If Taliban attacks on Panjshir then US and EU must show its full force - why?

Igebotz

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on August 24, 2021, 05:07:33 PM

What I am worried about their situation is the civilian affecting the change of government. The freedom they were experiencing before will not be the same under the Taliban rule.

The Taliban's laws solely apply to women, and their doctrine is simple: women are inferior and should be submissive to their husbands, stay at home and let the guy do the dirty work, and when you go out, you must dress like a true Muslim woman, not like westerners.

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So those civilians who don't want this government, should be allowed to leave from their country and live in the neighboring countries if they want to.

The Taliban spokesman advised citizens to return home rather than risking their lives by boarding a plane and causing havoc at the airport; if they must flee, they should do so legally by obtaining a visa and passport.

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Maybe, just let them rule their country, no need to shed more blood, but let their citizens leave for those who want to leave.

Peace will return to Afghanistan you will see it.

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: Igebotz on August 24, 2021, 04:57:26 PM

Quote from: franky1 on August 24, 2021, 03:40:38 PM

what most people forget is this

1. the US made a contract to ALLOW taliban to take over when the us evacuates.

It was a peaceful transfer of authority that began last year without any bloodshed, as you stated, in order to assist prevent Al-Qaeda from crossing the Afghan border. If the Taliban take control, the US struggle against Al-Qaeda will be a foregone conclusion because the Taliban understand how Al-Qaeda functions and will not allow them to disrupt Afghan peace or use their area as a base.

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3. the ORDERS were to not fight the taliban or prevent them taking over. as the mission was to allow the takeover.

The NATO and US Army purposefully left their weapons at their bases before evacuation in order for the Taliban to have access to them; it was a generous donation and the only way they could do it without leaving traces; with that equipment, al-Qaeda will be a mismatch for Talibans; this is what the US has been planning for the past 20 years but never had the chance to sit down with Taliban leaders after the invasion.

After 20 years of conflict and untold suffering, Afghanistan will once again become a peaceful country.

What I am worried about their situation is the civilian affecting the change of government. The freedom they were experiencing before will not be the same under the Taliban rule. So those civilians who don't want this government, should be allowed to leave from their country and live in the neighboring countries if they want to. We are already hearing news that Taliban shot an Afghan woman just because she was not wearing burqa, which for me is really horrible.
Maybe, just let them rule their country, no need to shed more blood, but let their citizens leave for those who want to leave.

Igebotz

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Quote from: franky1 on August 24, 2021, 03:40:38 PM

what most people forget is this

1. the US made a contract to ALLOW taliban to take over when the us evacuates.

It was a peaceful transfer of authority that began last year without any bloodshed, as you stated, in order to assist prevent Al-Qaeda from crossing the Afghan border. If the Taliban take control, the US struggle against Al-Qaeda will be a foregone conclusion because the Taliban understand how Al-Qaeda functions and will not allow them to disrupt Afghan peace or use their area as a base.

Quote

3. the ORDERS were to not fight the taliban or prevent them taking over. as the mission was to allow the takeover.

The NATO and US Army purposefully left their weapons at their bases before evacuation in order for the Taliban to have access to them; it was a generous donation and the only way they could do it without leaving traces; with that equipment, al-Qaeda will be a mismatch for Talibans; this is what the US has been planning for the past 20 years but never had the chance to sit down with Taliban leaders after the invasion.

After 20 years of conflict and untold suffering, Afghanistan will once again become a peaceful country.

Gyfts

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Quote from: franky1 on August 24, 2021, 03:40:38 PM

what most people forget is this

1. the US made a contract to ALLOW taliban to take over when the us evacuates.
2. EMPHASIS they ALLOWED taliban to take over as long as the taliban prevented al-queda
3. the ORDERS were to not fight the taliban or prevent them taking over. as the mission was to allow the takeover.

yes thats right the taliban takeover was a US planned event they wanted to happen. as oppose to letting al-queda get hold of afghanistan

the US is not going to bounce back in and take afghanistan off of the taliban

the UN is hoping the taliban rush through some democracy and organise a legitimate election to form a real democratic government voted in by the population where the candidates are actually openly chosen

They knew the takeover was inevitable, except they just thought it would take upwards of 2 months, and they didn't plan on Americans having a tough time evacuating from the country.

So of course, the US won't want to go back. It wasn't the original plan, and they know that a shooting war with the Taliban is inevitable if they stick around in the country long enough.

The only circumstance they do go back is if there's some hostage situation that originates with US citizens. The UN's hope of a democracy will end up in the trash can, as we already know the Taliban is already killing dissenters.

cabron

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All countries nearby will have problems harboring Afghans that could be Taliban pretending to be a refugee, even Putin who also took part in trying to subdue that country.
But you'll have to ask why the Talibans become so courageous this time even before Biden pull out the troops?

The reason could be the Chinese needed the county for their Silkroad plan and for that to happen they need a real government in Afghanistan. The Chinese has to recognize a real Afgan government, their own government can decide on its own and the Taliban answers it. The Chinese started legitimizing the Talibans already. It's not just the minerals from their land.

MartinsCoin

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China is also keen to maintain relations with the Taliban. Afghanistan despite being a very poor country, has many minerals such as copper
and lithium that interest China for the development of technologies.

franky1

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what most people forget is this

1. the US made a contract to ALLOW taliban to take over when the us evacuates.
2. EMPHASIS they ALLOWED taliban to take over as long as the taliban prevented al-queda
3. the ORDERS were to not fight the taliban or prevent them taking over. as the mission was to allow the takeover.

yes thats right the taliban takeover was a US planned event they wanted to happen. as oppose to letting al-queda get hold of afghanistan

the US is not going to bounce back in and take afghanistan off of the taliban

the UN is hoping the taliban rush through some democracy and organise a legitimate election to form a real democratic government voted in by the population where the candidates are actually openly chosen

DashingAgent

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So many books, so little time

The people of punjshir can be modernized, they are already anti Taliban, we have to teach them and everything takes time, it is not matter of minutes like whatever we do in trading. We can do everything there related to electronics, vehicles, etc, do you think that japan has resourses? Japan is not modernized yet, even many people cannot speak or understand English. Afghanistan has minerals which can be used to make everything, like smartphones, vehicles, heavy machinary, etc. But I don't care if Europe does not take interest, Atleast US should take interest otherwise if we don't do it then China will do it and Taliban will be given benefit of it.

Quote from: Gyfts on August 24, 2021, 03:11:20 PM

What investment opportunities does Europe have in Afghanistan?

It's not a modernized country, resources might be abundant but you still have to invest the resources to pull out the oil/minerals out of the ground. This is after somehow you eliminate the Islamic racialism in the country - something the US could not accomplish after 2 trillion dollars and 20 years.

Panjshir is going to fall, and Europe won't do anything about it.

Gyfts

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What investment opportunities does Europe have in Afghanistan?

It's not a modernized country, resources might be abundant but you still have to invest the resources to pull out the oil/minerals out of the ground. This is after somehow you eliminate the Islamic racialism in the country - something the US could not accomplish after 2 trillion dollars and 20 years.

Panjshir is going to fall, and Europe won't do anything about it.

jrrsparkles

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I think no country is going to send their military to Panjshir and save the only remaining province/state remaining in the whole country but already Taliban stopped everything and everyone from going in and out of the valley so the state itself will lose to the Taliban but G& countries recently had a conference about the Afghanistan and may be another peace talk, nothing else!

Cnut237

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Quote from: DashingAgent on August 24, 2021, 11:28:23 AM

Giving the whole of Afghanistan to the Taliban would be a humiliating defeat for the G7, after which the G7 countries would lose their status. [...] Our people will not tolerate it.

I'm from a G7 country, and I couldn't care less about status and humiliating defeats. The only important thing at the moment for our nations to do is to protect the innocent people of Afghanistan from the Taliban as much as we can. If governments cared more about people than about posturing and bluster and self-aggrandisement, we'd be in a much better place.

DashingAgent

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So many books, so little time

If Taliban attacks on Panjshir then US and EU must show its full force - why?

The Taliban want to take over the whole of Afghanistan and they can go to any lengths to do so. Giving the whole of Afghanistan to the Taliban would be a humiliating defeat for the G7, after which the G7 countries would lose their status. Because Russia was alone but there were many countries in NATO. It is not difficult for Russia to admit its defeat, but it will be unacceptable for the G7 countries. Our people will not tolerate it. The United States and Britain should occupy all the territory from Panjshir to Tajikistan and name it Northern Afghanistan. This northern part can be developed like Japan and Asian countries can also benefit from the investment of G7 countries here. Because if the Taliban can get $900 billion in weapons, it is not difficult to make Panjshir a developed country by spending so much money on an area like Panjshir. It will also benefit the G7 countries and the investment made in Afghanistan will be easily recovered from it and the people of Panjshir will also be ahead of Taliban Afghanistan in development. Which will be the full revenge of defeat.

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