Topic: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy (Read 4627 times)

The last 2 are facts but prove nothing factual other than what Gox said. Using them is if they are facts is speculation on your part.

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION

Quote from: V4Vendettas on February 28, 2014, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: btc237ftw on February 28, 2014, 02:26:43 PM
Guys,

This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before...
"Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference...

http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/

It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time:
http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html

So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one.

Some evidence:
1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin).
2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com.
3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles.
4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com
5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene.
6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified.
7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down.

In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger.

Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed.

Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on.
We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion.



Nice post and I am inclined to agree.

Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief.

if that plan works - what does it mean for all of us who hang in with our money?
appreciate any support to understand it

They are NOT bankrupt.

They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen

This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable.

TO SUMMARISE:

1) Malleability Bug
2) Attempt to Fix Bug
3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows
4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE
5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track
6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it"

THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION

Mt. Gox’s CEO Mark Karpeles said at a press conference in Tokyo this morning. “Mt. Gox went bankrupt but I hope the Bitcoin industry will last.”

Mt. Gox’s wallet software issues may have been so severe that transaction malleability allowed 744,408 BTC to be stolen over the course of several years

It's the DailyMail, not known for verifying anything.  They've based that on estimates made by un-named people - estimates which seem to presume that all fees go to Mark personally (revenue is NOT profit).  To date, few reports even mention Jed's MtGox holdings or speculate on the portion of fees he's collected - that fact alone means that many of these reports, and the speculation within them are based on surface, information and no real investigation.

One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins.
That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more.

One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins.
That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more.

im  wondering why MTgox files for bankruptcy protection and not just bankruptcy??

In my view they would have to be insane to bring Gox back in any form. I doubt the community would trust them again even without Mark's involvement....although I am sure he will try to be part of it somehow.

You did indeed, but as I was quoting directly from it I thought it best to also include a link to the original.
Do try to keep up

I'd just posted that link in this thread directly above you 21 minutes earlier.
Try to keep up.

This would suggest to me that he indeed does know the whereabouts of all the BTC.
Also he has a personal wealth of $250 million...enough to pay back each investor 60% or so.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html#ixzz2udjpOszv

Karpeles vaguely said of the money: 'Well, technically speaking it’s not lost just yet, just temporarily unavailable'

The fees that Mt Gox charged - up to 10pc on transactions - allowed him to amass a fortune of $8m plus 345,000 Bitcoins (worth around $250m even at current rates) by some estimates.

Nice post and I am inclined to agree.

Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief.

1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin).

Source? Proof?

1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin).

Guys,

This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before...
"Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference...

http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/

It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time:
http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html

So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one.

Some evidence:
1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin).
2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com.
3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles.
4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com
5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene.
6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified.
7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down.

In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger.

Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed.

Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on.
We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion.

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-files-bankruptcy-claims-63-6m-debt/ so which news are correct?

There's a thread on reddit in which someone claims that the translation of the news conference reveals that they've filed for civil rehabilitation.  Unfortunately, that same translation says they lost 85 million BTC (4 times all the BTC which will ever exist) so I don't regard it as reliable.

This pastebin of an IRC chat with Mark earlier today also suggests that he still believes there may be a "way out".

pastebin.com/YGr2WTvD

The ~ $63 million seems to be liquid liabilities (and so presumably doesn't include BTC).

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101455170

Agree, just trying to point out that there is a lot of misinformation flying around about what has happened. Just trying to give a little balance.

You have proof they have some coin. That's it.

You don't have proof of their asset v liabilities balance sheet and what and how their current financial situation is.

A wise man would wait and see what happens and what information comes out, not jump to conclusions that he knows everything already.

I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement.  The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings.

I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement.  The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings.

There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble

Elpida did it

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo

Japanese Airlines did it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm

From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU

The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system.

Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan).

http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures

The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general.  It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured.

Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation.

I have searched official Mtgox addresses so I do have proof

I have watched for years the collusion between this forum and Gox

its a scammers paradise, have you ever heard of TF these guys

the forum mods backed him up like a pharaoh

even an Australian newpaper reported a story on TF without even reading

his posts first

The fact is no one, including you, knows the situation. The only fact is that Gox have claimed they believe they can restructure and become solvent again.

This may or may not be true, any statements of fact whether it is true or not here are not fact but supposition.

ok now the BS machine is in over drive

people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me 

So many legal wrongs here it is not funny,

Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES

what is the balance of his Bank accounts