Importing Sparrow Wallet into a Cold Wallet

SFR10

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 17, 2024, 02:40:14 AM

A multisig setup would require making backups of more keys but OP would only need 2/3, 3/4, or whatever other model he sets up to recover his wallet.

You're right... Multisig is better in most cases, but it's also the most complicated route ^{[I've noticed even some users who aren't completely new to this field find it confusing]}.

Quote from: hawer357 on July 16, 2024, 12:56:17 PM

Ohh, I didn't know that feature. Thank you very much. I'll check that. That opens new possibilities.

You're very welcome... If you're interested in what Pmalek mentioned earlier, you can start from "here" and "here", but make sure to "watch this video first" to see if it makes sense to you.

dkbit98

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 15, 2024, 05:14:11 AM

On one hand you want to have it close to you, than on the other hand it should be stored safe against disasters. Than, if you have multiple copies on several places the risk of having it compromised is higher.

You can also use Trezor devices with new SLIP39 system that can split seed words in multiple parts and still solve the issue with single point of failure.
Another simple solution to increase safety of your seed words is to add decoy wallets and passphrases, that would make it harder for someone to steal your coins even with seed words exposed.
Alternative option is to use encryption for your seed words, that is easy to do with Satochip SeedKeeper cards.

Pmalek

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Quote from: SFR10 on July 16, 2024, 12:36:46 PM

You have a point but alternatively, you can use the "seed XOR" feature of your Coldcard device to split your existing seed phrase into multiple parts ^{[unfortunately, the only way to reconstruct your original seed phrase is by having access to all of its parts]}!

It's one solution, but not the best one. You mentioned the reason why yourself. The only way to reconstruct the seed is by putting it together using all of the shards. Losing one equals to losing everything. A multisig setup would require making backups of more keys but OP would only need 2/3, 3/4, or whatever other model he sets up to recover his wallet.

hawer357

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Quote from: SFR10 on July 16, 2024, 12:36:46 PM

Quote from: hawer357 on July 15, 2024, 05:14:11 AM

Than, if you have multiple copies on several places the risk of having it compromised is higher.

You have a point but alternatively, you can use the "seed XOR" feature of your Coldcard device to split your existing seed phrase into multiple parts ^{[unfortunately, the only way to reconstruct your original seed phrase is by having access to all of its parts]}!

Ohh, I didn't know that feature. Thank you very much. I'll check that. That opens new possibilities.

SFR10

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 15, 2024, 05:14:11 AM

Than, if you have multiple copies on several places the risk of having it compromised is higher.

You have a point but alternatively, you can use the "seed XOR" feature of your Coldcard device to split your existing seed phrase into multiple parts ^{[unfortunately, the only way to reconstruct your original seed phrase is by having access to all of its parts]}!

Pmalek

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 15, 2024, 05:14:11 AM

Obviously I need to invest more thoughts into it. On one hand you want to have it close to you, than on the other hand it should be stored safe against disasters. Than, if you have multiple copies on several places the risk of having it compromised is higher.

You don't need to have the seed close to you at all times. You don't need to enter it every time you receive bitcoin or to generate a new address. You can even export the master public key which would allow you to generate addresses from your wallet on a second device. The master public keys wouldn't allow you to send transactions because you need the private (signing) keys for that. Thus, they don't reduce the security of your wallet but they do reduce your privacy.

hawer357

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Obviously I need to invest more thoughts into it. On one hand you want to have it close to you, than on the other hand it should be stored safe against disasters. Than, if you have multiple copies on several places the risk of having it compromised is higher.

Evaluating and making a good decision is obviously crucial. Thank you very much to all of you, I see that I'm not the only one with this problem.

Pmalek

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 14, 2024, 04:03:27 AM

Now, the biggest question is where to safely store/hide the seed.

Use your imagination for this. Look around your house or place of living and ask yourself, where could I put this where no one would look? Make sure it doesn't get wet or is close to a source of fire or heat that could destroy it. Having multiple copies in different geo locations is a good idea. Perhaps you have parents living somewhere else. Or a brother or sister. If you trust them enough, you could store a copy somewhere at their place. That way, even if your home were to go up in flames or be flooded, you could recover your coins from your other backups.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 14, 2024, 04:03:27 AM

I've created a new seed on my cold wallet and transferred the coins to the new one. Now, the biggest question is where to safely store/hide the seed.

If you are doubting the locations your seed phrase are kept not to be secure enough, or you are not having rest of mind about it, why not generate a new seed phrase and extend it with passphrase. You can make the passphrase to be a strong by adding different characters and make it long up to 10 or more characters.

But it is worth knowing that if you lose the passphrase, you will lose the your coins, just as also if you lose the seed phrase. Make sure you backup your passphrase in different locations and not together with your seed phrase. The seed phrase and the passphrase backup should be in different locations and separately.

SFR10

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Quote from: hawer357 on July 14, 2024, 04:03:27 AM

I've created a new seed on my cold wallet and transferred the coins to the new one. Now, the biggest question is where to safely store/hide the seed.

None of us can accurately answer that for you, but ideally, you should pick a place that's not easily accessible to other people ^{[e.g. a robber]} or a location that generally doesn't attract any attention.
^{Note: Make sure it's offline and you have multiple backups (I've lost a few in the past due to my bad memory) and the manner in which you make those backups is important too (e.g. metal backups).}

hawer357

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Thank you very much for all of the comments. I think I've understood the relevancy of how to handle the seed for a wallet. Keeping it isolated and not using it on multiple instances.

I've created a new seed on my cold wallet and transferred the coins to the new one. Now, the biggest question is where to safely store/hide the seed.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 30, 2024, 07:21:34 AM

What Bitcoins101 said isn't incorrect. You are basically saying the same thing but in different ways. A seed generated on a hot wallet always remains hot regardless of what you do with it afterwards. Its origins will never change. Bitcoins101 is also correct when he says that importing such a seed into a hardware wallet can potentially decrease your security. Each time you replicate your seed across multiple software, you increase the attack vector. You now have two pieces of software that hold your seed instead of just one. Open-source or not, you now have to trust two companies or groups of developers that they did a good job with securing their products so your seed doesn't leak and end up in someone else's hand. Import the same seed into a third software and this number increases to three, and so forth.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Bitcoins101 on June 30, 2024, 07:09:26 AM

Importing a single signature software wallet seed into a hardware wallet generates essentially no more security than the original software wallet. Probably less actually, since you now have to trust two environments.

It is not safe not because you now have to trust two environments. It is not safe because you import the seed phrase of an online wallet into a cold wallet. It has to be generated on the cold wallet to make sure that the seed phrase is completely offline and not online in any way. But if the cold wallet is truly cold wallet and not connected online but in a way that it is offline and the seed phrase and the keys it generated does not leave the cold wallets.

Bitcoins101

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Importing a single signature software wallet seed into a hardware wallet generates essentially no more security than the original software wallet. Probably less actually, since you now have to trust two environments.

hawer357

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Quote from: satscraper on April 27, 2024, 11:52:09 AM

Quote from: hawer357 on April 27, 2024, 08:44:28 AM

Quote from: satscraper on April 27, 2024, 05:14:17 AM

In fact I have two old notebooks, one of them, run by Ubuntu, was bought in 2010, while the other one (run by Windows 10) - in 2017. Windows 10 machine alternates with Ubuntu one as the node.

I have two copies of blockchain, each of them is on its own SSD. One copy (on 1 TB SSD) is connected to running node while the other one (on 2 TB SSD) is served as backup for the case of unexpected emergency. Having such setup I don't afraid to lose working node. But if it would happen I just could start from the scratch.

I'm curious, if I would lose my node, is it just a matter of setting a new device up and downloading the blockchain again, or would I lose any data, which I wouldn't be able to restore anymore?

Your stash doesn't depends on the state of node and is safe if and as long as your wallet (in your case SEED phrase) is safe.

If your lose your node on any reason (let's say due to the faulty hardware) you may set the new one, connect to this new node your wallet and shazam, enjoy to the full again seeing all your balance and the history of transactions, sure your new node will rescan blockchain first to reveal them for you.

Thank's!

satscraper

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 27, 2024, 08:44:28 AM

Quote from: satscraper on April 27, 2024, 05:14:17 AM

In fact I have two old notebooks, one of them, run by Ubuntu, was bought in 2010, while the other one (run by Windows 10) - in 2017. Windows 10 machine alternates with Ubuntu one as the node.

I have two copies of blockchain, each of them is on its own SSD. One copy (on 1 TB SSD) is connected to running node while the other one (on 2 TB SSD) is served as backup for the case of unexpected emergency. Having such setup I don't afraid to lose working node. But if it would happen I just could start from the scratch.

I'm curious, if I would lose my node, is it just a matter of setting a new device up and downloading the blockchain again, or would I lose any data, which I wouldn't be able to restore anymore?

Your stash doesn't depends on the state of node and is safe if and as long as your wallet (in your case SEED phrase) is safe.

If your lose your node for any reason (let's say due to the faulty hardware) you may set the new one, connect to this new node your wallet and shazam, enjoy to the full again seeing all your balance and the history of transactions, sure your new node will rescan blockchain first to reveal them for you.

hawer357

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Quote from: satscraper on April 27, 2024, 05:14:17 AM

In fact I have two old notebooks, one of them, run by Ubuntu, was bought in 2010, while the other one (run by Windows 10) - in 2017. Windows 10 machine alternates with Ubuntu one as the node.

I have two copies of blockchain, each of them is on its own SSD. One copy (on 1 TB SSD) is connected to running node while the other one (on 2 TB SSD) is served as backup for the case of unexpected emergency. Having such setup I don't afraid to lose working node. But if it would happen I just could start from the scratch.

I'm curious, if I would lose my node, is it just a matter of setting a new device up and downloading the blockchain again, or would I lose any data, which I wouldn't be able to restore anymore?

satscraper

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 27, 2024, 03:04:10 AM

What hardware do you use?

Also, do you have to manage backup service for your node? What happens if you loose your node?

In fact I have two old notebooks, one of them, run by Ubuntu, was bought in 2010, while the other one (run by Windows 10) - in 2017. Windows 10 machine alternates with Ubuntu one as the node.

I have two copies of blockchain, each of them is on its own SSD. One copy (on 1 TB SSD) is connected to running node while the other one (on 2 TB SSD) is served as backup for the case of unexpected emergency. Having such setup I don't afraid to lose working node. But if it would happen I just could start from the scratch.

hawer357

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Quote

Yeah, your assumption is correct - the main reason that urges people to connect Sparrow to their own node (rather than to public ones) is the improved privacy.

I run node based on Bitcoin Core with connected Sparrow paired with my Passport 2 and very pleased with such setup because I'm sure that my addresses remain to be hidden to the surveillant agencies that run many of those public nodes.

Thank you for your comment. Would you mind sharing some more technical information on the node you are running? Are you just running Bitcoin Core, or is that wrapped by an operating system that includes Bitcoin Core? I've seen that there are several distributions that include node software like Umbrel.

What hardware do you use? Also, do you have to manage backup service for your node? What happens if you loose your node?

satscraper

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 01:04:55 PM

I did come across the topic "running an own node" very often. This seems to be something people do for privacy reasons and to help the network running. If it is just running a VM or a Raspberry Pi I could consider this, but I'm not sure yet. Do you guys run your own nodes at home? I learned that if I would own a node, it would help keeping my transactions private, but what happens if I can't run the node anymore?

Yeah, your assumption is correct - the main reason that urges people to connect Sparrow to their own node (rather than to public ones) is the improved privacy.

I run node based on Bitcoin Core with connected Sparrow paired with my Passport 2 and very pleased with such setup because I'm sure that my addresses remain to be hidden to the surveillant agencies that run many of those public nodes.

SFR10

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 01:04:55 PM

If it can be added in a later point, I would consider this after increasing my know-how here.

Yes, you can use the passphrase feature at any point in the future, but it's worth mentioning that it's not going to add another layer of protection to your existing standard wallet ^{[e.g. the passphrase-protected wallet will lead to a different set of addresses]}.

Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 01:04:55 PM

If it is just running a VM or a Raspberry Pi I could consider this, but I'm not sure yet. Do you guys run your own nodes at home? I learned that if I would own a node, it would help keeping my transactions private, but what happens if I can't run the node anymore?

If they meet the requirements, you can use it with those... I was running a node with a not-so-powerful laptop for a few months at home, but due to its limited storage, I had to stop ^{[I could've run it in pruned mode, but I didn't want to]}. Regarding the latter part, if you were thinking something bad might happen to your assets ^{[apart from reducing your privacy]}, then the answer is no.

Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 01:04:55 PM

Wonderful, thank you very much, I didn't know of this, while wondering how to get coins into the Testnet.

You're very welcome

hawer357

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 04:55:37 AM

The following testnet faucets will come in handy:

#1
#2

Wonderful, thank you very much, I didn't know of this, while wondering how to get coins into the Testnet.

Thank you very much to all of you - this is really helpful!

SFR10

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 25, 2024, 03:54:58 PM

I've no other intention than saving and holding it for long term.

Quote from: hawer357 on April 25, 2024, 05:36:13 PM

I'll create a new wallet on the Coldcard and transfer the coins to it.

Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 04:55:37 AM

What I now did was selecting the UTXOs and transferring them to my Coldcard wallet,

Considering that you'll be using it to hodl for a long time, you might want to pay attention to the following option: BIP-39 Passphrase
^{Note: Only use this option if you fully understand the risks that come with it!}

Quote from: hawer357 on April 25, 2024, 05:36:13 PM

Do you think there is a problem with using a read only wallet like the Bluewallet on a smartphone with the public key in order to have a sort of notification if something moves from that wallet?

Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 04:55:37 AM

But how do you guys monitor these wallets? Is exporting the public key to a watch only wallet like Bluewallet considered as secure, or do you use other services?

The main issue with this kind of setup is having little to no privacy ^{[assuming that you'd not be using it with your own node]}!

Quote from: hawer357 on April 26, 2024, 04:55:37 AM

even play in "Testnet" (although I'm not sure how I could get initial coins for the Testnet). Thank you.

The following testnet faucets will come in handy:

#1
#2

hawer357

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Thank you very much. What I now did was selecting the UTXOs and transferring them to my Coldcard wallet, which arrived as one single UTXO. If I'm not mistaken this is called "consolidation".

I did read your post regarding ConJoin, which I will try next time or even play in "Testnet" (although I'm not sure how I could get initial coins for the Testnet). Thank you.

I see that may have the setup I'm aiming for by using a cold wallet. But how do you guys monitor these wallets? Is exporting the public key to a watch only wallet like Bluewallet considered as secure, or do you use other services?

satscraper

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Quote from: hawer357 on April 25, 2024, 03:54:58 PM

Hello,

from time to time I'm buying some Bitcoins and store them on my Sparrow Wallet. I've no other intention than saving and holding it for long term.
I've ordered a Coldcard in order to add a bit more security to these saving. I know that I can either import the existing seed words into the new hardware wallet or I could create a new wallet on the hardware and have the Bitcoins transferred from my Sparrow Wallet to the Coldcard. Since the latter would cost my transfer fees I'm unsure if importing the seed would come with any security issues.

If this questions wasn't asked here, I would be thankful if you could help me making the right decision. And if this questions was already answered I would be happy to get a reference to it.

Thank you

I would advocate new SEED on ColdCard (wich has robust source of entropy), pairing ColdCard and Sparrow and transferring you stash to newly created wallet relevant to ColdCard.

BTW, Sparrow has the nice feature namely fake ConJoin (in fact it mimics batch transaction) that could improve (a bit) privacy of transferred fund. Sure, it involves some extra transactions to be made after all your fund is allocated in ColdCard, thus such procedure seems to be feasible at low fee rate.

hawer357

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Thank you very much for your answers. I'll create a new wallet on the Coldcard and transfer the coins to it.

I've just seen that it is also a good moment to consolidate the small UTXOs and transfer them in one piece to the new wallet.

Do you think there is a problem with using a read only wallet like the Bluewallet on a smartphone with the public key in order to have a sort of notification if something moves from that wallet?

Zaguru12

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First, it is a good thing that you want to go for offline wallet as you use look towards long term holding. The idea of importing the wallet into the new wallet is bad because the wallet was created as said above on a hot wallet and you don’t know which malware or anything that it had been exposed to already. Importing it into a cold wallet wouldn’t protect it if at all it had been compromised before. Best thing is to go for new wallet on the coldcard and make a transfer from the current existing wallet to the new one. Yes it will cost you transaction fee but when you compare the risk you know the transaction fee amount is a minimal in terms of risk

Charles-Tim

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It is better you send the coins to an address that you generated on Coldcard. Online wallets are not as safe as cold wallet. If you import Sparrow seed phrase, it means the seed phrase was generated online and not safe like the one you generated offline.

hawer357

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Hello,

from time to time I'm buying some Bitcoins and store them on my Sparrow Wallet. I've no other intention than saving and holding it for long term.
I've ordered a Coldcard in order to add a bit more security to these saving. I know that I can either import the existing seed words into the new hardware wallet or I could create a new wallet on the hardware and have the Bitcoins transferred from my Sparrow Wallet to the Coldcard. Since the latter would cost my transfer fees I'm unsure if importing the seed would come with any security issues.

If this questions wasn't asked here, I would be thankful if you could help me making the right decision. And if this questions was already answered I would be happy to get a reference to it.

Thank you

Topic: Importing Sparrow Wallet into a Cold Wallet (Read 319 times)