Topic: In the past where taxes were honoured ~ (Read 307 times)

Don't use your right to vote in elections just because have to elect the candidates. Our votes are useful in voicing our interests, so we must choose honest and credible representatives whose totality fights for the interests of the people and not for personal or group interests. Millennial generation must be critical and also capable in politics. So that when our representatives work, they can issue policies that support the livelihoods of the people.

In addition, as individuals, we must be critical and closely monitoring the taxation process, and ensure the government uses the tax for the right allocation. Especially to support the construction of public facilities, such as transportation infrastructure, health facilities, and infrastructure as well as promoting education. And this is only possible if we have clean representatives in the government.

You’re referring to the past and I guess the mentality we have now and then isn’t the same. And moreover you didn’t even mention what country it was. And there’s something else you said about only the rich being taxed.

These days people are so greedy and they want to stash up lots of money and not give, because they don’t think that it’s worth giving, they just want to be the ones that are taking and nothing else, they don’t want to give out their money. Lol imagine giving the rich person a road and such projects to work on lol, they will feel you’re giving them extra expenses. Well, I do know that there are some of them that are good.

Making taxes exceptional isn't a good alternative for the current period. Who will pay it in this case? 

The highest tax payers are elite, let's name them like that, and elite always work together with government. To be clear on one thing government is just like a company, with clear structure, and with one more important thing "guns". Who run the government has the access to huge amounts of money, teritory and many other assets, the thing with government is that every 4 years (in most countries, in some it's less in others it's forever) we have a change in many boards, comisions and all that stuff that decide how will assets be use and where.
In history you have periods and places where elites from both sectors worked for the benefit of the people too, rare cases I think. In the past we have many more cases where these two worked just for their own benefit, and that is what brings us here. In most countries today tax money is being stolen by rich class and government officials, in some tax money is being used for the benefit of entire nation.
We need to pay taxes, and it's ok to pay taxes, but that money (OUR MONEY) should be used for good things, for our own benefits, not for buying guns and making wars with other nations, not for making rich people even richer. So what we need is a fair system and what else can help us than decentralization, where each of us can have a voice, you don't need to be rich or to be a president, but if something is from public interest you should have a voice and possibility to see what is being done with your money.

it was a nice read tho.  i like the idea of honoring big time tax payer , in that way people are encourage to pay thier taxes but now i dont heard of such system , this was also the reason on why people are refusing to pay thier tax but there was a law about it that you will be fined if you evade your tax .

whats worst right now is that not only rich people are paying taxed but almost all people now pays a tax  . rich or poor , that could be in a form when you work , run a business , buy something , etc .

I think this system is not fair because the richest person will take advantage of this system. And of course its depend on the government if they are corrupt the taxes will get high too and the poor people are the most victims of this kind of system.

as in my country there is an income limit that is not subject to annual tax. even then it is still reduced by non-taxable income in accordance with the number of dependents, with the magnitude of each different variable. if the income after deducting the income is not subject to tax under the provisions, then the person is tax exempt, but must still report

This is one of the ideas having already been discussed for the number of years "guaranteed income", which will be funded from so called "robot-tax" (same source of funding will be used for pension scheme).

In a normal country, such situations should also be provided for. And if a person's income is less than the subsistence minimum, then their salary should not be taxed. In such cases, the person on the contrary should receive an allowance from the government.

There have always been varying political factions. At times of war maybe it could have been the only time nationalist sentiments were so strong that paying taxes might have been considered patriotic and therefore honored. But for any other time, I think that anyone would rather NOT pay taxes and would turn a blind eye for their neighbor finding ways to do so.

I still tend to the fact that people who receive little should not pay taxes at all.

As an example: We have 10 people, let the income tax be 10%. 9 of them receive $ 500 per month, and one receives $ 10,000 per month. Total treasury from them collects $ 1450 per month. But at the same time, the same amount can be obtained if the first nine people do not pay anything, and the latter will pay instead of 10% only 14.5% of the tax.

I think this is just an old tradition from old time, now they have learned the art of helicopter money since 2008, it brings income much faster than tax collecting, time to change the system

In addition to that, it is really unfortunate that poor are always paying  a high value of taxes and some of them cannot even pay because their financial  income are really weak compared to the rich people, some laws must be changed in most of countries especially the poorest in my opinion. Furthermore, the value of taxes in general are unacceptable, I don't know why the governments want to exploit their citizens in all the ways.

There won't be any inflation, as evidenced by QE123, so much money printed, almost no inflation. Government has spent trillions through QE123, but you can check their tax income, a very small fraction of that. So, the government might get 10% less income without tax income, but that is not the end of the world

If the state replaces taxes with printing new money, it will lead to very high inflation. And then the little money that the poor have will cost nothing at all, and it will be impossible to buy anything for it. Therefore, taxes should be paid depending on the amount of income : the poor - less, the rich - more.

I really doubt whether handing out rewards would do the job. The main problem for tax payers now is that a section of the UHNW individuals are able to find loopholes and avoid paying their dues, while an uneven burden falls on the shoulder of the remaining people. Also, many of them are not comfortable in the tax money being used to wage wars and other wasteful expenses.

Why should state obliged to collect taxes from its citizens today, when they get much more by printing money?

I think it should work like this: Print a lot of money, give a little to poor people so that they can live a good life, and do not give any to rich people. And totally remove the concept of tax

Tax is a very old concept when in old time, government does not know how to print money and only use gold as money, and they have to get some money to build the defense of the country and other infrastructure. But today, with crazy money injection every month, the tax income of the state becomes neglectable, all the government spends are financed through newly printed money, not tax

The state is simply obliged to collect taxes from its citizens. But taxes must remain fair. I believe that those who have more income should also pay more taxes than the poor. And if they want their good deeds to be noticed, they could spend some of their money on charity.

Honestly, I have never heard of such a society. Speaking of taxes, I think that they should be progressive and organized in such a way that the poor do not pay anything, and the rich pay a little more, but their money covers the shortcomings of the poor.

 I don't understand the logic behind todays tax system: Tax income is magnitudes lower than the newly created money that governement can borrow, so why hire lots of people just to tax people and get neglectable income?

Take QE for example, money supply increased by 500%, equal to that every one is taxed by 500%, but for majority low income people, the tax is maybe less than 10%

I don't agree with this as I never know what happens inside the government but somehow it does make sense to me. I've been living for more than 2 decades and the roads are still what it is as when I was a child, no progress no new and makes me wonder where did a lot of money go? Maybe the tax system is never fair or we are just focusing on what is near to us and do not think of the other places and what does it cost for society projects. Billions are effective and billions are on waste, agree?

I just realized that we may meet blockchain tax system where govs is controlling how to spend those money, but can't really withdraw it - they can only be spend on community's needs.
I know there is a similar system at the moment, but it goes same as with elections - we already have working system, but its just too bad

The government will spend $12b on roads, schools, healthcare, this government will an extra $xxx billions in this an that. It's the news we all read every day, but the truth is that it's not their money, it's the money from the people who pay taxes and bills, it's our money.
What they do with all that money, they take half for them and the other half is for all others. The tax system was never fair, the rich are getting richer since ever. We can just hope that crypto can change that, we are all equal and some things should be equal for all!

Maybe what you are saying worked in a kingdom having few thousands population but not at all possible in modern economy. In my country more than 1.5 billion people live, do you think government can even pick individuals and provide them recognition? I don't think attention-seeking generation of today will do anything of that sort if not getting enough attention.

Also modern countries are not run for kings, these are run by leaders from political parties who are mostly hated by people. No matter with what intention they deliver something, people will always hate them for no reason. For example, in my country Prime Minister requested rich section to giveaway their LPG cylinder subsidy. The amount saved from such subsidy would then be used to provide free gas to 'below-poverty class'. Guess what? In the country of 1.5 billion population, only 700K people gaveaway subsidy. There is no harmony left among people.

However, Income Tax Department here in India is trying to create some incentives for tax payer. Based on the amount of tax payed, tax payers are getting some recognition. Even I received Silver Certificate for my tax contribution. However, I cannot flaunt that on my social media else it will guarantee burglary at my place. In short, honor comes with risk in modern times.

Tax is a burden imposed by the government, which is collected as a necessity and used to cover the general government budget, fulfill economic, social, political, and other objectives set by the state. And It's different with zakat.

The pros and cons of tax problems always occur in each generation. In examining this condition, the analogy is very simple. Taxes are government policies and obligations of all citizens. As citizens, we must comply with state regulations. For those who are against tax, the choice is legal sanctions by the state. Therefore, do not become passive citizens, because we have been forced to pay taxes, so let us actively and critically monitor the allocation of tax used by the government so that it is right on target and effective for the interests of citizens.

Well, perhaps you are right.
Today's tax system is different. The rich won't consider paying taxes as am honor anymore, --Why? Because they already knew where do their taxes go and that is another story. The rich people of today are wiser than before. That is the reality, --Why? Rich people today know how to play with taxes already. They know that laws had loopholes they can take advantage of. Mostly, the government officials are the ones who are helping them as well and in exchange, the officials will be paid in private. Directly to their pockets.
Indeed, tax Lawyers are meant to exist, as well. This is my personal opinion and I hope this makes sense.

In the past, due to the religious reasons and ethics based on them, the rich had the moral obligation to help poorer ones. "The more wealth I have, the more people I could help". So then beside paying taxes, they had been founding churches, hospitals, bridges, universities, sometimes feeding poor etc.

As a result, their reputation had been increasing among other living, and stayed in the history - as the buildings or institutions had often been named after the founder.

Half? No, they will not be asking half of someone's income or profit. They may do some double taxation to some but they have their reasons, and they are not asking for half of it but just a percentage of it. Taxation is based on the people's ability to tax, you should always keep that in mind.

Well, in history, people get slaughtered because they refuse to pay Zakat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat#Failure_to_pay

It's obligatory by the way,

Source: https://www.saudiembassy.net/five-pillars-islam

Kindly go to Politics and Society board if you want to discuss more about this.

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There are two sides of human, x and y, push and pull, good and evil, yin and yang, etc., you cannot embrace one side and completely neglect the other. Some people want to feel good/right by voluntarily paying taxes, however, some will not.

The history of taxes is related to money and conflict between classes. Initially, taxes were optional, and then they were imposed "more fairly", but unfortunately the main target of them were the rich and those who were not happy with the old system.
Taxes are currently imposed on idiots or those who do not know how to use the tax system in order to pay the least amount possible "by legal means." Those who want to pay taxes happily without caring about how to reduce them.

If all the tax money has been used for the development of people and country or any other good things then people will pay the right amount of tax by themselves but when government ask half of the hard earned money as form of tax then no one will be ready to give it.

if we trace indeed between zakat and tax have the same goal, namely to prosper others, and help our brothers in need. it's just that the system used is different, taxes are coercive, if they don't obey they get a fine, but if taxes grow from the heart

It's pretty easy to hide the amount of wealth one owns tbh. And if there were an insider inside the governing system, it makes hiding it a whole lot more easier. Even if we do say reference from the expenditure of the household, they could easily say that THAT was the last of the savings their household has. The system of the past was effective because it was OF THE PAST.

Do note that things have changed because of man kind's intelligence, and if we were to apply the same tax rules as of the past, the intelligence of man would prove to be worthy of its reputation and easily bypass any kind of law they would want. Especially if there are a few like-minded individuals both inside and outside the governing system.

I think there is a lot to break down in what you've just wrote.

I can't think of any system off the top of my head where people were rewarded, socially, for providing the most to government, at least in the modern era. If someone is able to find something like this, I'd love to read into it a bit.

Taxes are honored as of right now. Honored, in my view of the word, simply means paying all that is owed of you. Whatever the current law of the land is in regards to what you have to pay is that you pay. And that's what most Americans and most rich people do. I would never want to pay a penny more then what I have to pay someone, and it shouldn't be expected that I go above and beyond for some reason.

Also, when people talk of something like loopholes I truly laugh. Loopholes aren't something that are abused by the rich, poor, middle class, etc -- they're created and the IRS knows about them and they're fine with how the law is interpreted as of right now. If you ever see someone going about the tax code in a way that the IRS doesn't agree with, or doesn't feel is proper, they're going to start litigation against them and the law will decide what is the correct interpretation.

So yeah, that's my little rant about taxes.

If this would be true, I think that every society around the globe would be much better than what it is now. This would be like a dream, wherein the wealthy are giving and sharing to the community from what they have and doesn't become angry about it but, instead it is their glory and achievement. This would possibly solve the hunger and would help a lot of family. But, I don't exclude the rich people these days that are donating to charities and foundation, leaving out their selfishness and truly help others, I just hope their would be more people like them.

In addition, relating to crypto currency, there are topics like it here that says " the new age of charities and donations are through crypto currency wherein it is highly possible these days as the world changes overtime for the betterment of the society and the digitalization of these kind of transactions.

Well it could be effective before, but in the modern era, it will be very different. And I don't think that those rich people are going to do that today. Yes there are loopholes in the current tax system around the world, and the rich and taking advantage of it, to the point of not paying taxes. I think it still boils down to the government implementation and how hard they going to work to run after those not paying their taxes.

Taxes were collected way differently 200 years then now. Also sources where they come from. It will be same in the future. Governments will tax whatever they can control and tax easily. I really dont understand people that are saying that governments will never adopt cryptocurrencies, because it will make them problems with collecting taxes. They will solve that easily.

I never heard of it, but my guess is it's a voluntaryism utopia. Or if it's real, then it must involve some God/belief. I think the old Jewish and Arab communities have tithe or zakat. These kinds of donations could be considered as tax.

I think that the main thing is not how many taxes you pay to the state, but how many useful things you have done. Your useful deeds - this is a contribution to the wealth of your country. Therefore, large taxes must be paid by those who did useless things (for example, speculating in finances), and not those who simply earn a lot. For example, there are people who really do useful things for society as a whole and at the same time their company makes a lot of money.

Well, we all know that the purpose of taxation is not just for the people development but for a lot of other things too like supporting the other powers of the state. It is true though that there are these politicians that take advantage but there are also these tax payers that do that too. Since most tax payers do the calculation of the tax they will be paying, isn't it favorable for them?

I bet you won't pay taxes once you made more money (I am not directly saying you by the way) because governments asking people to pay taxes at insane rate so why anyone should give their hard earned money to someone for doing nothing that is why rich people avoid taxes legally and illegally and its possible for them to do because they are making money from business not from salaries.

So what can be done to encourage everyone to pay their taxes is to reduce the tax rate to the practical level and use the collected tax amount to the people development not to your personal development.

The tax system you are describing never existed in any civilization in the entire human history.I guess the author of the Instagram post was describing some sort of utopian society,where the rich people are generous and want to give more to the community.The tax system described in the post is everything else but effective.In every country in the human history,most of the tax revenue are gathered from the middle class and the working class.The rich people could avoid tax payments,because they can corrupt politicians and clerks,or they could simply move to another country.

I guess roads could just be concessioned to people who can maintain them, build new ones, etc. The road will still be owned by the community.   Question is, how do you make maintaining & repairing of a road profitable to the people you hand it over to without over burdening the community while trying to make it profitable? One of the ways to do this is probably to concession some part of the lands around the road to them... so that they can make good use of lands and earn extra profit from them.

I honestly will be glad to pay more if I have lots of extra money. But it's OK to get everyone to pay their taxes. It's probably not OK to force taxes on people who don't deserve to be taxed.. . like people who don't use things that a society places tax on. I am not sure if it's OK to tax someone who doesn't depend on a society to survive. He/she can choose to donate to the society, and such donations should be rewarded in some ways... maybe with some kind of ratings.

In the current system this might be problematic as it essentially rewards big spenders and big blowouts of money...

The people buying the roads may not have been so thrilled with the concept either as they probably only did internal servers from within the government. Atm rich people are pretty well known for their work so I doubt it'd do much for them other than be a burden. Also the richest person probably just found ways to try to hide their wealth too or give a small amount to the second richest to stick them with the liability.

I read this post on Instagram , was more of a fact page , they talked about the tax system in the old periods .
One such country astounded me , the system was simple yet effective.
So at the end of the month or the year , only the richest people were supposed to pay taxes and it was considered a big honor , then the highest tax payer was awarded in a way where he was supposed to do something good for the community , like Making road or something .
Firstly I do not take credit for the post but I do think ,this system was rather effective , how did it come to this.
People actually thought of it as a rewarding system instead of escaping from it .
Do you think it was fair ?
Do you think the government needs to look back and search for alternatives , for the loop holes ? Taking some inspiration from the past.

(Unfortunately I wasn't able to find the specific site giving information about it please post the link below if you are lucky enough to find it )