If btc are in hardware wallet, then how to claim forks?

Pmalek

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 06, 2022, 07:34:56 AM

All those forks are not really free money, because you are exposing your addresses and sometime even your private keys just to receive few bucks.

True, but that's why it's essential to move your Bitcoin off of those addresses before you start meddling with the fork coins, their addresses, and their associated private keys. Those addresses should never be used again, which is nothing new since old BTC addresses shouldn't be reused anyways.

This is troublesome with hardware wallets since you don't get access to your private keys in normal fashion, unless you import the seed in Iancoleman for example (should not be done).

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 06, 2022, 11:44:24 AM

Yeah but it's not so easy to do this for newbies

Agreed.

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they would have to register on many exchanges

Some instant exchangers can do this without registration.

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Oh and I know you have fork claiming service LoyceV Cheesy

It's a very quiet service Undecided

dkbit98

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Quote from: n0nce on October 06, 2022, 11:17:30 AM

Passport gives you 20 'retries', so I guess 21 tries in total. It appears to me that it permanently bricks itself, like the ColdCard, if you exhaust all attempts.
Entering the right PIN once, resets the counter.

Thanks for this information, I think this is better than Coldcard, Trezor and ledger wallets have.
I started collecting this from all other hardware wallets and I found out that BitBox02 wallet is blocked after ten wrong PIN attempts, but I am not sure what ''blocked'' really means, is it bricked or just wiped.
You can see that each hardware wallet have this option set up differently, so I would appreciate if other members could help me collecting this information.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 06, 2022, 11:39:41 AM

This is quite easy to avoid: move your Bitcoins to safety, sign transactions offline, and make separate exchanges on different exchangers for each address you own.

Yeah but it's not so easy to do this for newbies, they would have to register on many exchanges and probably go with some kind of registration with them.
If they don't have Bitcoin held for years in same address I doubt they would earn much.
Oh and I know you have fork claiming service LoyceV Cheesy

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 06, 2022, 07:34:56 AM

All those forks are not really free money, because you are exposing your addresses and sometime even your private keys just to receive few bucks.

This is quite easy to avoid: move your Bitcoins to safety, sign transactions offline, and make separate exchanges on different exchangers for each address you own.

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Not to mention that constantly chasing next fork you could easily get scammed if you are not careful.

It's a good start to never trust any Fork software, and act accordingly.

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 06, 2022, 09:52:36 AM

Quote from: bitmover on October 06, 2022, 09:33:05 AM

I didn't know about this brick feature in coldcard. I saw in their docs that they have an especific pin to break the device, which is called brick me pin

Yeah and Coldcard sometimes bricks even by itself, if it has SD card inside Cheesy

I would like to hear from n0nce and how PIN thing works with Passport wallet.

Passport gives you 20 'retries', so I guess 21 tries in total. It appears to me that it permanently bricks itself, like the ColdCard, if you exhaust all attempts.
Entering the right PIN once, resets the counter.

Quote from: https://github.com/Foundation-Devices/passport-firmware/blob/main/SECURITY/SECURITY.md

The Secure Element includes monotonic counters that enable PIN attempt tracking, where the Secure Element will “brick” itself by no longer permitting login attempts if the maximum number of attempts is exceeded.

dkbit98

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Quote from: bitmover on October 06, 2022, 09:33:05 AM

For ledger nano, putting the wrong pin 3 times is a recommended way by the manufacturer to reset the device. It will never brick it.

I know that works for ledger devices but it's not the same universal answer for all other hardware wallets, so it's not good to give him general answer like you did.
3 wrong pins is low for any wallet in my opinion, for example, Trezor hardware wallet it was 16 failed attempts but delay time was longer each time you enter wrong pin, and after this device will be wiped.
I didn't research in details all other hardware wallets, but it's possible I would do it in near future, this is important for device security.

Quote from: bitmover on October 06, 2022, 09:33:05 AM

I didn't know about this brick feature in coldcard. I saw in their docs that they have an especific pin to break the device, which is called brick me pin

Yeah and Coldcard sometimes bricks even by itself, if it has SD card inside Cheesy

I would like to hear from n0nce and how PIN thing works with Passport wallet.

bitmover

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 06, 2022, 07:34:56 AM

Quote from: bitmover on October 05, 2022, 11:21:22 AM

Just put the wrong pin 3 times and it is wiped out. Just generate a new wallet.

I would be very careful doing this wrong pin entering, and I would never suggest that to any newbie as it can brick some hardware wallets and make then unusable forever.
All hardware wallets I know have option to reset and wipe them from menu settings and I would always choose that option first.
I think that Coldcard wallet get's bricked after entering wrong PIN 13 times.

For ledger nano, putting the wrong pin 3 times is a recommended way by the manufacturer to reset the device. It will never brick it.

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The device can either be reset from its settings menu or by entering three incorrect PIN codes when unlocking it.
Reset from device settings
Reset from PIN code

   Turn on your Ledger device.
   Enter an incorrect PIN code three times in a row.
   The device will reset after the third incorrect attempt as a security measure.
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017582434-Reset-to-factory-settings-?docs=true

I didn't know about this brick feature in coldcard. I saw in their docs that they have an especific pin to break the device, which is called brick me pin
https://coldcard.com/docs/settings

Lucius

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Quote from: bitmover on October 05, 2022, 11:21:22 AM

Just put the wrong pin 3 times and it is wiped out. Just generate a new wallet.

This is something related to Ledger HW, although maybe some other similar devices have an identical number of PIN entries before they are reset to factory values. It is interesting that Trezor allows up to 16 PIN entry attempts before it is reset to factory values, although the delay doubles after each attempt.

Quote from: bitmover on October 05, 2022, 11:21:22 AM

Ofc now those forks are worthless and nobody will get even 1% of their btc value in forks.

It's mostly like that, but there is at least one exception that you probably remember. At the time of the biggest attack on Bitcoin, one of those forks came dangerously close to the price that Bitcoin had at that time, and if my memory serves me well, it was worth about 60% of the price of one BTC. However, this does not change the fact that basically all these forks are completely meaningless in the sense that at least one (and there are more than 100 of them) did something better than Bitcoin.

dkbit98

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Quote from: bitmover on October 05, 2022, 11:21:22 AM

Just put the wrong pin 3 times and it is wiped out. Just generate a new wallet.

I would be very careful doing this wrong pin entering, and I would never suggest that to any newbie as it can brick some hardware wallets and make then unusable forever.
All hardware wallets I know have option to reset and wipe them from menu settings and I would always choose that option first.
I think that Coldcard wallet get's bricked after entering wrong PIN 13 times.

Quote from: bitmover on October 05, 2022, 11:21:22 AM

Forks may be worth a considerable amount of money if they are converted to btc as fast as possible. They are all scams but they are worth money when forked.

All those forks are not really free money, because you are exposing your addresses and sometime even your private keys just to receive few bucks.
Not to mention that constantly chasing next fork you could easily get scammed if you are not careful.

bitmover

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 01, 2022, 03:23:34 PM

Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:50 AM

As much as I know, in order to claim forks for bitcoins which are in software wallet, one needs first to transfer them from their addresses somewhere else, and after that use adresses (on which btc were when forks appeared) with zero balance (for security reasons).
But what if the wallet with btc in it is a hardware wallet?
Should it be done the same way?

Yes. Don't risk your Bitcoins, so send them to a secure new address before exposing the private key to anything else.

Just to add to LoyceV answer, you should create a new wallet if your seed is exposed. Not a new address in the same wallet.

Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 04:42:08 PM

It is possible to wipe any hardware wallet?

Just put the wrong pin 3 times and it is wiped out. Just generate a new wallet.

Quote from: Lucius on October 05, 2022, 05:55:32 AM

I have claimed only one BTC fork so far, and I have not even consumed it in such a way that I sold it or used it in any other way. Personally, I consider all these BTC forks to be something that really does not make sense, and there is no doubt that some of them caused (and still cause) great confusion among potential investors.

Forks may be worth a considerable amount of money if they are converted to btc as fast as possible. They are all scams but they are worth money when forked.

bch for example was worth 0.1 btc when it was forked.

If someone is smart enough and sold all forks anyone could easily increasetheir btc holding by 15-25% just by solding all forks. (it takes some time but it isn't a security problem if you move your btc)

Ofc now those forks are worthless and nobody will get even 1% of their btc value in forks.

I claimed all btc forks that I could and it was well worth my time.
I even claimed the recent ethw fork, which is still worth about 0.01 eth.

Pmalek

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Alternatively, you could wait until the hardware wallet support that fork. That way, you could avoid risking exposing your current private key/seed.

I looked at the supported assets on Ledger and Trezor as the two most popular hardware wallets today. Maybe the information can help OP to determine which of them to use based on the coins they support. Turns out that there is no difference when it comes to coin support.

Both Ledger and Trezor support the following 'popular' Bitcoin forks and forks of those forks:

Bitcoin Cash (BCH)
Bitcoin Gold (BTG)
Bitcoin Private (BTCP)

The following hard forks aren't supported by Ledger or Trezor:

Bitcoin SV (BSV)
eCash (XEC) - used to be called Bitcoin Cash ABC (BCHA)

There are other forks, but I think those above are the most talked about variants.

Quote from: ?? on ??

That's true, although BSV is BCH fork though.

Yeah, but we don't know how long OP has been involved with crypto and which assets he has used and how often to be eligible for hard forks.

Lucius

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I have claimed only one BTC fork so far, and I have not even consumed it in such a way that I sold it or used it in any other way. Personally, I consider all these BTC forks to be something that really does not make sense, and there is no doubt that some of them caused (and still cause) great confusion among potential investors.

From a security perspective, it can really be a nightmare, because I well remember many people losing Bitcoin trying to get their hands on forked coins, and even on this forum there are documented cases of lost millions of $ in value. Some will say that it is stupid not to take "free money", but it is even stupider to lose something that has a much greater value for something that is actually almost worthless.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:50 AM

And the first hardware wallet becomes useless after that, as one cannot hold any btc on it for security reasons?Does it work this way?

Your hardware wallet does not become useless. The purpose of the device is to keep your seed and private keys protected from online attacks. It will do that as long as said keys haven't been entered into a hot/online wallet. If they go online, you can always generate a new seed that the hardware wallet will keep safe.

I have never claimed any forks with my hardware wallet, but I would never put my Bitcoin in jeopardy when doing so. Save your old seed (the one where your current BTC is + the forks) and create a new one. You can then move your BTC from the old to an address on the new seed. If no other coins are on the old seed anymore, you can import that seed into wallets that support the forks and claim them one by one.

But be aware of a thing called replay protection when claiming BSV. BSV doesn't have it, so unless you split your coins before, you could lose one asset when making a transaction with the other fork. Check out LoyceV's Bitcoin Fork claiming guide (and service) for more information about that.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:50 AM

Could you please help me to understand how to claim forks for bitcoins which are in hardware wallet.

All Bitcoin forks have forked Electrum wallet and you can connect those forked Electrum wallets with your hardware wallet, let's say Trezor, and you will see coins available.
Some older forked are already available and you could try if coins are available in native hardware wallets apps, but I am not sure about that.

Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:50 AM

For example, to transfer btc fron one hardware wallet to another hardware wallet, then use the empty hardware wallet to claim forks?
And the first hardware wallet becomes useless after that, as one cannot hold any btc on it for security reasons?Does it work this way?

What forks are you talking about?
It all depends since when you are holding BTC on hardware wallet, and no usable forks happened in years.

Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 04:42:08 PM

It is possible to wipe any hardware wallet?

What do you mean with wipe?
You can always reset hardware wallet and generate or import new seed words, starting fresh.
Transactions and address for old seed words will are not going to be shown anymore, unless you import old seed phrase.

Gorilla22

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Thank you very much!

This explains everything.

It is possible to wipe any hardware wallet?

LoyceV

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Quote from: Gorilla22 on October 01, 2022, 09:59:50 AM

As much as I know, in order to claim forks for bitcoins which are in software wallet, one needs first to transfer them from their addresses somewhere else, and after that use adresses (on which btc were when forks appeared) with zero balance (for security reasons).
But what if the wallet with btc in it is a hardware wallet?
Should it be done the same way?

Yes. Don't risk your Bitcoins, so send them to a secure new address before exposing the private key to anything else.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 01, 2022, 10:26:01 AM

Yes, but you don't necessarily need two devices if that's your concern here. You can simply wipe your device, and create a new wallet (with a new seed).

That makes it difficult to (securely) send your Bitcoin from the old to the new address.

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Or... (this may not be the best solution) if you're going to claim the fork from an address or two, you can use your hardware wallet seed (offline) to export the private keys of that one address, and then claim the fork. But in this case, you should make sure to not use that address in the future, just in case.

I agree: that's not the best solution

OmegaStarScream

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Yes, but you don't necessarily need two devices if that's your concern here. You can simply wipe your device, and create a new wallet (with a new seed).

Or... (this may not be the best solution) if you're going to claim the fork from an address or two, you can use your hardware wallet seed (offline) to export the private keys of that one address, and then claim the fork. But in this case, you should make sure to not use that address in the future, just in case.

Gorilla22

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Hi,

Could you please help me to understand how to claim forks for bitcoins which are in hardware wallet.
As much as I know, in order to claim forks for bitcoins which are in software wallet, one needs first to transfer them from their addresses somewhere else, and after that use adresses (on which btc were when forks appeared) with zero balance (for security reasons).
But what if the wallet with btc in it is a hardware wallet?
Should it be done the same way?
For example, to transfer btc fron one hardware wallet to another hardware wallet, then use the empty hardware wallet to claim forks?
And the first hardware wallet becomes useless after that, as one cannot hold any btc on it for security reasons?Does it work this way?

Thank you.

Topic: If btc are in hardware wallet, then how to claim forks? (Read 209 times)