatively due to it serving for a store of value as an asset which remains a shift from its original intent and this could change in years.

To a point where the least sat 0.0000001 could come with some actual value that could serve a great need. It's a phase and we are getting there, slowly but surely.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

Do you think the world population was considered during the creation of bitcoins? Was the intention to create enough bitcoins that could serve the entire world population should it be generally adopted, since it is what we all hope for, can the 21 million bitcoins be enough for the entire world population if it is generally adopted? As at 2009 when cryptocurrency began use, the estimated world population was 6,898,305,908, Currently 2022, the estimated world population is now 7,975,105,156. That an estimated additional 1,076,799,248 persons in a space of 13 years. We know this number will not become smaller as the population will continue to increase regardless of setbacks in forms of the pandemic, war etc Will general adoption really work?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population

You don’t have to own a whole bitcoin to be able to use it. You can own satoshis and still use bitcoin just fine. Bitcoin is highly divisible. So when the adoption grows, people will be using satoshis instead of whole coins. In fact, it is already happening. Lots of bitcoin users don’t have a bitcoin at all. Most users only own satoshis.

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Quote from: dansus021 on August 19, 2022, 09:06:01 PM

everyone already said it just like gold and can each person can hold couple of satoshi and that is very true
.

but the fact is that currently is very hard to collect even 1 btc Cheesy

because the price is crazy and the current circulating supply already scattered all over the place and the Dormant address still pretty much hold lot of coin and don't forget to people who lost their key or burned the btc so people will get less satoshi maybe 1 satoshi even worth a lot. the btc become like rare earth material

If the supply is truly distributed to everyone then of course the price of Bitcoin will increase sharply, but this is on the contrary the price of bitcoin continues to decline, what happens, if we have the determination to collect bitcoin you can play trading if you have capital or can visit freebitco.in to get some Satoshi, although it's quite a bit if you are patient to collect it then you will feel like getting 1 BTC in a year, that's if you are a patient person..

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All I can say is that 21M is not enough for everyone even if we make it 100M BTC it may still not be enough for everyone to have 1BTC. We believe crypto is for the unbanked but not everyone even have access to the internet. We could say the latecomers will have satoshis, it's still not going to make the wealth distribution fair.

They could just have the altcoins, they are not very expensive as of now or maybe meme coins make sense.

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8 billion people, but about half of them are children so they would not get any money to begin with, for family reasons. So you're actually looking at just 4 billion people.

We don't actually know at which halvening will the current supply produce a value that's enough for the world economy. We can only find this out empirically, by going through each and every halvening in sucession.

Once we do identify an equilibrum though, I'm of the opinion we should hardfork and shut the halvenings off before they become destructive.

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There could literally be one Bitcoin in the entirety of existence, mined in fractions. The finite number of Bitcoin doesn't actually matter. Same principle of supply and demand would apply to any number of coins as long as the supply is fixed. There would just be a greater value attributable to a smaller fraction of coin. Owning a whole Bitcoin doesn't actually mean anything, your purchasing power is what matters. If you own 1/1000000th of a Bitcoin with only 1 BTC in circulation, but that fraction of coin allows you the same purchasing power as 200 kg. gold, then does it matter how small that fraction is?

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everyone already said it just like gold and can each person can hold couple of satoshi and that is very true
.

but the fact is that currently is very hard to collect even 1 btc Cheesy

because the price is crazy and the current circulating supply already scattered all over the place and the Dormant address still pretty much hold lot of coin and don't forget to people who lost their key or burned the btc so people will get less satoshi maybe 1 satoshi even worth a lot. the btc become like rare earth material

tranthidung

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To answer this question, you should read

How is the 21 Million Bitcoin Cap Defined and Enforced?

Creating more Bitcoin in total supply does not create value and reduce the total supply does not automatically result in higher value. You can find altcoins with less than 21M in total supply but they don't have higher value than Bitcoin.

I mean

Inflation: Increasing total supply ~ value decrease
Decrease supply like some altcoins # value increase

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

Do you think the world population was considered during the creation of bitcoins? Was the intention to create enough bitcoins that could serve the entire world population should it be generally adopted, since it is what we all hope for, can the 21 million bitcoins be enough for the entire world population if it is generally adopted?

Why do they think bitcoin is for all populations?, what do they attention?

I know what they mean, they want to introduce something which is more better than bitcoin with only 21 Millions supply, but they always forget that supply will always be enough if split into another units like cents, grams, and satoshi.

For now, we look
1 bitcoin = ...
same as gold, long time ago,,,
1-kilogram gold = ...

but as time as go on
Now, people make calculation
1 Gram gold =..
So, for bitcoin Next 10-20 years we can see,
1 satoshi = ...

Understand?

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Quote from: Queentoshi on August 19, 2022, 05:03:02 PM

. We know this number will not become smaller as the population will continue to increase regardless of setbacks in forms of the pandemic, war etc Will general adoption really work?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population

People can use satosbis, and even sub satoshis.

Fractions of a Satoshi are already in reality in lightning network. A simple fork would make this a reality in on chain transactions, if necessary

It is not necessary now.

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there are only 190,000 tonnes of gold
is that enough for everyone

answer of course yes. no one needs or wants a whole tonne.
no one needs a whole BTC

each btc can be divided into 100,000,000 parts (a sat)

same as how if 1btc is considered "a tonne" 1btc can be considered as 1000x of 0.001btc
where that 0.001btc is like 1kg
where 0.000,001btc is like 1gram

so if most people have devices or tooth filings to have a gram of gold.
with alot more to spare

each person can have 100sat
with alot to spare

Queentoshi

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Do you think the world population was considered during the creation of bitcoins? Was the intention to create enough bitcoins that could serve the entire world population should it be generally adopted, since it is what we all hope for, can the 21 million bitcoins be enough for the entire world population if it is generally adopted? As at 2009 when cryptocurrency began use, the estimated world population was 6,898,305,908, Currently 2022, the estimated world population is now 7,975,105,156. That an estimated additional 1,076,799,248 persons in a space of 13 years. We know this number will not become smaller as the population will continue to increase regardless of setbacks in forms of the pandemic, war etc Will general adoption really work?

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population

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