Topic: IMF is jealous of El Salvador, LOL (Read 441 times)

Murder rate down 95% because of their crackdown on drugs and insanely large gangs, not because of bitcoin. How would you even think those are related?

One would imagine tourism getting up with a lower change of getting killed for travelling there.

And using bitcoin was probably good idea because they don't have own fiat anyway, but giving bitcoin credit for their government's other political decisions is just weird.

I guess not actually by their adaption towards bitcoin but rather the law implemented by their President. So far he create good changes to their country since from murder capital of the world. He manage to change the impression of people on their country and now they are called as Bitcoin Paradise.

See this this is really interesting article https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/el-salvador-from-murder-capital-world-bitcoin-paradise-curtis-ingram

Their bitcoin adaption attract lots of tourist in their country and if they can create more jobs from that sector then provably the crime rate in their country would go lower especially if lots of people would able to get a job from tourism part.

Is this guy suggesting that the adoption of Bitcoin as legal tender reduced the murder rates in El Salvador by 95%?
I don't see any correlation between the usage of Bitcoin and the murder rate. If someone sees such correlation, maybe he should explain this to us.
Is the GDP growth of El Salvador caused by the adoption of Bitcoin? I don't think so. Many people were complaining and showing data that mass BTC adoption in El Salvador failed. I don't know whom to trust.
El Salvador having 95% more tourists after adopting BTC also seems like a weird statement. More people from around the world visiting El Salvador simply because it has BTC as legal tender? I find it hard to believe.

It could be a legit concern or its just some bullshit the IMF is trying to pull. If they are really concerned for El Salvador, what they would do is try to help them make better policy (if they don't have one) regarding bitcoin and other crypto currencies. But it looks like they just don't like the fact that El Salvador made bitcoin a legal tender which in turn is helping them grow better, develop faster and making them more stable economically. In other words, they cant believe that a country like El Salvador can do better without them. They wont let this happen and will not let other countries follow the same steps.

I am hoping so that this is one of the reasons of El Salvador's progress and IMF just don't like to see a country thrives through unconventional method that no one has ever applied to their regime.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why IMF says such thing against them. They're able to clear some of their debts and they're seeing the positive progress from them.

I'm not sure but I don't want to go that far and thought of conspiracies but I am happy that we've seen this piece of history and El Salvador is the first one that made BTC as their legal tender.

That’s exactly where they should keep quiet.. why would they give advice like that? Haven’t they seen what’s happening?

I read the article and don't understand why you tell them to shut up. Advices that the IMF gave to El Salvador are good. They are suggesting El Salvador to strengthen the regulatory framework and oversight of the Bitcoin ecosystem. They suggest them to improve the transparency and risk management related to Bitcoin.
I also see that there was some advice that suggested El Salvador to reduce the government's exposure to Bitcoin, which caused dissatisfaction with people here these suggestions are correct for the government. The government and the economy inside the country has to be stable. You can't achieve stability with Bitcoin because it's very volatile. Yeah, the reward can be high but it's risky, that's why the IMF suggest them this, to reduce risks and create a more stable environment.

IMF wants El Salvador to create more secure economic framework and keep the sustainable approach to cryptocurrencies.

This is just the behavior when someone expected you to fail in something like a business, for example, and then instead of failing, you end up performing very well more than expected, and then, to save their face, they decide to act like they want to help by giving some kind of advice when they see that you obviously don't need it.

Such shameful behavior. Shame on the IMF!

The fact that El Salvador's economy is getting better with their Bitcoin policy, it proves how El Salvador can become a developing country with the adoption of Bitcoin that they do. But on the other hand, the IMF may see this as a threat to them, because with the increasing development of their economy, it means that their ability to pay their debts is also increasing, and the IMF is not happy with this progress, so they try as much as possible to control El Salvador with the financial recommendations that they have, and it could be that it will be tightened if El Salvador does not listen to their recommendations. The IMF is nothing more than a loan shark, and a loan shark will continue to want the borrower to remain in debt.

Do you have any proof that they are innocent? Besides what do you mean that in US, EU, UK innocent people are not put in jail?


https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=SV

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/slv/el-salvador/crime-rate-statistics

https://www.statista.com/topics/12204/crime-in-el-salvador/#topicOverview

There is not a single source that questions that crimes have gone down, what is questioned is the method used by Bukele and in some source the figures to some extent but if even the World Bank puts a graph like that is because what you said is simply false.


For your information the presumption of innocence exists in the law of El Salvador, but it is suspended by state of exception, something that is provided for in most constitutions and legal systems of democratic countries, the suspension of certain rights in states of exception of war or others.

So you mean to say that the US, which you use as an example, respected the presumption of innocence in Guantanamo or something?

Here the question is that the more the system is more protective of criminals, the more it screws honest people and if I have to choose between having my 12 year old daughter raped by gangs and prostituted, between being afraid to go out in the street because they might kill me, or that some of those in jail are innocent (which also happens in those countries you mention), I prefer the latter.

If you think that security and democracy are achieved by total repression, which includes the imprisonment and torture of thousands of completely innocent people who ended up in prisons only because they had tattoos or someone reported them out of pure malice, then I guess the only thing that matters is the result.

The stories about how El Salvador is one of the safest countries in the world are as credible as the stories that say that China belongs to that group of countries - but countries where they put you in jail and keep you for months without any evidence cannot be considered safe, at least for me.

In Western democracy there is something called presumption of innocence and we are all protected that way - I wonder if anyone would approve of people being caught like animals on the streets and in their homes in the US, EU, UK or maybe Japan?

I hope that after Nayib Bukele is gone from the position that he already occupies, the progress won't stop, and everything will become even better with time.
IMF can send recommendations and say anything they want, but if the situation of El Salvador is resolved with BTC eventually, it will be a grand finale to that whole deal.

The IMF actually wants your country to be in a crisis so that your country's government will NEED them. But the CHAD Nayib Bukele has learned to be too smart for that.

Plus shower thought, WHY does the IMF want El Salvador to "scale back" from their Bitcoin push towards adoption? Does that have something in connection with Bitcoin as a breaker of political strongholds?

🤔

Indeed, everything needs a process but I am still optimistic that this will be one of the real proofs later from El Salvador and if the progress is 90%, I think it is considered a success, especially since they managed to close their debt with the IMF using this instrument. It is certain that a massive reversal of the argument will occur as predicted by many parties that it is impossible to happen.

The curiosity of people about how Bitcoin becoming a legal tender is doing in El Salvador and with that stats, it seems that Bukele did the right thing.

They're still testing the waters and maybe count more 5 years to come and we'll see most of its people are already using it 100%. This is the utility that satoshi aimed why he made Bitcoin.

And AFAIK with IMF, aren't they supportive with Bitcoin years ago? why they're having this kind of drama against El Salvador? Sketchy.

I read the attached link very well, don't say IMF is blind, if they are blind, why the negotiation? It means that El Salvador needs them which causes the interference, and mind you, this is an advice, no one is forcing El Salvador and they can go elsewhere for their request if they like. IMF is a socioeconomic organization that lends countries money, do you want them to keep quiet when their risk assessment to give the money shows some concern as economists? I don't blame them at all.

Again, El Salvador is not doing well as you said, stop relying on the random statistics on social media, you can verify them on many reliable news outlets.

I don't know where this is coming from, El Salvador is a sovereign state, who can regulate such?

The only issue I have with IMF is that they do not view Bitcoin as a property owned, this is not cool. However, they might sense the risk of the inability to trace/access the true El Salvador economy due to Bitcoin's nature and not what the government owns (which is certainly accountable), but what about the citizens own or transact? This is equally genuine.

So you've bought into the idea of making the murder capital of the world:

One murder every hour: how El Salvador became the homicide capital of the world

Into one of the safest countries on Earth:

How El Salvador Became One of the Safest Nations in The West.

It is very bad because you have to worry more about the rights of the alleged criminals than the rights of the murdered people.

There is no what IMF could ever say that will move Bukele or the entire El-Salvadorans because this is not their first attempt, but the interesting aspect of it all is that they have got to realized that IMF will always want to hypnotized people under them and make sure that they are in debt, in other for them to be able to control their affairs and regulate their economy as they want, while all these are nothing than a modern day slavery in which those that are not vigilant subscribe into, all what El-Salvador could do regarding this is to play a dumb hear.

For some people, ES is obviously some kind of promised land where you can pay for everything with BTC and honey and milk flow everywhere. Unfortunately, it is actually a big mirage that Bukele finances with taxpayers' money, and the reality is that BTC is used by less than 20% of the people in that country, that the main job of the state is to put people in prison, regardless of whether they are guilty or not - and that regardless of the economic situation, Bukele has to take out new loans to pay off the old ones.

The IMF has no reason to be jealous, they just need to be patient and their "services" will be in demand again - because Bitcoin does not exist to save economies that have been destroyed for decades.

For those who do not want to live in illusions -> El Salvador Events of 2023

El Salvador stands as a beacon of hope for countries wanting to delve into cryptocurrency, mostly Bitcoin because it has long gotten used to it since it uses it as a national currency of exchange.
Such kind of a country inspires capitalist and investors alike in other parts of the world who want to make profit from cryptocurrency and that is why a country like UAE is having more crypto capitalist invest in mining farms because they believe that crypto is the next most valuable asset besides gold and it would thrive soonest.

Sometimes the IMF's attitude in judging something is too excessive in my opinion, including the Bitcoin issue in El Salvador.
I have opened the profile of matthew_sigel's x account and saw many tweets made about Bitcoin and crypto that are more positive.

The second and third points are true if we examine the sources spread regarding the El Salvador economy.

Indeed, the IMF continues to send statements to the president of El Salvador regarding the negative impact of using Bitcoin as a means of payment. Meanwhile, many countries in the world continue to make Bitcoin one of the innovations in the modern economic world. Bahrain, for example, reportedly that the Bahrain bank launched a Bitcoin investment product as stated by Bitcoin Archive on their x account.

One of the IMF's main goals is to "prevent financial crises," which is why they advise El Salvador to proceed cautiously with Bitcoin due to its high volatility. They are concerned that such an asset could affect the country’s financial stability if the market dumps or, in a worst-case scenario, collapses. However, pro-Bitcoin advocates argue that it's more likely for fiat to collapse than Bitcoin since fiat is controlled by a few, while Bitcoin operates as a global currency.

It’s understandable why the IMF is concerned as El Salvador has a debt of $30 billion as of March 2024, which is 82.8% of their GDP. That percentage indicates the country is facing financial struggles. Still, the president's reasoning for investing in Bitcoin is to attract investors to the country, although there haven't been significant developments in that area yet.

More info about Debt-to-GDP ratio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio

Interesting to see what will happen after he is gone, will there be a push back for BTC policies and wouldn't they go to smitherines - I hope not, because El Salvador is a real example for everybody to see, follow, and study.

The Central African Republic followed El Salvador's path but quickly failed afterwards. Not every country that follows El Salvador's path is successful, just like us, not every investor makes a profit just by investing in bitcoin. It all depends on each investor's strategy and vision.

Also, relying solely on bitcoin investments to pay off the national debt is neither a wise idea.

I believe that El Salvador's development is due to the wise leadership of Nayib Bukele, not their total dependence on bitcoin. Crime rates have dropped significantly and made the country more stable, thus paving the way for the development of other industries, especially tourism and labor export, which are two of their strengths.

If Bitcoin gets to say $300K then El Salvador will have no problem repaying it's debt completely and still hold a sizable amount of bitcoins.

The only question is, if there is any OTC broker who would arrange for the cash to be delivered.

I think it's pretty obvious though, I mean this has been the stance of IMF ever since El Salvador adopted Bitcoin and so I wouldn't be surprised up to now that this still hold grudge against the country that make Bitcoin a legal tender because it goes against the basic tenant of monetary.

And who knows, maybe when we reaches a new all time high and El Salvador has hold a lot of Bitcoin, maybe they can pay off some of their debts thru that profits and it doesn't sit will well with IMF because they wanted countries to be depended on them.

If El Salvador sets a precedence, and they are successful, then maybe there are some countries that are going to follow so that they can also pay their loans and debts to this world organizations.

Regarding El Salvador's policy, the IMF has repeatedly warned El Salvador with the reason that they warned El Salvador but El Salvador as we know it has no negative impact after they made Bitcoin a legal tender even though it was not in a state that forced its citizens to use Bitcoin.
We think it is a very wise policy and until now even though I am not a native of El Salvador, they do not seem to be experiencing any problems related to the economic system.

In fact, for me personally, El Salvador's policy has begun to spread even though they have not dared to issue an official decision regarding the use of Bitcoin as a legal tender.

What people can expect to them? They don't have any control of crypto and they want countries to continue to deal with them since this is how they earned money. They try to eliminate bitcoin by putting those sanction, then we can see how great the El Salvador President since they didn't budge despite of somehow we can call it harassing and they continue to believe that bitcoin would bring something great for their country.

Since many years pass already and we see El Salvador is doing fine then we can assume that they are successful and not reliant to USD since they are earning good with bitcoin. Hopefully we can also see that bitcoin soar up high and El Salvador will earn a lot of money since for sure this will shutdown those entities that discourage them to use bitcoin and make it as their alternative currency.

It is certain and will happen, but the President of El Salvador is smart and has also reviewed this before making his decision. It could be the ultimate dream of the leader of El Salvador if perhaps they will pay off all their debts with the IMF or others with the help of BTC investment instruments.

I think the IMF is only talking about the economic inequality that is currently widening and trying to provide recommendations in addressing potential fiscal and financial stability issues that come from the Bitcoin initiative as I read in the news from the OP's post link.

However, one thing that is most needed now is how all countries will be able to pay off their debts from various sources including the IMF whose interest continues to accumulate over time, including El Salvador.

IMF are afraid if El Salvadorian abandon USD and choose Bitcoin to be used as legal tender or they afraid if people choose to invest in Bitcoin rather than earn small APY in banks.

For the record, Nayib Bukele haven't sold any of the coins he bought, he's a long term holder and have no plan to sell the coins, so I don't think it will change his mind after IMF ask him in order to mitigate the risk of Bitcoin.

IMF make money from giving loan, if there's a country can be successful just only invest in one asset, it will threaten their loan service.

As of June this year, El Salvador owes the IMF 143.6 million. Every creditor will seek a means to collect its money from the debtor.  The country owns about 5,892.76 BTC and has a policy of buying one Bitcoin daily. IMF might not be comfortable with such exposure, maybe because of the volatility of Bitcoin. They want the country to cut their investment in Bitcoin and diversify funds to other areas.

But the president of El Salvador is a strong believer in Bitcoin. He sees the future profitability of the coin and wants to keep holding and adding more to the state's treasury. He has already started making bold economic reforms that will reduce the risk of investing in Bitcoin. One of them is the proposed 2025 budget deficit financial plans. The budget will be funded by internally generated revenues without loans from any organization. Nayib Bukele can achieve it because he has reduced budget deficits since he assumed office. In 2019, when he became president, the budget deficit was $1.2 billion, but last year, it stood at $338 million.

IMF is just surprised that El Salvador's economy has not nosedived as they predicted, so they are seeking other means to influence the country's Bitcoin policies. After all, how many developing countries have experienced dramatic economic growth with IMF loans?

I agree with you here. Two sides have something to say in their defense, of course, El Salvador may be seen as a victim of sorts, but if it plays its cards right, their position will be even better in the long run. We shall see what their reply will be.

I do agree that the significant adoption of Bitcoin in El Salvador has yielded favorable results like the 10% increase in GDP and the arrival of tourists. And I am not  just blindly taking IMF side on this but they have some point about excessive Bitcoin adoption for public fund might pose a risk to the country's economic stability due to aspects such as handling public finances or making sure that regulatory oversight is effective. As far as I know IMF do not force El Salvador to completely abandon Bitcoin. What they would suggest instead is actually to fine tune the Bitcoin approach for better financial stability.

But it is also said that El Salvador has had its share of resilience and growth, it is thus a matter of balance between further progress with addressing the concerns of the IMF to avoid potential problems in the future. This is not simply a black and white issue, there has to be some meeting point somewhere that will benefit both crypto adoption and stability.

Because they are not actually international monetary fund but international fiat fund. What they recognize is fiat and not money. They do not care about how fiat are one of the worst money someone can have in long term. IMF is one of the organizations in the world that do talk about what does not concern their organization. They predicted deflation and better economic for my country this year, but the inflation this year in my country skyrocket till now.

I know how pretentious and self serving the IMF can be, but they're not entirely wrong for sending warnings and maming sure they avoid financial risk.
Adopting bitcoin is a very great initiative,  but can we say all these improvements in the country was solely because they adopted bitcoin as legal tender or because they put better policies in place and managed the country better under this present government?
My point is, crediting bitcoin alone for this success might lead them to neglect other aspects of the country and that would be disastrous.

That being said, it was obvious that El Salvador will face many obstacles from these kind of institutions and big countries because they adopted bitcoin as legal tender. Accepting what others are fighting against means your standing against them. The IMF wants El Salvador to tighten bitcoin laws and be more controlling, lol. I mean, that's exactly what most countries want, to restrict bitcoin in a way that they have control of everything. This alone goes against what bitcoin stands against.

El Salvador as a small nation, can create new monetary laws or policies globally. They can be a first nation with Bitcoin legal tender but it's more difficult to be a game-changer and force IMF to recognize their national treasury growth by investment in Bitcoin.

We see it, IMF see it but it won't be easy for El Salvador to have a good jump in their national rank with pressure of many big countries on IMF.
A portfolio tracker on El Salvador investment in Bitcoin since September 2021.
https://nayibtracker.com/

They do not care about these statistics. All IMF is concerned about is limiting bitcoin exposure to the public. They are trying to prevent bitcoin from being officially recognized as a currency. Obviously, threatened by it. They have to protect fiat now seeing how bitcoin is a serious matter and is here to stay. This can definitely be a discouragement for other countries to adopt bitcoin in their economies as they might be targeted by United Nations organizations. What a disappointment for El Salvador. I wonder how they will navigate through this.

What is this IMF are doing, are they blind of that information....?



Now that El Salvador is doing well with their country and they are trying to interfere?

There message is loud and clear, they want to set rules and regulations to improve minimize the risk, but those information are already enough to tell them shut up!

---

https://cryptonews.com/news/imf-urges-el-salvador-to-scale-back-bitcoin-law-in-ongoing-negotiations/