Topic: In a discussion, you discuss! (Read 429 times)

In my opinion, one of the system is reporting those who plagiarized because plagiarism is the same as shit posting since the poster didn't even post his/her own work in the forum. Merit system is also one of it and I am sure you know it why it is implemented because of those forum members shit posting and there's also newbies who post and then leave it without checking again to see the replies from other forum members.

Yeah definitely Every member should be aware that the main goal should not only be to open the topic, but also to bring this topic under discussion, that is, if the OP had to ask a question, then he must be a part of the discussion. Present a position. It is not right to open the only topic and leave it empty, but if we look at it, it's certainly spam. Because if I want people's narratives in a matter, I will read them out everyone and give them a reply. 
 
So, mate, you say it absolutely right that when the topic is opened, it should be taken care of properly, it should not be left empty, and moreover, it should be replayed to people so that it seems that there has been a discussion, because everyone follows the OP's context. Yes, it answers his question, but the OP should also not leave his Topic empty.
 

Yes, this is usually found in Newbies, they just open the topic and don't check it out, i.e., don't discuss it. While behavior likewise falls into the category of spam. In my opinion, those people used to behave in the same way just to get merit. So I will kindly request that the newbie stop acting like that way, it is unethical behavior.

hmm, you have raised a good point if there will be no quality posts good posters will get the frustration of the shit posting, and the interaction will get low I mean the quantity of the post has high quality will get low and good posters will not reply to these shit post and in this way, interaction will reduce that is why it is very important to maintain the good quality posting so that we can enjoy the forum. In my personal point of view, if the number of the shit posters will increase good users will lose interest in being active on the forum.

To avoid these poster team has designed a good System where there are many watchers to track these shit posters to clean the forum and in this way forum environment stays good, those posts which are found as good merit sources appreciate them with the using merit system so the good posters get the motivation of doing more good/quality post on the forum.

While I might tend to agree with what your saying here and I would like to believe it’s just how users tend to transcend over time, I think some is just deliberate else, what happens to being curious and inquisitive, clarification of facts as used? Am sure many don’t get it at a go for things that are not that simple. Knowledge really comes in play when you are just about that someone that is about some professional level to a course but, we talking mainly about we that are not.

Having to be really involved in a discussion is really interesting you know. Your met with a lot of feeling, humor, sad, being irritated at some statement, inconclusive and not properly built ideas, ideas that you wouldn’t have thought of yourself, different perspectives to a case and many other attributes that could develop in a discussion, it’s fun and teaching.

We should buckled our shoes if we're keen on making good use of the forum because as time passes by, so it advances to key phases. As for the newcomers, they have their different patterns when it comes to making or requesting suggestions. The newbies have no knowledge about the forum, they're jeopardizing more chances I though could be handled by them. Though not all of them have intelligence when it comes to crypto and healthy talk, I've seen several that are making zero contributions, only typing and fighting for merits.

Your observations are very correct, I think I was a part of the people who do not communicate (discuss) in a discussion but at some point I began to discuss with some members of the forum and I saw the fun in having this conversation. So it took it upon myself to always discuss extensively in discussions. Perhaps it's about to agree and disagree in other to reach a solution hence I do not necessarily agree to some points especially when I think it's not too right hence it puts me in the edge to make research and make good arguments.

It got to a time where I couldn't discuss very well in the forum because I didn't have the notification bot but after I got it, it became much easier to communicate very well. I have also read the previous comments and I found them as good points too.

Yeah, it's most found in us the newbies but perhaps I believe it's as a result of not having enough knowledge in the forum yet, and if observed very well, we then to change as soon as they attain a better height in the forum. So it's not bad if eventually they can change this behaviour but it's bad if it remains so even when ranked up or even they have spent a lot of years in environment yet not know the necessary thing.

When I was new to the forum, it was difficult for me to keep track of my topics and replies except I clicked on "notify me of replies" and this usually floods my emails I didn't like that so I didn't use it. But as I spent more time on the forum, I discovered the BitcoinTalk telegram superNotifier bot. This has helped me keep track of my topics and replies to other posts by other forum members.
So I want to assume a lot of forum members, mostly lower-ranked members don't know about that software.
I think every active member on the forum should use the superNotifier bot, it makes keeping track of your post way easier and it can also notify you of new topics in boards you track.

I try my best to read every comment on my post, especially the topics I created. What's the point of making a post if you don't read the replies? I even read the replies to my post in the gambling section and most times, if it warrants a reply I do. It would be very difficult for me to do that with the telegram bot because I can't think of any other way I'll be able to keep track of all those replies.
I like the fact that you called people's attention to this because there won't be a discussion if everybody just posts what's on their minds and walks away without discussing it.

This attitude is mostly common among newbies and some few ranked users. It's weird to see someone who created a thread seeking for advice or solution abandoned the thread for others to engage without following up or giving feedback where necessary. By standard, how it should be is what you said in your conclusion. However, in as far as Forum is like other discussion platforms, things are being done differently here. Some feedback to some responses on thread might just be a word like OK, noted, thanks, etc. Responding to comments with just a word or one line will definitely qualify you as a spammer. Truth remains that feedback is important to show that you achieve the purpose you create the thread for but in some cases, it's totally unnecessary to avoid spamming.

Again, I still don't understand how this thread is related to signature participants. What brought about campaign and signature discussion here?

You have noticed well that some of the users of the forum do not behave in a manner that would be polite and that we can often see that they open a topic and never come back to comment on anything. The problem here is not only in the fact that such behavior is not polite, but also in the fact that such topics become (mostly) spam megathreads.

Therefore, I would add that every member of the forum who opens a topic should take care of it, and when the topic no longer makes sense, simply lock it.

Well got a point but we cant deny that there are some users whom comment for the sake of signature or just have a single opinion about the topic itself. Usually youll find them on some gambling discussion whereas some are forced to post there due to requirement of a manager in a gambling signature. Thats why I dont join such campaign with the requirement to post there cause what could I say more if I am not active on those gambling site. It would look like you are really there for the payment. Id love to discuss some of my prefered topic and join other or give some commentary on their thoughts as well.

You've stated it yourself that this is a tough one to handle by some CM and to be honest, your solution on the pay rate is really strict and I bet you, at some point you'd want to relax your conditions because by the time users stop meeting requirements and their payments get reduced, they get forced to leave the campaign and look for another with less strict rules and I think that makes you one campaign short because when there is no traffic or the owners of the campaign you are marketing are not satisfied or aren't seeing profit, they are left with no option but to pack up shop and leave.

 Or option two, these participants may decides to exchange merits within themselves but without your knowledge and that doesn't solve the problem at all, it only gives you the illusion that it's being solved, but rather it's just there, operating on a low key.
Like I said earlier, we've had countless solutions offered but this issue still remains like a stubborn acne. For me, I think its best left to the mods or CMs to detect and rate a post that is worthy of being counted as quality posts...
 In just imagining a situation where a sub board dedicated to spam gets created, shit! It will be the most active after the WO 

This forum would be useless if not use for it's purpose and that is discussions about crypto kr anything cryptocurrency related however, there is a system that we all should follow to make this forum the best forum there is is to make forum members understand what to do like the post quality and many more. I am sure no one wants the forum to be like that where it is flooded with spam posts that's why merit system is created. So we should use this forum to share ideas, information and other things that we forum member needed.

I have noticed both sides of the story wherein either newcomers acting like they know everything and they can never go wrong and also how some new comers were bullied and they were questioned in a rude manner for their posts. It should be mutual wherein newcomers need to learn the basics and no one is expert they have to understand this fact and should be ready to accept feedbacks and shortcomings, at the same time the tenured users should be more tolerant unless a scan is spread by newbie.

I have also noticed a trend amongst newcomers, they take comments to heart and are very emotional when others do not agree with their opinion. They tell you not to comment in their thread if you don’t have anything good to say, which is dumb because only a fool will think he is always right. These set of users do not want a discussion in the real sense of the word. They just want supporters and responses that feed their ego.

If the campaign is getting its results and the participants are delivering, that's not really a problem, new campaigns will emerge.

I was editing my last reply, but you were quicker to quote it, so I'll just add what I wanted to say here.
Many campaigns now already have something similar to what you suggested, where they give xx (a fixed number) amount of members a fixed reward as the best posters for the week. This has a definite approach and the campaign project can easily follow through.

Suggesting to the project that what they pay each week is not definite and changes based on who gets what amount of merit will be a hurdle.

Yes true. The only problem is that this leaves a narrow space for new members to join campaigns.

I think the most important job for the manager is in the selection. Many of the users who apply have been in campaigns before anv how they posted there is still available on their profile, go through that and decide if the member is posting solely for the payment or offering quality to the forum. This way you don't have to keep judging their posts weekly, except it drops significantly in quality and effort.

But that's why I suggested different payments. So that a user can be paid upon unmerited posts as they used to, but they also have a chance to educate themselves more and to write more constructive posts to earn the extra merit and therefore, the extra bucks.


That's indeed an issue... But I guess it good work on a monthly basis. So, if a user had posted X posts in a month, then they could get paid monthly using the scheme I suggested above. I know it's not a great pattern, based on the argument you have mentioned. It needs some tweaking but we could find a way.
Anyway... Just a thought.

This will not stop merit exchange. I'm sure there are farms out there with more than ten members who can easily engineer merits on posts around the forum. It's also not a true test of quality and will drive some members to post outside their comfort zone if it doesn't get regular merits and can reduce the actual exposure the project is getting as everyone will be posting in the exact same boards.

Which time frame will it be calculated on? Merits are earned weeks after a post is made.

There are solutions. The easiest one is to use text comparator. But if you want to go a step further, you can also read the whole discussion and use it to judge whether a post deserves to get paid or whether it doesn't.

However, this solution is not possible, because the most reputable campaign managers, manage a bunch of campaigns each. And each campaign has several members, so reading all the posts is a very time consuming task.

What I would do, if I were a campaign manager, would be to pay differently depending on if the post is merited or not. And to avoid merit exchanging I would put a requirement of being merited by at least 3 different members.

Imagine something like this:

Each post will be paid with X dollars.
Each post merited by at least 3 different accounts will be paid with Y dollars.
Each post merited by more than 10 people will be paid Z dollars.

You are not wrong and yes, I've noticed this behavior and who knows I may even be guilty of this. I just think that since this is a social space, there are different peeps with their behavioural patterns that don't really see it as much of a necessity to do something out side the box. This attitude is because they don't bother to read what the person before them said just as you keenly observed. This matter of users making repetitive words just to meet post count is something so many people have complained about, proffered solution for yet it still happens and this often occurs in the gambling section and I'm wondering if there will ever be lasting solution for it or will just have to make do?

No, I am not blaming anyone, but I can't close my eyes when I see people posting with the obvious purpose of making some quick bucks by copy-pasting other peoples' posts. Am I wrong? Haven't you spotted this behaviour in the past?

You won't blame those sets of people because to them it's easier to 'rephrase' answers than make a different response especially if the question is the type that is a bit technical or might need researching. Some how the aim of coming into the forum and learning new things from information given is slowly being blindsided by these users who just sort of copy and paste what someone else has already talked about.
  I've wondered about this too and came to the conclusion that maybe some topics are left open after having gotten the desired response simply because someone can still pick out an interesting point and further open the floor for discussion. _{at least this is what I tell myself in my head} 

Technical discussion remains a board with less spams and that’s mainly due to the fact that, you’ve got to be technical in your discussion there and not so many of the users on this forum are that inclined.
It sometimes bring to mind how, you would be interested in Bitcoin and not seek to know of the technology about it!

I get it that, as a beginner you would be chocked up with terminologies and lots of things that might need you doing a little more research to understand but, it’s the learning process. I think it was the board I started with and I still visit there from time to time even though it’s just to read and it helps my understanding so very much.

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To keep the thread on topic, I think creators of a thread owe it to the forum and the people who are interested in the on going discussion (A thread I would call an on going discussion are: Threads within page 1-2 of a board), you should ensure to revisit that thread, read some of the responses and chip in what you could. Perhaps you got your answer from the very first comment but, with people still discussing within themselves and a few referencing the OP due to the fact that, some users don’t give much attention to comments posted on the topic, you could still have few things to say on the intra arguments in the thread.

Well yeah I am not doing that, at least not intentionally.

Have you spotted this happening from people from signature campaigns? Since we are honest here, there are mainly two reasons for this:

1. Users from signature campaigns want to reach their post limit to get max payment.

2. Newbies who want to get merit and go up in ranking faster.

(3. Spammers - but this is not too common. Most of the time spammers just spam with random posts, not with answers that have already been mentioned.)

I don’t think you are doing the same, at least not repeating what was said before you in the post above. But I’m talking about the fact that one person at the beginning of the topic asks a simple question, someone answers him, and this is essentially enough, but then a series of the same thoughts follows, only in different words. What is this for? It is clear to everyone that the questioner received an answer. Not understanding it means being completely stupid. But the topic goes on for many pages, increasing the amount of spam.
I am always uncomfortable answering this way, knowing that I will look like someone who has not read the above. Such answers are either egoistic, which expresses itself in the fact that a person thinks that his answer is cooler. Or simply fulfilling a quota (and this is most often), but here the person answering makes himself look ridiculous. I emphasize that the question is very simple to answer. But in more complex cases, on the other hand, different opinions are always interesting.

I think the solution to this problem is to post in boards with a lower percentage of spam, such as the technical or serious boards, and to use a self-moderated topic.
If you find a member who is spamming or all of his participation is outside the text or without the intention of discussions, then report him to the campaign manager. If the campaign manager does not remove him, create a topic here^[1] and will given a negative trust according to the situation.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0

OP, thank you for the kind words. In fact, I think we all must try to discuss productively in this forum. The forum is for us. It's our place! And as such, we should focus on improving it.


I have also spotted occasions like this... It's not very odd though. People (sometimes me included), tend to read the OP and then construct an answer without reading the previously mentioned ones.

Definitely there have got to be standards for this forum or any other forums to function properly else, all you can find is garbage and rubbish that belongs no where else than in the trash bag but, we aren’t focused on off-topic responses now are we? Besides, off-topic replies doesn’t really constitute a second response in a thread by same user, you could always have a second, third, fourth and more responses yet, you remain on point or topic.

Maybe your postulating that the fear of off-topic responses drives users to not make a second, third or fourth comment on a thread but even then, it could have prevented your ever commenting in the first place.

While the thread might be addressing how some users discuss, it’s more centered on the initiator of a topic with some relativism to comments from other users.
Let’s mot forget, reading and writing is how we communicate here and sometimes, the way a sentence is read could communicate a different idea from what the writer is projecting. These could be reasons for further clarification in a second, third and fourth comment. This applies to both inter and intra comments.

That’s just how curiosity works, when you want to know, you would be out for those informations, when your out to teach, of course you would find responses that stray or brings to mind new ideas to build on and you do well to tend to that. It all counts for the feedback system for a healthy discussion.

Excellent topic, and specifically in the section for beginners. But you know, OP, a lot of newbies aren't real newbies. There was a time when the creator of a topic had greater prospects of receiving merit than all the subsequent answers to the topic. This was used by many accounts that managed to create several alternative accounts for themselves. And although the boom has already passed, threads with statements like “Hello, I’m new; tell me everything about the forum” happen every day.
You are right that any topic should have a user response and be naturally supported by those who open it. But in fact, sometimes we see a hundred pages of rephrased answers that have the same meaning.
What can I recommend to anyone who wants to know, ask, or, on the contrary, teach something? Do not leave your topics unattended; monitor them, and if you receive sufficient information, show the ability to close the topics yourself so as not to condone further spam.

we have a standard here and which is quality post, if you're making a reply on someone else thread and its off topic, if the moderator see such, it will be deleted, members as well can report such post to the moderators for proper action, it a user creates a thread and its off topic content, it may be deleted as well or moved to off topic section, now this is what is expected concerning making a quality post or replies which i expect everyone to have gone through right from the time of joining this forum.

Posting etiquettes
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52459430

Topic title style guide by Theymos
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1128795

For the purpose of clarity, this thread is created due to the observed trends in some users within my category. Haven’t really spot this behavior within ranked users but, it seems common for beginners and I don’t seem to understand how it is possible or why (take that for a claim).

What might that be?
Some users don’t understand what is feedback system in a discussion. It’s an exchange of ideas and not a sole opinionated sort of sending out a message. This by some means is a disregard of what everyone else’s opinion on a topic especially when your the starter of the topic. It gets worst when you are the starter of that topic, it doesn’t show interest and in most cases, you live people just rambling and not knowing if you get it or not. Of course other users might take there interest but, as a starter of a topic, you should to some extent show interest in that topic, follow it up to some extent before you let loose.
I get it that some topics number into 100 of pages and one can’t or wouldn’t possibly follow through on all the responses that might amass in the topic but, at the beginning phase or before it gets a lot of attention such that it becomes overwhelming for you being the starter, a feedback system requires that your there in the discussions on going in the topic.

Definition of the term (Theme)
Discussion: The term refers to people being one or two or more having to talk(write) about a topic, exchange ideas about it in order to reach a solution on it. Look up in Cambridge Dictionary.

The key words to note here are: people, talking(writing), exchange, idea and solution.
Sums up to mean: people exchanging ideas for solution.

The problem:
This is BitcoinTalkForum and from the way I know it now as much as other communities on the web, it’s a discussion platform and where you come for exchange of ideas. Even while teaching, you expect questions and when not asked, you ask questions or seek understanding of a course to get diverse opinions. That’s how a discussion grows. People might be different, being an introvert and extrovert but, not on the web. It doesn’t apply in an online discussion where your anonymous and have got just you and whatever device your accessing the web with to contend with.

Attributes that could be assumed to spawn this behavior:
I. Hidden agenda,
II. Been forced to write and so you write even without interest in what your proposing,
III. You completely agree to every concept being said even with several inter and intra contradictions.

Would expect more from users on the forum

The expected:
1. It’s highly relevant that you respond to comments in your topic as a starter.
2. It’s more than unlikely that you agree to every argument because you can’t. Some wouldn’t seat well and others will.
3. The energy you give by virtue of response shows interest and spawns discussion.
4. It promotes more thinking when you discuss and brings up constructive argument.
5. The content is better developed and ideas promoted in this nature.

what more can you add

I have been in few boards of the forum and indeed spot some users with great attributes to discussing. Am speaking of users like: ABCbits, LoyceV, JayJuanGee, BlackHatcoiner, apogio, Pooya87, Lovesmayfamilis, upgrade00, hugeblack, philipma1957 and a few others too numerous to mention but, shout out to you guys that promote a healthy and make great conversationists in the forum. Your efforts aren’t unnoticed and you sure make good models.

These guys almost revisits all there topics and comments even to say the least. Offer more insights if need be and answer questions on them. Learning from these guys would definitely aid in self development and resilience when it comes to participation on the forum.

Note: This is just personal observation based on interaction and the places I habit on the forum. Am sure there are a great lot of other conversationists here but, from the few I’ve got to interact with or take into account I have mentioned and not all of them too for sure.

In conclusion:
Perhaps there might not be a final solution to every discussion but, your not in a discussion if all you do is create a topic or just drop a comment and your off. While in a discussion, you should discuss!