In Qatar called "unfounded" the rupture of diplomatic relations with six countri

Lieldoryn

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Quote from: Daniel91 on June 11, 2017, 04:21:38 AM

Situation with Qatar really became very tense sand dangerous, very close to real war according to some media reports.
It looks that Qatar became a collateral victim of the open conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and their struggle for supremacy in the Arab world.
US President Trump, with his misleading statements, adding fire to this conflict instead of calming down the situation.
I hope that we will not see another war in Arab world, similar to Iraq and Iran's war 40 years ago.

Muslims are very aggressive people and, therefore, in the Arab world will never be calm. Even when countries in the middle East there is no official war, there are constantly people dying in the endless attacks.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 12, 2017, 04:17:32 AM

Hmmm... would that cause those Shiites to end up "stateless"? I suppose Saudi Arabia is not a signatory to the agreement that tried to ensure that no person will be without nationality. I wonder if we can do that to Sunnis here in the Philippines.

Oh, never mind, the UN would be on our tails if we tried. Grin

Or maybe we can just take in Christians from Malaysia and Indonesia, the same way we took in Japanese when Christians were persecuted in their countries. Indonesia is starting to be more intolerant now.

Muslims are more equal than the others, according to the UN. They always bark when some Muslim is persecuted in Myanmar or Thailand. But they never utter a single word when Hindus and Christians are treated worse than animals in countries such as Bangladesh and Pakistan.

And I don't believe that Indonesia is more tolerant now. Indonesians were originally Hindus, who were forcibly converted to Islam during the 16th century. As seen from history, the children of such converts grow up as fanatic Muslims.

awesome31312

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Is Qatar really being punished for not participating in the military industrial complex? We all know what happens to the countries that refuse to bow down

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 11, 2017, 11:26:18 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 11, 2017, 03:02:41 PM

Oh, so it's Saudi trying to prop up a regime again, how typical of them. I'm assuming when you said "forced demographic change" it got something to do with birth control.

No. They didn't used birth control as a means to control the demographics (as far as I know). On the other hand, they revoked the citizenship of a large number of Shiite citizens (using treason as an excuse) and granted citizenship to tens of thousands of Sunni Arabs from countries such as Syria and Iraq.

Hmmm... would that cause those Shiites to end up "stateless"? I suppose Saudi Arabia is not a signatory to the agreement that tried to ensure that no person will be without nationality. I wonder if we can do that to Sunnis here in the Philippines.

Oh, never mind, the UN would be on our tails if we tried. Grin

Or maybe we can just take in Christians from Malaysia and Indonesia, the same way we took in Japanese when Christians were persecuted in their countries. Indonesia is starting to be more intolerant now.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 11, 2017, 03:02:41 PM

Oh, so it's Saudi trying to prop up a regime again, how typical of them. I'm assuming when you said "forced demographic change" it got something to do with birth control.

No. They didn't used birth control as a means to control the demographics (as far as I know). On the other hand, they revoked the citizenship of a large number of Shiite citizens (using treason as an excuse) and granted citizenship to tens of thousands of Sunni Arabs from countries such as Syria and Iraq.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 11, 2017, 12:32:15 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 10, 2017, 07:54:31 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 10, 2017, 01:18:00 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 09, 2017, 08:00:17 AM

They might not try to invade Qatar but don't dismiss the possibility of a "regime change". They might do another round of the Arab Spring somewhere and just have Qatar as one of the casualties.

I wouldn't rule out a regime change in Qatar completely, but the chances are minimal. Qatar is a very small country, and the total number of citizens is just around 300,000 and almost all of them have blood relations with the royal family. And also, there is no infighting within the royal family. They are quite united behind the Emir (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani).

Oh. It was years ago when that horrible thing happened. My memory must be foggy. Was it Bahrain that had protests? I remember there were a few Gulf countries that joined along. Also remember a march on some landmark, I believe it was something like "pearl rotunda". I mean, after all the protests in Tunisia, people in other Arab countries started going outside, like in Egypt.

The situation in Bahrain is entirely different. It is a Shia-majority nation (at least 60% of the population before the forced demographic changes began), ruled by a Sunni monarchy. The Bahrainis were trying to overthrow the regime with help from Iran, but the riots were put down by the Saudi-backed forces.

Oh, so it's Saudi trying to prop up a regime again, how typical of them. I'm assuming when you said "forced demographic change" it got something to do with birth control.

Ugh, can't wait for all that oil to run dry. Prior to the oil engine, whatever sectarian differences there are in that parched piece of dirt don't affect everyone. It seems they can barely tolerate each other, discriminating the people of the other sect should they come to power (like in Iraq).

Daniel91

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Situation with Qatar really became very tense sand dangerous, very close to real war according to some media reports.
It looks that Qatar became a collateral victim of the open conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and their struggle for supremacy in the Arab world.
US President Trump, with his misleading statements, adding fire to this conflict instead of calming down the situation.
I hope that we will not see another war in Arab world, similar to Iraq and Iran's war 40 years ago.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 10, 2017, 07:54:31 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 10, 2017, 01:18:00 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 09, 2017, 08:00:17 AM

They might not try to invade Qatar but don't dismiss the possibility of a "regime change". They might do another round of the Arab Spring somewhere and just have Qatar as one of the casualties.

I wouldn't rule out a regime change in Qatar completely, but the chances are minimal. Qatar is a very small country, and the total number of citizens is just around 300,000 and almost all of them have blood relations with the royal family. And also, there is no infighting within the royal family. They are quite united behind the Emir (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani).

Oh. It was years ago when that horrible thing happened. My memory must be foggy. Was it Bahrain that had protests? I remember there were a few Gulf countries that joined along. Also remember a march on some landmark, I believe it was something like "pearl rotunda". I mean, after all the protests in Tunisia, people in other Arab countries started going outside, like in Egypt.

The situation in Bahrain is entirely different. It is a Shia-majority nation (at least 60% of the population before the forced demographic changes began), ruled by a Sunni monarchy. The Bahrainis were trying to overthrow the regime with help from Iran, but the riots were put down by the Saudi-backed forces.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 10, 2017, 01:18:00 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 09, 2017, 08:00:17 AM

They might not try to invade Qatar but don't dismiss the possibility of a "regime change". They might do another round of the Arab Spring somewhere and just have Qatar as one of the casualties.

I wouldn't rule out a regime change in Qatar completely, but the chances are minimal. Qatar is a very small country, and the total number of citizens is just around 300,000 and almost all of them have blood relations with the royal family. And also, there is no infighting within the royal family. They are quite united behind the Emir (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani).

Oh. It was years ago when that horrible thing happened. My memory must be foggy. Was it Bahrain that had protests? I remember there were a few Gulf countries that joined along. Also remember a march on some landmark, I believe it was something like "pearl rotunda". I mean, after all the protests in Tunisia, people in other Arab countries started going outside, like in Egypt.

If they were only allowed to do this on their own, it probably wouldn't be this messy. At least if they fcuked up they can only blame themselves and the regime. Not like now where they're all calling "death to the West". The invasion of Libya was uncalled for and set the stage for the migrant crisis now in Europe. Say what you want about Gaddafi but I believe if Libya is still OK now he would have taken in many of those refugees.

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Well Al-Jazeera is doing updates on the stuff so adding as a note
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06/qatar-diplomatic-crisis-latest-updates-170605105550769.html
Looks like Oil rules aren't changing and Eritrea and Turkey didn't give a fu, anyway more concerned that Qatar is destroyed ... then more chaos cause of interventionism.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 09, 2017, 08:00:17 AM

They might not try to invade Qatar but don't dismiss the possibility of a "regime change". They might do another round of the Arab Spring somewhere and just have Qatar as one of the casualties.

I wouldn't rule out a regime change in Qatar completely, but the chances are minimal. Qatar is a very small country, and the total number of citizens is just around 300,000 and almost all of them have blood relations with the royal family. And also, there is no infighting within the royal family. They are quite united behind the Emir (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani).

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 08, 2017, 10:47:34 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 08, 2017, 05:24:00 AM

Guess they'll be next to be bombed into democracy for supporting terrorism, eh?

I don't think that they will push Qatar beyond a certain limit. Already they are improving their relations with Iran, and if the Saudis remain too aggressive, then Qatar will break from the GCC alliance and align with Iran. This will be a major blow for the KSA and the US in the middle east region.

Never underestimate what KSA and US would do to further their plans. I believe KSA is still not done with Yemen, where they're hopelessly trying to bolster the regime. The last thing they'd want is a country on the Arabian peninsula aligned with Iran. Sure this might be to pressure Qatar but I doubt they'd stop at this if the pressure don't break the country enough.

They might not try to invade Qatar but don't dismiss the possibility of a "regime change". They might do another round of the Arab Spring somewhere and just have Qatar as one of the casualties.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 08, 2017, 05:24:00 AM

Guess they'll be next to be bombed into democracy for supporting terrorism, eh?

I don't think that they will push Qatar beyond a certain limit. Already they are improving their relations with Iran, and if the Saudis remain too aggressive, then Qatar will break from the GCC alliance and align with Iran. This will be a major blow for the KSA and the US in the middle east region.

Lancusters

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I have mixed opinion about this. On the one hand I don't see anything wrong with what they bought well-known and valuable for people. How many sailors bathed Somali pirates! On the other hand it could be a planned operation for the maintenance of the terrorists. Who can guarantee that it is not.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: PeterTheGrape on June 05, 2017, 11:30:43 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 05, 2017, 11:23:56 AM

Wasn't it a few days ago that hackers released emails from UAE's ambassador to the US? Apparently there's a conspiracy to link Qatar and Bahrain with terrorism. Looks like everyone's ganging up on Qatar. A pity that those two countries mentioned were actually the more progressive among the Gulf States.

Quote

Al Jazeera, also known as JSC, is a Doha-based state-funded broadcaster owned by the Al Jazeera Media Network, which is partly funded by the House of Thani, the ruling family of Qatar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera

I don't need to look it up in Wikipedia. I know Qatar funds that network. They mention it every time they report something about the Qatari government.

Regardless whether they report about this or not, the hackings Qatar's various agencies suffered before this fiasco (also hacked their official news agency and used its site and twitter to post various articles against Qatar) shows that this has been carefully planned.

Guess they'll be next to be bombed into democracy for supporting terrorism, eh?

Sithara007

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Quote from: killerfrost on June 06, 2017, 03:24:18 PM

This can force Qatar to change sides to Turkey and Iran to survive.

Turkey has no reasons to go against Saudi Arabia. Actually the KSA and Turkey are cooperating a lot in Syria. Qatar may find some solace in its relations with Iran. But I don't know how practical it is. Qatar is Salafist Sunni, while Iran is militant Shia.

HAARP

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Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 06, 2017, 05:07:47 AM

Have become aware of some details of this conflict. Qatar paid terrorists about $1 billion to free the 26 members of the Royal family, kidnapped in Iraq during a falconry. The money went to the liberation of about 50 soldiers, captured by the extremists in Syria. Another $200 - $300 million received Islamist groups in Syria, in particular, "Tahrir al-sham". Qatar of course denies everything, but the smoke without fire does not happen. It's probably true. One can only imagine how many lives will take this billion dollars.

interesting story. i have never heard of it before. is there any source thar we can see about this?

popcorn1

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Quote from: merchantofzeny on June 06, 2017, 02:40:40 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2017, 08:32:02 PM

Qatar has been one of the main sponsors of the Wahhabi ideology for the past many years. Before the LNG boom, it used to be Saudi Arabia. But it is ironic that now the old sponsors are ganging up against the new sponsor.

Weird was that they tried to drag Bahrain into this and now Bahrain joined them against Qatar. I wonder how Qatar will survive this ganging they're receiving.

Do anyone have links to the mentioned hacked emails? From what I'm hearing, it says UAE was behind this shaming campaign. I also read somewhere that prior to the announcement from the Gulf neighbors, Qatar's news agency's (not al Jazeera) website and Twitter was hacked and used to release several articles against Qatar.

This is some high-level backstabbing we're seeing now.

This is some high-level backstabbing we're seeing now.

YES money brings out the best in us all.
I once heard a friend say his brother stabbed him in the back over money.
So i told him yes money can be the root of all evil..

Then he said piss off you tit Cheesy

killerfrost

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Saudi Arabia is the biggest supporter and biggest financier of terrorism. 15 of the 19 911 bomber were Saudis and Saudis were funding madrasas across the world sowing Wahhabi ideology. Qatar is only rank second to Saudi Arabia.

This can force Qatar to change sides to Turkey and Iran to survive.

Slow death

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Quote from: joebrook on June 05, 2017, 01:59:01 PM

Quote from: Basmic on June 05, 2017, 06:47:38 AM

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, followed by Yemen and Libya said on Monday morning about the break of diplomatic relations with neighboring Qatar, which they accused of supporting terrorists and extremists. The reason for this was the scandal with the publication by the Qatari news Agency statements, on behalf of the Emir on the need to establish relations with Iran. Later the official representative the Ministry of foreign Affairs of Qatar said the hacking of the website of the Agency, in connection with which this message is untrue. However, UAE, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia did not believe the explanation of a diplomat, and UAE Minister for foreign Affairs Anwar Gargash called on Qatar to change its policy and not to repeat past mistakes, to restore relations with neighbors. What is the policy or attempt to provoke a rise in oil prices?

I dont understand why there Arabs are fighting between themselves, Without a doubt, one or more of the countries mentioned do support terrorism, There is no better reason to explain how these terrorist organisations get all the money to fund their heinous crimes, they must have a very wealthy donor somewhere.

I think many of these billionaire politicians support terrorism and manipulate these Muslims.

Unfortunately the Muslims are easily manipulated because of their religion

awesome31312

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Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 06, 2017, 05:07:47 AM

Have become aware of some details of this conflict. Qatar paid terrorists about $1 billion to free the 26 members of the Royal family, kidnapped in Iraq during a falconry. The money went to the liberation of about 50 soldiers, captured by the extremists in Syria. Another $200 - $300 million received Islamist groups in Syria, in particular, "Tahrir al-sham". Qatar of course denies everything, but the smoke without fire does not happen. It's probably true. One can only imagine how many lives will take this billion dollars.

Do you have dementia? Or do you selectively and so conveniently dismiss US funding of "rebels" in the Middle East for about seven decades? Even today, they continue to fund terrorism. This has to stop! #Notwithmymoney

Okurkabinladin

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2017, 08:32:02 PM

Qatar has been one of the main sponsors of the Wahhabi ideology for the past many years. Before the LNG boom, it used to be Saudi Arabia. But it is ironic that now the old sponsors are ganging up against the new sponsor.

Yes, thank you for clearing that up.

Qutar has been leading sponsor of Al-Qada and ISIS for many years. trying to pity "poor guy" now is akin to pathological disease. Linking up Qutar with either democracy or Iran (which is shiite) also doesnt have any basis in reality.

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 06, 2017, 05:00:04 AM

This is absolutely unbelievable! Qatar withdraws from the military industrial complex, so now they are being labeled as terrorists! This is exactly what they did to Iran that caused the hostage crises. No wonder Iran is supporting Qatar by sending them resources. We simply cannot afford more blowback. The US needs to get its nose out of there right now! It's real easy for politicians to talk tough to other countries when it is not them that are going to be the ones suffering the consequences of such trash talking!

Why not? Jihadi sponsors are ready to start to kill each other, so where is the problem? The rift among arab sunni theocracies will be without doubt used by Iran to strenghten its position in the middle East. Iran is far superior as far as keeping promises go, so I dont see problem from western point of view.

Lieldoryn

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Have become aware of some details of this conflict. Qatar paid terrorists about $1 billion to free the 26 members of the Royal family, kidnapped in Iraq during a falconry. The money went to the liberation of about 50 soldiers, captured by the extremists in Syria. Another $200 - $300 million received Islamist groups in Syria, in particular, "Tahrir al-sham". Qatar of course denies everything, but the smoke without fire does not happen. It's probably true. One can only imagine how many lives will take this billion dollars.

awesome31312

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This is absolutely unbelievable! Qatar withdraws from the military industrial complex, so now they are being labeled as terrorists! This is exactly what they did to Iran that caused the hostage crises. No wonder Iran is supporting Qatar by sending them resources. We simply cannot afford more blowback. The US needs to get its nose out of there right now! It's real easy for politicians to talk tough to other countries when it is not them that are going to be the ones suffering the consequences of such trash talking!

Netnox

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Quote from: merchantofzeny on June 06, 2017, 02:40:40 AM

Weird was that they tried to drag Bahrain into this and now Bahrain joined them against Qatar. I wonder how Qatar will survive this ganging they're receiving.

Bahrain is one of the poorest nations in the Gulf region, as they don't have any deposits of oil and gas. Their economy depends on trade with the Saudis. Many things which are prohibited in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are readily available in Bahrain (especially liquor and women). So they will do whatever the Saudis ask them to do. No surprise there.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: Sithara007 on June 05, 2017, 08:32:02 PM

Qatar has been one of the main sponsors of the Wahhabi ideology for the past many years. Before the LNG boom, it used to be Saudi Arabia. But it is ironic that now the old sponsors are ganging up against the new sponsor.

Weird was that they tried to drag Bahrain into this and now Bahrain joined them against Qatar. I wonder how Qatar will survive this ganging they're receiving.

Do anyone have links to the mentioned hacked emails? From what I'm hearing, it says UAE was behind this shaming campaign. I also read somewhere that prior to the announcement from the Gulf neighbors, Qatar's news agency's (not al Jazeera) website and Twitter was hacked and used to release several articles against Qatar.

This is some high-level backstabbing we're seeing now.

Sithara007

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Qatar has been one of the main sponsors of the Wahhabi ideology for the past many years. Before the LNG boom, it used to be Saudi Arabia. But it is ironic that now the old sponsors are ganging up against the new sponsor.

PeterTheGrape

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Quote from: joebrook on June 05, 2017, 01:59:01 PM

... to explain how these terrorist organisations get all the money ...

There are two separate things

1) Individuals who were raised in rough houses with poor education, so they throw rocks or bombs or gasoline cocktails

2) Organizations that try to provide a structure to those individuals, like a surrogate family.

-

When somebody says terrorist in place of criminal, or criminal in place of childish, they are on the road to terror or crime.

dobansa

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It all looks like a campaign of misinformation by both sides, and this big war between major factions in the middle east is gonna be an economic one rather than a military one. Will be interesting to see how it develops and whether it will spill over to global markets.

joebrook

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Quote from: Basmic on June 05, 2017, 06:47:38 AM

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, followed by Yemen and Libya said on Monday morning about the break of diplomatic relations with neighboring Qatar, which they accused of supporting terrorists and extremists. The reason for this was the scandal with the publication by the Qatari news Agency statements, on behalf of the Emir on the need to establish relations with Iran. Later the official representative the Ministry of foreign Affairs of Qatar said the hacking of the website of the Agency, in connection with which this message is untrue. However, UAE, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia did not believe the explanation of a diplomat, and UAE Minister for foreign Affairs Anwar Gargash called on Qatar to change its policy and not to repeat past mistakes, to restore relations with neighbors. What is the policy or attempt to provoke a rise in oil prices?

I dont understand why there Arabs are fighting between themselves, Without a doubt, one or more of the countries mentioned do support terrorism, There is no better reason to explain how these terrorist organisations get all the money to fund their heinous crimes, they must have a very wealthy donor somewhere.

PeterTheGrape

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 05, 2017, 11:23:56 AM

Wasn't it a few days ago that hackers released emails from UAE's ambassador to the US? Apparently there's a conspiracy to link Qatar and Bahrain with terrorism. Looks like everyone's ganging up on Qatar. A pity that those two countries mentioned were actually the more progressive among the Gulf States.

Quote

Al Jazeera, also known as JSC, is a Doha-based state-funded broadcaster owned by the Al Jazeera Media Network, which is partly funded by the House of Thani, the ruling family of Qatar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera

HAARP

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this will bring iran and qatar together against these six arabic countries. very risky act...

Mometaskers

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Wasn't it a few days ago that hackers released emails from UAE's ambassador to the US? Apparently there's a conspiracy to link Qatar and Bahrain with terrorism. Looks like everyone's ganging up on Qatar. A pity that those two countries mentioned were actually the more progressive among the Gulf States.

PeterTheGrape

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About 40 years ago the Arabs tried to form an economic and political bloc to have more power as an ethnic group. They were easily stymied.

Now they have been driven to a situation in which there are two strong emotional camps, basically Saudi Arabia vs Iran. Both camps are similar in basic ways, they are both "traditional" but the political difference lets them develop in such a way that they can integrate Western ideas as well, though the cost is high.

There is a high price to be paid by people who don't have money i.e., they are called terrorists until they get money, and outsiders profit from the division like vultures, but smart people should not be baffled by the bullshit. At the end of the day there are killers who will be killed and peaceful people who will have peace and the spoils of conflict.

Jet Cash

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It looks as if the share price in Sainsburys ( the UK supermarket chain ) went down by 1% as well. Qatar is the effective owner of Sainsburys.

sindikat

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The share index of Qatar dropped in the first hour of the auction by 8% after Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Yemen declared severance of diplomatic relations and closure of boundaries with Qatar.
Actions of one of leading companies of Vodafone Qatar lost 10% of cost – a trade limit in a day. This number included the stocks Qatar National Bank, the largest bank of the country which depreciated for 6,4%. According to issuing, Qatar Airways as won't be able to fly to one of the most expensive countries of the world can suffer most.
We will mark that the markets of the countries of the region also fell, but it is insignificant: the exchange in Dubai loses 0,8%, Saudi Arabia - 0,2%.
It is supposed that Qatar will be able to endure this political crisis as the country has national welfare fund on 335 billion dollars, the balance of trade balance reaches 2,7 billion dollars Qatar also possesses powerful ports which can use instead of the closed overland boundary with Saudi Arabia.

Basmic

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Saudi Arabia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, followed by Yemen and Libya said on Monday morning about the break of diplomatic relations with neighboring Qatar, which they accused of supporting terrorists and extremists. The reason for this was the scandal with the publication by the Qatari news Agency statements, on behalf of the Emir on the need to establish relations with Iran. Later the official representative the Ministry of foreign Affairs of Qatar said the hacking of the website of the Agency, in connection with which this message is untrue. However, UAE, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia did not believe the explanation of a diplomat, and UAE Minister for foreign Affairs Anwar Gargash called on Qatar to change its policy and not to repeat past mistakes, to restore relations with neighbors. What is the policy or attempt to provoke a rise in oil prices?

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