Topic: If the dollar/fiat was worthless! (Read 609 times)

If the US dollar were to lose its value, numerous countries would face bankruptcy, particularly those holding vast quantities of US dollars. This would trigger a global economic crisis, causing investors worldwide to panic.

Bitcoin, just like stocks, would undoubtedly be affected by this situation. Its value would plummet as many would convert it to cash to prepare for the potential chaos.

However, cash withdrawn would promptly be exchanged for gold. We all know that gold is a valuable asset that withstands inflation and is more stable against economic turmoil. Therefore, many investors use gold as a checkpoint when signs of an impending economic crisis arise.

It's true that Bitcoin's value is often measured against the dollar, but there are certainly ways to value Bitcoin independently of fiat currencies. For example, some people value Bitcoin based on its potential to serve as a store of value, like gold or other precious metals. Others value Bitcoin based on its utility as a medium of exchange or a platform for decentralized applications.

Regarding your question about what would happen to the value of Bitcoin if the dollar were to become worthless, it's difficult to say for sure. It's possible that if the dollar were to completely collapse, people might turn to Bitcoin as a new global reserve currency, which could potentially increase its value. On the other hand, if the collapse of the dollar were to lead to a global economic crisis or war, the value of all assets, including Bitcoin, could be negatively affected.

As for your idea about valuing Bitcoin based on the price of a sack of potatoes, that's an interesting concept. However, it would likely be difficult to implement in practice since the price of potatoes (or any other commodity) can fluctuate based on a variety of factors, including supply and demand, weather conditions, and transportation costs. Nonetheless, exploring alternative ways to value Bitcoin is an important discussion to have as the cryptocurrency market continues to evolve.

The US dollar reading $0 can only happen in the imagination, it can't be what will be experienced in real life. The USD has been existing for too long and during the world wars, it withstood it, during the great recession and depression, it withstood it. I don't know what will be so bad to the extent that the USD will be brought down to zero, maybe if the USA stop being a nation or they change their currency. The new currency will have the power of the USD and the value will remain intact.

With the USD setting to value $0, it will draw the whole world in peril along with it, bitcoin will not be left out, I can't imagine what could cause such commotion.

I don't see a direct relationship between the dollar or fiat affecting bitcoin, because if this is a special reason then the dollar will have played a role in bitcoin so far, but even though the world is facing problems of economic stability such as during the Covid-19 incident bitcoin has even reached its newest ATH. Thus the notion that the dollar/fiat has any relation to the course of bitcoin is self-refuting, there is not a single case that can prove that bitcoin is directly influenced by the dollar/fiat so far.

The dollar is never limited in its creation and this is also part of the cause of recessions due to lack of stability. Moreover, a value that continues to depreciate will bring a level of instability and will affect economic stability in other sectors and even though other factors also have a role such as the value of food needs which is increasing and cannot be controlled in the market.

In 2019 we were faced with major disasters around the world, Covid-19 killed all sectors of human life in the world, starting from the economy, food and industry, but try to see how bitcoin maintains its value and even in the following year bitcoin touched its highest ATH. There is a concept that was deliberately created by some world leaders, that bitcoin must continue to be issued following the dollar/fiat, so that the economic transition related to the dollar/fiat is not conditioned by anyone and they can divert the issue of fiat which continues to depreciate in value.

Honestly or not bitcoin has the same role as the journey of gold in its heyday, where the only way to dispel inflation or recession is by strengthening gold, because a value that never depreciates is a way to deal with inflation or recession, there is a lot of history in the heyday of gold that can be studied and I see the potential in bitcoin is almost equal to the level of gold in terms of tackling inflation and recession.

Yes, it's true, the dollar has a very strong influence on world finances, if the dollar is worth 0 there will be economic and financial chaos globally because the dollar is the world's strongest money, bitcoin will also be worthless if there is a problem with the dollar.

if the dollar becomes worthless, it could happen that bitcoin will have an inflated value when converted to dollars, considering that the basis for determining the price of bitcoin occurs due to supply and demand. it can happen before that many people will divert their money to bitcoin, thus making the price soar, especially for those who have a lot of money, of course it will save it or even make it more

It is also true that Bitcoin is often valued in dollars and traded in many other currencies. However, Bitcoin operates independently of any government or central authority, and its value is not directly tied to the performance of any fiat currency. While the impact of fiat markets on Bitcoin may be managed to some extent, it is still important to consider the potential risks and volatility associated with cryptocurrency investments.

While it's true that the value of Bitcoin is unlikely to go to zero, it's worth noting that the cryptocurrency market can be highly volatile. The price of Bitcoin can fluctuate widely over short periods of time, which means that investing in Bitcoin can be risky.

I think if the dollar become worthless it would be difficult to predict exactly how Bitcoin would be affected. Since Bitcoin is not tied up to any government authority, it may hold its value better than fiat currencies like the dollar. The value of Bitcoin is determined by supply and demand in the market. it may hold its value even if the dollar become worthless. Regarding the cost of sack of potatoes this would depend on  the supply and demand, availability of resources and also market condition.

USD is an extension of the US's military strength, essentially. Take all of the natural resources the U.S. has and that isn't enough to sustain USD as a powerful country with strong currency. We've seen currencies that are tied to natural resources. When the price of those commodities drop, so does the currency. Venezuela is a perfect example of this, being one of the richest countries in the world until oil's price fell. USD is resistant to such fluctuations for the reason they have the largest military presence in the world.

The benchmark for bitcoin in conversion to real currency is not just dollars, so regardless of the dollar being 0 or something else, bitcoin is still bitcoin because they are indeed different and cannot be equated.
The dollar is only an exchange option for bitcoins and in this case a fall in the dollar will not affect any supply in bitcoins because they are still 21 million and that cannot be changed.

But on the other hand, when talking about the dollar right now, even though it's only talking about "if" but I think something like this will never happen, regardless of anything, they will still survive and be strong, even though they are currently in trouble.

maybe if the dollar price is 0 bitcoins will definitely go up crazy a lot and if that happens it's legal bitcoin which will replace fiat money people won't believe in the name paper money because it's clear the value has dropped to 0 but you need to know the money we use every day loses value every day after I know everything about money there is no lag gold back up when money is printed I believe 100% to bitcoin because only 21 million bitcoins exist in the world and are decentralized I am sure bitcoin will definitely replace paper money but with very long time

If given the scenario that dollar lost its value, it means that a big crisis happened and it will also means that other currency are also affected. If the dollar becomes worthless or like what you've said 0 in value, it's a major economic crisis affecting probably majority of other countries and their economy as well. If that is the case, Bitcoin's value will also be affected of course. If most of the economy is going down, Bitcoin will also be on the same path (tho it might not be as big as other fiat currencies). You can't say that Bitcoin will remain as is or will go on the opposite direction since we've seen that when there are crisis, the Bitcoin's price is also somehow affected.

But in really, is it really possible for dollar to become worthless just like that? I don't think so... If the dollar slowly loses its value, another currency and economy will strive to replace the dollars even before it will become worthless.

In my opinion, is determined by the market value of the bitcoin. This is the basis of. If the value of bitcoin is 0, then the value of bitcoin will be 0.

It is premature to think that value of dollar will become zero. The role of US dollar for the world economy is very crucial and it can not be underestimated, as more than 80% of goods and services are still traded in US dollar, which highlights its dominance, as it continues to serve as leading currency for majority of the global trade.

Although Bitcoin is gaining acceptance and popularity as alternative currency, but its volatility is the main obstacle to adopt it world-wide as means of payment.

Right, if Fiat crashes, of course all commodities and investments are also crash, this is because Fiat uses are still greater than Bitcoin users, now too many people hope to replace Fiat with Bitcoin, but if you look at the facts of a small bitcoin user, it seems that the hope is needed long time.

The value of the dollar can't really get to 0, it can infinitely devalue itself against other currencies and commodities based on rapid supply expansion (inflation) and abandonment. Bitcoin would theoretically strengthen relatively to the dollar weakening.


Bitcoin is less dependent than ever on other currency and politics/media is having less and less of an effect on its value, especially during 2023. At this stage it is safe to say that the demise of fiat money is directly correlated with the strength of Bitcoin.


Th dollar won't ever be worth 0 of itself. 1 dollar is always 1 dollar (just like 1 Bitcoin is always 1 Bitcoin). The purchasing power of that 1 dollar and its value against other currencies, like Bitcoin, is what will be effected. Bitcoin does not lose value when the purchasing power of the dollar reduces. Bitcoin strengthens.


Right now, Bitcoin's purchasing power is not a huge highlight because the dollar still satisfies this need and because Bitcoin is not yet adopted to a stage where there is enough data to measure its purchasing power from a local to global scale. I could safely predict however that in the near future, this will become a focal point as the dollar and other fiat currencies become too unstable or invaluable to use for products.

I think if the dollar becomes 0 then bitcoin will also be affected because the dollar currency is a global currency exchange, not only bitcoin is experiencing disruption but all will be affected by the decline.

"Soon, the way Gold is thought to be a safe haven; it will be same with Bitcoin where people will convert their fiat to Bitcoin to protect the value of their fiat against inflation."

I understood you perfectly, and explained why in the future, bitcoin is unlikely to become a "safe haven" in a crisis.
I absolutely agree that everything changes over time, and for example, yesterday's "super reliable Swiss banks", today they are already forced to cooperate in the investigation of crimes and help to find the "reserves" of criminals, which was not there before.

Once again I will explain why gold is not a speculative asset. On the one hand, there is a lot of gold on earth, the lion's share is generally used in technology and not in banking gold or jewelry. But with all this, the whole world has agreed on gold as a kind of measure of value, and everyone accepts it with pleasure, and they know that gold is liquid, and its price is regulated by the market, and it’s almost impossible to manually collapse or pump up the value. These are the characteristics that bitcoin does not have. Although I’ll be honest, any product and service can have a speculative component, it’s just that in cryptocurrency they are close to 100%.

And once again I will give a simple example, from the field of post-apocalyptic scenarios (so that the problem is clearly visible). Imagine - a nuclear war or a terrible natural disaster, the strongest cities, economies, and infrastructures have been destroyed. There is no fuel, electricity, heat. There is a primitive land economy. Products can be exchanged by barter, including for gold, because. money is meaningless. For example, a gold ingot can be melted down, and small "coins" can be made. and trade them for food. And what will happen to the "happy owner of bitcoin" in such a situation? He will die of hunger, simply because he will not be able to use his "wealth", even if we assume that it is in demand ....

In your haste to analyse and fault my position, you subjectively introduced what I never mentioned. For the records, I never compared Bitcoin to Gold. I wittingly posited that just as Gold is thought as a "Safe Haven" now that's how Bitcoin would likely be considered as one in time to come. Come to think of it, if you ever traded Forex you would've understood better my position. There was a time the Swiss Chef was considered a Safe Haven and a lot of people pegged their money on it.

BTW, isn't gold a speculative instrument as Bitcoin?

Oh, really? This clearly shows you aren't a trader. Please, check trade data and you will observe how volatile Gold is.

I'm in shock that you're arguing this way. Really?

You admit one erroneous opinion, and from this you draw erroneous conclusions. The mistake is that you consider gold and bitcoin to be similar assets. But the problem is that it is not. Gold has a real value formed by demand, "traditions", the complexity of mining (utility), and some other indicators. Bitcoin has a speculative price and wild volatility, but nothing like the properties of gold. In addition, in times of crisis, gold is very liquid, and for it you can just buy bread, but what about bitcoin? No way .. You can’t buy bread for it, and even matches ....

The threat that fiat, including the dollar crash, can certainly occur at any time, especially now that more and more people or countries are leaving the dollar and switching to other currencies, and in my opinion, the power of fiat will decrease because it has proven unable to solve economic problems, especially inflation.

First off, there's no way dollar can dip to zero. That's one. Secondly, let's hypothetically say it does crash to zero; it will rather have a positive impact on Bitcoin rather than the reverse. Bitcoin will soar higher. Haven't we seen enough of this work out for years now? Inflation has eaten deeply into the dollar, consequently dollar continues to exchange lower to a Bitcoin. My projection is that price disparity will even get worse in time to come. Bitcoin price continues on an upward movement while dollar and other fiat continue to slip.

Soon, the way Gold is thought to be a safe haven; it will be same with Bitcoin where people will convert their fiat to Bitcoin to protect the value of their fiat against inflation.

Dollars rate crash to zero it will definitely affect bitcoin, I know quite well that bitcoin calculate in dollars, but as a digital currency bitcoin take can maintain a little value or the values remain constant as I may likely see, because I can recall when dollars falls bitcoin maintained it values, the place I think that it will affect someone using bitcoin mostly is when you comes to exchange of bitcoin to dollars, the value will be reduced dramatically.

That's an interesting thought experiment. For the value of the dollar to go to 0 there would be some very bad situation before, likely could be that the US government prints so much Dollar that they become worthless, or the inflation starts to go into hyper inflation also making the value of 1 USD to drop to 0. Alternatively the US economy could collapse and also making the currency to collapse. The question then would be if consumers start to switch to other means of payments, like bitcoin or gold. Trading in gold is not really feasible as most people only own it in form of jewelry which you can't really break down in small parts. Bitcoin would be a great way to make purchases directly between producers and consumers, but I can't imagine want kind of prices it would be. Given that if USA is in economic crisis the rest of world will likely be too, there would be high demand for bitcoins and prices should rise quickly. Probably already for a few Satoshi we could be buying our daily food supplies.

Slowly the value of fiat will continue to decline, unstoppable inflation is an indication that fiat is increasingly difficult to compete, moreover the state printing fiat does not consider supply so that the value will continue to decrease, a different matter if the state considers gold and silver to print fiat.

I have been carefully following up with the explanation of both value and price rate and I think it's quite clear now with this your further explanation, so let me get this straight, bitcoin value remains the same with other fiat interms if purchasing power but it can change in price against the dollar since its still for now the world currency but the value and price could still be the same with euros and pounds but the only difference is that this three currencies mentioned who only gain in prices against the US dollars. It's seem clear enough but if am still not getting it please clear me further on this.

Read my comment again! As I said, in that scenario bitcoin price in dollar would also go up and it would be be worth $56,000 meaning if you sell that iPhone for dollar and get $1600 you can still buy the same amount of bitcoin 0.02854BTC not more.

I'mt not saying that either. I'm saying that everything has a "value" and because of that value they gain an exchange rate when exchanges for something else. That something can be dollar, bitcoin, gold or groceries! As long as that value remains the same, the exchange rates remain the same too. But if value of one of these (like value of dollar) changes the exchange rate of everything (iPhone, bitcoin, gold, etc.) against dollar would change.

the dollar is only a unit for comparison in the world so that it is easier to benchmark as if it were chosen as a universal currency throughout the world, but indeed the dollar is not doing well, but isn't there still a lot of currency in the world that might be more appropriate as a comparison which is already worldwide, and of course why worry about all this, because there are many ways as an exchange rate

If the dollar is worthless, we can compare Bitcoin with gold, oil, gas, rice, burger, cigarette, sake, iPhones, Netflix, and other goods. So, I don't worry about it.

I don't know why people out there always compare Bitcoin with the dollar?, I don't know why it's necessary because our local exchange didn't use dollars but Rupiah. So if the dollar is worthless, I will compare it rupiah to buy goods, or if all fiat is useless, I will go to Elsavador to buy a burger. Simple.

don't worry, we wouldn't die without dollars.

In theory, there are certain ways but in reality, it won't happen.  There is a government that has authority over things here on earth.  Besides, there are different authority that has different views and beliefs that often contradicts themselves.  This is another reason why there are different global organization because not every one are in agreement with each other.  With this situation in hand, it is impossible to create a transition from centralization to decentralization let alone the government accepting decentralized currency to dictate its financial activities.

Dollar/fiat

So what you are basically saying is that if the dollar loses half of its value today, you can buy the Iphone for 0.02854BTC, then you could sell it again for 1600$. And buy 0.05708BTC for that money you earned from the Iphone sale. And keep on doing this until the price of bitcoin catches up. But if I understand you correctly you are saying that as long as goods and services are priced in bitcoin, there wont be a problem with buying and selling in bitcoin, which is really a given - but how do we get to this point? And more interesting if that iphone is priced in bitcoin and it is also priced in dollar, euro, yuan etc. how will this affect eachother?

Like now the norwegian krone is worth much less compared to euro and dollar, which means that it is cheaper for europe and america to buy salmon from norway today then it was a few months ago.

Its almost a certainty that Dollar goes to zero, purely on precedent.  Every FIAT currency has failed, the only question is after how long does it fail.  I think Sterling might be an exception possibly a couple others even then if you consider sterling lost 99% of its value its not too far off the Ruble which swapped 1 new Ruble for 10,000 old Ruble or in layman's terms it was wiped out.   In effect these paper promises always will fail but can last decades, obviously the bank is larger then any person or entity that opposes it but the tide and natural dynamics that make up the basic studies of economies force all currency to zero value.   The reason is the promise relies on people and in politics especially that means its a lie.

You missed a very important point,Bitcoin is also convertible into other currencies,so even the theoretical fall of the dollar to 0 will not greatly affect the price. Yes, of course, at first there will be a panic in the market and Bitcoin will lose a lot in price, but it will definitely not cost 0 .This is its main advantage, it is freely convertible both in currency and in goods as well and can be exchanged for a service.

First of all I don't think it could be ever happened that dollar goes to zero . I don't think there is any currency in the world that is worth zero. Although the value of the currency depends on the reserve assets of that country Since dollar America is one of the strongest countries in the world currency their currency will not depreciate so easily. Then comes the issue of bitcoin price drop, bitcoin price does not depend on dollar, bitcoin is completely different decentralized currency whose value in future will be 1btc=1btc dollar price drop has nothing to do with bitcoin price drop.

1. It is difficult to imagine a situation of global depreciation of the dollar. This can only be connected with the disappearance of the US as a state. Therefore, the probability of such an event tends to 0
2. Even if we assume that something happened that led to the real value of the dollar at 0 - the next step is the global stagnation of the world economy.
3. The value will have assets that can be easily exchanged for real money. or assets with real value.
4. Based on paragraph 3, the cryptocurrency, which is today a purely speculative asset, becomes a dubious asset for a long period, and accordingly loses its value. Well, let's not forget - today cryptocurrency is not a real means of payment, which means that its significance is also falling.
5. The distribution of cryptocurrency among the population is one of the most uneven. This means that most people simply will not be able to use it as an alternative to solve everyday problems of buying and selling goods and services.

You can paint the consequences for a long time, but in the end we still come to the conclusion that the value and cost of the cryptocurrency will be greatly reduced.

All of the above is just my personal opinion.

You are again forgetting the difference between value and price. Things are not valued in fiat, they are priced in fiat. Value of all currencies (dollar, euro, yuan, bitcoin, yen, ...) is in their purchasing power.

Lets say bitcoin price is $28000 and you want to buy an iPhone that is $800 so you pay 0.02854BTC. If dollar tanks and loses half of its value today, you can still buy the same iPhone with 0.02854BTC tomorrow even though at that time bitcoin should technically be worth $56,000.
This is the difference between value and price in simple terms. Bitcoin value and the iPhone value remained the same so you paid the same amount of bitcoin for its purchase despite the price of both bitcoin and iPhone going up against dollar.

To answer your question, we don't need any system for transition. Bitcoin is a stand alone currency that does not rely on fiat currency of one country. The market may be affected because it is still a small market and market participants are known for their emotional reactions but that's about it.

Price of the bitcoin would be least of your worries if dollar would hit zero. I am positive that internet money would have some value for some people, but just lack of liquidity and all the panic ensued because dollar dropped to zero would most likely wipe all interest and respect for experimental internet money. They were volatile before all the hell broke out so why would they survive absolutely apocalypse scenario? And this chaos wouldn't be inside united states only. Imagine that a world biggest superpower just lost all the power they had. The imbalance itself would cause wars when countries would try to fill it. It would be hell on earth and probably nuclear war. So i really wouldn't bet on bitcoin then.

I think the OP needs to see the value between fiat/fiat or bitcoin, to me they can both be seen as life tools. As socio-economic changes in positive or negative directions, I gradually realized that what we are talking about is an intangible value built on trust. So don't be too forceful that they will follow a scenario that ties each other, the usage may be common for some cases but they also have its own distinct character.

bro, you just dropped a banger of a question about bitcoin. What if the greenback went boom? It would be mayhem! But let's be honest, it's not gonna happen. Bitcoin is a free currency, man. No government or group controls it. It's for the people, by the people. The price of bitcoin is based on how much people want it. So, if the greenback lost all its value, other currencies would step up, and bitcoin could be the next big thing. As for the sack of potatoes, man, who knows how much it would cost in a world without the greenback? But it's gonna be pricey, that's for sure. Time to start stocking up on chickens, amirite?

Depends if people and governments would choose to move in digital currencies such as Bitcoin as an alternative but at this moment, such thing would seem to still be impossible. The decline with the value of fiat currencies are due to economic situation at this point in relation with inflation across different countries. Also, there are many crypros to choose from which has a more stable value, then how can we assure that they'd choose bitcoin over the others then? Its impact with this industry is for sure a spike on its value but won't be continuous. Also, for sure government of U.S. won't allow its currency, one with the biggest ones, to be worthless so they'd probably do something about it. Bitcoin is not ready yet to be a mode of payment to normal citizens, and this is because of instability with its value wwherein a problem may arise afterwards.

As you say, there is only one possibility that bitcoin will become the world currency recognized by all governments. That sounds unlikely because countries like the US or China they have very strong currencies, they would never let that happen. Even if USD goes to zero, there will be a new currency to replace and everything will be measured in it, bitcoin is no exception.

Bitcoin's decentralized nature and limited supply make it a unique and valuable asset class that can be used as a store of value and investment. While the value of the US dollar may decline over time, BTC's value is not directly tied to any specific currency or region. As such, BTC can continue to hold value even if the US dollar were to become worthless. So, BTC's fixed supply makes it a potential hedge against inflation, which is a concern with traditional fiat currencies. It is important to understand that Bitcoin is a complex asset with its own set of risks and benefits, but it is not simply a currency that is subject to the same market forces as fiat currencies.

Yeah it goes that way, right now fiat is getting less and less valuable and it has been for the past 3 years or so, and we just need to realize that bitcoin gained value thanks to that. Back in the day 20k was our highest price in 2017 December, and up until 2020 we haven't seen above that, and right now we are "crashed" at 28k, that alone should be a big example, we reached as high as 68k which is a proof that we have done as well as we could hope for.

That's more than enough for me and I think that dollar (and all other fiats) will lose value and we are going to end up with something much better for bitcoin price, the more these fiats lose value the more price bitcoin gains and we will break above the current ATH very soon, in a few years time.

If Bitcoin is a commodity which only traded in US territory, it's true when Dollar turn to be worthless, Bitcoin will become worthless too. But Bitcoin is a currency and it can be trade in anywhere, so when the Dollar turn to be worthless, it will not affect Bitcoin price because people it doesn't have any relation with Bitcoin. Dollar is already worthless, you can check the buy power of $1 in 1800 and $1 in 2023 is completely different. But many people still use it because the price is still same even though the buy power is already different.

Organizing the economy and making transitions in which there will be absolutely no damage is a super difficult thing because the thinking of every human being at this point is not always the same so that one cannot apply the same thinking to this matter. Because as long as there are one or two people who still want to create chaos in the economic sector for their own sake, of course there will always be damage to this sector and there is no smooth word in it.

Then Bitcoin or any other crypto currency by then would probably have too little to no value at all. People who still owns them would only probably see them as collectibles that hold historical value because having such a scenario happen would mean that the whole world is already on its worse state. Meaning, the only thing that would probably be used to get services, things or food would be trading for whatever each party needs, like basic necessities, services or whatever. And if ever, people would rather utilize gold, silver and any other valuable natural resources more rather than crypto.

Yes, what you said is correct, but I do not mean that the dollar can go to zero in reality, but this is just an assumption.

Yes, the dollar continues to decline due to more and more printing, so its purchasing value will continue to decline, while Bitcoin, on the contrary, has a limited quantity, so it either maintains the value or rises continuously with the decline of the dollar.

I mean, in the end, even if the dollar completely ceased to exist, this would not be a problem for Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has its value in it.

Treasures are generally considered as money while USD is a currency. People would use money to get anything they need, bitcoin is a currency authorized by a decentralized network and not to be seen as a means to solve the problem if USD goes to zero, as it's not generally accepted by everyone in the world. Hence, in a situation like this people can run back to treasures like silver, gold, oil etc as means of transaction. These natural resources are needed by everyone in everyday life, so people with the most treasures will be considered rich, I don't think everyone would run back to bitcoin if fiat goes to zero. Bitcoin can be affected too if that happens looking at how fragile bitcoin is and how it gets affected if the world economy is in trouble. Bitcoin is an alternative, yet I don't see a world where everyone will use bitcoin as the only means of transaction. Gold, and silver have been existing as money worldwide and it has never been recorded anywhere that everyone in the world accepted only gold. Anything can be money depending on the two persons involved in the transaction, between Julius Caesar exchanged his Daughter to Pompey for thousands of Legions as bride price. In a nutshell, don't feel disappointed, but the world can't run completely back to bitcoin as the only means of transaction, it's impossible. That's why you cant rap it around your head how it'll occur for everyone to own bitcoin and transact with bitcoin. I thought about it too.

Dollar cannot go to zero; instead, its value and purchasing power will keep depreciating. more dollars will be required to buy less bitcoin. For example, if $1000 was used to buy 0.02 BTC in 2021, in the future, as the demand, value, and price of bitcoin will continue to increase, even $5000 may not be able to buy 0.02 BTC. Well, it's just a mere speculation, but also something that could turn out to be true. Currently, 0.02 bitcoin is worth $558, but if the bull market creeps in and 1 bitcoin begins to trade for $80,000, someone will need $1600 to buy the same 0.02 bitcoin.

1BTC will always be worth 1BTC even if the dollar goes to 0.

This is my opinion and the opinion of many here who believe in Bitcoin. It is true that at the present time we are always forced to compare Bitcoin with the dollar or another fiat, but I am optimistic that in the near future we will not have to compare.

At that time, you could buy anything via Bitcoin directly without exchanging it for a dollar or any other fiat. This may seem difficult at the present time, but I am sure that this will happen in the future.

Perfect! So everyone that could not provide any services or sell any goods would not have the posibilites to buy bitcoin at that time. This would make the transition to the time where fiat is no more very complicated... while there are probably 1000 other things to be worried about at that time.

But lets say we would want the world's economy to be completely decentralized with no fiat, and no inflation politics. How could we create a smooth transition where there won't a complete havock?

Yeah, and that is a big problem. Lets say you had some sort of mechanism that would give that bag of cement a given value, and it will allways be that value. a bag of cement will allways cost a bag of cement. So if the Nigerian 1000 Note was like bitcoin, it would be more worth in the future because of its deflationary effect. That would mean that in time you could buy two bags of cement 1 for that 1000 Note.

We can look into that in theory, if all fiat currency goes 0 valuations, and only Bitcoin has worth, then as I stated, 1B=1B.  Depending on the Bitcoin market valuation, fiat currency now has no purchasing power since all of them goes 0 in value, then Bitcoin will be the global currency and can be used to purchase goods and services.   The worth of Bitcoin depends on the market valuation and how much to pay for 1 loaf of bread is dependent on that.  

Bitcoin can't be interpreted in any fiat currency since the situation, in theory, is stated that all went to shit, meaning fiat currencies are equivalent to 0 valuations.  We cannot give any conversion if one factor is equivalent to 0.

Great answer! What kind of system could we create for a smooth transition were everything would be valued by something other then fiat which would not be affected by inflation?

That's exactly the problem with fiat currency, the currency always looses value overtime and this always result to massive inflation in the economy where as bitcoin always reflect the opposite of inflation as more adopt it and that's what makes it very unique. Let me use the fiat currency in my country for example, before now like a decade ago the Nigerian 1000 note can actually get you a bag of cement and some buildings materials but due to the excessive printing of the currency it has lost it value totally as you cannot even get a good meal at the restaurant with your 1000 naira note.

What people did back in the day when there were no currency? They traded goods for goods. It's all about demand and necessity. If you need 2 potatoes, but the only option you have is to trade 3/4 onions. And that's the only option you have in this situation. So you will be willing to trade that for the 2 potatoes. Because you need it.
So if you compare that potatoes and onions with Bitcoin and goods, then you can easily value it without the help of USD. It's just easy to do it if you compare the value of BTC with USD. That's why people do it. We just need a new system and calculation for every item with BTC's value, and then you can get the actual value of BTC.

I may have explained in a complicated way. But it is what it is. Demand is the key for value.

  -   You said this accurately and correctly, because maybe others thought that when the value of the dollar goes to zero, a Bitcoin will also have a zero value.

They maybe think that bitcoin was only dependent on the value of the dollar, then there would be no exchange happening now between Bitcoin to Euro, Bitcoin to Yuan, and other fiat in different countries, meaning even if the dollar has zero value, we can still exchange bitcoin for another currency/fiat to become real money.

Bitcoin price isn't pegged to just dollar and I don't know what might happen to dollar accepted countries if Bitcoin drops to zero but I think it might increase the demand for Bitcoin which possibly might increase the price of Bitcoin as well..
Remember Bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency and as such has several other importance like serving as means of payment, investment and also as an asset for the future.
Just as others have stated that one of the major reason why most currencies loss it's value is the excessive printing of those currencies making it's supply much more than the demand and you should also know that Bitcoin has a limited supply and it's volatile which means it can easily fall or rise.

Currencies of other countries depreciate over time because they print money indiscriminately, when there is a crisis, they only know how to print money and print money, which gradually accumulates into a large tumor and will explode. It's only a matter of time. Meanwhile, the supply of bitcoins is limited, and almost impossible to generate more once mining is complete. With an asset with a finite supply and high demand, everyone will be scrambling, so saying bitcoin will depreciate like fiat is entirely inaccurate. The value of a thing decreases when the demand for it is gone, or they become too much, things that are scarce and in high demand never lose value.

The main difference between fiat system as it was established and today's fiat is that it used to be based on the Bretton Woods management. The dollar was not created as a stand alone currency but as a representation of 0.88 g. of gold bullion. The way I and many bitcoin supporters see it, that system was good, but it wasn't flexible. Banks wanted more freedom in management and a system where strict rules don't apply, thus since the 70s the value of dollar to gold is constantly going down and it will continue to go down. It used to be under $200 per ounce in the 70s right after they dropped the gold parity and reached $2000 in 2021. That's how worthless the USD is becoming. With the current rate of exponential dilution it's going to reach 10k USD per ounce before the year 2035.

I think that we'll also have a big rally in all decentralized assets and commodities. In the next 10 years you'll see a spike in oil, rare metals and minerals, gold and silver, bitcoin. There's no way around it because even if they were to bring back gold parity it's too late for that, the peg is too far gone to now make a new dollar worth 0.01 of the dollar from the 70s.

OP, reminds me back in the day when people used coins or shells for transactions and now everyone sees how valuable it is in today's life when we have $, and other fiat... So don't just impose the current context that will last forever, over time it will be replaced with convenient things suitable for life at that time. Don't bring bitcoin into the story like that, I think maybe you will understand if one day we will pay directly for goods via crypto.

This won't be an issue if the goods and services that are offered in the market are priced in bitcoin or in its smaller units You can go to a grocery store and buy an item that's worth 100 satoshis for example. The main  point there is that  People can still give it value even if fiats don't exist. It can also become useful even when society goes back to the gold standard.

I agree.

Not only dollar currency is the one we can use globally, there's a lot of currencies out there but those people who are using dollar mainly on their county will gonna have a big problem, unless every store and services on their place will accept Bitcoin as a payment or any cryptocurrency. Dollar having 0 value however is somehow not possible as of now since it is in the hot trend since 2022 because of FED raising interest rate from 4.5% to 4.75% according to forbes.

We are just using the USD as basis to determine the value of Bitcoin. Euro can also be used and so do Rupees.
And I would not think about the future of Bitcoin if USD value suddenly crumbles. That will mean a lot of things is happening in the world, one reason could be war.
You would not want that currency going down because I am sure they will go far in putting it back to the top currencies in the world.
But to just answer the question, no, Bitcoin will not be worthless even if USD goes down.

Yeah I think that's what most people in the Bitcoin world wishes, for bitcoin to become a fiat currency.

But it would be difficult if the dollar were to lose its value and bitcoin were to replace it as the dominant currency. A loss of value in the dollar could cause economic instability for every country which could lead to a crisis. This could also lead to widespread job losses, business closures and a decrease in the standard of living for many people. More people may turn to bitcoin as a store of value and medium of exchange and yes, it could increase its value.

I doubt that Bitcoin becoming a fiat currency and replacig dollar would happen anytime soon because most governments and central banks are still wary of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies because of their decentralized nature and lack of regulation. Let's not hope for the dollar to collapse.

as more and more people adapt bitcoin, prices will change and it will always increase, unlike dollar that it can be printed anytime, bitcoin on the other hand has limited supply in which it makes it more valuable. i have to agree with some collectors that people are actually attracted to what we called as "exclusivity", this is when something is of limited amount, people will try their hardest to obtain that exclusive item and would try to brag that nobody else has this kind of exclusive thing. same as bitcoin the more people/demand increases while the supply is only limited, of course it is only to be expected that the value is very high.

in terms of reserve currency, we all know that there are several countries who are trying to appeal to the world and announced their currency to be the next reserve currency, and it is also to be expected that it won't happen anytime soon.

But of course the government would take action before it reaches 0, US wouldn't let their fiat money to be worthless as their currency is carrying the country's name. However, if that ever happen then for sure it will have a good impact to the market of Bitcoin. Still let's not forget the economic status of the country if their currencies turn to 0. It might have big issues that people couldn't care about currencies anymore, more like chaos for survival to their essential needs. It might replaced by Bitcoin its still an decentralized system with volatile situation for it to run in a country.

Well, if the Fiat currencies (US Dollar) collapse, Bitcoin will just take it's place... so each Satoshi will be worth so much more and you will ask for X amount of Satoshi for whatever goods and services you want to buy or sell.

A Satoshi will also be worth a lot more than what it is worth now, so you should not be too worried about the value and it having to be linked to any Fiat currency. That is most Bitcoiners dream.. for Bitcoin to replace Fiat currencies. 

Very interesting question, especially on the value of Bitcoin which you think is very dependent on the value of the dollar. Basically I don't think that the value of Bitcoin depends on the value of the dollar even though the dollar existed much earlier than Bitcoin. I say that because Bitcoin will never lose its value if everyone can still make transactions on it (Bitcoin), even though there are still very many people who measure the price of Bitcoin using dollars so it's also natural that you have time to think about what if the dollar becomes 0.

And I think it won't bother Bitcoin at all because everyone can still use another currency to measure the price of Bitcoin in the market. That's why I don't think the value of Bitcoin depends on the value of the dollar, because other currencies can also be used to buy Bitcoin and vice versa.

I think Bitcoin is not a parasite that has to depend on any fiat in this world even though many people buy Bitcoin using fiat. So there are no specific ideas or ideas to express here if you think Bitcoin is dependent on fiat which has never occurred to me before.

Dollar to zero is almost impossible, the US economy may weaken and be surpassed by other powers but will not be able to collapse or disappear completely. So, USD can depreciate and be replaced by another currency, but it can't go to zero.

But no matter which currency is ruling the world replacing USD, they have nothing to do with bitcoin, 1BTC is still 1BTC, and the value of bitcoin will be determined by supply and demand. But if there is a crisis in the monetary system and the USD is toppled, that will be an opportunity for bitcoin because then people will quickly find another safe asset to move their assets.

Bitcoin might not have an intrinsic value but within it self it has an equivalent for all currencies in the world, as such if Dollar drops to zero it will still maintain it's value in other currencies that has value and if those currencies faces inflation it will give more value to Bitcoin and Bitcoin value to Dollar will as well skyrocket

Secondly Dollar is a global reserve currency so if by any means it losses it's value another currency will replace it and Bitcoin will still maintain its fiat equivalent for the new reserve.

Bitcoin is not only traded for dollars, but also in other fiat currencies. Therefore, even if the dollar becomes worthless, bitcoin still has value as it can be exchanged for other currencies that are not worthless. Therefore, this would not be a problem for Bitcoin per se. Maybe they would start trading it only for gold or other precious metals instead of fiat money. But who can really say what will happen if the dollar becomes worthless. Either way, 1 BTC remains = 1 BTC and as long as you can buy things with it, everything is fine. 

Of course it will be difficult to achieve something like that. Up to now it has been the easiest to calculate its value in fiat currency and I think it will stay that way for a long time to come. But maybe one day it will only be traded for gold or other precious metals or commodities. Maybe also against water, should that be scarce and worthwhile. But even gold, etc., gets its value from being exchanged for fiat money. So basically it would be no different than now. Therefore, it will surely always remain difficult to give bitcoin the right value it deserves without using fiat money. 

I have been listening to this theory from the time I was a kid that USD is losing its value and will crash soon. But this is something not happened till date. Even if USD crashes then there are other fiat's lined up to take-over as global currency like chinese RMB.
The case of bitcoin is different, it is created as a separate entity that allows peer to peer cash transfer without intervention of third parties like bank. So its very obvious that it will exists in parallel to current fiat system. As Bill gates said, "Do not compare yourself to others. If you do so, you are insulting yourself" likewise there is no need to compare bitcoin with anything.

What have you understood so far is bitcoin as a representation of the dollar or the same with all existing fiat? Please find reasons why they're traded with each other.
You answered it, but exactly it's not an effect of either one.

If the dollar were to become worthless, it is difficult to predict how this would impact Bitcoin's value. On the one hand, if the dollar collapses, it could lead to a global economic crisis and panic, which could cause a temporary drop in the value of all assets, including Bitcoin. On the other hand, if people lose faith in fiat currencies and turn to alternative forms of currency, such as Bitcoin, its value could increase.

In terms of Bitcoin's independence from fiat currencies, one solution is to increase its adoption as a means of payment and store of value. As more people use and hold Bitcoin, its value and stability will become less dependent on fiat currencies. Additionally, developments in blockchain technology could also improve Bitcoin's independence and efficiency as a payment system.

It's a bizarre question really, as Bitcoin is much more likely to go to zero long before the US dollar ever does. If the US dollar fell to zero then there is something very wrong with the world and we're most likely facing some sort of apocalyptic type scenario where nukes have been unleashed all over the world and people are trying to live via subsistence. The US is currently the reserve currency of the world and it has a lot of resources in action that are trying to protect that status, even if newcomers like China are trying to change that status quo. Bitcoin could simply not handle the amount of transactions that the US dollar does every day, so it's never going to be in this sort of position to supplant it.

bitcoin is currently often valued in dollars, and what if the dollar suddenly becomes worthless, then bitcoin will be valued based on fiat which was popular at that time. well, it doesn't matter what the dollar is worth, but bitcoin is bitcoin. it is very different to the dollar. bitcoin is only too often valued in dollars. maybe if bitcoin is no longer valued in dollars, then maybe bitcoin will be valued in euros, yuan, or fiat which at that time people were busy using. It's just that, if we think about this, I think the price of the dollar will never be 0. especially now that the dollar is still an international currency.

The dollars losing value would be positive to Bitcoin as then Bitcoin value won't have to be relying on the cash value of the dollars, this could make people see Bitcoin for its worth and it might becomes the new global currency or better still another fiats takes over. We have began seeing the US dollars lose its international dominance as deals are been done in other currency instead of the dollar.

If this continues then soon the US dollars will lose it significants and another fiats takes over. The value of Bitcoin will always be intact and the collapse of other countries fiats won't have any impact on Bitcoin instead we could see more interest in Bitcoin as people look for safeguard to store their money and Bitcoin is the most accessable.

If the United States as a state continues to exist, then its national currency - the dollar cannot fall to zero, that is, it will absolutely depreciate. The United States has huge material reserves, a huge economy and this will not allow the dollar to depreciate. But if the dollar for some reason falls sharply in price, this should not significantly affect bitcoin. Because bitcoin is not tied to the dollar in any way. It’s just that bitcoin will practically cease to be valued in dollars and will be valued in other successful fiats - euros, pounds, yens and even yuans.

In terms of a big disaster like a nuclear war or a big calamity that destroyed the internet and electricity, things will obviously return back to the old days like the barter exchange. If you want a sack of potatoes and there are no more governments running effectively and there is destruction everywhere, I will not accept your dollar for sure. You need to pay for the goods with something valuable as well, maybe gold or other goods like chickens as you mentioned. I am not sure how bitcoin survives without internet. But I have a feeling that soon, all parts of the earth will be covered by internet even during huge disasters, the use of satellites will be further enhanced. Bitcoin will become more valuable by then even if the US dollar becomes worthless or with very low value.

It is unprecedented for fiat to go down to zero even with the nonstop printing of it. The value of it will crash hard when they print it a lot and also in case of dollar when the world abandons it and all the supply goes back to United States itself but it will cause huge hyperinflation not drop down to zero.

The effects of that on bitcoin is only a massive price rise because bitcoin's value doesn't magically change because of value of dollar ergo as dollar value dumps if bitcoin value remains the same it has to massively rise in "price".
Of course the market is so much more complicated than that. For example when the price rise starts it also attracts more investors hence increasing the value and price a lot more.

P.S. keep in mind that there is a difference between price and value. Price is measured against fiat and has different ups and downs in different fiat currencies depending on the value of that fiat. For example when Bolivar dumped, bitcoin went up against it while remaining the same against dollar. When dollar dumps it will be the same, bitcoin will go up against dollar while remaining the same against other fiat currencies (of course as I said it could attract more investors which leads to its rise against those too).

It seems to me that you have no idea about economic issues. Coins almost never go to 0, they lose value until they reach almost 0 compared to other currencies, but they don't go to 0 overnight. And in this case, the dollar even less.

When enough time passes, any fiat currency becomes worth almost 0 relative to its original purchasing power.


They would cost much more than they do now in numerical terms, just look at the examples of hyperinflation in Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic, but the issue is not about price increases but about the devaluation of the purchasing power of the currency.

You just worry about protecting yourself against currency devaluation. Owning bitcoin is a good way to protect yourself, but not the only way, and you should stop worrying so much about hypothetical scenarios.

Let assume an  event where the dollar or other fiat currencies goes completely bust. Very unlikely to happen and if that does happen, we will see a global economy collapse, which we really don't want right now...
But we are assuming if that might happen, people might actually turn to Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies since they're not tied to any government or central bank and completely decentralized. In that case bitcoin and most of the crypto currencies might become more valuable since there are limited supply. For the sack of potatoes you want to buy, you probably have to determine how many potatoes you will get for 1 satoshi (the market will eventually decide based on demand and supply).

It won't happen now. Not anytime soon. If you want bitcoin to be independent of fiat currency, you have to convince people to use Bitcoin only for making all kind of transactions. But most people only hold bitcoin to make profit and sell it for fiar currency.

When USD goes to 0 means there will be another country's currency to replace it, and it will be a new measure of value in the world, bitcoin value will be measured in the new currency. There will never be a total collapse of the fiat system but a mutual replacement, and I believe things are beginning. If the USD collapses, I wouldn't be surprised that the Chinese yuan will become the new world currency. Many countries are starting to use their own currencies to transact with each other instead of USD, and the yuan is the most used alternative currency.

Well, let's just say that imagination ends with imagination. If not, there is no way a country's currency can probably turn to zero value; the only time this can be possible is if the country is no longer in existence. If, however, the currency is still being used for day-to-day trade, there is probably a value attached to it. 

If the dollar happens to be devalued and nothing is attached to it again but other currencies still exist and value is being added to them, it will only affect the BTC price for some time and not the value. BTC value is being placed upon the high or low demand for it. So without the dollar, BTC can easily adjust to other globally accepted currencies and pair with them. BTC is not tied to the dollar, and as such, the fall of the dollar can't be the downfall of Bitcoin.

More likely the opposite would be true because so many people store value in Dollar.  If a situation becomes obvious it will likely move business done in Dollar towards alternatives.  My own take is the majority of FIAT currency trade will remain in FIAT and just move to another large government backed entity such as EURO or possibly China backed currency some believe that due to its size.   Its also true that more people would likely use BTC and it doesnt take alot of people to make a large difference in supply and demand.

You can answer your own question by asking the price of your house in money, in bags of coal and in packets of sweets.  The number probably will rise as the exchangeable item becomes less worth but the value of your house is not determined by Dollar or anything else, its main worth is via its usage.   Same for BTC, it is valued from usage but we do also have alot of speculative trades on top but still it will be fine in turmoil.

The conversion is happening in dollar but it's possible that there will be other means of conversion that it would be like in Euro which it does really have. But regardless of that, bitcoin = bitcoin and that's not going to change.
Before being worried that dollar will go to zero, I am sure that there will be other means that will be proposed to the economy on how this problem is going to be addressed like bitcoin/cny is going to be the standard then since everyone is talking about the economic surge for China. As of now, everything is going to be all about speculations and no matter what happens, bitcoin's value is never going to be gone together with the collapse of the USD or any other currencies.

Many people don't care about the dollar price. I haven't owned any dollars in a long time. Last time I held a dollar bill in my hand was in 2012. Dollar's acceptance is also greatly overestimated. Even in the EU you'll going to have a hard time finding someone to sell you stuff for USD. You'd have to use a currency exchange, or overpay by a lot to get someone to trade with you.
What if it goes to 0? Other fiat currencies will explode because for it to go to 0 people would have to be selling it and the gold reserves of the US and its economy would have to be insufficient to pump the price back up. I don't think it's ever going to happen. They FED will see it coming and make a tactical retreat by changing a name of the currency and relaunching it as the digital dollar or something similar. They're going to make the reset without the people knowing that it's the reset. Their whole job is to protect the currency, even if it means sending the military to steal some gold and secure an oil deal, the way they did in Iraq.

I don't know what apocalyptic end your predicting but, do you really wish for this or do you see it by any chance happening?
Technology have come to be and not even a world war III is going to knock it out of existence. Instead, we might experience quite the opposite as in war times, its about who can come up with the best inventions to tackle the times and we wold have the rich try to make the most of the opportunity by providing a from space network.

Dollar is just some exchange rate, a scale fir measurement as a standard and nothing more. Should dollar fade away which is almost not possible, there would be another to replace it. So long as we've got Internet and could access it, it doesn't matter of the dollar fails.

Great answer, but what if all other fiat currency went to shit aswell?

If the dollar goes to 0 then Bitcoin will still be 1B = 1B.  Bitcoin valuation in terms of fiat currency will be interpreted in another currency if the valuation of Bitcoin in dollar is somehow impossible (dollar getting 0 valuation).  Bitcoin fiat valuation or equivalent can be presented in pounds, yuan, euro or any other fiat currency.  After all dollar is just another currency of thousand that is existing in the global market.

Yes of course. This is just a hypotethical exercise. I guess I have to edit the subject 

Yes, but the printed dollar does not go straight into bitcoin. Which means that the value of bitcoin also decreases as the value of dollar increases.

Let's not rush to judgment about news of dedollarization. There are many things that don't look good now, but I wouldn't rule out anything from the USA, everything seems to be political and the USA looks very calm. Although it may look like they are playing it safe, the dollar is still doing well despite all of the news. Although bitcoin is valued in dollar and traded in many more currencies, the impact of fiat market can be managed

Bitcoin is not Dollar and the problem with dollar lossing value is because it's being excessively printed, where Bitcoin has a limited supply which can never be increased.
 The value of bitcoin will increase over time as long as more people continue to adopt it. Apart from the dollar, the devaluation of fiat currency in most countries is so bad that even a thousand dollars cannot  be used to purchase many things on the market.

What happens to the value of bitcoin if the dollar goes to 0? Will bitcoin also loose value because the dollar is worthless? yes, there would probably be other things to mind like world war, full panic, no internett and so on. But set these things aside. How much would a sack of potatoes cost, and with what could I buy these potatous witth(gold/bitcoin/chickens/etc.)?

Any ideas? and any ideas on how bitcoin could be independant of the dollar, or other fiat?


I see a lot of good ideas here.

The reason for this thread is to explore if there are some other ways to value bitcoin. Like many of you said, it would probably just hop over to the next largest currency. But do we want the bitcoin to allways be dependant on another currency and its inflatory politics? Many of you also said that the dollar will never go to 0 and there is no reason to worry about this. But every currency in the world is loosing value everyday. Therefore bitcoin is also loosing its value. it may be a stupid question, but would it not be better to have another way to value bitcoin so you could allways buy 1 sack of potatoes for 1 satoshi for exampel?