Topic: IMAGINE topics where you could jump to posts of Real Objective Value only !!!!!! (Read 296 times)

You could probably make a browser extension that would allow some kind of external point system for this... It would be kind of useless unless a lot of people used it but I have seen similar things done before. I think that could perhaps achieve your goals while still allowing everyone to be heard equally.

I 100% agree with you there. However I consider the current system to be already doing this to a large degree. This system would I hope prevent this and reverse this completely. I am only trying to propose an entirely fair and objective meritocracy as far as we can create it.

Would not the thrashing out of the criteria for a valuable post inhibit unpopular and popular being relevant . I mean surely if we drill down enough on the criteria - then there s no longer room for subjectivity and something either does add new relevant factual information  or highly probable correct information in light of presented corroborating supporting observable events or not. I mean if you drill down enough with criteria a post will either be a net positive logical contribution toward finding the optimal solution  or truth or not. 

We need to drill down and down until only objective analysis of posts all measured to the same criteria is used to generate a score. Actually as score will then be subjective so perhaps we need to make it either merit worthy or not merit worthy that will perhaps be easier. So no score just yes positive or not positive according to the exhaustive criteria we can come up with as a community. Merit worthy or not merit worthy. Valuable according to the criteria or not valuable.

In highly complex discussions with many layers and each layer having multiple factors of influence so that there is no correct answer perhaps that we can discern easily (perhaps things like broad topics on economics/politics etc) then still there can be logic and reason separated from groundless opinion and "ideas" that are popular or unpopular. The detail is the important thing.

I certainly would never want a system that prevents "unpopular" ideas being silenced because quite often those are the most sensible, reasonable and logical ideas promoting fairness and a real meritocracy.

Now of course you will create situations were some merit sources believe the criteria is met and other will not feel the criteria is met. So eventually you will need to only have merit sources that can clearly and logically present a case for merit or non merit. Gradually over time the merit sources themselves will be drilled down until you have a group of persons that are well suited to analysing posts and picking them apart for real objective value or filler that sounds like it has value. To merit posts you of course need persons that are capable of demonstrating clearly why they meet the criteria for a valuable post if challenged.

You could have a variation on this with merit sources being able to actually remove merit ( 1 vote per post) they feel does not meet the objective criteria.

I'm sure most merit sources will stick to the criteria or else just replace with people that will stick to the criteria.

There can be small margins of error where some of the criteria is met but for posts where none of the criteria are met then they get a couple of chances making such an error and then they are replaced with somebody else who is able to match posts to the criteria consistently.

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This could be the case so this is why you would jump to the post with the next valuable post button and you can look for the context. However since it should be largely on topic and relevant to the OP and also they usually quote what they are responding too then it should still work well.

There will be times when reading the entire thread is more useful though. However that should mean there are lots of valid points being made frequently.  I mean imagine there are zero valuable posts at all after the op until page 4 then skipping to it immediately should not result in you not having a clue what the post is about because the posts are supposed to really be relevant to the OP and not go meandering off topic. However, yes if you did not understand why this post has value in the context of the OP then you will need to trace back. I do not think this would happen too often if the criteria is held too strictly.

This is what I do, especially in threads with lots of replies, like 20+ replies.

The problem with sorting by merited is that Bitcointalk doesn't work like Reddit for example, where you can sort by upvotes and understand the discussion. In Reddit there many parallel discussions on the same topic, and those are sorted by upvotes

In Bitcointalk the discussion usually goes in a linear chronological order of the posts, so you cannot just swift a merited post to the top, it will break the chronological order and may not make sense.

While your intent seems constructive, the application of this would be a logistical and ideological nightmare. One thing I have learned over the decades of being on the internet is some times the most important things people need to hear are often the most unpopular. Creating a system to allow people to hide unpopular information would be a massive problem. I will let you fill in the blanks with hypotheticals. I am sure the trust system debacle serves as a good example of how that might go...

This suggestion is inapplicable in huge threads: "Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion".

That's a great suggestion actually 😂.

It does mean you have to click the [All] button though to find anything and not everything is merited but it's a start...

Yes exactly this same thing was just suggested with the +1 idea above. Same thing. The onus then is on the merit source who will measure against strict criteria and reward objectively.

Perhaps it makes sense to implement "Like" button along with Merit system, so any member can vote.
In the top right corner of the forum comments had obtained the highest number of Merit and "Likes" for the day may be displayed.
In that case posts with a large number of "Likes" would help Merit Sources to find good posts quicker.

in current form not even comparable to what the OP is suggesting in anyway.


1. would that not only cover the page you are on? what if in a mega thread next valuable post is on page 8
2. currently merited posts meet no criteria so have no consistent value at all so it can not work in its current form.

If you really want to find objectively valuable posts then criteria must be set and measure against. Anyone opposing that should be able explain why they would want to oppose objective evaluation of all posts fairly. To oppose this you are opposing a true meritocracy.

You see once you have a strong foundation many things can be built upon it. Trying to build upon a broken unstable and inconsistent foundation just makes for more problems.

Ctrl+F "Merited by"

This is true it can not be automated.

It could work like this

1. criteria agreed and exhausted for valuable post
2. merit sources study this and give merit as per criteria suggests only and objectively
3. meriting when criteria is not met frequently = removal of merit source and passed to new person
4. you could combine this with your +1 idea so all members can highlight a good source then server totals most +1 alerts merit source to review manually.
5. People pressing +1 false 3x (merit source decides post not meeting criteria) then have their +1 button deactivated for 6 months.

I mean that is just an off the top of my head idea ... some peoplen could perhaps design something even better.

It would be a great feature if implemented, but let's suppose we agree on those criterias, who is going to select the good posts and how? I think it is impossible to make the post selection automted.

I don't know about you, personally when I start reading a megathread I focus on merited posts.
Edit: I was thinking of a voting system where members can give +1 to a good post, then posts get sorted based on the number of votes. /it's kinda like how merit system works exept for the sorting thing.

So today actmyname starts a thread that got me thinking a bit more about this issue. I didn't reply on his thread since it may be classed as diverting or off topic...but

We have all known that a lot of threads on certain boards are high% valueless filler that consists of off topic, irrelevant , text spun parroting of prior posts  or groundless improbable opinions , net negative clouding of the issue etc. So even if the OP was interesting you have to sift through 20 pages to find perhaps 1 gem of new information that has some value that is related. Often you may give up after a few pages because nothing of further value is located.

So what if you hammered out strict criteria for a post of value - something like this
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-defines-a-hq-post-what-defines-a-lq-post-have-your-say-inside-come-and-h-5091552

Then the posts that were measured against this criteria and marked as valuable were hyper linked in a small reserved space under the OP so you can jump to next valuable reply..it could just be a button saying next valuable reply on each post of value so you just jump from one to the other but still can look back over prior posts before it if you need a bit of context (if on topic to the OP should be okay anyway)? . I mean if you have ages to browse the forum then yes it is okay it can be fun to read the entire evolution of a thread through natural disagreements, the gradual build up of frustration of both sides of a debate and sometime resulting drama etc (all part of forum fun) but if you don't have a lot of time or can't be doing with to much debate that day and just want to jump to the valuable new information then it may be a useful feature that could be implemented.

Of course this
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-defines-a-hq-post-what-defines-a-lq-post-have-your-say-inside-come-and-h-5091552
can be improved upon further this was just the start.


However once you have a check list to measure posts against then it will get easier over time for people to mentally auto checklist posts against this kind of criteria mentally and be able to eliminate filler/misleading posts quickly and reward posts of real value correctly.

This could fit in nicely with the sig banner impressions thing that was being discussed also.

I mean this is extreme but you could put in your settings inside your account a tick box for show valuable replies only. I mean that would be risky and cut out valuable stuff that slipped through the net I guess.