Topic: I'm surprised this hobby and genre of crypto collectibles isn't more popular (Read 1012 times)

I really just like having loaded items, though now they are starting to seem more of a liability. But definitely the reason I like them is because they ARE actually Bitcoin. Buyer-funded coins or peeled coins just never appealed to me, I still prefer to have funded coins. I think my initial thought was that if I was to ever sell the coins that we might get a bigger premium because it was funded (assuming other people desire funded coins as I do). Before when BTC wasn't too much, selling one of these coins wasn't such a big deal, but now its like you pretty much gotta fly the damn thing to the buyer. I had thought about Stacks Bowers, but if by some chance you didn't get what you were looking to get it would be a shame.

When you mentioned about a loaded item becoming "unspendable", why might that happen? Could you paint me a scenario. I know a bit about dust attacks, but never really thought how they might affect loaded coins.

I usually buy collectibles because I like them in some way.  They speak to me.  They mark the journey that I went through.  I do not expect them to gain value in any way vs holding bitcoin.  But I only have one life, and I do like to enjoy some physical things once in a while. Therefore each buy in carefully considered against just buying bitcoin instead.   

Recently, I've noticed that while some of the quality of some items has drastically improved, the premiums are just way too high.  On top of this, my concern is with loaded items.  Now that we know that the "dust" on main chain will keep going up due to fees, why are artist STILL making pieces with small amount of sats on mainchain on those physicals?  I'd much rather have an unloaded item that I like in hand, than having a loaded item that will become unspendable some day (and that i paid much higher for!)  The premiums are already through the roof... I just don't get it... Is the goal to ultimately have those traded like an opendime?   

You gotta be careful talking about that dirty bitcoin transactions called ordinals around here… Maxi’s hate it. Even tho one could argue it’s the only thing keeping miners in business and profitable. I can say that ordinals have paid for every physical crypto piece I have purchased for the last year and there’s a couple producers that I buy every release from. On top of that - it has made it fun again.

As collectibles go - I find it easy to trust the keys and the makers IF they exude confidence in themselves by the way they act, talk, and sell their products. They also need to demonstrate great organization and attention to detail.  It’s a basic trust that they are not keeping the keys AT ALL EVER and ALL keys are destroyed once printed. As we saw with Yogg, some lying piece of shits will keep keys with a plan to rug at some poin, but there were obvious warning signs (loans, unfilled orders, sketchy behavior). The longer a creator is in this space and doesn’t have issues - the more trustworthy they become. My current trust list is - Squirrelbits, MyBits, Lealana (although customer service sucks), Alpen, CypherHodl, CI if they ever put some more stuff out, Mopar Mining LLC (if I need keys made safely)—- probably a few others but these were easy to think of.

I see this market growing. I collected vintage silver/gold hand poured bars before this. I used to be able to pick them up near spot price or a few bucks over. Now some bars are 10x - 100x times spot or more. All it takes is time and new collectors. I imagine when these kids that have bitcoin get older, they will want to buy our bags. But hopefully sooner than that lol

If bitcoin hits $1m, I would imagine there would be a lot of peeling going on... at that price point, what is your level of trust to that maker who produced the keys?
I would think it would be hard to find a buyer who is willing to shill out that much fiat in the hopes that btc will still be there in 5-10-20 years.

I have peeled many good coins and have been duped a few times. Most recently were a few Microsouls that had missing characters in the private key making them unredeemable and the btc trapped forever.
Another user (rxalts) redeemed a Lealana XMR coin where the private key had started to fade and became worse at time passed.

Even at this price point, I have recommend to some to redeem their coins versus having to deal with the logistics of transfer.

Is the 1000 btc coin really worth 1 billion at that point?  not really...   the btc may be worth that, but what is the value of the coin itself?
That's like folding up a $100 bill and taping it to a $1 coin...  "Now this coin is worth $101" 

I have thought about all of this quite deeply. I come from a family of collectors, antique dealers. Grew up collecting coins, sports cards, and am quite knowledgeable in all types of collectibles.

Nobody knows anything about crypto, nobody has any idea about these crypto physical collectibles. I believe these collectibles will continue to rise in value, but it will be a niche market (just like it is now). So many people are already priced out on these things. The only people I see really buying these things is people who made some money on BTC/crypto and stumbled upon our forum or rich Boomers who sit at home and bid on auctions for things they don't need.

Unfortunately, the younger generations don't care for silver or gold or physical collectibles really. I wanted to gift my nephew and niece some Silver Morgans instead of giving them cash for Christmas and they couldn't have cared less. Last bull run, I absolutely loathed NFTs, but then I started to see how the younger generation absolutely vibed with it. So many of those kids spend countless hours on role playing games gaining xp and trying to get rare objects. So NFTs were kinda like a real world version of it.

Just this year I started following more about Ordinals/Inscriptions/etc. and I think that is going to be the ultra collectible item. Rare sats/early sats, sats from significant transactions,  maybe alot of you already know about this stuff. But these are the things normies can probably afford. But I can only imagine when BTC hits some incredible dollar values (i.e. 1 million per BTC) that sats will become some of the best and most liquid BTC memorabilia (and certainly nobody can scam or rob you on those and everything can be verified and stored away safely). And honestly, as much as I hated NFTs, because Ordinals/NFTs are on BTC, I kinda like some of them and even bought a couple "blue chips", hahaha. Perhaps I can accept it because i just see the opportunity to potentially gain more BTC. But I still feel like these kids that made it big on ETH NFTs last cycle are constantly searching for another win and Ordinals on BTC is something they can vibe with and we still more and more of that money cross over to the BTC/Ordinals NFT ecosystem.

I love my physical coin collection and I'd probably never even sell any of it, but I think only older rich folks are the ones who will "buy our bags", people with too much money looking to diversify their investments a bit. Last cycle a good buddy of mine was telling me how Steve Aoki (a famous DJ), just aped 10 million bucks worth of sports cards to put some money somewhere else. Our collectibles are way better than that garbage, and certainly much more rare and scarce. It still blows my mind people are paying Tens of thousands of dollars for such common baseball/collectible cards that flooded the market 1989 and onwards (i.e. pokemon card, Ken Griffey Jr rookie card, anything after 1990 for sure). But now that the BTC ETFs have been approved all these Boomers finally accept BTC as a real thing. I imagine that sentiment will carry over into the numismatics world and demand will grow amongst traditional coin collectors.

One concern of mine about the physical collectibles is if BTC does hit a million and I did want to sell the coin who is going to buy it? Not sure its ever happened, but has anyone ever peeled a perfectly good legitimate coin and something was wrong? Private key unreadable or just not there? Pretty big risk by the buyer at that price point. I would really hate to peel any of my coins.

Perhaps in the future a mainstream BTC/crypto physical collectible will catch on, something pretty well marketed and mass produced, then from there people will research earlier collectibles and these things will really become popular. If BTC hits 1 Million, then someone with a 1000 BTC Casascius will be hodling a billion dollar coin. That will be something the media might jump on and normies would have to take notice.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

I feel like for the bitcoin talk meet up group We should have those name tag stickers that says “hi my name is,” and let people write in their forum screen names. 1: it’ll help us identify people, and 2:  if people want to remain anonymous with their real name it gives them an option too.  (Just a thought)
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Not a bad thought at all ^^ Yeah they are there for good, I guess I missed that very crucial detail I thought they were just experimenting but no, here it is: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-conference-2024-goodbye-to-miami-say-hello-to-nashville/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWe%20believe%20that%20Bitcoin%20Nashville,to%20thrive%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20Bailey.

I'm not able to make it this year, but the conference will mature when I plan to go the next year Its a bit of a treck for me but I think it'll be worth it. Plus I have some pretty good friends in nashville actually. I have always wanted to go there.

I’m quite shocked that only 3 people owned any. Very surprising. Hopefully a few were lying to you, as Andreas says it best “never talk about your bitcoin” or something like “no need to discuss bitcoin amongst, that what I’m here for”. Essentially just speaking the importance of keeping your finances private, as well as helping keep your bitcoin potentially pseudonymous.

I’ve done a little “study” of my own. I’m an FA by trade so I’m speaking with people about their finances all day long, and of all the people who’ve told me they own bitcoin, NOT ONE had theirs in cold storage or even knew what a hot wallet was/is. More of a lack of investor intelligence and laziness than necessarily being early IMHO. However no doubt that plays a sizable role.



Always good to see new faces on the forum, especially when it has to do with collectibles (same reason I signed up 8 some years ago). As glad to see you’re planning to make one yourself. I would be happy to help guide you down the “right path”. At least my version of it.  Please feel free to DM me.

And that's just the space. You need to bring everything else. Tables, chairs, banners, etc.
On top of that you have insurance and labor costs and......

Booths at shows are not cheap.

-Dave

BTC  Media the host of the conference is based in Nashville, so I am guessing the conference will be in Nashville for coming years...   just a guess
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I feel like for the bitcoin talk meet up group We should have those name tag stickers that says “hi my name is,” and let people write in their forum screen names. 1: it’ll help us identify people, and 2:  if people want to remain anonymous with their real name it gives them an option too.  (Just a thought)

I was told the booths ranged from 15k to 25k - mad crazy expensive.

Thanks m8!



I feel like James and the team would definitely welcome the idea! I am curious if they will keep the conference in Tennessee next year as well? Man I hope they bring it back to Miami! I am pretty sure they will after they hear all the folks flying internationally & hear of all the hassle they had to go through just to make it this year they might consider it. But who knows. I am so down to either try and partner up for something like that. I know one thing is for sure that if i'm going next year I sure won't miss the Btalk physical crypto collectors meet up  Last years was so dope, although it was a little crammed and didn't really ideally get to meet every single person there and get to figure out exactly who they were on here but hey we will all eventually meet each other as long as we keep up over the years
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BTC  Media the host of the conference is based in Nashville, so I am guessing the conference will be in Nashville for coming years...   just a guess

Good thread tread! lots of good discussion


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Thanks m8!



I feel like James and the team would definitely welcome the idea! I am curious if they will keep the conference in Tennessee next year as well? Man I hope they bring it back to Miami! I am pretty sure they will after they hear all the folks flying internationally & hear of all the hassle they had to go through just to make it this year they might consider it. But who knows. I am so down to either try and partner up for something like that. I know one thing is for sure that if i'm going next year I sure won't miss the Btalk physical crypto collectors meet up   Last years was so dope, although it was a little crammed and didn't really ideally get to meet every single person there and get to figure out exactly who they were on here but hey we will all eventually meet each other as long as we keep up over the years

Booths aint cheap... pretty sure Mopar told me normal cost was around $25k ?? not 100% sure though.....
Maybe something partnering with James at Stacks and Bowers would be pretty cool.

Good idea!
I know my paintings aren't your classic collectables, but I'd participate with a print or two, especially Bitcollector seems appropriate for this kind of occasion.

I’m probably not the first one to propose this idea, but what if we got a Headstart for next years 2025 bitcoin conference and we all chipped in to have a booth that’s strictly for the bitcoin talk collectible section? it would give us enough time to raise funds for a couple security guards and We’re logistical planning and tables and banners. I would be willing to donate the first $500 in Btc, we could have MJ Escrow the fund.

Would love to know everyone thoughts 🤠

Altogether and overall a very positive discussion about crypto collectibles. Another
question I want to ask based on the above points about the space being in its infancy,
has the activity on the "Collectibles" board increased over the years?

I think it has become more streamlined towards crypto collectibles, I think I remember
a good few years ago that Lesbian Cow was selling a lot of FIAT collectibles for example
but FIAT collectibles rarely come up now.

In terms of new makers, I think the preference generally would be for the items they make
to be buyer funded, if they would be pre funded I'm playing it safe and hold'ing off.

I think physcal crypto coins have barely broken the surface.  I can tell you that of the 30 or so 25 - 45 aged people I have worked with over the past few years, only a handful even owned cryptocurrency (I'm counting dogecoin to or it would be only 2-3). Even those that know about and own crypto - have no clue about physical crypto coins. They don't understand how you can have bitcoin on a wallet or how you could redeem it. I would say we are early. Stacks auctions are bringing some attention, but it could be better.  Maybe have James do a direct link to the collectibles section instead of just mentioning the forum (I could reach out but I'm sure there are others who have a lengthy relationship with him... I just buy and converse on whatever issues I see with their listings... he's a good dude tho) - I can tell you, the collectibles section is hard to find if you are a newbie and just stumble your way to the forum homepage.

At this point in time, it would be very hard for me to trust new makers.  I'm talking people who just come out of the woodwork and want to produce coins.  Besides the trust in the maker, you also have to trust that the maker knows how to safely and securely make keys. Mopar has like a 10 step process that is very involved and very safe... I need to know they produce keys to that level of security. There are just too many shady people in this space.  And you can tell it by the way they talk, sound like some lying leviathans always talking in circles and can never be straight forth and honest.

Either way - this space is still early. When btc skyrockets up and people (collectors like ourselves... most people I know in this space also collected something else before) start to see themselves being priced out of certain makers, they will fomo in and buy.  - I know cuz I was there, and I did it.

Good thread tread! lots of good discussion

I definitely would have to agree with you here, if it wasn't for folks like Alpencoin and Polymerbit & so many others keeping this hobby alive then eventually all this section would be is only a place to find some of the few remaining Casascius or BTCC coins left that at some point will become too expensive for most to aquire unless they are already peeled.

I think that having variety and especially coins that keep up with the times & portraying relevant current events help to frame those events in history in our unique space and also represent the lifeblood of our hobby.

Surely you will come across the scum of the hobby who steal the coins and appear to be good people but then stab you in the back. That is unfortunate but that is the sheer nature of cryptocurrency and frankly the sheer nature of this world unfortunately.

I am very bullish on the outlook of this space and I for one am very excited for what new makers and new coins will bring, a fresh perspective and hopefully new and innovative designs & types of coins.

I think right now we are in a fragile state with recent current events but I think we are not far from having a lot more demand and interest flooding in, especially when Bitcoin strikes fresh new ATHs & some of the original makers and even new makers break records in auctions sales and the press & other celebs bring attention to it.

Stay vigilant my friends! Have a positive outlook on this hobby because the best may have already come but we sure have a heck of a lot more to look forward to in my book.

I think a lot of people do collect but a lot of them don't talk about it.

Personally I used to do more but realized that a lot of what I was collecting was just going to wind up in boxes or in storage and never get displayed so I have been sell off a lot and cutting back on what I buy.
When I posted this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-why-is-davef-selling-all-this-stuff-all-of-a-sudden-post-5455887  a year ago I had a few people reach out to me for some items that I have never seen in the collectables section of the forum.

I have also had a couple of non crypto people reach out asking for other things that they knew I had when I was selling off some other stuff for items they wanted to collect. BUT, they were not and still are not known as collectors. So there it probably a lot more out there that just value their privacy and unless they reach out to you about it you would never know.

-Dave

Thats an interesting view C, my thinking is that there should be constantly new makers
making themselves known in order to help progress. Maybe a new Alpencoin will be
born tomorrow, who knows?

If we were all just hunting Casascius and BTCC there would be no Alpen, Cypher, Polymerbit etc.

I would like to hear more about why new makers will be a think of the past?

I like to see new makers appearing but I like it more when they expand and continue
to create rather than a one off offering.

How about Kim Kardashian?  I remember when she posted this.  I texted Kialara who hadn't seen it yet.  We were both pretty taken back, as she had over 100M followers at the time.  I despise her and her family, but no denying she one of the worlds most famous people.  Or how about Apple Co-founder, or former US president "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" (he did lol).  

When Kim posted that, I don't think most had any idea how to find out what it was /where to find it.  However articles were written about it, for example (https://cointelegraph.com/news/kim-kardashian-west-raises-stakes-with-bitcoin-in-charity-poker-night-out).

Some people figured it out and every Kialara on ebay sold right away.  I happened to have a duplicate bar and it sold for 3 x normal price and immediately. I'm not sure if Max/Kialara had anything available on his website at the time, I will have to ask him. Definitely curious how sales went around that time if so.  



( https://thebitcoinnews.com/kim-kardashian-receives-her-first-physical-bitcoin/ )
Matthew Roszak gifts funded Kialara’s to other prominent individuals (US President Bill Clinton and Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak









Moses is my boy.  He found me on Instagram  "PhysicalCryptocurrency", was brand new to collectibles and I remember spending quite some time teaching him the space.  Which lead him here.  



As for everything else in this crazy thread that kind of reminds me of the old days, I will say I think a good amount of you guys are off base.  I'm not sure if I'm a lying leviathan spirit, which I kinda hope I am as I think that's hilarious.  I also don't believe in "god", so I guess I'm going to hell where theres a red guy with horns and what not.  Bible versus, that's a new one.  

New funded collectibles are becoming and should be a thing of the past.  This isn't hate, or misinformation or anything like that, it's just how it is and should be, quite frankly.  Anyone can say or think whatever they want, but I know this space as well as anyone (sans MinerJones and Tweetious).  Most new makers just don't know what they are doing or how to appeal to the general collective.  I would say for any newer makers, take a page out of Alpen Coins book.  Despite being funded, which I know even he is on the fence about doing, he's the perfect example of how to become a new coin maker whos appeals to the masses, and does things right. I hold Frank in very high regard as his execution and continued progress has been great.  

Old funded stuff like Casascius and BTCC will always remain popular/desired/etc

First of all - I love the idea of this thread and all the discussions so far, thanks to all involved.

I'm not that knowledgable in physical collectables, but I'd add a couple of thoughts from my (artist) perspective.

I see what most of us are doing in our different ways as charting unexplored areas in a developing land that's similar, but different to known parts of our world.
What we are doing is valuable, because it builds a bridge between the digital and the physical world.
That helps people see value in crypto and enriches its domain, especially bitcoin's.

We need to be patient and continue doing what we love.
It might be similar as with impressionist painters, they were frowned upon and discarded as non art at first but look at the value of impressionist art today.

Cheers.

I am a newbie here . I definitely joined because of physical bitcoin. I am actually working on my own crypto coin (like everyone else). It will be some time before I am there. I am going to produce doge and shib coins , if I make it. I have metals and am starting with sand casting, but will probably move up to a coin press before I make the leap. Any recommendations/advise would be welcome. Actually, any advice is welcome. I actually anticipate this market growing considerably. As crypto sees wider adoption, I am betting on these increasing in value, just because the crypto will increase in value .
I note that large coins sell for a lower premium. Not a lot of people with $7m on hand. Asking $14m for a 10 bitcoin token seems steep.

Speculation on speculative currency is risk on top of risk. I’m in. This is the future!

This, exactly this.

I don't think people are ready for this whole crypto thing yet, we should give them more time to get accustomed to the idea.

It's not just technical literacy, it's also the ideology of satoshi that must be learned in-order to get a larger perspective. 

I was at a bar in Brooklyn, NY last summer and was doing a public poll for my own entertainment to gauge sentiment.

I shit you not I asked about 300 people in the span of the day about Bitcoin. People from age 21-35 and only 3 people owned Bitcoin, and of those 3 only one had it in cold storage.

We are so early with Bitcoin itself it is no wonder why the Bitcoin collectibles space hasn't taken off yet.

I suspect it might be another 10 years before Casascius coins get any real traction.

had you spent the same amount in actually buying Bitcoin and held it, you would have more value than what the coins are now worth.

They did have an epic showcasing of Cass coins at Bitcoin 2021 Miami & I think that definitely garnered a lot of interest in the space, I forgot about the physical showings of these I need to add that one to the list. I snapped a photo and Chibitcty posted it onto his physicalcryptocurrency account a while back if you want to dig down and look at that. It was truly quite the display. There was a comment that there needs to be a new encyclopedia made and I couldn't agree more with that as so many new coins have come out of the wood works since the last one was made. I wonder if Elias will ever update?

other factors must be taken into account.

It's not easy to become a collector. many of us come from other fields (numismatic, philatelic etc - my username has "bollo" inside. this is not casual = francobollo). many other bitcoiners, although in love with the technology and the world behind it, simply do not want to spend money on crypto-themed objects.

that's another factor. the cost.
when I started interfacing in this world/forum M. Caldwell was still active on this forum.
But I would never have bought one of his products because with that premium I would have simply invested that amount in the direct purchase of coins...
my fault. the same I had with bitcoin, it took me a long time to understand the innovation/vault of these stuffs.

Some time ago I also posted a similar thread, wondering why art galleries "snub" our sector.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.64100969
and considering that I care much more about values ​​and certain ideals, I am organizing at my own expense here in Italy a 3-day exhibition/conference in which to talk about bitcoin/crypto collectibles themed objects (last weekend of September)

I will give you all the details in the next few days, we are finalizing the contract with the art gallery.
Meanwhile I have reached some fellow collectors and artists, more to come...

Why is the hobby not more popular?

From my interactions with people out in the world, I find that many people are simply not ready for anything remotely related to do with crypto.

Many people are very accustomed and used to the working of the fiat system. It may take a death of a generation for crypto tech to catch on and be used widely.

Many people lack basic computer literacy skills, like IP addresses, the parts of a computer, computer software.

Attempting to teach someone who barely knows how to use a computer to begin-with how to use a non cusodial wallet and send complex trasactions is a massive challenge.

Crypto will only catch on after people make a decision to begin educating themselves on the subject matter. Until then the fiat system will remain prevailant.

Sadly, the last time I remember Selassie posting was when I was new to this forum & he got scammed with a fake listing of a Denarium Gold Parity coin. 

maybe you have missed the red trust that has been left against him? or the flag that was raised? as for your coins accumulating Bitcoin - they do indeed or rather your address accumulates and if we reach threshhold (after another 15-20 years) you will pay out to our address. Mine has been accumulating for 3 years and I am at less than 6% of the way to reaching the minimum for distribution. So, if I am lucky and based on the average gains, I should reach payout in another 94 years - in which time we will be dead and you will never have to make the distribution and whoever gains your Bitcoin will not have to worry about the seats - they can just spend it.  I bought the coins to go in my collection because they are historical alright. Historical in recording the ponzi.

I would say the massive amount of BTC that has been scammed by shady people selling loaded collectibles is what keeps this hobby from being taken seriously.  Not to mention creators that don't scam their customers are attacked by alt accounts of other creators in an attempt to funnel customers away from them leaving new users unsure of who can be trusted.  Until it's more clear who can be trusted and who is just trying to get some easy USD pretending to be friends with users here in chat rooms all day to fleece their "friends" with overpriced goods, I think this hobby will continue to struggle.  Just my $0.02 as someone who has been heavily involved in this trade for more than 13 years.

Edit: I shouldn’t name names. I apologize.

I think about this frequently. I could be wrong, but think the answer is simple. People barely understand Bitcoin, let alone physical bitcoin collectibles.

In public areas like reddit, people mostly do not know the difference between a Chinese knockoff of the MJB coin and a Casascius. Understanding public addresses and private keys are complicated and a funded coin makes no sense to most.

yes that is g moses (as he goes by in several other channels such as telegram) - he stole my idea lol actually we kinda both came up with the idea around the same time.

George is like my brother - very good guy. and man you give donations of items? make the sucker pay, he can afford it lol

his account was locked here and he has been unsuccessful in getting the admins to unlock it and he has refused to make a new forum account as far as I know.

  There was a guy here selassie soldier? who is planning on opening one in FLorida someday.

  I have even donated some of my CypherHodl items just for the museum, including a Smart Contract Timelock Clock redeemable in the year 2100 

  Also, with the fallout of Skamkey I have seen OG's selling their Bitbills and Cas coins.

  I think that is a big factor in people making any decisions from getting into our hobby...especially with the high end loaded items.

  

Yes - security would be a definite need.


what I would love to have is a space where I can have my 3d printers, my lasers - basically my shop - set up, but then also have display areas for all of my collectibles and any that anyone else would want displayed, have areas where people can display pieces for sale (like consignment) they could also then list them on sale on various sites and if they sold, I would simply package/ship them out, a space for VR - where people could enter Bitcoin/crypto VR spaces - I know of at least 3 that exist now and I am sure there are others. A gallery for art etc

Before COVID I was looking at a building that could have done this but they put the sale on hold (due to covid - I think the seller got sick) and then I spent a lot of Bitcoin helping family - most who lost jobs due to covid - for example several of my daughters were servers so the restaurants laid them off.  Not to mention our unemployment system was broken, would crash repeatedly so it was hard for them to even file their weekly claims. I also used 2 Bitcoin to pay off my mom's house.

Needless to say, when it calmed down and the kids were going back to work, I was down about 5 btc and could no longer entertain getting the building - which had also nearly doubled in price.

I still hope to do this one day though

security would be the biggest cost, but to se something up to have it at the bitcoin conference would be amazing, just like they do the mini art gallery, maybe next year we can throw something together, I would love to display my collection, its super eclectic

Again just look at his behavior and words. Not a very good spokes person for the hobby. I tend to upset leviathans in people though. You can't shake me.

There is no secret that I will build pieces for people including Casascious pieces. I encourage it and I'm sure Mike would to. The gold stickers were to bland for me to use. I like tradable rebuildable pieces. I'll have a specific tab on the website for rebuilt pieces soon. As long as you build with your name brand holos its good. If you build with some random DIY then those aren't, because no one knows who built them unless you use your own. It just makes sense. A rule of thumb If you ever find a DIY piece in the wild, you simply redeem it at the point when ownership changes and remove the hologram, BAMM! back to an original redeemed piece. so simple.

I have never bid in a Stack and Bowers auction........another false accusation, but for anyone reading this, feel free to go bid on them,  $1 starting bid.  

I don't think Patrick hurt any collectors, but Yes, he did contact me to help him. I help anyone who comes and asks for it. I'll even help you if you want it I won't believe your lies and put downs though. Patrick was arrested, but hasn't been convicted, I'll speak on him when the facts are known. Until then, I'll say innocent until proven guilty. We all know how corrupt the government is right now. Maybe they just wanted to silence him. Who knows. I don't approve of any kind of theft by anyone FYI but I'm also not a false accuser. Any one that is concerned with the SatPulse pieces, don't be, because Patrick never had access to keys.

I've spent the last couple decades promoting real wealth and putting gold, silver and bitcoin in peoples pockets. Yes, I got paid for it and I'm sure they are better off then they were.

Collect and say what you want, but Caribbean Treasures is the best entry pieces in the market today. They are the only pieces I know of that are being traded for goods and services. peer to peer. From $25 fully funded brass and silver pieces all the way up in denominations of 5g gold. When I'm done, they will create the largest bartering system of any territory in the world. What have you done for the hobby except twist words and spread falsehoods? No one is getting screwed. I'm simply giving people what I wish I had when I started, a silver and gold barter system with blockchain access. No matter if my bank or governments ban or block me, i can still transact amongst my peers. Hints freedom tools.

I'm glad I can live in your mind for free though, didn't you post something similar yesterday? Get a life!

I'm sure when my table is prepared in front of you, you'll accuse me of stealing the sterling forks, poisoning the drinks and that I touched you inappropriately too. Actually, you'll probably just buy one of my 10g piece for $350. haha that would be ironic.

okay kidding aside. The "word" talks about your behavior.

1 Peter 3:16
Having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

Exodus 20:16
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Exodus 23:1
“You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness.

I will pray you find peace and that you heal any of the wounds that are unhealed.

I will say this - I am about 99.9% sure that CT had nothing to do with Patrick's theft - the people that were stolen from were a group of people Patrick helped set up wallets and such for. He made those keys.

CT's involvement with Patrick was the key generation and assembly of the Satpulse coins only - that is my understanding.

 Well, look at the loudest people in the room and see how they speak about the hobby? They definitely aren't helping. They probably have a lying leviathan spirit at best. Be careful who you associate and believe out there. Leviathan spirits lie and try to influence those around them to believe the lies. Then they kill spirits of others. The world is running wild with them right now. Its always the ones who speak ill of others yet never create, lift people up in the hobby or give to help benefit others, but boy do we get to here their negative opinions. I'm just glad I get to irritate the little demons with my presents and "Shine MY Light On The Battlefield"! Moving on!

I don't view my pieces as collectables (even though they are or will be, because of what they are) as much as I view them as tools of freedom. I think people are extremely  undervaluing open cold storage pieces too. We haven't had an event yet that would demand them, but I can see it manifesting.

I'm making pieces now that I wish someone would have made for me to acquire a decade ago. The truth is, Caribbean Treasures pieces are some of the most economical, authentic, territorial peer to peer trade units on the market. To some its a collectable, to others its a barter system currency that provides precious metals, blockchain access and or access to bitcoin on the blockchain.  If you can score a silver cold storage piece for under $100, that is a win in my book. I think OG has a 3-coin set that a pretty cheap, but they still have to pay $168.00 entry price for them. $120 for a single.  $25-$85 is better entry for people. The whole point is having exchangeable units in cold storage, not weight of a metal. I like OGs pieces and own them, but his pieces would do better if they were to serve the customer more. Most people aren't going to type up a public key on a coin. We need to make it easier for people to do. Thats why the adoption of using more QR codes is happening. Id focus more on the security and ease of use for people rather than making a pretty picture too. A lot of people are intimidated by bitcoin and will find it annoying if they have to take 2 min worth of time to type in a public key that they will probably type in incorrectly the first time around anyway. I can hear their frustration now.....as they walk away.

I believe cold storage on precious metals will perform very well, others seem to have little faith.  If you can't afford my $65 and $85 silver built pieces, I have some even more economical pieces in copper coming soon.   I think these "territorial" fractional trade units will perform similar to how private territorial pieces have performed over the last 100 years. This is without the bitcoin value attached. Then you have the more cartoony themed pieces on cheaper metals and I believe they will perform more closely to how commemoratives / Hard time tokens performed over the last 100 years. My 2 sats.

Its not hard guys! When at all time highs, Sell physical for dollars. When we crash down, buy bitcoin with the dollars. It just depends on what you are trying to get. Buy the rare cold storage pieces at all time highs. Sell them when it crashes for more bitcoin. If you have questions just ask.

I came into the hobby long ago (2011) when bitcoin wasn't about making any money, it was about using a better system. I was an "END THE FED" Ron Paul campaigner 2008-2012 who talked to people on their door steps about individual liberty, monetary policy and sound money. I still do this from time to time. Just this week I have introduced 12 people to physical bitcoins that knew little about it before. Gifting physical pieces is my "love language" and I do it as often as I can afford to. The spark and interest it builds up in them is great to see. We need more people doing this. Also, the more governments try to dissolve privacy, the more people will move our way.....its a tool remember that, a freedom tool.

If you don't believe you can profit off silver pieces that you can acquire right now for under $100 is pretty funny. People will eventually wish they could get them for under $100, Just like most pieces built before them are now hard to find under $500 redeemed.

I too try to have 1 of everything Mopar! I'm a little behind on the newer items. We need a new updated encyclopedia. I remember buying redeemed brass pieces from $100-150. Thats still a good buy if you ask me. Thats why I like $65 silver built pieces even more

I think the way we are moving and how world events are merging to a currency crisis, we will soon see people fleeing dollars and seeking protection and freedom outside the system. We will see them move into bitcoin, real estate, gold and silver. We will be seeing new all time highs on collectables too. All the dollars that aren't in the USA i believe will be coming back to our shores to buy what they can. Be ready.......because physical silver and gold bitcoin storage pieces will be hotttt!

We are early!

When people seek freedom, they will find silver and gold cold storage pieces. I think we are on the verge of a whole new generation of truth and freedom seekers. People are tried of being lied to, losing privacy, losing freedom and being spiritually dead. Ultimate freedom is finding God! It is an exciting time to be alive.

Also, when you have events like FTX and Coldkeys hurting people, it will damage peoples view of our hobby for awhile. Whether it be bitcoin in general or cold storage pieces. I remember people buying at $65,000 and then it crashed down to $16,000, They stopped buying at these cheap prices because they got hurt.

There is a couple groups on facebook that I know of, (Send PM if you want in) but I don't think we will be able to find a small group of people trading physical bitcoins we have never seen before in the mountains somewhere, even though that would be amazing. I'm sure most all have an online presents. Let me know if you find more groups.

I’ll start with I owe you a phone call! Lol. I’ll call ya manana if you’re gunna be around ?


Most “bitcoiners” don’t like the idea of funded collectibles, see the massive scam thread above for why, as you pointed out.. I posted a 1k Gold Cas on r/Bitcoin like 4-5 years back for someone selling one, just to help spread the word, and got downvoted in to oblivion and even “flagged” as suspicious or some shit lol.which I think only Mods can do and funny thing is the head mod for r/bitcoin is Theymos (tho of course it wasn’t his doing, but just funny as theymos knows this space well). Everyone was saying we are fucking up what “they’ve worked so hard to build” in btc, self custody etc etc. I ended up just deleting it a few hours after posting it, it got so bad lol. BUT, those days seem to have passed. Half of the Reddit posts I see now on there seem to think it’s okay to store coins on exchanges like Coinbase , which is a “trustworthy” exchange. Saw this recently, not a word about it being a big fat scam and not tons of hate, like it once would have gotten - https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/s/10HRRT4rGx

I and LesbianCow are the esteemed mods of r/physicalBitcoin ..we moderate a whopping 20 members maybe once a year (just now remembering we even set this up a few years back lol).

Twitter / X..whatever Elon is calling that zoo these days has a strong collectibles /art “community”. Many projects are announced there that never see the light of day here. It’s a great place to find new stuff and old.

Instagram is a decent place for finding/advertising, as you know. Ive had quite a few collectors find my “physicalcryptocurrency” page (now defunct since facebook won’t help me recover the account) and DM me questions, who ended up becoming forum members..like that Tread93 mofo .  A few coin makers like Alpen coin came from Insta as well.  

I don’t have a twatter account and keep my facebook inactive, but as pointed out, def groups on facebook. I’ve found some old unknown projects there as well. Problem is many peoples fbook accounts would doxx them and aren’t interested in doing so.

YouTube IF you make videos, as “Bitcoin forum” “bitcointalk” “btalk” “btctalk” etc are almost immediately deleted if written in any comment section. Love Google. They allow for scams to pay them to advertise like crazy, let bots run wild on there with fake scam conversations..but heaven forbid you mention this forum. I still have no fckn clue why.

Shout out to the bitcoinTalkShow, who I believe is at least partially ran/organized by this forums admin Cyrus, who’s a frequent face seen around these parts. The shows second to last episode featured our little hobby here, which is awesome (@cyrus hoping to see the show continue!!) https://youtu.be/y7YxgElroyU?si=x0z3sZdIDg6Re2mY

We had a Discord group for all collectors interested in the hobby but I believe it got crowded with scammers and was shut down. Someone needs to re-establish the channel, which was the plan I believe.

Pretty sure there’s an AOL chat room for collectors.. “Anthony/Canada/50 seeking to chat with bitcoin collectors“ 😬

been a dream of mine since 2021 - I just simply aint that rich lol

I think a physical in person art gallery of physical btc coins, if advertised correctly could grow the demand 10X over night for sure. Imo

To answer the bottom part of your post, I know there are a few strong collecting groups on Facebook.
I know Reddit has bitcoin sub-reddit, but not sure about any physical postings/groups.
Instagram I know has been good for some sales of certain physical cryptos... not sure about any groups/reels that focus on physical crypto


Now.. onto your question:

1) They don't... most of the general public might barely even know about crypto due to some mainstram news article that more than likely paints it in a negative light

2) Correct... there have only been a handful of makers over the short timespan that have proven to not be scammers.

3) I agree

4) Not likely...from what many of us know, this forum is pretty much the only place besides ebay or Scarce City that physical cryptos get much marketing
   And possibly include the social media groups, but I am not sure what people show off on those platforms

5) Yes.. we are a niche inside a niche. There are people that have been met over the years that have been involved from the beginning that have had no clue that there are physical cryptos

6) Nothing... Hopefully with some of the larger notable things that have happened with physical crypto recently, there will be more of a spotlight on it.

agreed my "1 of everything" has me spending a lot of sats lol luckily the high prices save me sometimes as things can and do get out of available range.

I agree - the people buying these "limited mintage" grams of precious metals, new producer who's a snake oil saleman.. yeah yeah yeah they will never get their money back. I also have to agree that I would have WAY MORE $$$ AND BTC if I would have just bought btc instead of collectibles... but some of us are just addicts

For a while now, my gut has told me one day some massively, large influencer,/celebrity, or politician or possible public figure will show an interest in these coins by talking about them publicly, and they will become instantly one of the most hottest physical collectibles on the planet. I’ve always wished they’d make a movie like the Italian Job, but instead of them stealing gold bars,  it’s a briefcase full of Lealana coins.

I think it is the prices being put on collectibles - feels like a bubble that is going to pop and soon. Premiums are getting insane.

Because of this and for some, collectibles may not make much sense financially - if you are buying any collectible with Bitcoin - you most likely will never profit - you will not be able to sell it for more BTC than you paid. And if you are buying with Fiat you would profit better to simply buy and hodl Bitcoin.

That and most sellers are charging premiums thru the roof. You have makers who are new "buy hey I only made 21 so 20x premiums make sense"  --- It really doesn't. But those makers will still have buyers who buy out of fomo or who dont really care about the premiums and just like the piece.

In my opinions when premium was in the 10%-25% range or even as high as 50%, there was a lot more traffic. But 1000% premiums and up tends to slow traffic.

I see 10g silver coins being sold for around 100 or more in USD. Or 1 oz being sold for $500 plus but hey, there is only 50 or less so "super rare".

Those prices make sense to me for older and well established makers. Makes zero sense to me for the new ones. That said, I sometimes also still buy at these crazy rates. Many do. I just think it is lower with the higher premiums being demanded.

Heck, I just paid around $500 for a non precious metal coin with $15 in BTC because it was 1 of 5 made. It happens. lol

I think with Stacks Bowers, Heritage Auctions, PCGS, ICG and NGC recognising collectible
crypto coins it open up the space to possible FIAT numismatics for sure.

5 very interesting questions nonetheless ...


Yes, the same way thy dont know or care about FIAT collectibles either.


Possibly a factor but if they dont know about crypto coin collectibles in the first place
it wont be an issue. Its a small concern though, there are plenty if diy's, unloaded, still loaded
10 years on collectibles which could be deemed 'safe'



Thats a possibility because until my opening point we were on our own little niche club



I think they would be found out by now, I might do a search on some numismatic
forums and see if there are crypto sections.


Yea this ties in with Q1.

With all of the coin collectors out there and crypto stackers I am very surprised that this space isn't shown more interest by these groups as well as the general public. Now this could be for a variety of reasons:

1. The general public just doesn't really know about crypto collectibles or hologrammed coins/bars etc. (i'm leaning more towards this).

2. People don't want to get scammed due to tricksters or rug pulls from shady makers copying the private keys in creation (definitely more relevant).

3. We are still very early and this space is still maturing & growing.

4. There could be other places online that people are publicly collecting & showing their coins/ products (less likely).

5. There is a lack of interest because collectibles are already a very niche space to begin with.

6. What am I missing?

Now there are some recent developments that I definitely won't downplay that are incredible so lets look at those bullet points

• Stacks Bowers & Heritage Auctions
• PCGS & ICG Grading crypto coins regularly - NGC with the one off Otto collection

Am I missing anything here above?


I am also curious where there might be other groups of collectors in this space outside of Btalk I will begin to list all I can think of (in no particular order)

1. Instagram
2. Redditt
3. Facebook
4. ebay
5. Youtube
6. Twitter/X
7. Scarce City
8. Discord
9. Telegram
10. AOL (LOL)
11. Other Forums


Any Missing? Thx to MinerJones & ChibiCty for the input - I think I will also add links to all of these.


Can you guys list any specific groups where there are crypto collectible enthusiasts or other lesser known populations of folks into this hobby? ....